I don't support the troops...

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  • Big Train
    Full Member Status

    • Apr 2004
    • 4011

    I don't support the troops...



    Libs,

    What should I call this...a reverse chicken hawk?


    January 24, 2006

    latimes.com : Print Edition : Editorials, Op-Ed

    Joel Stein:

    Warriors and wusses

    I DON'T SUPPORT our troops. This is a particularly difficult opinion to have, especially if you are the kind of person who likes to put bumper stickers on his car. Supporting the troops is a position that even Calvin is unwilling to urinate on.

    I'm sure I'd like the troops. They seem gutsy, young and up for anything. If you're wandering into a recruiter's office and signing up for eight years of unknown danger, I want to hang with you in Vegas.

    And I've got no problem with other people — the ones who were for the Iraq war — supporting the troops. If you think invading Iraq was a good idea, then by all means, support away. Load up on those patriotic magnets and bracelets and other trinkets the Chinese are making money off of.

    But I'm not for the war. And being against the war and saying you support the troops is one of the wussiest positions the pacifists have ever taken — and they're wussy by definition. It's as if the one lesson they took away from Vietnam wasn't to avoid foreign conflicts with no pressing national interest but to remember to throw a parade afterward.

    Blindly lending support to our soldiers, I fear, will keep them overseas longer by giving soft acquiescence to the hawks who sent them there — and who might one day want to send them somewhere else. Trust me, a guy who thought 50.7% was a mandate isn't going to pick up on the subtleties of a parade for just service in an unjust war. He's going to be looking for funnel cake.

    Besides, those little yellow ribbons aren't really for the troops. They need body armor, shorter stays and a USO show by the cast of "Laguna Beach."

    The real purpose of those ribbons is to ease some of the guilt we feel for voting to send them to war and then making absolutely no sacrifices other than enduring two Wolf Blitzer shows a day. Though there should be a ribbon for that.

    I understand the guilt. We know we're sending recruits to do our dirty work, and we want to seem grateful.

    After we've decided that we made a mistake, we don't want to blame the soldiers who were ordered to fight. Or even our representatives, who were deceived by false intelligence. And certainly not ourselves, who failed to object to a war we barely understood.

    But blaming the president is a little too easy. The truth is that people who pull triggers are ultimately responsible, whether they're following orders or not. An army of people making individual moral choices may be inefficient, but an army of people ignoring their morality is horrifying. An army of people ignoring their morality, by the way, is also Jack Abramoff's pet name for the House of Representatives.

    I do sympathize with people who joined up to protect our country, especially after 9/11, and were tricked into fighting in Iraq. I get mad when I'm tricked into clicking on a pop-up ad, so I can only imagine how they feel.

    But when you volunteer for the U.S. military, you pretty much know you're not going to be fending off invasions from Mexico and Canada. So you're willingly signing up to be a fighting tool of American imperialism, for better or worse. Sometimes you get lucky and get to fight ethnic genocide in Kosovo, but other times it's Vietnam.

    And sometimes, for reasons I don't understand, you get to just hang out in Germany.

    I know this is all easy to say for a guy who grew up with money, did well in school and hasn't so much as served on jury duty for his country. But it's really not that easy to say because anyone remotely affiliated with the military could easily beat me up, and I'm listed in the phone book.

    I'm not advocating that we spit on returning veterans like they did after the Vietnam War, but we shouldn't be celebrating people for doing something we don't think was a good idea. All I'm asking is that we give our returning soldiers what they need: hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return. But, please, no parades.

    Seriously, the traffic is insufferable.
  • 4moreyears
    Commando
    • Oct 2004
    • 1245

    #2
    What a fucking dick. Funny I am sure he loves his rights to express his opinion.

    Comment

    • thome
      ROTH ARMY ELITE
      • Mar 2005
      • 6675

      #3
      The whole article i see a man with his head in the sand and on his knees \and he has pulled his own pants down.

