It's Official: Nagin Is A Fucking Idiot

[blueturk]

Maybe this is a dupe. I can't believe nobody posted this yet.

New Orleans mayor sorry for 'chocolate' remark
Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:43 PM ET

By Ellen Wulfhorst

NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - The mayor of New Orleans apologized on Tuesday for saying the hurricane-ravaged city would be rebuilt as a "chocolate" city and for blaming the storm on the wrath of God over U.S. involvement in Iraq.

The "chocolate" remark, which Mayor Ray Nagin made in a speech on Monday, struck a nerve, as racial tensions and concerns loom over proposed plans to rebuild New Orleans from Hurricane Katrina.

Several of the hardest-hit neighborhoods were mostly black, and many residents have expressed fears that those areas will not be rebuilt while those with more white residents may be. Before the August 29 storm, New Orleans was about 70 percent black.

"If I offended anyone, I sincerely apologize," the mayor, who is black, said on Tuesday. "I need to be more sensitive and more aware of what I'm saying.

"I want everybody to be welcome in New Orleans -- black, white, Hispanic, Asian -- because that's the kind of city that we deserve going forward," he said. "I was trying to, and didn't do it very well, to deal with this whole notion, the undercurrent what's being talked about, and what's being talked about is who is going to come back to New Orleans at the end of the day."

In his speech on Monday, marking the Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. holiday, Nagin said: "This city will be a majority African-American city. It's the way God wants it to be. .... This city will be chocolate at the end of the day."

Other black leaders in New Orleans said they were taken aback by Nagin's remarks.

"Everybody's jaws are dropping right now," City Councilman Oliver Thomas told The Times-Picayune newspaper. "Even if you believe some of that crazy stuff, that is not the type of image we need to present to the nation."

In his speech, Nagin also said a wrathful God sent the hurricanes.

"Surely God is mad at America," he said. "Surely he's not approving of us being in Iraq under false pretense. But surely he's upset at black America also. We're not taking care of ourselves."

In his apology, Nagin said: "I said some things that were totally inappropriate. I shouldn't have made any references to God as it relates to this city. In the moment I got caught up, and it shouldn't have happened."

Nagin also said he has made the "chocolate" reference several times before, including before Congress.



http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2006-01-18T014319Z_01_N17385026_RTRUKOC_0_US-HURRICANES-MAYOR.xml

[frets5150]

Yeah and if he were WHITE there would be a Race Riot you can bet on that

[FORD]

I think Pat Robertson must have spiked his "hot chocolate"

[flatbroke]

Yeah and if he were WHITE there would be a Race Riot you can bet on that

You mean if he were vanilla don't you ?

[freudvitamin]

In his speech on Monday, marking the Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. holiday, Nagin said: "This city will be a majority African-American city. It's the way God wants it to be. .... This city will be chocolate at the end of the day."


Is this a joke?
People who proclaim what God wants disturb me.

[LoungeMachine]

It's not like he said God wanted the Panthers to Lose on Sunday [ He does]

It's not like he said God was a Seahawks fan [ He is. ]

It's certainly not like those 16 words in a certain State Of The Union Speech


This just in from God.................










Seattle 24

Cryinglina 17

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by freudvitamin


Is this a joke?
People who proclaim what God wants disturb me.


God want a Seattle / Denver Superbowl





He told me so :cool:

[FORD]

Verily.

[freudvitamin]

God want a Seattle / Denver Superbowl



You have bad information. God is a Steelers Fan.:D

[blueturk]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
It's not like he said God wanted the Panthers to Lose on Sunday [ He does]

It's not like he said God was a Seahawks fan [ He is. ]

It's certainly not like those 16 words in a certain State Of The Union Speech


This just in from God.................










Seattle 24

Cryinglina 17

I'll tell you what, Lounge. If Seattle wins, I'll use a Seattle Seahawks logo avatar with any caption you make up for a week. If Carolina wins, vice versa. You game?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by blueturk
I'll tell you what, Lounge. If Seattle wins, I'll use a Seattle Seahawks logo avatar with any caption you make up for a week. If Carolina wins, vice versa. You game?

Deal, Bro.... :D

[blueturk]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Deal, Bro.... :D

SO BE IT! The wager is on....

[blueturk]

Oh by the way, Nagin is a fucking idiot.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by blueturk
Oh by the way, Nagin is a fucking idiot.


