Bush Flip-Flops On Torture

[LoungeMachine]

White House reaches deal on anti-torture measure
Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:55 PM ET
By Adam Entous and Vicki Allen
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Under bipartisan pressure after detainee abuse scandals, President George W. Bush reached agreement on Thursday with Sen. John McCain on legislation banning inhumane treatment of prisoners in U.S. custody.

With McCain and Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John Warner at his side, Bush said the agreement would help "make it clear to the world that this government does not torture and that we adhere to the international convention of torture, whether it be here at home or abroad."

The administration has been hammered by scandal over the sexual and physical abuse of detainees by U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, harsh interrogations at U.S. facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and reports that the CIA has run secret prisons abroad to hold terrorism suspects.

McCain's proposal would ban cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of prisoners and set standards for interrogations.

But in a rare break with the White House, California Republican Duncan Hunter, chairman of the House of Representatives Armed Services Committee, will oppose the measure, Hunter's spokesman said.

That could imperil the amendment on the defense policy bill that Hunter oversees. But it could pass as part of a defense spending bill that Congress is rushing to complete before it adjourns for the year.

The White House had sought protections from prosecution for interrogators accused of violating the rule, but McCain rejected that, saying it would undermine his amendment.

DEFEND ACTIONS

The White House finally accepted language, which was similar to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, to allow civilian interrogators accused of violating the provision to defend themselves based on whether a reasonable person could have found they were following a lawful order about the treatment of prisoners.

Warner, a Virginia Republican who was to meet again with Hunter, said he was "absolutely confident ... that this McCain legislation which is landmark legislation, very much needed for our nation, will become finalized with the president's signature in one form or another in one bill."

The Senate backed McCain's amendment 90-9, and the House voted on Wednesday 308-122 in support of it. Continued ...

[LoungeMachine]

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"Now we can move forward and make sure that the whole world knows, as the president has stated many times, we do not practice cruel, inhumane treatment or torture," McCain said.

Rep. Jane Harman of California, top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, issued a statement saying: "Today's agreement by the White House and congressional leaders means that interrogators will be given clear, unambiguous rules to follow ... The fog of law is lifting. America's black eye is finally healing."

The standoff with the White House over the McCain amendment has stalled both the bill that funds the Pentagon and another that authorizes defense policies and programs.

[Guitar Shark]

I hope there is a loophole somewhere that will allow us to torture Bush when his term ends...

[Warham]

You guys will have to remind me when Bush said we should put terrorists on racks, put bamboo shoots under their fingernails, and burn them with cigarettes.

I don't remember the speech where he praised the use of those techniques.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
You guys will have to remind me when Bush said we should put terrorists on racks, put bamboo shoots under their fingernails, and burn them with cigarettes.

I don't remember the speech where he praised the use of those techniques.

Posted 11/9/2005 10:33 PM


Fight over abuse pits Bush against party allies


By Kathy Kiely and John Diamond, USA TODAY


WASHINGTON — As the House prepares to take up a proposed ban on abusive treatment of terrorism suspects, the Republican-led Congress appears headed toward a collision with President Bush. (Related: Inside the detainee abuse issue)

Sen. John McCain has authored an amendment that would ban "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment" of any person in U.S. custody.
Hadi Mizban, AP

It's a fight over treatment of prisoners by U.S. interrogators that pits Bush against usual allies, such as Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, and prominent veterans, such as Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.

Bush is threatening to veto two major defense bills because they include an amendment to ban abusive treatment of detainees that the Senate has attached to both measures. Bush has never vetoed a bill, but it's unclear if that prospect will be enough to persuade the House of Representatives to excise the ban. The Senate plans to send one of the defense bills to the House today. The other is pending before congressional negotiators.

Acting House Majority Leader Roy Blunt, R-Mo., says Bush and Vice President Cheney have lobbied House Republicans to oppose the amendment, but Blunt stopped short of saying he would urge members to vote no. "It's hard to imagine it wouldn't get a lot of votes," he said. In the Senate, the torture ban was approved 90-9.

The amendment would ban "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment" of any person in U.S. custody, regardless of location or nationality. It was authored by McCain, who was a prisoner of war in Vietnam.

In the House, the ban is backed by another Vietnam combat veteran, Rep. John Murtha. The conservative Pennsylvania Democrat wrote in a letter to House colleagues that revelations about abuses of prisoners in U.S. custody are "degrading our society and its political and legal systems." He says he has the votes — including some Republicans — to win House approval of McCain's amendment.

Bush and Cheney oppose the measure because they say it would limit interrogators' ability to get information from terrorism suspects. Congress shouldn't interfere with "what we are trying to do to detain and interrogate the worst of the worst," says Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Pat Roberts, R-Kan., a supporter of the administration's position.

Bush insists the U.S. government does not engage in torture. But the McCain amendment is coming before Congress as questions about U.S. policy toward prisoners are growing. Reports by the group Human Rights Watch and The Washington Post that the CIA is holding detainees at secret detention centers have heightened concerns. The CIA has refused to comment on whether the sites exist.

"They lost my trust when they did that," says Murtha, who sits on the panel that determines funding for the Pentagon and CIA. "By not telling us, they lied."

Murtha says that to win over public opinion in Iraq, the United States must dispel any notion it is engaging in torture. In his letter to House colleagues, he says the absence of a clear policy against torture "endangers U.S. servicemembers who might be captured."

McCain, who was tortured by his North Vietnamese captors, argues that abuse does not elicit useful information because "under torture, a detainee will tell his interrogator anything to make the pain stop."

He rejects a compromise proposed by Cheney to excuse the CIA from his proposed ban. "There can be no exemptions," he said.

McCain's strategy is to attach the amendment to bills that will be hard for his colleagues or Bush to reject. He tacked it onto a Pentagon spending bill that contains all military funding, including for the war in Iraq. He also attached it to a bill that authorizes Pentagon programs for next year. "We will win sooner or later," he said. "I will not quit."

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine


Bush is threatening to veto two major defense bills because they include an amendment to ban abusive treatment of detainees that the Senate has attached to both measures.

Well, Warham???????

[Warham]

I want to know the details of why he's threatening to veto them. On the appearance, anything can look deceiving. They might have put something in there that he doesn't like.

[Hardrock69]

Oh, so you do not listen to the radio, watch TV, or read the internet or newspapers?


No he may not have specifically endorsed those techniques, but dammit you know damn well the White House has been opposed to a bill like this for some time.

Dickless Cheney and his organ grinder monkey Chimpy have wanted the CIA to be exempt from rules prohibiting torture.

You know that.

[LoungeMachine]

Yes, Warham knows that.

He's not dumb, just stubborn.


Just admit Bush FLIP-FLOPPED

He was AGAINST the McCain ban......

Now He's FOR the McCain ban......


According to the Republican Handbook, THAT's a FLIP-FLOP

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
I want to know the details of why he's threatening to veto them. On the appearance, anything can look deceiving. They might have put something in there that he doesn't like.

I give up.

[Wayne L.]

McCain is an overrated media darling but he has great toes.

[Cathedral]

Bush is flipping on a few things at the moment, like a hooked fish.

He's flipped on Iraq
He's flipped on Immigration
He's become inactive addressing abortion
He's become inactive addressing gay marriage
He's become inactive addressing Social Security

(become inactive = flipped, changed direction, persuit ceased, took no further action)

The number of Ammendments this Administration has attempted to pass, and many we should all be glad failed, is completely alarming, and for good reason. The Constitution should NOT be fucked with for individual reasons because it was not designed that way and the alterations we've already made have bred nothing but trouble with a huge dose of legal wranglings by the best in the biz.

F.U.B.A.R., that's the word for the day, every day, until further notice.

[Warham]

Actually, I'm glad Bush is signing this bill.