"Study: Marriage bans harm gay health" [Archive] - The Diamond David Lee Roth Army

FORD

03-01-2006, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by Steve Savicki
Visit the hyperlink. I find it untrue to think that gays have higher rates of depression, alcoholism and drug abuse when compared to heterosexuals.

And I think the BCE are a bigger concern to be worrying about than gay marriage banning.

But it's the BCE who are behind the gay marriage bans. And only for use as a wedge issue to keep the red state trailer parks stirred up so they remain ignorant of what the BCE themselves are doing (see 95% of Busheep posts on this board or any other)

As for the stress, depression, and substance abuse among gays & lesbians, that's not hard to explain at all. Being told that your less than human, having your lives and freedom threatened, and occasionally targeted for physical violence simply because of who you are, tends to take a toll on one's health. And where religion might help most people as a coping mechanism, it's not always the case for the queers, where (depending on where they live) their church might well be part of the problem.

The sick irony of the whole thing is that those within the BCE who prey on homosexuals to create this distraction, and cause so much pain to millions of Americans, are gay themselves (i.e. Karl Rove, Karen Hughes, Scottie the Duck, Mary Cheney, and possibly the Chimp himself)

Angel

03-01-2006, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by FORD
As for the stress, depression, and substance abuse among gays & lesbians, that's not hard to explain at all. Being told that your less than human, having your lives and freedom threatened, and occasionally targeted for physical violence simply because of who you are, tends to take a toll on one's health.

Damn, and that's just what we get from DDLR.com, you should see what the rest of the world dishes out to us! ;)

twonabomber

03-01-2006, 01:42 PM

yes, DDLR is part of the Evil Empire. :rolleyes:

don't you ever fucking quit?

jacksmar

03-01-2006, 01:52 PM

Dr. Paul Cameron, Chairman of Family Research Institute, a research organization based in Colorado Springs, said today that a CDC-generated study found that homosexuals do not have a higher rate of illegal drug abuse than heterosexuals because they are the victims of discrimination. "Gay activists, while admitting that homosexuals are more likely to engage in illegal substance abuse, have long claimed that it was because of society’s rejection," Cameron noted. "This new study contradicts such a claim. Among other things, it demonstrates that Blacks - who have suffered greater discrimination -- if anything, are less apt than whites to engage in substance abuse."
The CDC national sexuality survey - the largest random sex survey in the history of the United States -- found gays and lesbians were about three times more apt to abuse illegal drugs. 41% of gays v. 13% of nongays and 21% of lesbians v. 9% of nonlesbians used illegal drugs last year. Almost half of those involved in prostitution (49%) and a fifth (19%) of those who ever regularly smoked also indulged.

The findings in regard to smoking were similar, with almost two-thirds of gays (65%) saying they either did or had regularly smoked. Not quite half of all adults (48%) had been or were regular smokers. About two-thirds of those involved in prostitution (67%) and illegal drug use (70%) also reported having regularly smoked.

"The claim of gay activists that ’discrimination’ drives them to use tobacco and drugs is disproved by the CDC study," Cameron said. "Blacks, who have been and are discriminated against, were less apt to have ever smoked (31%) than whites (49%) and about as apt to use illegal drugs (15% v. 13%). Homosexuals blame the rest of us for their problems. Blacks are still discriminated against in our society, but that does not lead them to greater substance abuse."

FORD

03-01-2006, 01:59 PM

"a research organization based in Colorado Springs"

That's analagous to a peace movement based in the Pentagon.

Or a vegetarian movement based in a slaughterhouse.

jacksmar

03-01-2006, 02:09 PM

"CDC-generated study"

Got context?

Angel

03-01-2006, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by twonabomber
yes, DDLR is part of the Evil Empire. :rolleyes:

don't you ever fucking quit?

Quit having fun? NEVER! Now, go use that Timmies certificate I gave you when you asked me for change on the street yesterday. :p

ELVIS

03-01-2006, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by FORD
But it's the BCE who are behind the gay marriage bans. And only for use as a wedge issue to keep the red state trailer parks stirred up so they remain ignorant of what the BCE themselves are doing (see 95% of Busheep posts on this board or any other)

As for the stress, depression, and substance abuse among gays & lesbians, that's not hard to explain at all. Being told that your less than human, having your lives and freedom threatened, and occasionally targeted for physical violence simply because of who you are, tends to take a toll on one's health. And where religion might help most people as a coping mechanism, it's not always the case for the queers, where (depending on where they live) their church might well be part of the problem.