AGREED!!!!!



[ He is also, coincidentally........a Panthers Fan ]


;)

[DLR'sCock]

The Chocolate remark is no big. I unlike most of you, have many many black/african american(whatever term you think is the most appropriate) friends, and my friends don't mind being called black in the context that I am using at the moment so, and I persoanlly know hundreds of black people who I consider friends through one of my jobs and that remark is no big deal, and as a matter of fact the remark that Hillary is no big deal either.
People use the term Chocolate all othe time, albiet it is not the most professional/public term that is used for certian.
The repukes insult their intellignce. The repukes are so desparate these days it's so funny.

The racsist repukes would love for all of the displaced blacks to stay away from NO and not return.

Did God do what was done?


Well GOD does exist, and is very real. Everything and every one of you is a result of GOD.

You figure it out.

[Cathedral]

God was in the Hurricanes because he is in the air, he rides the wind, and the reason bad stuff happens in this world is because there is evil in the world.

How can anything be classified as Good if there isn't anything Bad to compare it to?

But is it really God who put those people in danger or was it developers who decided to build a city on the coast and below sea level with levee's that were structurally ignored for decades?

It seems more like the law of averages than anything biblical came riding down from heaven to settle some scores with select sinners.

Plus, the whole "Wrath Of God" thing doesn't fly with me because people had days to evacuate.
If there is any blame to go around it falls on the state, local, and federal governments for not being more proactive in getting the people out.
You can't blame God for the failures of man, sorry.

Nagin needs a vacation that lasts the rest of his political life.

Why?
because there were 12,000 people the buses he left sitting could have evacuated, but he chose to wait for more plush Greyhounds.
I'm surprised his ass hasn't been sent packing for that one alone.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Cathedral


God

he rides the wind,

.


God is Christpher Cross ?????????






Told ya, Nick........[ he thought He was Kenny G ]

[LoungeMachine]

Personally, I fault Nagin for not being able to corral 100 or so people willing to drive those school buses out of town .............fast.


But Fema / Chertoff / Brown / BushCO shoulder 99.4% of the blame....

[blueturk]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Personally, I fault Nagin for not being able to corral 100 or so people willing to drive those school buses out of town .............fast.


But Fema / Chertoff / Brown / BushCO shoulder 99.4% of the blame....

Sadly, Nagin's antics threaten to overshadow the pathetic federal response to Katrina, at least temporarily. Unlike the way the Panthers will overshadow the Seahawks, which will last forever (or at least a good long while) in your memories. :D

[LoungeMachine]

Jack Abramoff Donates to Carolina Panther

AP

Last updated 01/18/06 19:13 PM


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See full story at www.gulliblecarolinafans.com/madeyoulook.htm

[DrMaddVibe]

BREASTS

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Personally, I fault Nagin for not being able to corral 100 or so people willing to drive those school buses out of town .............fast.


But Fema / Chertoff / Brown / BushCO shoulder 99.4% of the blame....


99.4%?
Bullshit, that works if your a registered Democrat but not if you're a fan of reality.
It all began with arrogance at the local level and climbed up the pole like a fuse.
Yes, it all stops at the doorstep to the White House and Bush is ultimately responsible for the failure.
But 99.4% to blame for it?
Not hardly, the blame is thick enough that everyone gets an equal share of it.

[FORD]

The problem with the buses was the fact that they are independently owned.

Due to deregulation championed by Republicans.....

So even the part that Nagin allegedly fucked up was mostly the Republicans' fault.

Some things just should NOT be privately owned. School buses are one example, and for this very reason. Energy utilities are another good example (see ENRON and the West Coast Energy Crisis of 2001. Or the Ohio Grid Meltdown of 2002.

[Warham]

Well, where were the keys to those buses?

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Warham
Well, where were the keys to those buses?

Nope, sorry, Nagin himself said he was waiting for Greyhounds because, and i quote him here, "Greyhounds are more comfortable".

Now excuse me for a second, but isn't staying alive a tad more important than leg room when evacuating?

I swear, Lib's never miss a chance at trying to pin things where they don't belong. it's never their guy to blame even when the popcorn trail leads to their living room too.

I bet y'all suck at pin the tail on the donkey, lol.

The Democratic party is like the def leading the def with a blind man as a spotter.

[Nickdfresh]

It's tough to make buses run without drivers...