      I understand the guilt. We know we're sending recruits to do our dirty work, and we want to seem grateful.....

      How can he say We /Our and still write the article he has,, obviously
      self destructive in his view of himself.

      But that's his OP and he has the rites to say it.I wonder how he got them...

      Comment

      • thome
        ROTH ARMY ELITE
        • Mar 2005
        • 6675

        #4
        Or he is in the middle the Doldrums can't move Frozen in the face of the tough decision Am I for or Against... he seems neither.

        Probably lot of people like that....

        Even pacifists are angry mean bastards who will kill you to proove the point that -you- are wrong..

        He is no pacifist he is a frozen meat bag no left no rite, a punchin bag..

        Comment

        • Big Train
          Full Member Status

          • Apr 2004
          • 4011

          #5
          I think he is an arrogant tool who really doesnt care either way, but wants to get attention for himself as a "hard hitting writer"...

          Comment

          • thome
            ROTH ARMY ELITE
            • Mar 2005
            • 6675

            #6
            Originally posted by Big Train
            I think he is an arrogant tool who really doesnt care either way, but wants to get attention for himself as a "hard hitting writer"...
            sometimes i feel that way about myself if that was ment for me i hear you .

            I prefer -angry opinionated prick- i just hope my tombstone sais more than that....

            Comment

            • Nitro Express
              DIAMOND STATUS
              • Aug 2004
              • 32797

              #7
              The article is written by a spoiled asshole who never had to put his life on the line for anything. Sadly we send some of the countrys greatest people to fight while the spoiled, worthless ones stay here and bitch about it. I had a friend return from Iraq in December. He was away from his wife and kids for almost two years . He stuffed as much ammo anywhere he could because the shit could break loose at anytime. His wife never complained once and he never complained.

              All nations need a military because if they didn't someone moves in and takes over. Armed forces exist for one thing, to kill people and break things. That's what they are trained to do. The military is a machine that runs on people following orders whether they want to or not. Niether man grandfather in the WWI trenches nor my father in Korea wanted to be there nor did they enjoy killing but they did. My grandfathrer never owned a gun after WWI and he was a cowboy redneck type. He never talked about the war because it was too horrible.

              War is doing your duty and killing other people on the other side doing their duty. As once said war is pure hell. Maybe we should be anti-war but dream on.

              When Osama Bin Ladden attacked us on 9/11 he started a war. We might not always like the strategy and question the motives but what were we suppossed to do? Sit here at home and do nothing? Pandoras box has been opened and the world has changed, we will be involved in the middle east for a long time because we were attacked. War takes on it's course after it's started and everyone has an oppinion but nomatter who is in office at the time we were attacked and we are at war. We live in the age of dirty little wars and not big wars. Why? The big wars are unwinable because nukes are involved. So we have been fighting little wars since WWII and non of them have had a clear outcome.

              Why do the politicians and citizens argue so much now? Nobody has an answer and nobody knows who the enemy really is.

              Sure it's fucked and I think Bush has made big mistakes but to blame the guy who signed up to go into the military or reserves for variouse reasons is stupid. Most those guys signed up to get money for college. Now they are in a war. It's those same people who will be defending us here at home if our enemies bring the fight here.
              No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

              Comment

              • DR CHIP
                Foot Soldier
                • Jan 2004
                • 618

                #8
                Horrible article

                Comment

                • Va Beach VH Fan
                  ROTH ARMY FOUNDER
                  • Dec 2003
                  • 17913

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Big Train
                  But I'm not for the war. And being against the war and saying you support the troops is one of the wussiest positions the pacifists have ever taken — and they're wussy by definition.
                  What a completely ridiculous statement....

                  OF COURSE you can be against the war but still support the troops....

                  THE TROOPS don't decide who/where they go to war against, it the idiots who set the policy who decide...

                  BTW, is was those same idiots who DIDN'T go to war when they should have....

                  Agreeing with the POLICY and supporting the TROOPS are two different things, completely....
                  Eat Us And Smile - The Originals

                  "I have a very belligerent enthusiasm or an enthusiastic belligerence. I’m an intellectual slut." - David Lee Roth

                  "We are part of the, not just the culture, but the geography. Van Halen music goes along with like fries with the burger." - David Lee Roth

                  Comment

                  • Nickdfresh
                    SUPER MODERATOR

                    • Oct 2004
                    • 49136

                    #10
                    OMG! This guy's so against the troops that this fucking commie-lib bastard wants to subvert George W. Bush's policies by:

                    ..not advocating that we spit on returning veterans like they did after the Vietnam War...

                    ....asking that we give our returning soldiers what they need: hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return. But, please, no parades.

                    Seriously, the traffic is insufferable.

                    --Joel Stein
                    That bastard!

                    Comment

                    • Warham
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 14589

                      #11
                      The anti-war crowd in the 60's and 70's probably insisted that they didn't want the vets to get spat on, and look what happened.

                      Comment

                      • Nickdfresh
                        SUPER MODERATOR

                        • Oct 2004
                        • 49136

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Warham
                        The anti-war crowd in the 60's and 70's probably insisted that they didn't want the vets to get spat on, and look what happened.
                        I also recall a lot of people in the 80's saying that politicians should never run wars politically, they should leave that to the military and make sure that we're out of win...

                        And we should never get caught up into other people's civil wars...

                        Comment

                        • FORD
                          ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                          • Jan 2004
                          • 58759

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Warham
                          The anti-war crowd in the 60's and 70's probably insisted that they didn't want the vets to get spat on, and look what happened.
                          Yeah, it's a well circulated myth with the FAUX/NewsHax types, but I've never seen any evidence of it.

                          In fact the only people I've ever seen spitting on Vietnam vets are the Bush Criminal Empire and their associated political hit squads like "Swift Boat Shitheads Against Truth". They have spit on John McCain, Al Gore, John Kerry, Max Cleland, and by extention, all of those who served with them.

                          Which, coincidentally, does NOT include Junior, Uncle Dick, Rove, or any of the FAUX/NewsHax/Washingmoonie Times cheerleaders. Go figure.

                          And for the record, I think I know what the author of this article meant to say (see the last paragraph) but his presentation overall pretty much sucked ass.
                          Eat Us And Smile

                          Cenk For America 2024!!

                          Justice Democrats


                          "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                          Comment

                          • blueturk
                            Veteran
                            • Jul 2004
                            • 1883

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Warham
                            The anti-war crowd in the 60's and 70's probably insisted that they didn't want the vets to get spat on, and look what happened.
                            Which anti-war crowd? The ones who were against the war itself, or the silver-spoon fed draft dodgers like Bush and Uncle Dick who were anti-war because they were scared to go?

                            Comment

                            • Big Train
                              Full Member Status

                              • Apr 2004
                              • 4011

                              #15
                              Re: I don't support the troops...

                              Originally posted by Big Train
                              [url]

                              After we've decided that we made a mistake, we don't want to blame the soldiers who were ordered to fight. Or even our representatives, who were deceived by false intelligence. And certainly not ourselves, who failed to object to a war we barely understood.

                              The truth is that people who pull triggers are ultimately responsible, whether they're following orders or not. An army of people making individual moral choices may be inefficient, but an army of people ignoring their morality is horrifying.

                              But when you volunteer for the U.S. military, you pretty much know you're not going to be fending off invasions from Mexico and Canada. So you're willingly signing up to be a fighting tool of American imperialism, for better or worse. Sometimes you get lucky and get to fight ethnic genocide in Kosovo, but other times it's Vietnam.

                              So his major problem with the soliders is that they DON'T revolt when he thinks they should? Fantastic logic. Liberal lunacy I tell ya...redefining things as it fits the argument.

                              Comment

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