Rep. ED MURTHA (D-PA) Calls For Withdrawl of US Troops

[Nickdfresh]

Senior Democrat calls for U.S. troops to leave Iraq
Rep. Murtha: 'U.S. and coalition troops have done all they can'
Thursday, November 17, 2005; Posted: 12:45 p.m. EST (17:45 GMT)

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/POLITICS/11/17/murtha.iraq/story.murtha.cnn.jpg
Senior Democrat Rep. John Murtha told the Bush administration "lashing out at critics doesn't help a bit."

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Warning that other global threats "cannot be ignored," Rep. John Murtha, D-Pennsylvania, a leading adviser on defense issues, called on Thursday for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq.

"U.S. and coalition troops have done all they can in Iraq," the senior lawmaker said. "It's time for a change in direction."

He said he believes all the forces could be redeployed over a six-month period.

Murtha, a former Marine Corps colonel and veteran of the Vietnam war, is the first senior lawmaker to call for an immediate withdrawal. Other critics of the war have asked President Bush to set up a timetable for withdrawal. (Watch Murtha's take on 'flawed policy wrapped in illusion' -- 8:11)

Murtha's call for a withdrawal may have a significant impact on the debate over the future of the Iraq war, as both Democrats and Republicans seek his advice on military and veterans' issues.

Murtha, who has served in the House for over three decades, is the senior Democrat and former chairman of the Defense Appropriations Committee and voted in favor of the Iraq war. Now, he said, the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq are "uniting the enemy against us."

"Our military has accomplished its mission and done its duty," he said. "Our military captured Saddam Hussein, captured or killed his closest associates, but the war continues to intensify."

He said the redeployment will give Iraqis the incentive to take control of their country.

The statement comes amid increased debate over the Iraq war and the intelligence leading up to the March 2003 invasion.

On Wednesday, Vice President Dick Cheney dismissed Democratic critics, calling allegations that the administration misled the country as "one of the most dishonest and reprehensible charges ever aired in this city." (Full Story)

Murtha took issue with the administration's counter-criticism, specifically President Bush's Veterans Day speech in which he said it is "deeply irresponsible to rewrite how that war began."

"I resent the fact that on Veterans Day, they criticized Democrats for criticizing them," Murtha said. "This is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion. The American public knows it, and lashing out at critics doesn't help a bit. You've got to change the policy. That's what's going to help the American people. You need to change direction."

Murtha -- who recently visited Iraq's Anbar province -- said it is Congress' responsibility to speak out for the "sons and daughters" on the battlefield, and relayed several emotional stories from soldiers recovering at Bethesda's Walter Reed Medical Center.

"I tell you, these young folks are under intense activity over there, I mean much more intense than Vietnam," he said. "You never know when it's going to happen."

Link (http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/17/murtha.iraq/index.html)

[Warham]

'Much' more intense than Vietnam?

Please.

[FORD]

Breaking (CNN), "Congressman Murtha is a respected veteran and politician who has a record of supporting a strong America,” said White House press secretary Scott McClellan. “So it is baffling that he is endorsing the policy positions of Michael Moore and the extreme liberal wing of the Democratic Party."

Scottie the Duck is quacking up :D

[Nickdfresh]

Former hawk turns against Iraq War
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Defense expert Murtha urges quick withdrawal
By LIZ SIDOTI
Associated Press
11/18/2005
Associated Press
"It's time to bring them home" from Iraq, says Rep. John P. Murtha, a decorated veteran.

"The eve of an historic democratic election in Iraq is not the time to surrender to the terrorists."
Scott McClellan, White House spokesman, on comments by Rep. John Murtha

WASHINGTON - One of Congress' most hawkish and influential Democrats called Thursday for an immediate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq, sparking bitter and personal salvos from both sides in a growing Capitol Hill uproar over President Bush's war policies.

"It's time to bring them home," said Rep. John P. Murtha, a decorated Vietnam War veteran, choking back tears during remarks to reporters. "Our military has accomplished its mission and done its duty."