And it's also impossible to evacuate a city without significant planning and assistance. Did you guys notice when Houston (we have a problem) was "evacuated?" I mean you had a log jam of, bumper to bumper, traffic and dry gas stations complete with a military tanker trunk delivering fuel that included a gas-filler nozzle that didn't fit.

Yes, NAGIN is an asshole, or he's "losin' it." But he's far from the primary one to blame. I mean, why don't you guys ever call out Giuliani for 9/11? I'm sure he could have had the city station Nat'l Guard or NYPD with stingers on every NYC skyscraper... It's all his fucking fault!:rolleyes:

[Cathedral]

Excuses, Nick...
They had 3 days to get those people out of there and there would have been volunteers to drive those buses if the need had been advertised, (in fact, there were volunteers, but that's just a nasty little detail).

I got no problem stringing Bush up by his ankles for his part in the failure. but you guys trying to go easy on the Liberal boy Nagin is pathetic, man.
The response effort began with him and the state of Louisianna, and it was botched from the start, see, i remember how lost and out of sync they were when they had 3 fucking days warning.
I remember the little political arrogance and power tripping that went back and forth before the levee broke, the facts don't lie.
But here's the sticky part for me that pins that blame on all involved...The Governor hesitated to give Bush the power to act initially, you forget that, I do not.
The needs of the people did not outweigh the political posturing, bro.
They were irresponsible to say the most.

We can nit-pick all day long on this, but all of them fucked up, period.
The fact that Bush is ultimately responsible isn't good enough though...y'all have to put him behind the steering wheel of a Hurricane and claim he drove it inland in order to rid Nawlen's of the poor blacks.

The fact is, the US Government let the people down, and it was a Bi-Partisan effort.

[scamper]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
I unlike most of you, have many many black/african american(whatever term you think is the most appropriate) friends

WTF

[scamper]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
It's tough to make buses run without drivers...

And it's also impossible to evacuate a city without significant planning and assistance. Did you guys notice when Houston (we have a problem) was "evacuated?" I mean you had a log jam of, bumper to bumper, traffic and dry gas stations complete with a military tanker trunk delivering fuel that included a gas-filler nozzle that didn't fit.

Yes, NAGIN is an asshole, or he's "losin' it." But he's far from the primary one to blame. I mean, why don't you guys ever call out Giuliani for 9/11? I'm sure he could have had the city station Nat'l Guard or NYPD with stingers on every NYC skyscraper... It's all his fucking fault!:rolleyes:

So what you're saying is that nothing could be done, then stop trying to lay the blame. Hurricane/terrorist?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by scamper
So what you're saying is that nothing could be done, then stop trying to lay the blame. Hurricane/terrorist?



I'm saying the blame is misplaced, and the bus thing is largely constructed from bullshit, and was in fact a preemptive strike by partisan sites designed to deflect blame away from the Feds.

Link (http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-4/113005056877980.xml)

The Times-Picayune
Nagin gets mixed reviews
Evacuation plans, Superdome use criticized 4
Sunday, October 23, 2005
By Gordon Russell
Staff writer

...
As congressional panels try to sort out what went wrong, perhaps none of Nagin's decisions will be more closely scrutinized than the ones he made as Katrina approached.

Nagin issued a voluntary evacuation order Saturday, Aug. 27, at 5 p.m., less than two days before Katrina's arrival, as forecasters sounded the alarm that the storm likely would devastate the region. It was a routine step, one taken by city officials in advance of storms dating to 1998 and the suggestion of the administration of Marc Morial that people leave in advance of Hurricane Georges.

Nagin also announced he was faxing notices to ministers citywide, urging them to ask congregants to provide rides to those without transportation.

The city, the University of New Orleans and the American Red Cross had tried to formalize such a ride-sharing program for more than two years, after concluding that the city would not be able to provide enough bus drivers in such a situation, said former New Orleans Emergency Preparedness Director Terry Tullier.

"We talked many times about commandeering tour buses and school buses," Tullier said. "There's plenty of stuff out there to put people in, but when push comes to shove the bus drivers are trying to get their own families out of town and can't be counted on."

The transportation concern was a major point of discussion among participants in the 2004 Hurricane Pam exercise, which was run by the Federal Emergency Management Agency in conjunction with the state, Tullier said.

