The Pope to exclude gay priests

[ELVIS]

23/09/2005


The Roman Catholic Church is preparing to bar homosexuals from becoming priests even if they are celibate in what could prove to be a defining act of Benedict XVI's papacy.

An "instruction" spelling out the policy has been drafted by the Congregation for Catholic Education and Seminaries.


Pope Benedict XVI considers homosexuality 'disordered'
Vatican officials say it is expected to be published within weeks. The long-awaited policy review was initiated three years ago by the late Pope John Paul II, who died in April.

It has been fought over bitterly among the Catholic hierarchy amid fears that it will trigger a witch hunt against gay clergy and increase the current shortage of candidates to the priesthood.

But conservatives say it is needed to redress the balance after a period of liberalisation in theological colleges, particularly in America.

The news of the impending publication was leaked to the American press in what some Vatican insiders believe could be a ploy to test the level of feeling about the issue among Catholics in America.

Gay Catholic groups in the US fear that the document could make homosexuals a scapegoat for the child abuse scandals that hit the Catholic Church in America in 2002.

More than 80 per cent of the 11,000 alleged victims of abuse by Catholic priests in the US were young males.

Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger headed the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican body charged with looking into the abuse claims, is said to have been horrified by many of the cases.

He has made clearing up the image of the Church one of the priorities of his papacy.

He has also consistently taken a hard line on homosexuality, condemning it as "intrinsically disordered".

While the exact wording of the instruction is not known, sources believe that it will indicate that candidates for the priesthood who identify themselves as homosexual should be barred, even if they are sexually abstinent, because their condition could detract from their ministry.

Many Vatican officials are determined to suppress what they see as a growing gay sub-culture in the priesthood.

Liberals fear, however, that a crackdown will drive the issue underground and set the Church back by decades.

The publication of the document will coincide with an evaluation that starts this month by Church investigators into America's 229 seminaries.

The investigators will, among other things, be looking for "evidence of homosexuality" and whether seminarians are being properly prepared for celibacy.

[FORD]

I thought you considered Catholicism a "false religion", Elvis?

So why would you applaud them for being homophobes if God doesn't recognize them anyway?

[FORD]

BTW, Ratzinger is one seriously fucked up backwards individual.

John Paul was hardly a progressive, but at least he was willing to see the reality that sexual orientation is not a matter of choice or a "disorder"

[ELVIS]

I don't consider it totally false anymore, I'm not sure If I ever said that, maybe so...

I'm kinda upset by some of the former Catholics in our church who bash the religion now that they feel they found Jesus...

I do consider alot of the Catholic doctrine to be man made nonsense, especially the works tacked onto salvation, but to each his own, who am I to say...

Having said that, maybe this Pope will steer the Catholic church closer to true Biblical Christianity...

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by FORD
BTW, Ratzinger is one seriously fucked up backwards individual.

John Paul was hardly a progressive, but at least he was willing to see the reality that sexual orientation is not a matter of choice or a "disorder"

EVERYTHING is a matter of choice!

[Cathedral]

Homosexuality is a sin, not Homophobia.
Just like abortion is murder, not a "Choice" that we have a right to make.

You can cloud the issue with pretty words all you want but you can't change the will of God based on social acceptance.

These things aren't pleasing to God, bro.

The Catholic Church is doing the right thing.
Now if they would just prosecute those who abused children to set an example of what future abusers will face if they choose to do the works of Satan and harm a child seeking a life of faith.

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
EVERYTHING is a matter of choice!

Bullshit. I can't choose to be black. I can't choose to be 5' 2". I can't choose to have curly hair, or to be left handed. Or to be gay.

Because none of the above is in my genetic makeup. I wasn't born with any of the above, and the closest I could come to faking any of them is to perm my hair out and look like Sammy Hagar.

Which I don't think I'll be doing.

So if there is a 5'2" left handed gay black guy out there who wants to choose to be a right handed blonde heterosexual, I'd like to know how he plans to do so.

Some things simply are NOT choices.

[ELVIS]

Amen Cat!

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
Bullshit. I can't choose to be black. I can't choose to be 5' 2". I can't choose to have curly hair, or to be left handed. Or to be gay.

Because none of the above is in my genetic makeup. I wasn't born with any of the above, and the closest I could come to faking any of them is to perm my hair out and look like Sammy Hagar.

Which I don't think I'll be doing.

So if there is a 5'2" left handed gay black guy out there who wants to choose to be a right handed blonde heterosexual, I'd like to know how he plans to do so.

Some things simply are NOT choices.

Are you gay?
If not then how do you know that it isn't a choice?
Because that is what you were told by gay people?

I'm not gay, but i could be if i wanted to be but that isn't the choice i made for myself. Women are more fun and designed to connect with my body parts the way it was intended to be.

You don't have that with gay people.
It's like trying to plug a plug into a plug, but it doesn't work without a female connection...we call them outlets.

Men and Women fit together like a puzzle.
You don't have that with gay people.

A link of chain for instance.
The chain only works properly if one ring is fittied through the loop of another ring. otherwise there is no connection, the chain doesn't work.
You can butt the two ends together and weld it, but it will break under a load.
No, the only way a chain works is if you connect the links one through the other...it's natural for a male to require a female to be complete.

Um, you don't get that or anything like that with gay people.
The parts aren't compatitble at all.

But sure, go ahead and get under an engine hoisted by your welded chain and put your faith in it working.
Just remember, if you are wrong the result will be death and it's too late to turn back then.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Are you gay?
If not then how do you know that it isn't a choice?
Because that is what you were told by gay people?

No, it's what I observed in gay people, some of whom are in my own family. All of them attempted to live heterosexual lives. Some even were married (to someone of the opposite sex) for a while. But it doesn't change the reality that they are, in fact, gay.