The comments by the Pennsylvania lawmaker, who has spent three decades in the House, hold particular weight because he is close to many military commanders and has enormous credibility with his colleagues on defense issues. He voted for the war in 2002, and remains the ranking Democrat on the House Appropriations defense subcommittee.

"Our troops have become the primary target of the insurgency. They are united against U.S. forces, and we have become a catalyst for violence," he said. "The war in Iraq is not going as advertised. It is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion."

In a biting response, Republicans criticized Murtha's position as one of abandonment and surrender and accused Democrats of playing politics with the war and recklessly pushing a "cut-and-run" strategy.

"They want us to retreat. They want us to wave the white flag of surrender to the terrorists of the world," said House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert, R-Ill.

"It would be an absolute mistake and a real insult to the lives that have been lost," said Rep. David Dreier, R-Calif.

Underscoring the rising emotions of the war debate, Murtha uncharacteristically responded to Vice President Cheney's comments this week that Democrats were spouting "one of the most dishonest and reprehensible charges" about the Bush administration's use of intelligence before the war.

"I like guys who've never been there that criticize us who've been there," said Murtha, a former Marine. "I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war, and then don't like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done."

Referring to Bush, Murtha added, "I resent the fact, on Veterans Day, he criticized Democrats for criticizing them."

The White House fired back from Busan, South Korea, where Bush was meeting with Asian leaders.

"Congressman Murtha is a respected veteran and politician who has a record of supporting a strong America," said White House press secretary Scott McClellan. "So it is baffling that he is endorsing the policy positions of Michael Moore and the extreme liberal wing of the Democratic Party.

"The eve of an historic democratic election in Iraq is not the time to surrender to the terrorists," McClellan said. "After seeing his statement, we remain baffled - nowhere does he explain how retreating from Iraq makes America safer."

Murtha once worked closely with Cheney when the latter was defense secretary. During the Vietnam War, Bush served stateside in the National Guard, while Cheney's five deferments kept him out of the service entirely.

Murtha estimated that all U.S. troops could be pulled out within six months. He introduced a resolution Thursday that would require the president to call back the military, but it was unclear when, or if, either GOP-run chamber of Congress would vote on it.

With a Bronze Star and two Purple Hearts, Murtha retired from the Marine Corps Reserve as a colonel in 1990 after 37 years as a Marine. Elected to Congress in 1974, Murtha has become known as an authority on national security whose advice was sought out by Republican and Democratic administrations alike.

But Republicans said Murtha does not represent the views of U.S. troops or military leaders.


Ouch DICK! That's gotta' hurt....:P

Link (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20051118/1050733.asp)

[Cathedral]

He can call for it all he wants, The troops aren't going anywhere until the job is done, period.

Next Rediculous Thread , Please!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
He can call for it all he wants, The troops aren't going anywhere until the job is done, period.

Next Rediculous Thread , Please!

If only you could define what "job done" IS CAT...


No, we will leave IRAQ, but not the way BUSH thought in 03.'


BTW, our side is becoming infiltrated by IRANIAN style fundamentalists....


We may well be supporting the SUNNIs after all.

[jacksmar]

Nick let’s be honest for just a sec.

A 7-pound block of cyanide salt was discovered by U.S. troops in Baghdad.
The terrorists set up an IED to use as a munition containing the deadly chemical nerve agent, Sarin.

With all the pronouncements from the administration about when we were coming, did you expect to see U.S. troops standing over smoking vats full of nerve gas in an abandoned factory?

Is it possible that some of the stuff was moved and is now being brought back in?

Plants inspected as far back the early 1990s that were chemical weapons production facilities had been set up to look like as if they were producing pesticides, or in the case of a giant plant near Fallujah, chlorine, which is used to produce mustard gas.

At Taji which was an Iraqi weapons complex as large as the District of Columbia, U.S. troops discovered more pesticides stockpiled in containers.