The sick irony of the whole thing is that those within the BCE who prey on homosexuals to create this distraction, and cause so much pain to millions of Americans, are gay themselves (i.e. Karl Rove, Karen Hughes, Scottie the Duck, Mary Cheney, and possibly the Chimp himself)

You have serious issues...

FORD

03-01-2006, 02:27 PM

Dobson and his gang of trailer dwelling fuckheads don't DO research. They TWIST research.

And if the CDC is in the hands of a Chimp appointee, God only knows what kinds of lies they are spreading.

diamondD

03-01-2006, 02:40 PM

You're fucking babbling now...

FORD

03-01-2006, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
You have serious issues...

I guess Jesus had "serious issues" as well then. Just imagine the horror of a world where people actually treated one another with respect and didn't invent hysteria based on skin pigmentation, sexual orientation, or whatever other irrelevant excuse they made up for their hatred.

Steve Savicki

03-01-2006, 02:58 PM

Sorry for any confusion/mistakes on my part.

Beginning-of-the-month workload has me stress out.

Nickdfresh

03-01-2006, 05:44 PM

Maybe just post the article STEVE, instead of just a link...

I wonder what the "Family Research Institute," or the CDC, has to say about the dramatically higher rate of suicides among gay teens?

It's sort of like Hitler citing a study on Jews...

The very wording of this "study" is BS, since you can't just draw arbitrarily conclusions based on comparisons between gay and African-American substance abuse rates.

ELVIS

03-01-2006, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by FORD
I guess Jesus had "serious issues" as well then. Just imagine the horror of a world where people actually treated one another with respect and didn't invent hysteria based on skin pigmentation, sexual orientation, or whatever other irrelevant excuse they made up for their hatred.

Those things stem from liberals like you, who love to keep such issues alive...:rolleyes:

And please don't compare yourself to Jesus...

LMAO!

Angel

03-01-2006, 06:23 PM

Why not? Aren't Christians supposed to walk in his footsteps? Jesus has WONDERFUL teachings regarding how to treat others. Perhaps you should take a look at that bible of yours again...

Angel

03-01-2006, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by FORD
Just imagine the horror of a world where people actually treated one another with respect and didn't invent hysteria based on skin pigmentation, sexual orientation, or whatever other irrelevant excuse they made up for their hatred.

FORD, you're ALMOST describing Canada there! ;)

ELVIS

03-01-2006, 06:40 PM

Maybe he should go there...

A U-Haul from Washington can't be that much...:D

Jesus Christ

03-01-2006, 07:01 PM

Perhaps I should announce My Second Coming from Canada?

The BC Southern Interior is a lot like Galilee..... minus the violence :(

Jesus Christ

03-01-2006, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
Those things stem from liberals like you, who love to keep such issues alive...:rolleyes:

And please don't compare yourself to Jesus...

LMAO!

Ye should compare yourself to Me, Gregory. I know that it hath become a bumper sticker slogan on Earth, but verily there is great wisdom in the words, "What Would Jesus Do?"

Would I judge someone because of how they were born?

Would I rewrite the laws of My country to oppress those who I didn't agree with?

Would I justify a war based upon lies , and would I support the murderers responsible for such a war?

Ye should compare thyself to Me daily, Gregory.

And if ye are doing what I would not do, then one of us needeth to change.

And here is a hint: It's not Me :)

diamondD

03-01-2006, 08:30 PM

Here's another hint, you aren't Jesus and no one takes you seriously...:rolleyes:

Jesus Christ

03-01-2006, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by diamondD
Here's another hint, you aren't Jesus and no one takes you seriously...:rolleyes:

Jeffery, why do you persecute Me? :(

For does it matter who you believeth said the words, if they in fact are true?

diamondD

03-01-2006, 09:12 PM

David, just giving thee some shit for the stuff thou verily spew. ;)

And it's not spelled Jeffery

diamondD

03-01-2006, 09:18 PM

And, if you really believe "The Word", you wouldn't post as Jesus in the first place. That's a top ten no-no...