But with Katrina bearing down, Nagin made his evacuation order mandatory Sunday morning, directing those who could not evacuate to make their way to the Superdome -- a "refuge of last resort" -- via city buses that picked people up at 12 staging areas around the city.

Those actions have been questioned by many observers. It's not clear, and perhaps never will be clear, how many people were unaware of the evacuation order, issued less than 24 hours before landfall.

In Nagin's view, the numbers speak for themselves.

"We evacuated more people this time than any other time in our city's history," he said. "There's no doubt in my mind that we saved a lot of lives as a result of the things that we did."

But others have questioned why Nagin didn't make more of an effort to bus those without cars out of the city before the storm came -- or, short of that, try to ensure that more buses and drivers were available in the wake of the storm. The city and state hurricane plans are vague on how those without transportation are to be evacuated, although they note that School Board and Regional Transit Authority buses can be used for such an effort.

Instead, most of the RTA's buses were moved to a facility on Canal Street that officials thought -- wrongly -- would be safe from floodwaters. Some buses positioned on the riverfront were high and dry, but as the waters rose, getting them to the evacuees became a problem, and, according to Nagin, drivers weren't available anyway.

In fact, the RTA was hardly able to muster enough drivers for Sunday's roundup, in which people were ferried to the Dome from staging points, Nagin said. He did not try to use School Board buses, which he said he has no control over.

"History is going to judge us on that one," Nagin said. "We had 100,000 people who relied on public transportation. We would have needed 1,200 buses to evacuate everybody. We don't have that. All the facts are going to come out, . . . and you will see this was a little above what we could handle," Nagin added, referring to ongoing inquiries into the handling of the disaster.

Still, Nagin added: "I think we'll do something different next time. Maybe we stage buses outside of the city and we put drivers up outside the city."

Brinkley, the historian, thinks those lessons should have been learned last year, when New Orleans narrowly escaped the wrath of Hurricane Ivan.

"His lack of prioritizing hurricane evacuation after Ivan, after we dodged a bullet, is criminal," Brinkley said. "He didn't learn from Ivan. He was kind of playing the, 'Oh, boy, another close one,' living on a prayer. That's not the way to treat a major metropolitan area."

City Constable Lambert Boissiere Jr., who as a state senator was one of Nagin's floor leaders, said the evacuation should have been declared earlier and that there should have been a greater effort to bus out those who couldn't go on their own.

"I know there was a problem getting bus drivers, but that's where the National Guard and the governor come in," he said.

Howell, like Nagin, said she doesn't think the city could have done it. "There was not enough money to plan for this scenario, because this may or may not have happened," she said.
...


FromWikinews (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Controversy_over_whether_New_Orleans_Mayor_failed_ to_follow_hurricane_plan)
...It is unclear whether Mayor Nagin knew these particular buses existed, since the Orleans Parish School Board is not under his jurisdiction and his office would not normally know the location of OPSB bus yards or be able to contact the drivers of those buses to place them into service. Normally it is the job of FEMA to coordinate between the various local jurisdictions such as the OPSB and the City of New Orleans in this case. That is, under the rules of prior hurricane responses, FEMA would ask all local jurisdictions for a list of resources under their control. Then FEMA would have taken a request from Nagin for buses, relayed it to the Orleans Parish School Board or other local jurisdictions which had buses, and at that point the OPSB would have provided the buses to Nagin. That coordination did not happen here, but it is unclear whether Nagin ever made such a request prior to the hurricane and after the hurricane they were underwater and useless...

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh


"We talked many times about commandeering tour buses and school buses," Tullier said. "There's plenty of stuff out there to put people in, but when push comes to shove the bus drivers are trying to get their own families out of town and can't be counted on."



Not a legit argument.

Anybody can drive a school bus. Takes about a minute to learn, especially when you're life is on the line.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I'm saying the blame is misplaced, and the bus thing is largely constructed from bullshit, and was in fact a preemptive strike by partisan sites designed to deflect blame away from the Feds.

Link (http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-4/113005056877980.xml)

The Times-Picayune
Nagin gets mixed reviews
Evacuation plans, Superdome use criticized 4
Sunday, October 23, 2005
By Gordon Russell
Staff writer

...
As congressional panels try to sort out what went wrong, perhaps none of Nagin's decisions will be more closely scrutinized than the ones he made as Katrina approached.