We’re saddam’s guys just afraid of bugs? Is that what pissed saddam off all the time? Bugs?

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by jacksmar
Nick let’s be honest for just a sec.

A 7-pound block of cyanide salt was discovered by U.S. troops in Baghdad.
The terrorists set up an IED to use as a munition containing the deadly chemical nerve agent, Sarin.

With all the pronouncements from the administration about when we were coming, did you expect to see U.S. troops standing over smoking vats full of nerve gas in an abandoned factory?

Is it possible that some of the stuff was moved and is now being brought back in?

Plants inspected as far back the early 1990s that were chemical weapons production facilities had been set up to look like as if they were producing pesticides, or in the case of a giant plant near Fallujah, chlorine, which is used to produce mustard gas.

At Taji which was an Iraqi weapons complex as large as the District of Columbia, U.S. troops discovered more pesticides stockpiled in containers.

We’re saddam’s guys just afraid of bugs? Is that what pissed saddam off all the time? Bugs?

EXACTLY.

I saw a special on the tube where Saddam had enough pesticide factories to supply Terminix and Orkin for the next 1000 years.

It was also amazing how many chemicals are in common to exterminating bugs and humans and how the equipment and processes are basically the same.

:gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by jacksmar
Nick let’s be honest for just a sec.

A 7-pound block of cyanide salt was discovered by U.S. troops in Baghdad.
The terrorists set up an IED to use as a munition containing the deadly chemical nerve agent, Sarin.

With all the pronouncements from the administration about when we were coming, did you expect to see U.S. troops standing over smoking vats full of nerve gas in an abandoned factory?

Is it possible that some of the stuff was moved and is now being brought back in?

Plants inspected as far back the early 1990s that were chemical weapons production facilities had been set up to look like as if they were producing pesticides, or in the case of a giant plant near Fallujah, chlorine, which is used to produce mustard gas.

At Taji which was an Iraqi weapons complex as large as the District of Columbia, U.S. troops discovered more pesticides stockpiled in containers.

We’re saddam’s guys just afraid of bugs? Is that what pissed saddam off all the time? Bugs?

"Honest?" You're being ORWELLIAN. No. Don't you think by now the sagging BUSH ADMIN would have made some pronouncement regarding these "finds" of supposed chemical weapons by now if any of it were true? Intelligence agencies have repeatedly dismissed any of the above info as being true. It's just more anecdotal bullshit, conjecture, and bad information circulated as fact from people that can't let go of the facts: NOTHING HAS BEEN FOUND. The UN Inspectors were right! Anything of consequence was destroyed during inspections, airstrikes, or deteriorated during sanctions...

IRAQ was one of the biggest agricultural producers in the Middle East, of course these right-wing "keep the Sheepish base in-line" sites that you get this crap from repeatedly ignore that fact, maybe, just maybe, they were actually making agricultural products?

And YES! I did in fact expect US troops to find substantial amounts of NBC agents and shells around IRAQ. In fact, if the IRAQIS possessed them, they would have been used against coalition forces this time, they'd nothing to lose!

No, nobody is hiding shit for the insurgents or the terrorists. It's not in their interests...Why would they? Just to confound the BUSH Admin? That's pretty silly...

***This just in: War is peace.***

[DLR'sCock]

Considering Murtha has a strong relationship with many Gernerals in our armed forces, it could be regarded that he is speaking for our military leaders.

[Nickdfresh]

John Kerry Speaks...



Dear NickDfresh,

This is our moment of truth. You and I have to make it absolutely clear that we won't stand for Republican "Swift Boat" style attacks on Jack Murtha.

Yesterday, an extraordinary congressman, former Marine Drill Sergeant and decorated Vietnam veteran, spoke out on the war in Iraq. He didn't come to that moment lightly. He spoke his mind and spoke his heart out of love for his country and support for our troops. No sooner had the words left his lips than the vicious assault on his character and patriotism began.

Today, in a statement on the Senate floor, in interviews with the national media, and in this message to you, I am seeking out every opportunity to defend a brave American hero that the Republican attack machine has set their sights on.