Jesus Christ

03-01-2006, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by diamondD
And, if you really believe "The Word", you wouldn't post as Jesus in the first place. That's a top ten no-no...

The words I posteth here are Mine. They come from My teachings and My parables.

If you choose not to believe that I am the one posting them, then at least believeth the words and teachings themselves.

For My teachings are so horribly misinterpreted by the so called "religious right", who are likened unto the Pharisees of My days upon this Earth. Should I not speaketh the truth about them?

Cathedral

03-01-2006, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by Jesus Christ
The words I posteth here are Mine. They come from My teachings and My parables.

If you choose not to believe that I am the one posting them, then at least believeth the words and teachings themselves.

For My teachings are so horribly misinterpreted by the so called "religious right", who are likened unto the Pharisees of My days upon this Earth. Should I not speaketh the truth about them?

You're a blasphemer for posing as Jesus, Ford.
I hope God has mercy on your soul, you'll need plenty of it.

Jesus will never except the gay lifestyle in any way.
You confuse his love for sinners with acceptance my blaspheming friend.
If you die a gay person you will be judged as an abomination to the creator.
But you?
Well, i'm sure you think it's cute to pretend to be Jesus but in your foolish ignorance you will most definately regret that on judgement day.

I'm praying for you, bro. its my duty as a servent of God to do so.

Nickdfresh

03-01-2006, 10:13 PM

Somehow I think JESUS has more on his plate than a guy posing as him on a message board...

People pose as his disciples everyday, and nobody gives them shit...:)

Cathedral

03-01-2006, 10:14 PM

thome

03-01-2006, 10:20 PM

I know you don't care about my OP but..here how it go...

marriage is a contract between a Man and a Woman to benefit in the
legal naming and protection of children.That is all.

Why do gays want to get married ? I can walk this earth with a lady
and never marry her and have a love as great as can be .If i wanted
children with her and visa versa lets get married.For the protection of the children.

Gays want to get married why? so they can justify their lifestyle that is a deviation of the purpose of marrige.

Let them, it just cheapens and nullifies the whole pupose of it, i don't care.

Next we can legalise people who want to fuk cattle and other animals so they can have the same rites as a married Man and Woman.

I preffer fukking telephone poles on street corners that have names
starting with Q. and i keep getting arrested and oppressed.
I am starting to enter legislation on capital hill to protect myself and others like me I am not injuring anyone and demand to be heard.
I soon will be seeking a bill to write that i cause no harm to the pole and -I -SAY -I -LOVE -THE- POLE- that is -MY -Justification to MARRY

Once we cheapen a law how far can it go..?

TELEPHONE POLE FUKKERS UNITE!!

who cares let them marry it will be one step closer to MY idea of what LOVE IS.

Cathedral

03-01-2006, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Somehow I think JESUS has more on his plate than a guy posing as him on a message board...

People pose as his disciples everyday, and nobody gives them shit...:)

You just keep thinking that, Nick.

And God will deal with the posers himself. he doesn't need anyone's help in that area. We just have to make sure not to support them or their deeds.

Nickdfresh

03-01-2006, 10:24 PM

Well CAT, you and I see eye-to-eye on something...

Cathedral

03-02-2006, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Well CAT, you and I see eye-to-eye on something...

Actually, we see eye-to-eye on many things, for instance...

A) We both think it is time to get out of Iraq.
B) We both agree that Bush has to go sooner rather than later.
C) We agree to disagree on several other issues, lol.

A-B-C, it's easy as 1-2-3... :)

4moreyears

03-03-2006, 10:16 PM

If fags were to be married it would have happened a long time ago. Why does our generation have to fuck it up. Leave it the way it is. If the Fags like Nick and Steve want to fuck each other up the ass let them, but leave marriage out of it.

FORD

03-03-2006, 10:19 PM

You sure are obsessed with "fags" and people fucking each other up the ass, aren't you?

thome

03-03-2006, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by thome
[
I soon will be seeking a bill to write that i cause no harm to the pole and -I -SAY -I -LOVE -THE- POLE- that is -MY -Justification to MARRY

[/B]

Still no baggin on thome for this obvious bait for a joke.?

FORD

03-03-2006, 10:35 PM

Hey, go fuck a telephone pole if you want. Just don't come here cryin about the splinters in your dick.

thome

03-03-2006, 10:48 PM

Thome Loves the Pole .!
etc ............

The Gay marrige thing kinda reminds me of the Women wanting into
Mens Clubs, just because, it's a Mens Only Club.

We want to marry even though we are not a man and a woman
marrige is not for a man and a woman i feel excluded from this
club .Kinda stuff

I feel it.s all about takeing away my rite to the club.
just because you can't get in kinda thing.

I don't want gays to marry cause it cheapens the whole deal
i don't think it makes it better it detracts from it.

But the way the divorce rate is.... let the gays deal with that sh!t also.
which---- Guy will nurture more and get the kids .------

So i say go ahead loonies marry up!

OH FUK THIS IS GOING TO BE FUNNY!

Ally_Kat

03-03-2006, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by Jesus Christ
Ye should compare yourself to Me, Gregory. I know that it hath become a bumper sticker slogan on Earth, but verily there is great wisdom in the words, "What Would Jesus Do?"

Would I judge someone because of how they were born?

Would I rewrite the laws of My country to oppress those who I didn't agree with?

Would I justify a war based upon lies , and would I support the murderers responsible for such a war?

Ye should compare thyself to Me daily, Gregory.

And if ye are doing what I would not do, then one of us needeth to change.

And here is a hint: It's not Me :)

Yeah, Ford, you really shouldn't express your opinion as Jesus' opinion. Especially that oppressing law part because you know well that even though it's "love the sinner hate the sin", Jesus would never sanction for a sin to become law. And I still find it funny that it's okay for you to do this, yet I register Holy Spirit and suddenly it's blasphemy.

FORD

03-03-2006, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Yeah, Ford, you really shouldn't express your opinion as Jesus' opinion. Especially that oppressing law part because you know well that even though it's "love the sinner hate the sin", Jesus would never sanction for a sin to become law. And I still find it funny that it's okay for you to do this, yet I register Holy Spirit and suddenly it's blasphemy.

Matthew 12:30-32

30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

If what Jesus says on this board equals "blasphemy", then the appearance of the Holy Spirit here definitely would be.

Jesus says that speaking a word "against" Him shall be forgiven, not as though that's what I'm doing, but that seems to be the accusation.

And for the record, I very much DO believe that Jesus would be opposed to any laws meant to oppress a group of people. He told the parable of the "Good Samaritan" within the historical context of how the Jews felt about the Samaritans, but he didn't endorse their prejudice.

Rather the whole point of the parable was to show how stupid the prejudice was, when the Samaritan turned out to be the hero.

And of course the moral was "Love thy neighbor".

ELVIS

03-03-2006, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by FORD
And for the record, I very much DO believe that Jesus would be opposed to any laws meant to oppress a group of people.

What if that group of people were Satanists ??

ELVIS

03-03-2006, 11:41 PM

..and what if those satanists were "good samaritans", and/or love their neighbors ??

Warham

03-03-2006, 11:42 PM

It's not oppression when they are doing something GOD forbids, FORD.

GOD doesn't endorse the gay lifestyle, so why would He think gays are being oppressed?

ELVIS

03-03-2006, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by Warham
GOD doesn't endorse the gay lifestyle,

I'm 100% sure FORD disagrees with this, but in his heart he knows the truth...

FORD

03-03-2006, 11:51 PM

GOD doesn't have any involvement in the United States Constitution or the laws of any state. Regardless of what the Mormons in Utah think.

As for Satanists, they are free to practice their religion as much as anyone else. If they actually DID sacrifice babies or whatever the hysterical myths say, then that would be a criminal matter. Aside from that, freedom of religion applies equally to everyone.

Nickdfresh

03-03-2006, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by 4moreyears
If fags were to be married it would have happened a long time ago. Why does our generation have to fuck it up. Leave it the way it is. If the Fags like Nick and Steve want to fuck each other up the ass let them, but leave marriage out of it.

Oh, you're just afraid of commitment! Someday, you'll grow older and realize it's not about having anal with a different guy every weekend, you'll fall in love with a cowboy, and you won't be able to quit him you little sperm-socle licker...

Warham

03-03-2006, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by FORD
GOD doesn't have any involvement in the United States Constitution or the laws of any state. Regardless of what the Mormons in Utah think.

I think He does have something to do with our Constitution, and more generally our country's founding, FORD.

FORD

03-04-2006, 02:19 AM

Originally posted by Warham
I think He does have something to do with our Constitution, and more generally our country's founding, FORD.

So GOD was resposnible for enslaving the Africans and committing genocide against the Native Americans?

Which God is that? Are you one of the Satanists that Elvis is worried about?

Ally_Kat

03-04-2006, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by FORD

Matthew 12:30-32

30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

If what Jesus says on this board equals "blasphemy", then the appearance of the Holy Spirit here definitely would be.

Jesus says that speaking a word "against" Him shall be forgiven, not as though that's what I'm doing, but that seems to be the accusation.

And for the record, I very much DO believe that Jesus would be opposed to any laws meant to oppress a group of people. He told the parable of the "Good Samaritan" within the historical context of how the Jews felt about the Samaritans, but he didn't endorse their prejudice.

Rather the whole point of the parable was to show how stupid the prejudice was, when the Samaritan turned out to be the hero.

And of course the moral was "Love thy neighbor".

Ford, you are pretending to be Jesus and stating Jesus' political opinion, which is just your political opinion in KJV speak, for Him.

And as for Matthew 12:30-32, you do realize what the real meaning is? Let's not play Black Israelites and twist passages here; There's more to that entry. The sin against the Spirit is when you accredit evil or Satan to something God has done, like the Pharisees did. An example, for you, of someone liable to this would be Pat Robinson. It basically means that a person makes these religious rules (no dancing, no music, no internet, no helping the sick on Sabbath b/c it's "work") where even if God is present and working, they view is as Satan's work because it breaks the rules/views they personally made up. Meanwhile, God makes the rules and if He wants to "work" on Sabbath, then it's up to Him. The Holy Ghost/Spirit is just the name of God's hand that puts forth inspiration and healing in the world, just like Jesus was an extension of God in this world in a form where we would be able to accept easier. So all-in-all, the passages really mean that the great sin against the Spirit is telling God what His business is and saying anything else that even may come from Him is Satan's way.

And the Samaritian is a good parable to point out why we should beat the crap out of homosexuals, but it doesn't prove that Jesus would be down with their sex lives -- mainly because then the Trinity would be contraditory of Itself. God said no-no to homosexual sex and it's even in the Ten Commandments where sex outside marriage, which the Bible defines as man and women, is labeled a sin. So, nice try, but I don't think that's what that parable means. You can love your neighbor without approving of their Tuesday night habits.

And I'm damned sure that what Warham was talking about is that the premise of this country was started on the religious morals found in many Christian faiths. You can find evidence of it in the Constitution. It's not God's fault that man is fallible and served his fellow men a great injustice.

jhale667

03-04-2006, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Ally_Kat

And the Samaritian is a good parable to point out why we should beat the crap out of homosexuals,

We SHOULD? Please tell me that was a typo. :rolleyes: Otherwise you're killing my whole image of you, Ally. ;)

Jesus Christ

03-04-2006, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by jhale667
We SHOULD? Please tell me that was a typo. :rolleyes: Otherwise you're killing my whole image of you, Ally. ;)

As her Lord and Savior, I can assure thee that was a typo.

Warham

03-04-2006, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by FORD
So GOD was resposnible for enslaving the Africans and committing genocide against the Native Americans?

Which God is that? Are you one of the Satanists that Elvis is worried about?

Why do you think we have the freedoms that we have? Because we were founded as an athiest nation? I think not.

You remember FORD, that the Africans sold off other Africans to the slave traders. Let the blame start there first.

Let's also not forget that Native Americans also wiped out whole villages of the white men as well.

It's never quite a one way street. Custer's last stand indeed.

Nickdfresh

03-04-2006, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by Warham
Why do you think we have the freedoms that we have? Because we were founded as an athiest nation? I think not.

...

Actually, we pretty much were founded as an agnostic nation....

Ally_Kat

03-04-2006, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by jhale667
We SHOULD? Please tell me that was a typo. :rolleyes: Otherwise you're killing my whole image of you, Ally. ;)

Yes, typo. I do not believe in beating up homosexuals. And yes, I need to think slower when I type. My typos are increasing. :(

Warham

03-04-2006, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Actually, we pretty much were founded as an agnostic nation....

Hogwash.

Agnostics wouldn't be so firm in their freedoms coming from a Creator if they were wishy-washy about their beliefs...unless you believe the Founding Fathers were lying?

Ally_Kat

03-04-2006, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Actually, we pretty much were founded as an agnostic nation....

Deists aren't Agnostic

Warham

03-04-2006, 10:27 PM

I would make my point clear that some of the Founding Fathers were athiests and agnostics, but I do not believe MOST of them were.

FORD

03-04-2006, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by Warham
Why do you think we have the freedoms that we have? Because we were founded as an athiest nation? I think not.

You remember FORD, that the Africans sold off other Africans to the slave traders. Let the blame start there first.

There wouldn't have been a sale if there wasn't a market already. And the majority of the slaves were still captured by whites.

Let's also not forget that Native Americans also wiped out whole villages of the white men as well.

It's never quite a one way street. Custer's last stand indeed. [/QUOTE]

The Natives were defending themselves and their way of life. As for Custer, that stupid fuck got exactly what he deserved. He was running for President and thought that "killin some Injuns" would raise his political profile.

If I believed in reincarnation, I might think Custer was Chimpy ;)

FORD

03-04-2006, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by Warham
I would make my point clear that some of the Founding Fathers were athiests and agnostics, but I do not believe MOST of them were.

Most of them were deists, which is about one step short of agnostic. If you're a deist, you know there's a God out there, but you figure he doesn't worry much about you, so why worry about him?

Warham

03-04-2006, 10:33 PM

Let's not forget that Native Americans also sold other NAs off to the British as slaves.

No group was innocent. Let's not forget that, and I'm part NA myself.

Warham

03-04-2006, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by FORD
Most of them were deists, which is about one step short of agnostic. If you're a deist, you know there's a God out there, but you figure he doesn't worry much about you, so why worry about him?

God wouldn't create something and not worry about it.

It's a flawed way of thinking.

vheddyrmv8

03-04-2006, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Warham

Let's also not forget that Native Americans also wiped out whole villages of the white men as well.

It's never quite a one way street. Custer's last stand indeed.

That's because we attacked them. We came on the continent where the Naitive Americans have been for centuries and they offered us peace and shelter in the winter and WE ended up wiping them out. So yes, they started to attack us. I don't believe it was the Naitive Americans that wiped out thousands of women and children at The Battle Of Wounded Knee.

And even if Africans sold slaves first, how does that give us a right to take people from their homes? Would you go just because British people started selling Americans? Come on. We also were one of the last people to abolish slavery.

It's a one way street this time.

FORD

03-04-2006, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by Warham
God wouldn't create something and not worry about it.

It's a flawed way of thinking.

It would be very easy to look at all the shit that has happenned in this world in the last 5 years anc come to the conclusion that either God doesn't exist, or He's on vacation.

Not saying that's where I'm at, but I wouldn't be surprised if the number of deists and agnostics has increased lately.

Warham

03-04-2006, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by FORD
It would be very easy to look at all the shit that has happenned in this world in the last 5 years anc come to the conclusion that either God doesn't exist, or He's on vacation.

Not saying that's where I'm at, but I wouldn't be surprised if the number of deists and agnostics has increased lately.

FORD,

GOD works on His own time, not by our reckoning. Our logic is flawed, and it's not His logic.

Besides, the last five years haven't been even close to the worst in human history.

Nickdfresh

03-05-2006, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Deists aren't Agnostic

Nor were they Christians.

And they were not in fact "Deists." That's just a Disney term thrown around...

But one thing is clear, most were highly skeptical of politicized, state-sanctioned religion...

Warham

03-05-2006, 01:10 AM

Why does it matter to athiests whether this country was founded by diests, Christians, or agnostics?

Do they feel threatened by that?

Nickdfresh

03-05-2006, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by Warham
Why does it matter to athiests whether this country was founded by diests, Christians, or agnostics?

Do they feel threatened by that?

I don't know. You tell me. You're one of the people trying to make the case it was founded exclusively by Christians.

Warham

03-05-2006, 01:15 AM

I made no such case, Nick. And I'd ask that you bring up any posts where I said the founding fathers were all Christians. I'm sure you'll never find it, because it doesn't exist.

I know better.

Warham

03-05-2006, 01:18 AM

Again, I ask, do athiests feel threatened by the fact that the words 'Creator', 'Nature's God', and 'Divine Providence' are in the Declaration of Independence?

Nickdfresh

03-05-2006, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by Warham
I made no such case, Nick. And I'd ask that you bring up any posts where I said the founding fathers were all Christians.

You can't, because I owned you long ago regarding this. You once assumed that the Founding Fathers were pious Christian believers because that was what you were erroneously taught. I showed you the truth, they weren't. They weren't for the very reasons why those that taught you wanted them to be, and hid the truth from you. But you in fact at time assumed such to be the case...

I'm sure you'll never find it, because it doesn't exist.

I know better.

Oh, if I wanted to spend a day finding it, I could. Strangely enough, I remember exactly that!:)

Nickdfresh

03-05-2006, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by Warham
Again, I ask, do athiests feel threatened by the fact that the words 'Creator', 'Nature's God', and 'Divine Providence' are in the Declaration of Independence?

I wouldn't know, since I'm not an atheist...

And I don't recall any saying as much actually now that you mention it...

You may refresh my memory with some specific examples...

Warham

03-05-2006, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
You can't, because I owned you long ago regarding this. You once assumed that the Founding Fathers were pious Christian believers because that was what you were erroneously taught. I showed you the truth, they weren't. They weren't for the very reasons why those that taught you wanted them to be, and hid the truth from you. But you in fact at time assumed such to be the case...

Not so fast, Nick. ;)

Posted 11-24-04 at 6:47 pm by Warham, in response to Pink Spider...

'What do you mean 'put their god'? There's no one God anyone tried to put into it. It's not referring to the Hebrew God, the Christian God, the Muslim God, or Santa Claus. It's just God. Just like the Declaration declares that the Creator gave us certain unalienable rights.

Interestingly enough, the original Pledge also made no mention of the United States. This was also changed later. The original went:

"I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

I suppose some were disappointed with that as well.'

Oh, if I wanted to spend a day finding it, I could. Strangely enough, I remember exactly that!:)

You can't find it because it's not there.

I just pulled a quote that I made a year and a half ago where I mentioned the Declaration speaks of A Creator, not the God of the Bible. It was actually in a conversation about the Pledge of Allegiance, and I was comparing the two.

Do your best. ;)

Warham

03-05-2006, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I wouldn't know, since I'm not an atheist...

And I don't recall any saying as much actually now that you mention it...

You may refresh my memory with some specific examples...

I never said you were an athiest. I believe you are an agnostic, by your own admission.

I'm asking a question to the general audience here. :)

Nickdfresh

03-05-2006, 01:44 AM

And I'm asking for specific examples..:)

Okay, being an agnostic (and I am, you're right, but I fall closer to a believer than an atheist), I am hardly a "fence sitter." It's merely another perspective that is critical of both mindless believers, and of atheists masking their arrogance in the skepticism of science, which is a religion all its own to some extent...

Warham

03-05-2006, 01:35 PM

You are most correct there, my agnostic friend. :)

Ally_Kat

03-07-2006, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Nor were they Christians.

And they were not in fact "Deists." That's just a Disney term thrown around...

But one thing is clear, most were highly skeptical of politicized, state-sanctioned religion...

I suggest you go read some of their writings/letters. For people who had a belief structure like you're suggesting, they sure did talk about God in a positive light much and telling their friends Godspeed.

Ally_Kat

03-07-2006, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by FORD
Most of them were deists, which is about one step short of agnostic. If you're a deist, you know there's a God out there, but you figure he doesn't worry much about you, so why worry about him?

Funny kind of not worrying about Him when Deists pray.

Nickdfresh

03-07-2006, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
I suggest you go read some of their writings/letters. For people who had a belief structure like you're suggesting, they sure did talk about God in a positive light much and telling their friends Godspeed.

Doesn't mean they actually believed/disbelieved in God. That was a colloquial term for the masses to digest such as "In God We Trust," which has been wildly misinterpreted as wholly religious in it's tone. But their problems weren't with existence of a God, they (being products of the Enlightenment and the Age of Reason) were more disposed to be against the abuse of state-sanctioned religion more than anything. But there is no singular term, nor litmus test, which encompasses all of the beliefs/disbeliefs of the Founding Fathers. Their thoughts on a God in itself are irrelevant to my point...