Nagin issued a voluntary evacuation order Saturday, Aug. 27, at 5 p.m., less than two days before Katrina's arrival, as forecasters sounded the alarm that the storm likely would devastate the region. It was a routine step, one taken by city officials in advance of storms dating to 1998 and the suggestion of the administration of Marc Morial that people leave in advance of Hurricane Georges.

Nagin also announced he was faxing notices to ministers citywide, urging them to ask congregants to provide rides to those without transportation.

The city, the University of New Orleans and the American Red Cross had tried to formalize such a ride-sharing program for more than two years, after concluding that the city would not be able to provide enough bus drivers in such a situation, said former New Orleans Emergency Preparedness Director Terry Tullier.

"We talked many times about commandeering tour buses and school buses," Tullier said. "There's plenty of stuff out there to put people in, but when push comes to shove the bus drivers are trying to get their own families out of town and can't be counted on."

The transportation concern was a major point of discussion among participants in the 2004 Hurricane Pam exercise, which was run by the Federal Emergency Management Agency in conjunction with the state, Tullier said.

But with Katrina bearing down, Nagin made his evacuation order mandatory Sunday morning, directing those who could not evacuate to make their way to the Superdome -- a "refuge of last resort" -- via city buses that picked people up at 12 staging areas around the city.

Those actions have been questioned by many observers. It's not clear, and perhaps never will be clear, how many people were unaware of the evacuation order, issued less than 24 hours before landfall.

In Nagin's view, the numbers speak for themselves.

"We evacuated more people this time than any other time in our city's history," he said. "There's no doubt in my mind that we saved a lot of lives as a result of the things that we did."

But others have questioned why Nagin didn't make more of an effort to bus those without cars out of the city before the storm came -- or, short of that, try to ensure that more buses and drivers were available in the wake of the storm. The city and state hurricane plans are vague on how those without transportation are to be evacuated, although they note that School Board and Regional Transit Authority buses can be used for such an effort.

Instead, most of the RTA's buses were moved to a facility on Canal Street that officials thought -- wrongly -- would be safe from floodwaters. Some buses positioned on the riverfront were high and dry, but as the waters rose, getting them to the evacuees became a problem, and, according to Nagin, drivers weren't available anyway.

In fact, the RTA was hardly able to muster enough drivers for Sunday's roundup, in which people were ferried to the Dome from staging points, Nagin said. He did not try to use School Board buses, which he said he has no control over.

"History is going to judge us on that one," Nagin said. "We had 100,000 people who relied on public transportation. We would have needed 1,200 buses to evacuate everybody. We don't have that. All the facts are going to come out, . . . and you will see this was a little above what we could handle," Nagin added, referring to ongoing inquiries into the handling of the disaster.

Still, Nagin added: "I think we'll do something different next time. Maybe we stage buses outside of the city and we put drivers up outside the city."

Brinkley, the historian, thinks those lessons should have been learned last year, when New Orleans narrowly escaped the wrath of Hurricane Ivan.

"His lack of prioritizing hurricane evacuation after Ivan, after we dodged a bullet, is criminal," Brinkley said. "He didn't learn from Ivan. He was kind of playing the, 'Oh, boy, another close one,' living on a prayer. That's not the way to treat a major metropolitan area."

City Constable Lambert Boissiere Jr., who as a state senator was one of Nagin's floor leaders, said the evacuation should have been declared earlier and that there should have been a greater effort to bus out those who couldn't go on their own.

"I know there was a problem getting bus drivers, but that's where the National Guard and the governor come in," he said.

Howell, like Nagin, said she doesn't think the city could have done it. "There was not enough money to plan for this scenario, because this may or may not have happened," she said.
...

BULLSHIT!

How is putting the blame where it belongs, on everyone, deflecting from the Feds?
At the end of the day it fell at Bush's feet, he's the President, the buck stops there, and nobody is arguing that.

It is you that is on the bandwagon trying to deflect away from putting any blame on a Democrat, that is where the deflection is coming into play.
Bush even claimed responsibility for what ultimately happened but that isn't good enough for y'all, because he hasn't yet been crucified yet.

I swear, you guys are so shallow in your political mindedness that you don't even see how transparent your own conspiracies are.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Not a legit argument.

Anybody can drive a school bus. Takes about a minute to learn, especially when you're life is on the line.


I agree.