I urge you to do the same. Whether you agree or disagree with Jack Murtha is irrelevant. These despicable attacks on Jack Murtha's patriotism and courage must be met with an enormous public outcry. Call your local talk radio show, write a letter to the editor, phone your members of Congress - join me in acting now to reject these "Swift Boat" style attacks on Jack Murtha.

It disgusts me that a bunch of guys who have never put on the uniform of their country have aimed their venom at a marine who served America heroically in Vietnam and has been serving heroically in Congress ever since. No matter what J.D. Hayworth says, there is no sterner stuff than the backbone and courage that defines Jack Murtha's character and conscience.

Dennis Hastert -- the Speaker of the House who never served -- accused Jack Murtha of being a coward. Well let me tell you, Jack Murtha wasn't a coward when he put himself in harm's way for his country in Vietnam and earned two purple hearts -- he was a patriot then, and he is a patriot today. Jack Murtha's courage in combat earned him a Bronze Star, and his voice should be heard, not silenced by those who still today cut and run from the truth.

Instead of letting his cronies run their mouths, the President for once should stop his allies from doing to Jack Murtha what he set them loose to do to John McCain in South Carolina and Max Cleland in Georgia.

The President should finally find the courage to debate the real issue instead of destroying anyone who speaks truth to power as they see it. It's time for Americans to stand up, fight back, and make it clear it's unacceptable to do this to any leader of any party anywhere in our country.

I urge you to join today in a massive public outcry that rejects the attempt to demonize and destroy anyone who dares to disagree with George W. Bush's aimless "stay for as long as it takes" policy on Iraq.

Please act now. Call and email your elected officials. Flood talk radio with calls rejecting these vicious smear tactics. Send a letter to the editor. Express your outrage about the tired old Rovian "Swift Boat" style attacks on Jack Murtha.

Sincerely,

John Kerry

[Cathedral]

Jean Schmidt just called Murtha a coward, lol....and it got pretty crazy for a minute.....This is what we are reduced to i reckon.

A vote on Iraq policy is due within the hour.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Jean Schmidt just called Murtha a coward, lol....and it got pretty crazy for a minute.....This is what we are reduced to i reckon.

A vote on Iraq policy is due within the hour.

Somebody should put that leathery bitch back in her Egyptian sarcophagus!

http://www.jeanschmidt.com/images/CongressWomanSchmidt.jpghttp://www.rense.com/1.cinehorror/mummy.gif
http://www.jeanschmidt.com/images/Congresswoman-Schmidt-Swear.jpg

[Cathedral]

C-Span has been worth its weight in gold tonight, lol.
I don't like that bitch at all, but she said what needed to be said because cutting and running is not an option and that's what he said we need to do.

That is exactly what the Insurgents are banking on too......Fuck That!

[FORD]

Originally posted by Cathedral
C-Span has been worth its weight in gold tonight, lol.
I don't like that bitch at all, but she said what needed to be said because cutting and running is not an option and that's what he said we need to do.

That is exactly what the Insurgents are banking on too......Fuck That!

Not one single Democrat has said "cut and run"

And for that fucking dried up cunt to call a marine who served in two wars a "coward" goes far beyond partisanship.

Jean SHIT already crapped all over the military service of her opponent in the recent election.

Why do Neocon shitbags hate America?

[FORD]

I want to tell you about John Murtha.

He's a Democratic Congressman from Pennsylvania. He's also a combat veteran and retired Marine Corps colonel.

Murtha spent 37 years in Marine Corps, earned the Bronze Star, two purple hearts, the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry, and the Navy Distinguished Service Medal. And for the last thirty years he's been one of the most respected voices in Congress on military issues -- universally respected by Democrats, Republicans and military brass alike.

Until now.

Republicans have disgraced themselves by viciously attacking John Murtha with such disrespect that not only veterans, but every decent American should be angry.

What did Murtha, a decorated combat veteran, do to draw fire from a White House led by a president and vice president who evaded service in Vietnam? He questioned their management of the war in Iraq. Here's part of what he had to say:

The war in Iraq is not going as advertised. It is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion. The American public is way ahead of us. The United States and coalition troops have done all they can in Iraq, but it is time for a change in direction. Our military is suffering. The future of our country is at risk. We cannot continue on the present course. It is evident that continued military action is not in the best interests of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf Region. ...

For two and a half years, I have been concerned about the U.S. policy and the plan in Iraq. I have addressed my concerns with the Administration and the Pentagon and have spoken out in public about my concerns. The main reason for going to war has been discredited. ...

I have been visiting our wounded troops at Bethesda and Walter Reed hospitals almost every week since the beginning of the War. And what demoralizes them is going to war with not enough troops and equipment to make the transition to peace; the devastation caused by IEDs; being deployed to Iraq when their homes have been ravaged by hurricanes; being on their second or third deployment and leaving their families behind without a network of support.

Shameless Republicans immediately went on the attack. Dick Cheney, who has said that he had "other priorities" and collected 5 deferments while people like Murtha served in Vietnam, called Murtha's comments "irresponsible" and regretted that "the president and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory, or their backbone." The White House spokesman, who has also never worn the uniform, pronounced himself "baffled" that Murtha, who volunteered for two wars, wanted to "surrender to the terrorists". A Republican Congressman said Murtha and others "basically are giving aid and comfort to the enemy".

Shame on them. Every one of us -- right now -- needs to let Jack Murtha know that we respect his service, respect his leadership, and respect his right to speak the truth. This man has spent his life serving us. The very least each one of us can do is let him know that no matter what dishonorable smear campaign Republicans wage we will be there with him.

Send Congressman Murtha a note telling him that you will not be silent while he is attacked:

http://www.democrats.org/shameonthem

I will deliver your message to him personally, along with my own thanks for his service to our country and his continuing courage in the face of threats.

Lies and manipulation characterized the Republican case for war, and lies and manipulation have been the primary weapon against anyone who questions their failed leadership.

First it was Senator Max Cleland, who left limbs in Vietnam, being savagely attacked in 2002. Then John Kerry, who received three purple hearts, being smeared in 2004. The history of this war has shown that Republicans value political posturing more than the service of America's veterans.

Republicans don't want a serious debate about Iraq because they know the American people are simply not with them. They cannot respond to the substance of Murtha's criticism -- or any criticism -- because they are wrong.

Jack Murtha is already fighting back. When told of Cheney's comments he reminded people where Cheney was while he was in Vietnam: "I like guys who got five deferments and have never been there and send people to war, and then don't like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done."

But Jack can't beat this back alone. Show him that Americans know that Republicans should be ashamed of themselves:

http://www.democrats.org/shameonthem

Enough is enough -- we cannot allow another veteran to be smeared by George Bush's cronies.

Thank you for taking a stand.

Governor Howard Dean, M.D.

[Warham]

He said bring them all home. That's cutting and running. If he would have said bring home 20,000 by December, like Kerry had said, he wouldn't be getting assaulted like this.

[DLR'sCock]

Ok, I will repeat, when you hear Murtha stating that a planned exit strategy is needed for Iraq, then you are most likely hearing the voices of the top brass in the military giving their professional and expert advice. Murtha is a HAWK, who was for the invasion, and put serious indepth thought into his decision. The guy is being honest and it's very apparent that this has nothingto do with politics, it has to do with reality. Iraq is a failure of the policy of the Bush Administration.

How many more US soliders need to die?
How many more US soliders need to lose an arm or leg?
How many more Iraqis need to die?
How many more Iraqis need to lose an arm or leg?

The Iraqis don't want us in their country, and we should never have invaded in the first place.

If you feel we should stay, go volunteer and go over there and take the chance with your life, unitl the US finally pulls out, you still have the chance.

I know people who are there and have been there, and they all say the same thing, it is totally fucking chaos over there.

[Nickdfresh]

From: TruthOut.org (http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/38/12945)

"Lyndon Johnson ignored the unsolicited advice of Senator George Aiken (Republican) of Vermont - to declare victory in Vietnam in 1966. The war continued for nearly a decade. Many high-level government figures believe that US troops will be in Iraq for a minimum of 5 more years, and perhaps 10.

Food for thought...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
C-Span has been worth its weight in gold tonight, lol.
I don't like that bitch at all, but she said what needed to be said because cutting and running is not an option and that's what he said we need to do.

That is exactly what the Insurgents are banking on too......Fuck That!

"Cut and Run?" No. How about, "talk and walk?"

Early in the Iraq War, the US Military command in Iraq wanted to establish communication links of "parley" with the Iraqi Sunni Insurgents in order to get a read on their objectives and goals. This also would have served to establish communications for future negotiations and even the possibility of cease-fires with the insurgents.

They were overruled by the politicized State Department and the "Viceroy" Paul BREMER, who were busy fucking up the country by pursuing a policy of total "De-Baathification" and the tear-down of the old order without ever really establishing a "new" order. This is why we are pretty much fucked now, fighting a war of attrition, siding with torturing, Islamic Fundamentalist bastards that are NO BETTER THAN THE ONES WE ARE FIGHTING!
http://justinsomnia.org/images/moqtada_al-sadr_has_a_posse.png
Our "friend," Muqtada al-Sadr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqtada_al-Sadr)

The SHIITES, our "allies," are now heavily infiltrated by The IRANIAN gov't, and they are little better than the foreign fighters on the side of the Iraqi SUNNIS! And they're shooting at us as well now!

OPEN NEGOTIATIONS NOW ON POWER SHARING!

Like what has been done in EL SALVADOR, THE SUDAN, ANGOLA, & BOSNIA!

STIPULATE THAT THE SUNNI INSURGENTS "LIQUIDATE" "AL QAIDA of IRAQ," and return foreign fighters home as part of any settlement. Then gradually draw down US Forces...

Then, there will be no one for Iraqi nationalists to unite against, and they can hash out their own problems, without any "foreigners" in their midst...

[Nickdfresh]

There is an alternative to spending $billion$ and thousands of American lives while the CHINESE slowly overtake us in the world...

[Nickdfresh]

November 19, 2005

Lawmakers launch personal attacks as Republicans force a vote on whether to pull out of Iraq immediately. The measure is rejected.

By Maura Reynolds, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON — House Republicans forced a vote Friday over a proposal to begin the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, sparking a raw and raucous debate during which lawmakers hurled insults and jeered each other.

The GOP-sponsored proposal, intended to fail and aimed at embarrassing war critics, was overwhelmingly defeated shortly before midnight, 403 to 3.

But the debate vividly exposed the widening rifts between Democrats and Republicans over the course of the war — a disagreement that increasingly has dominated congressional proceedings.

The resolution grew out of a proposal made Thursday by Rep. John P. Murtha of Pennsylvania — a Democrat, a decorated Marine Corps veteran of the wars in Korea and Vietnam, and one of the House's most respected military hawks — that the United States start pulling out of Iraq.

Republicans responded Friday by introducing a simplified version of his plan — a move Democrats denounced as a political stunt designed to force the hand of Murtha and his fellow Democrats.

But Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-El Cajon), who sponsored the resolution, responded: "This is a legitimate question."

Explaining his demand for a vote, Hunter said the escalating debate over the war had left the impression around the world "that Congress is withdrawing support of the mission in Iraq."

During the debate, House members frequently spoke out of turn. The presiding officer repeatedly called for order.

At one point, Rep. Harold E. Ford Jr. of Tennessee and other Democrats surged toward the Republican side of the chamber, after Rep. Jean Schmidt, an Ohio Republican, suggested that Murtha — the senior Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee's defense subcommittee and the recipient of two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star — was a coward.