You say you could "choose" to be gay. If that's so, prove it. Find some guy and see if you can be genuinely attracted to him. And then, if you can actually accomplish that, have sex with the guy.

Of course, I only say this because I know it won't happen. Because you could no more choose to be gay than Gary Cherone could choose to be straight.

I'm not gay, but i could be if i wanted to be but that isn't the choice i made for myself. Women are more fun and designed to connect with my body parts the way it was intended to be.

You don't have that with gay people.
It's like trying to plug a plug into a plug, but it doesn't work without a female connection...we call them outlets.

Men have two of the same three "outlets" that women do.

Men and Women fit together like a puzzle.
You don't have that with gay people.

They would say otherwise. These days there are gay relationships that last long or longer than most heterosexual marriages. Obviously they must "fit together" somehow.


A link of chain for instance.
The chain only works properly if one ring is fittied through the loop of another ring. otherwise there is no connection, the chain doesn't work.
You can butt the two ends together and weld it, but it will break under a load.
No, the only way a chain works is if you connect the links one through the other...it's natural for a male to require a female to be complete.

Um, you don't get that or anything like that with gay people.
The parts aren't compatitble at all.

But sure, go ahead and get under an engine hoisted by your welded chain and put your faith in it working.
Just remember, if you are wrong the result will be death and it's too late to turn back then.

That analogy doesn't work at all. If you're going to compare a chain to a relationship, than the strength of the relationship depends on the commitment of the individuals involved. A lifelong committment between two people doesn't depend on the genders of either party, it depends on what's in their hearts and their minds.

[Cathedral]

Damn, that was a pretty fast reply, lol.

But i am not questioning the ability of two gay people being able to love each other for a lifetime.
If that is what they "choose" for themselves then it could be a very successful relationship.

It is not natural for a man to lay with a man as he does with a woman.
If it were the natural order to be attracted to the same sex how would the population grow?
Gay people can't reproduce, so extinction of the species would have been the reality if everyone were gay.

It goes against nature and for people to think otherwise is saying God isn't perfect, and he most certainly is perfect.

How would a gay world be fruitful and multiply?
They wouldn't and we would be doomed to that single generation.

It isn't natural, and what are your qualifications to conclude that it is indeed genetic simply by observation?
Oh, and heterosexual relationships could last as long or longer if the people weren't so inclined to lean to their own understanding believing that they are in control of their destiny.
Their life is all they can control, beyond that our existance is determined by God.

I'm not convinced that it isn't a choice.

But i am convinced that we are only having this discussion because of Liberalism.

[Warham]

Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet."

That should be the final word for anyone who believes in scripture as the Word of God. New Testament too, for those who think the Old Testament is somehow 'outdated'.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ELVIS
...
I do consider alot of the Catholic doctrine to be man made nonsense, especially the works tacked onto salvation, but to each his own, who am I to say...

I consider most Christian doctrine to be man-made nonsense.

Having said that, maybe this Pope will steer the Catholic church closer to true Biblical Christianity...

A scary thought indeed considering what the Bible has to say...



[/B][/QUOTE]

[Nickdfresh]

I guess slavery is alright according to the Bible as well...

Murder and Slavery


The tribe of Benjamin, however, failed to drive out the Jebusites, who were living in Jerusalem. So to this day the Jebusites live in Jerusalem among the people of Benjamin. The descendants of Joseph attacked the town of Bethel, and the LORD was with them. They sent spies to Bethel (formerly known as Luz), who confronted a man coming out of the city. They said to him, "Show us a way into the city, and we will have mercy on you." So he showed them a way in, and they killed everyone in the city except for this man and his family. Later the man moved to the land of the Hittites, where he built a city. He named the city Luz, and it is known by that name to this day. The tribe of Manasseh failed to drive out the people living in Beth-shan, Taanach, Dor, Ibleam, Megiddo, and their surrounding villages, because the Canaanites were determined to stay in that region.



When the Israelites grew stronger, they forced the Canaanites to work as slaves, but they never did drive them out of the land. The tribe of Ephraim also failed to drive out the Canaanites living in Gezer, and so the Canaanites continued to live there among them. The tribe of Zebulun also failed to drive out the Canaanites living in Kitron and Nahalol, who continued to live among them. But they forced them to work as slaves. The tribe of Asher also failed to drive out the residents of Acco, Sidon, Ahlab, Aczib, Helbah, Aphik, and Rehob. In fact, because they did not drive them out, the Canaanites dominated the land where the people of Asher lived. The tribe of Naphtali also failed to drive out the residents of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath. Instead, the Canaanites dominated the land where they lived. Nevertheless, the people of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath were sometimes forced to work as slaves for the people of Naphtali. As for the tribe of Dan, the Amorites forced them into the hill country and would not let them come down into the plains. The Amorites were determined to stay in Mount Heres, Aijalon, and Shaalbim, but when the descendants of Joseph became stronger, they forced the Amorites to work as slaves. (Judges 1:21-35 NLT)

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Hey, you can even rape your slaves if you feed and clothe them.

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Cathedral

It goes against nature and for people to think otherwise is saying God isn't perfect, and he most certainly is perfect.

How would a gay world be fruitful and multiply?
They wouldn't and we would be doomed to that single generation.

so is infertility a choice? there are heterosexuals who are unable to have children. most did not choose this. whether it's by disease or a congenital defect. if we were all infertile (as some are) we would be doomed to just that single generation.

is this evidence that God isn't perfect?



knuckleboner's answer: no. God is perfect. man is not. God made a real world, not a perfect one. suffering, hardships, disease, deformities are all a part of this world.

is it so inconceivable that there is a mutated gene / chromosone that causes an attraction to the same sex?