Had I been Nagin, as a last resort I would have had my staff driving those fuckers.......hot wiring them if needed.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Nope, sorry, Nagin himself said he was waiting for Greyhounds because, and i quote him here, "Greyhounds are more comfortable".

Now excuse me for a second, but isn't staying alive a tad more important than leg room when evacuating?



Leg room wasn't what he was referring to as "comfort".

Remember, this is New orleans in the late summer. Weather conditions: very hot, and with a hurricane coming, even more humid than usual. Given the numbers of people evacuating, odds are these buses would be crawling or even sitting on the highway for extended periods of time. School buses are not equipped with air conditioners or bathrooms, so packing as many people into a school bus under conditions like this would be hazardous in and of itself. Especially for the old folks and the children.

That's what Nagin was thinking, and for that much, I can't blame the guy.

[Guitar Shark]

There is plenty of blame to spread around to everyone.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
There is plenty of blame to spread around to everyone.

True, and I'm not going to dog the guy about the "chocolate" comment.

Let the man go to work and try to put his wounded city back together again.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh


Yes, NAGIN is an asshole, or he's "losin' it." But he's far from the primary one to blame. I mean, why don't you guys ever call out Giuliani for 9/11? I'm sure he could have had the city station Nat'l Guard or NYPD with stingers on every NYC skyscraper... It's all his fucking fault!:rolleyes:

Wait -- clarify for me. Before or after the attack? I only ask because a hurricane at Cat 5 approaching from the gulf and a plane speeding at a building are happening at two different warning speeds.

[BITEYOASS]

Chocolate city?!?!?! WTF I am outraged to think that Mayor Nagin thinks that New Orleans is going to be the next Hershey, PA or Munich!!! LOL :D

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Wait -- clarify for me. Before or after the attack? I only ask because a hurricane at Cat 5 approaching from the gulf and a plane speeding at a building are happening at two different warning speeds.

Really?

February 10, 2005


9/11 Report Cites Many Warnings About Hijackings

By ERIC LICHTBLAU

WASHINGTON, Feb. 9 - In the months before the Sept. 11 attacks, federal aviation officials reviewed dozens of intelligence reports that warned about Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda, some of which specifically discussed airline hijackings and suicide operations, according to a previously undisclosed report from the 9/11 commission.

But aviation officials were "lulled into a false sense of security," and "intelligence that indicated a real and growing threat leading up to 9/11 did not stimulate significant increases in security procedures," the commission report concluded.

The report discloses that the Federal Aviation Administration, despite being focused on risks of hijackings overseas, warned airports in the spring of 2001 that if "the intent of the hijacker is not to exchange hostages for prisoners, but to commit suicide in a spectacular explosion, a domestic hijacking would probably be preferable."

The report takes the F.A.A. to task for failing to pursue domestic security measures that could conceivably have altered the events of Sept. 11, 2001, like toughening airport screening procedures for weapons or expanding the use of on-flight air marshals. The report, completed last August, said officials appeared more concerned with reducing airline congestion, lessening delays, and easing airlines' financial woes than deterring a terrorist attack.

The Bush administration has blocked the public release of the full, classified version of the report for more than five months, officials said, much to the frustration of former commission members who say it provides a critical understanding of the failures of the civil aviation system. The administration provided both the classified report and a declassified, 120-page version to the National Archives two weeks ago and, even with heavy redactions in some areas, the declassified version provides the firmest evidence to date about the warnings that aviation officials received concerning the threat of an attack on airliners and the failure to take steps to deter it.

Among other things, the report says that leaders of the F.A.A. received 52 intelligence reports from their security branch that mentioned Mr. bin Laden or Al Qaeda from April to Sept. 10, 2001. That represented half of all the intelligence summaries in that time.

Five of the intelligence reports specifically mentioned Al Qaeda's training or capability to conduct hijackings, the report said. Two mentioned suicide operations, although not connected to aviation, the report said.

A spokeswoman for the F.A.A., the agency that bears the brunt of the commission's criticism, said Wednesday that the agency was well aware of the threat posed by terrorists before Sept. 11 and took substantive steps to counter it, including the expanded use of explosives detection units.

"We had a lot of information about threats," said the spokeswoman, Laura J. Brown. "But we didn't have specific information about means or methods that would have enabled us to tailor any countermeasures."

She added: "After 9/11, the F.A..A. and the entire aviation community took bold steps to improve aviation security, such as fortifying cockpit doors on 6,000 airplanes, and those steps took hundreds of millions of dollars to implement."