Schmidt, a former state legislator who took office after a special election in August in which the war became the prominent issue, said a Marine colonel in Ohio had asked her to "send Congress a message: Stay the course."

"He also asked me," she said, "to send Congressman Murtha a message: Cowards cut and run. Marines never do."

Democrats erupted in boos and shouts. "You guys are pathetic! Pathetic!" yelled Rep. Martin T. Meehan (D-Mass.).

"Take her words down," other Democrats cried, using the parliamentary language to demand that she retract what they considered a deep insult. "Take them down."

Schmidt stood up after several minutes of frantic negotiation and retracted her remarks.

Murtha's resolution Thursday called for a rapid "reaction force" to remain in the region and for diplomacy to be accelerated to achieve stability in Iraq. He also said the withdrawal should begin only when it could be accomplished safely.

The measure Hunter introduced said simply that "the sense of the House" was that troop deployment in Iraq should be "terminated immediately."

Murtha was among the vast majority of Democrats joining Republicans in voting against the resolution.

"This resolution is not what I envisioned, not what I introduced," he said.

But, defending his goal, he added: "This war cannot be won militarily. It has to be won politically. We ought to give Iraq back to the Iraqis."

The members who voted for the resolution were Jose E. Serrano (D-N.Y.), Cynthia A. McKinney (D-Ga.) and Robert Wexler (D-Fla.).

Six members voted "present": Major R. Owens (D-N.Y.), William Lacy Clay (D-Mo.), Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.), Maurice D. Hinchey (D-N.Y.), Michael E. Capuano (D-Mass.) and Jim McDermott (D-Wash.).

White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, in South Korea where President Bush was attending a Pacific Rim trade meeting, said in a statement that Congress had "in strong, bipartisan fashion rejected the call to cut and run."

Linking the war in Iraq with the fight against terrorism, he continued: "The best strategy to keep America safe is to continue taking the fight to the terrorists, not to retreat in the face of the despicable attacks of a determined enemy."

Earlier in the day, Bush quoted a top U.S. commander in Iraq, saying that setting a deadline for troop withdrawal would be "a recipe for disaster."

Throughout the House debate, Democrats lavished praise on Murtha and his attack on the administration's Iraq policies.

"The American people have rallied to Jack Murtha's message of truth," said Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-San Francisco). Turning to the Republican side of the chamber, she continued: "But you can't handle the truth. Why are the Republicans so afraid of the facts?"

In recognition of Murtha's credentials as a friend of the military, some Republicans made a point of praising him Friday.

"This debate has been a report card on Jack Murtha, and I give him an A-plus as a truly great American," said Rep. Henry J. Hyde (R-Ill.).

Members from both parties stood to applaud Murtha.

Then, referring to Murtha's call for troop withdrawal, Hyde continued: "But among his great qualities, infallibility is not one."

Rep. David R. Obey (D-Wis.) called the resolution "a cheap stunt that mocks the sacrifice of every man and woman serving in Iraq."

"How dare you? How dare you?" he shouted. "[This] is nothing except an effort to drive a stake through the heart of the Murtha resolution without any effort to get to the heart of the truth of the facts about Iraq."

Several Republicans referred to Vietnam in arguing against setting deadlines for withdrawing from Iraq.

"In case people have forgotten, this is the same thing that happened in Vietnam," warned Rep. Sam Johnson (R-Texas), a Vietnam veteran.

"Peaceniks and people in Congress and America started saying bad things about what was going on in Vietnam and it did a terrible thing to troop morale. I just pray that our troops and their families can block this noise out."

Also Friday, the Bush administration continued its efforts to respond more forcefully to critics, with the Pentagon arranging a teleconference with senior military commanders who challenged Murtha's assessment that U.S. troops had achieved all they could in Iraq.

"I think we have to finish the job that we began here," said Army Col. James Brown of the Texas National Guard, who commands a brigade in southwestern Iraq. "It's important for the security of this nation, it's important for the security of this region, and certainly it's important in the vital interest of the United States of America."

Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-usiraq19nov19,0,3400249,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines) staff writers Mark Mazzetti in Washington and Peter Wallsten in Pusan, South Korea, contributed to this report.

[Sarge's Little Helper]

Fuck Jean Schmidt in the ass with my giant cyber-cock! :mad:

[Big Train]

I'm a republican and what I saw and read this morning does not please me at all. For several reasons.

1. The argument DOES have merit and should be DISCUSSED by elected officials. That is what I send them to do.

2. The shut down by vote (the Haq a Shaq of the government) again defeats the purpose of the government. If voices can't be heard, or stymied by procedure, there is an issue.

3. Most offensive of all, is that I read they attached a raise for Congress of like 3,100 bucks a year (which guaranteed across party lines this thing gets shut down). No representation and in essence MORE taxation?

Again, those of you who think you "Waste your Vote" by voting for a third party, this is what you get, so no bitching from you.

Fuck parties altogether. I believe IDEAS should be voted on, on their own merit, by themselves, up or down. Fuck all this shit.

[Cathedral]

Amen to that, BT.
I've been on the move today and haven't read or seen any news so i don't know what you refer to from this morning.

But very nice post, spoken like a true old school conservative.

[DrMaddVibe]

In a lopsided 403 to 3 vote, Democrats showed they were unwilling to back Murtha's pullout proposal - even though many voiced support of his anti-war announcement earlier this week.

[FORD]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
In a lopsided 403 to 3 vote, Democrats showed they were unwilling to back Murtha's pullout proposal - even though many voiced support of his anti-war announcement earlier this week.

Murtha didn't write that resolution, Duncan Hunter (R) did. And it was a cheap stunt.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by FORD
Murtha didn't write that resolution, Duncan Hunter (R) did. And it was a cheap stunt.

He altered it quite a bit as well, taking out the six-month deadline...

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
Murtha didn't write that resolution, Duncan Hunter (R) did. And it was a cheap stunt.

Yep, it was pretty cheap.
Hey Ford, did you happen to catch any of the fireworks on C-Span last night?
It was not Washington's proudest moment ever that's for sure.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
He altered it quite a bit as well, taking out the six-month deadline...

We may agree something here again, Nicky-poo, lol.

Some seem to think that a deadline would be a recipe for destruction, however i do not agree.
It may be just what the Iraqi's need to step up their actions to take their new found democracy and run with it.
I've said it before and i'll say it again, they need a kick in the pants to start acting like they want to be free.

Going to the polls was only the beginning, but i get the impression they think it's all they had to do.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
There is an alternative to spending $billion$ and thousands of American lives while the CHINESE slowly overtake us in the world...

Why are you so paranoid about China?

People were paranoid about Russia thirty to forty years ago too. How'd that turn out?

We are STILL and will be superior to China a hundred years from now, long after we are both six feet under.

If you are worried about a million Chinese troops coming over here by boat to invade America, I don't believe it'll ever come to that, because we have an answer to such nonsense. It's called a nuke, and we would use it if they tried anything of the sort.

[Big Train]

To my fellow conservatives, please explain the pay raise. Please, I need to know...

[FORD]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Yep, it was pretty cheap.
Hey Ford, did you happen to catch any of the fireworks on C-Span last night?
It was not Washington's proudest moment ever that's for sure.

No, but I heard clips of it on the radio. And Jean SHIT especially pissed me off.

I was pleasantly surprised to hear that Harold Ford (no relation) actually stood up for what is right for once. That doesn't happen very often.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
No, but I heard clips of it on the radio. And Jean SHIT especially pissed me off.

I was pleasantly surprised to hear that Harold Ford (no relation) actually stood up for what is right for once. That doesn't happen very often.

Awe man, you missed a good show for sure.
I was waiting for it to get violent but thankfully it didn't drop to that level.
The future looks pretty bleak to me, Iraq or no Iraq, our political system is definately in the shitter.

[DLR'sCock]

Check out Murtha on Meet The Press.