french govn. as balls..

[franksters]

The sikh community in france are freaking out because the govn. force them to remove their turban for the picture on official document ie: driver license, passport ect...

But the sikh won... France ruled yesterday that it is not illigal for them to ask to remove it for the picture, I guess no one will remove it.

Atr least there is no more religious signs in school...

[FORD]

Since Sikhs always wear a turban, what would be the point in making them remove it for a drivers license photo?

If they get pulled over by the gendarmes, they're going to match the photo on the ID much easier with a turban than without.

Now in states and countries with women wearing burkas, that's a little different, since you can't drive with a veil over your face anyway.

[franksters]

I know, but what we have been seeing here in canada are policeman with a turban!!!

Is that ok???

now just last week the sihks won their debate about wearing the kirpan
in schools (small dagger) in the supreme court of canada, Does this mean that sihks who are in jail will be able to wear it???

[Nickdfresh]

Well, Sikhs have problems with both Muslims and Hindus, so you should have a common ground with them...

[franksters]

I hear you, but don't you agree with me that if anyone come to our country or any country as a matter of fact, should simply live and go by the local standards?

like is I go overthere I won't start to stir shit about whatever...

no what I mean.

[FORD]

Originally posted by franksters
I know, but what we have been seeing here in canada are policeman with a turban!!!

Is that ok???

now just last week the sihks won their debate about wearing the kirpan
in schools (small dagger) in the supreme court of canada, Does this mean that sihks who are in jail will be able to wear it???

Knives and turbans are entirely different things. Nobody's ever been killed with a turban to my knowledge. Though unfortunately, in the post 9-11 hysteria there were people killed for wearing turbans, by ignorant shitheads who don't know an Arab from a Hindu from a Sikh.

Religious freedom within the prison system can sometimes be a tricky matter as well. Bibles and Korans are easy enough, but things have been a little more difficult for Native Americans, who need things like feathers, sweat lodges, and a ceremonial pipe (Chanunpah) for their spiritual practices. I think they would probably draw the line at knives though.

It's not like the Indians get a buffalo hunt inside, so they don't get to bring their bow & arrows.

[Angel]

Originally posted by franksters
I hear you, but don't you agree with me that if anyone come to our country or any country as a matter of fact, should simply live and go by the local standards?

like is I go overthere I won't start to stir shit about whatever...

no what I mean.

Frank, the people that come to Canada ARE living by our standards. We believe in cultural diversity - I know you guys in Quebec think you're the only ones with any "cultural" differences, but give your fucking head a shake.

I don't give a fuck if the RC next to me wears a turban or a feather up his ass, as long as he does his fucking job. It's no different than a catholic wearing a fucking crucifix for fuck sake.

The dagger I DO have different opinions on, because of the shit that went down in Vancouver years ago (when Ujal Dosanjh almost got killed).

Now, either start acting like a fucking Canadian, or go South. :(

(Yes, I am PMS'ing today before you ask!) ;)

[scamper]

Originally posted by Angel

Now, either start acting like a fucking Canadian, or go South. :(



Where's that Canadian tolerance?

[Jérôme Frenchise]

The French government hasn't got what I'd call balls. BTW, it's the worst gov' we've had since Vichy... They share a lot of "values" with Pétain's gangsters, mainly concerning reimforced police presence (speed control, mostly, you know, easy money - I've been had several times personally), their support of civil denonciation and, globally, the selling of State to finance sharks, among other perverse misdeeds...
So, let's forget about those dirty thieves. :)

As far as religion, it's been constitutionally separated from State (then from State schools) since 1905. Any student or State employees (but most of the time in the private sector too) have to leave religious signs, opinions and rites at the door.
The current government tends to fawn on Christians, Jews, and Muslims for sneaky electoral motives; Sikhs are a more than negligible fringe of French society, so it's cheap for them to show firmness towards them...

Secularism remains a key concept here. A founding principle, really.
In my opinion, the farther religion is set from public affairs, the better. ALL beliefs are necessarily linked to erratic views. It should never quit a private sphere, therefore be kept away from common interests.

Religion in command will lead to dictature. See islamic countries in particular. :rolleyes:
The USA have got closer to dictature too since Bush Jr's (aka the chimp) election. Really. To avoid rude words, I will not say what I think of a president who mentions his god or the Bible every two minutes. You guess. :)

[Angel]

Originally posted by scamper
Where's that Canadian tolerance?

As per previous post, it's a PMS day... deal with it.

[franksters]

Well Angel, I embrace all cultural differences, I think that what bugs me is that if my wife and I travel to those countries ( iran saoudie arabia, india, ect...) we will conform to their way of doing things, and unfortunatly I don't see this happening here.

If you work at mcdonald for an exemple the outfit is blue, you don't like it, go to a&w , theirs is brown...

The military, rcmp, police, fireman, ect... is simple you cut your hair, you wear the official hat and boots, a dagger is not part of the uniform, neither a turban ect...

maybe i'm just jealous that if I go in these field I will need to conform to the uniform...

1 the crucifix was remove from schools class cause it offended some minority who are not catholics...... fine

2 The prayers before national assembly was removed cause it offended people from other religion......... fine

3 Stores and everything is open on sunday, because of business decision and to satisfy a growing demand............fine

1 Try to go anywhere with your crucifix ( like a BIG one that everybody would see) tell me the reactions???

2 When was the last time you wanted to pray in a public place?

3 And finally tell your boss you can't work on sunday because of your religion, see what he says....

Well you know what, we are all pussies, and no one is there for our rights, religion freedom should stay at home and in worship places,

Because as every other nation or minorities are offended with my religious signs, i'm offended with theirs.

A couple years ago they wanted to remove the cross from the mount-royal ( montain in montreal ) they didn't thank god. but stuff like that really gets me pissed off.

[scamper]

Originally posted by Angel
As per previous post, it's a PMS day... deal with it.

oops, my bad

[Angel]

Frank, I'm an atheist. I would never pray in public, or private for that matter. :)

What is the problem with the RCMP's wearing turbans? We wouldn't have that great character from Chilly Beach without them!

http://www.chillybeach.com/chillynew/root.html

Believe me, where I work, if I said I needed a day off for religious purposes, it would be granted. Very big on Human Rights here, and we have a multi-cultural office.

The turban is a part of THEIR uniform.

I agree, we do conform to other countries cultures when we visit them. Isn't it wonderful to know you live in a country where visitors can be themselves (to a certain degree)?

[Jérôme Frenchise]

Originally posted by Angel
Believe me, where I work, if I said I needed a day off for religious purposes, it would be granted. Very big on Human Rights here, and we have a multi-cultural office.

Angel, I know you're answering Franksters here, but... WTF have religions got to do with human rights? They're meant to alienate human minds, aren't they? Well, IMO. :cool:

[franksters]

Originally posted by Angel


I agree, we do conform to other countries cultures when we visit them. Isn't it wonderful to know you live in a country where visitors can be themselves (to a certain degree)?

So what is good for daddy isn't for mommy???

All I say is Be FREE at home, can't you get that: AT HOME!!!

Angel, I don't mean to rub you the wrong way, but I think we have to wake up on some of these things...

Here they can practice their religion in peace, they are free to build whatever they want to pray in, no one will discriminate them because of their religion and so forth, I think that should do it...

enough is enough.

[Angel]

...and they can wear what they want.

After all, we let you keep your French language, didn't we?

(Just kidding, moi papan et francais aussie) I hope I just said my dad is french too!

PMS should be over tomorrow, my dear. ;)

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by FORD
Since Sikhs always wear a turban, what would be the point in making them remove it for a drivers license photo?




IDENTIFICATION, you liberal panty waste!!!


:rolleyes:

[franksters]

Originally posted by Angel
...and they can wear what they want.

After all, we let you keep your French language, didn't we?

(Just kidding, moi papan et francais aussie) I hope I just said my dad is french too!

PMS should be over tomorrow, my dear. ;)

it's all cool Angie, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it the end I know I'm right!;)

[Angel]

I'll forgive you changing my name, this time. ;)

However, I still know that my belief system is the correct one, and that there is no right or wrong when it comes to matters of opinion. :D

Roth on, bro!

:angel:

[Angel]

Originally posted by ELVIS
IDENTIFICATION, you liberal panty waste!!!


:rolleyes:

TURBANS DON'T COVER FACES!!!

:rolleyes:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by FORD


Now in states and countries with women wearing burkas, that's a little different, since you can't drive with a veil over your face anyway.

Why not?

You don't drive with your nose or mouth.

[Angel]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Why not?

You don't drive with your nose or mouth.

We like them to be able to SEE Sesh. :)

No problem in countries/states where Burka's are law. Women aren't allowed to drive in the extreme muslim areas.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Why not?

You don't drive with your nose or mouth.

Burkas cover the entire face, eyes included. The material is thin enough to see through it if you're walking around, since the odds are you're only following your husband anyway.

But driving? I don't think so.

Not every Muslim country wears the full burka, of course. Some veils leave the eyes open, so those should be up for negotiations.

I just don't see the point in getting all uptight about it (like Elvis did) because these people ordinarily wear their turbans, or veils, anyway. So if identification is an issue, take the picture of how this individual is going to look 98% of the time.

Worst case scenario is that he'll be wearing a different colored towel on his head from one week to the next. I think the cops will be able to figure that out. Even in France.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by FORD
Not every Muslim country wears the full burka, of course. Some veils leave the eyes open, so those should be up for negotiations.


Those are the ones I see here most often so that's what I thought you were talking about.