The report, like previous commission documents, finds no evidence that the government had specific warning of a domestic attack and says that the aviation industry considered the hijacking threat to be more worrisome overseas.

"The fact that the civil aviation system seems to have been lulled into a false sense of security is striking not only because of what happened on 9/11 but also in light of the intelligence assessments, including those conducted by the F.A.A.'s own security branch, that raised alarms about the growing terrorist threat to civil aviation throughout the 1990's and into the new century," the report said.

In its previous findings, including a final report last July that became a best-selling book, the 9/11 commission detailed the harrowing events aboard the four hijacked flights that crashed on Sept. 11 and the communications problems between civil aviation and military officials that hampered the response. But the new report goes further in revealing the scope and depth of intelligence collected by federal aviation officials about the threat of a terrorist attack.

The F.A.A. "had indeed considered the possibility that terrorists would hijack a plane and use it as a weapon," and in 2001 it distributed a CD-ROM presentation to airlines and airports that cited the possibility of a suicide hijacking, the report said. Previous commission documents have quoted the CD's reassurance that "fortunately, we have no indication that any group is currently thinking in that direction."

Aviation officials amassed so much information about the growing threat posed by terrorists that they conducted classified briefings in mid-2001 for security officials at 19 of the nation's busiest airports to warn of the threat posed in particular by Mr. bin Laden, the report said.

Still, the 9/11 commission concluded that aviation officials did not direct adequate resources or attention to the problem.

"Throughout 2001, the senior leadership of the F.A.A. was focused on congestion and delays within the system and the ever-present issue of safety, but they were not as focused on security," the report said.

The F.A.A. did not see a need to increase the air marshal ranks because hijackings were seen as an overseas threat, and one aviation official told the commission said that airlines did not want to give up revenues by providing free seats to marshals.

The F.A.A. also made no concerted effort to expand their list of terror suspects, which included a dozen names on Sept. 11, the report said. The former head of the F.A.A.'s civil aviation security branch said he was not aware of the government's main watch list, called Tipoff, which included the names of two hijackers who were living in the San Diego area, the report said.

Nor was there evidence that a senior F.A.A. working group on security had ever met in 2001 to discuss "the high threat period that summer," the report said.

Jane F. Garvey, the F.A.A. administrator at the time, told the commission "that she was aware of the heightened threat during the summer of 2001," the report said. But several other senior agency officials "were basically unaware of the threat," as were senior airline operations officials and veteran pilots, the report said.

The classified version of the commission report quotes extensively from circulars prepared by the F.A.A. about the threat of terrorism, but many of those references have been blacked out in the declassified version, officials said.

Several former commissioners and staff members said they were upset and disappointed by the administration's refusal to release the full report publicly.

"Our intention was to make as much information available to the public as soon as possible," said Richard Ben-Veniste, a former Sept. 11 commission member.


Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company (http://www.yuricareport.com/911/FAAReceived52Warnings.html)

But that fact notwithstanding, so the hell any city's populace facing a huge disaster? Tell me this, how long did it take the Nat'l Guard to get into NYC after 9/11? How long did it take them to get to the Superdome? And mandatory evacuations were ordered, but how would they get out of a city within a couple days with the highways jammed up?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
BULLSHIT!

How is putting the blame where it belongs, on everyone, deflecting from the Feds?
At the end of the day it fell at Bush's feet, he's the President, the buck stops there, and nobody is arguing that.

It is you that is on the bandwagon trying to deflect away from putting any blame on a Democrat, that is where the deflection is coming into play.
Bush even claimed responsibility for what ultimately happened but that isn't good enough for y'all, because he hasn't yet been crucified yet.

I swear, you guys are so shallow in your political mindedness that you don't even see how transparent your own conspiracies are.

Um, no CAT. I'm not trying to deflect blame from NAGIN, just pointing out that the whole notion of NAGIN leading busloads of New Orleans citizens to the promised land are completely unrealistic.


If you're going to blame the New Orleans gov't for anything, blame them for not insuring that the levees were durable enough and for not raising hell to get them Cat-5 proof...

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh

If you're going to blame the New Orleans gov't for anything, blame them for not insuring that the levees were durable enough and for not raising hell to get them Cat-5 proof...


Didn't they TRY to get them upgraded and were shot down by the Feds? :confused: