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BigBadBrian
05-25-2006, 09:14 AM
In cold blood
Jack Murtha condemns Marines
May 25, 2006
by W. Thomas Smith, Jr.

Retired Marine Colonel and serving Congressman Jack Murtha (D-PA) has sold his soul: Not to the devil, but to his constituency. And as a former Marine, I urge him now to do the only honorable thing: relinquish his sword and his Eagle, Globe, and Anchor. At the very least, he should apologize to the Marine Corps and the American people for making an utterly outlandish statement in an attempt to keep the fire hot in the cut-and-run camp, of which he is a primary stoker.

At a press conference earlier this month, Murtha stated, “they [a squad of U.S. Marines from Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines operating in Iraq] killed innocent civilians in cold blood. And that's what the report is going to tell.” He was referring of course to the November 2005 action at Haditha, a remote farming community in Iraq’s Al Anbar Province, where Marines allegedly killed a number of innocent Iraqi civilians – including women and children – following an ambush launched against the Americans.

Keep in mind, “in cold blood” means “deliberately or cruelly; ruthlessly, showing no concern or passion, a complete lack of emotion.” In other words, killing without heart or mercy. How Murtha, who was not present with the Marines at the time of the action, purports to know how the men involved felt or what they actually did is beyond me.


Here’s what we know for a fact:

On the morning of November 19, a Marine Humvee was struck by a roadside bomb, killing Lance Corporal Miguel Terrazas. Then, insurgents are said to have opened fire on the Marines from several directions. The Marines counterattacked. Several enemy combatants were killed, and apparently innocent civilians were, as well.

Within hours, I received an e-mailed press release from Multi-National Force West at Camp Fallujah, Iraq, stating: “A Marine assigned to Regimental Combat Team 2, 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward), was killed in action when his vehicle was attacked with an improvised explosive device attack while conducting combat operations against the enemy in the vicinity of Haditha.”

The following day, I received a second release from the 2nd Marine Division at Camp Blue Diamond in Ramadi, a portion of which reads: “A U.S. Marine and 15 Iraqi civilians were killed yesterday from the blast of a roadside bomb in Haditha. Immediately following the bombing, gunmen attacked the convoy with small arms fire. Iraqi Army soldiers and Marines returned fire killing eight insurgents and wounding another.”

Just how the civilians were actually killed has been the subject of a series of investigations. Some published reports indicate there were more than 15 civilians killed, including a three-year-old girl, and that they were killed as a result of raids on at least three houses believed to be harboring insurgents. A preliminary investigation was completed in March, and three Marine officers have since been relieved of command.

What we do not know are the particulars of what actually happened and why: and we won’t know until a more thorough investigation is completed in the coming weeks, followed by possible courts martial of those involved.

A recent editorial in National Review Online pegged the Murtha condemnation accurately: “The military’s investigation of those claims isn’t finished yet, but Murtha apparently can’t wait for all the facts to emerge before damning the accused.” And an editorial in The Washington Times says the accusation is “not only irresponsible, but an egregious violation of ethical conduct by a sitting congressman.”

Indeed, but how could he? How could a retired Marine officer possibly forget, not only from whence he came, but that all Americans – including his fellow Marines who are performing the most dangerous missions on the ends of the earth – are innocent until proven guilty.

Now, this is not easy for me to write. After all, Murtha spent 37 years in the Corps, starting out as an enlisted rifleman, becoming a drill instructor, later an officer. He served in Vietnam, was highly decorated, and ultimately retired as a Reserve colonel.

Murtha’s service to our country should be respected. But unless he retracts his statement and issues a public apology to the Corps, perhaps his title (Marine) should be stripped, even if the Marines involved are ultimately found guilty.

This has nothing to do with blind obedience to a cause on either side of the political fence, or lemming-like fealty to either party. It has everything to do with being “always faithful” to the Corps, respecting our Marines in the field, and above all acknowledging the fact that the Marines involved are accorded the presumption of innocence until the Uniform Code of Military Justice deems otherwise.

I’m not making excuses for those who may have done something incomprehensibly dark in the heat of battle. I pray they did not. If anyone is found to be guilty of committing war crimes, they should be punished; and if found guilty I am confident they will be.

But that is not the case as of this writing. It was not the case when Murtha accused unconvicted Marines of killing “in cold blood.”

When I was a young Marine-recruit, I was taught there is no such thing as an ex-Marine: Marines are either active, reserve, retired, former, or dead; thus the adage, “Once a Marine, always a Marine.”

The only ex-Marines were those whom did not make it through boot camp; or as we liked to say those not packing the gear to serve in the Corps. The only other way for a Marine to become an ex-Marine would be to shame or denigrate the Corps in such a way that he would essentially be excommunicated, which – it pains me to say – is what Colonel Murtha should be.

Link (http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/WThomasSmithJr/2006/05/25/198678.html)

LoungeMachine
05-25-2006, 09:30 AM
Going on another op-ed rant, Brie?


Not getting enough love?

LMAO

FORD
05-25-2006, 09:46 AM
This guy is a fucking hypocrite.

If you shoot women and children in the back of the head while they are praying, it is COLD BLOODED MURDER.

No excuses. I don't give a fuck who you are or what uniform you wear.

Now if you want an explanation as to WHY someone would snap like that, perhaps the investigation should be into how these guys are programmed for war in the first place.

LoungeMachine
05-25-2006, 09:49 AM
A hypocritical op-ed piece [of shit] from the Right?

What were the odds?

BigBadBrian
05-25-2006, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Going on another op-ed rant, Brie?




I know you didn't read the piece since it didn't have any pictures.

Try and keep up, though.

:gulp:

BigBadBrian
05-25-2006, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by FORD
This guy is a fucking hypocrite.

If you shoot women and children in the back of the head while they are praying, it is COLD BLOODED MURDER.

No excuses. I don't give a fuck who you are or what uniform you wear.

Now if you want an explanation as to WHY someone would snap like that, perhaps the investigation should be into how these guys are programmed for war in the first place.

Civilians are bound to be killed when the enemy is hiding among them.

Sorry, that's just war.

Besides, it seems as if you are jumping to conclusions and behaving like this traitorous piece of shit Murtha.

Is that right?

LoungeMachine
05-25-2006, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian


Besides, it seems as if you are jumping to conclusions and behaving like this traitorous piece of shit Murtha.




You're a fucking moron.

:rolleyes:

LoungeMachine
05-25-2006, 01:09 PM
Associated Press
Update 1: Marine Corps to Probe Iraq Civilian Deaths
By ROBERT BURNS , 05.25.2006, 12:13 PM



The top Marine general said Thursday that he feared, based on two recent cases of alleged killings of civilians in Iraq, that some Marines could become "indifferent to the loss of a human life." His office announced that he was enroute to Iraq to reinforce the Corps' standards of behavior in combat.

"We do not employ force just for the sake of employing force. We use lethal force only when justified, proportional and, most importantly, lawful," Gen. Michael W. Hagee wrote in a statement issued by his office.

His statement and the announcement of his trip to Iraq came just hours after the Marine command in Iraq disclosed a criminal investigation into allegations that an unspecified number of Marines killed an Iraqi civilian west of Baghdad on April 26. Iraqis made the charge during a meeting with Marine officers on May 1.

"Many of our Marines have been involved in life or death combat or have witnessed the loss of their fellow Marines, and the effects of these events can be numbing," Hagee wrote. "There is the risk of becoming indifferent to the loss of a human life, as well as bringing dishonor upon ourselves."

A spokesman for Hagee, Col. David Lapan, said the general had scheduled the trip long ago but in light of the latest allegations he decided to use the visit as an opportunity to reinforce Marine Corps values and standards.

"To a Marine, honor is more than just honesty; it means having uncompromising personal integrity and being accountable for all actions," Hagee said in his statement. He urged all Marines to have the moral courage to "do the `right thing' in the face of danger or pressure from other Marines."

He referred to "recent serious allegations about actions of Marines in combat," but he did not specifically cite the two cases - one from last November and the other in April - of alleged killings of civilians.

In Wednesday's announcement of the latest criminal investigation, Marine officials said a preliminary investigation by Multinational Force-West, headed by Marine Maj. Gen. Richard C. Zilmer, had found enough information to recommend an investigation by the Naval Criminal Investigation Service.

The statement provided no details about the alleged killing, including either the gender or age of the victim. It said "several service members" from the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, which is based in the Fallujah area about 40 miles west of Baghdad, were suspected of involvement. They were "removed from operations" and sent back to the United States pending the results of the criminal investigation, it said.

A criminal investigation also is under way in connection with Marines from another battalion who are accused of killing at least 15 civilians, including women and children, last November in Haditha, 140 miles northwest of Baghdad.

The military initially described the Haditha encounter as an ambush during a joint U.S.-Iraqi patrol that involved a roadside bombing in which a Marine died, followed by a firefight. However, residents of the neighborhood maintained that only U.S. forces were shooting after the explosion.

Videotape aired by an Arab television station showed images purportedly taken in the aftermath of the encounter: a bloody bedroom floor, bullet holes in walls and bodies of women and children. An Iraqi human rights group called for an investigation of what it described as another deadly mistake that had harmed civilians.

The military began its administrative investigation to review whether the Marines involved had lied about what happened. A House committee will review the military's investigation next month.

On May 17, Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., a decorated former Marine, said the toll in the Haditha attack was far worse than originally reported and that U.S. troops killed innocent women and children "in cold blood." He said that nearly twice as many people were killed than first reported, maintaining that U.S. forces are "overstretched and overstressed" by the war in Iraq.

Last August, the Marine Corps announced a criminal investigation into the death of the cousin of Iraq's ambassador to Washington, Samir al-Sumaidaie, who was shot and killed during a search of his home in Haditha on June 25.

No announcement has been made about the findings of the investigation.

LoungeMachine
05-25-2006, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I know you didn't read the piece since it didn't have any pictures.

Try and keep up, though.

:gulp:

I didn't read the "piece" because I don't waste my time reading your op-ed spam bullshit, you moron.

I Dumped your other 2 threads this morning for lack of any real content or debate.

I see you still haven't posted anything from your own feeble mind in this one either. Just relying on others to have a reason to start threads.

Don't be surprised when I flush this one too, Brie.

FORD
05-25-2006, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Civilians are bound to be killed when the enemy is hiding among them.

Sorry, that's just war.

Civilians being killed accidentally is war. Civillians being specifically targeted is murder.


Besides, it seems as if you are jumping to conclusions and behaving like this traitorous piece of shit Murtha.

Is that right?

Murtha was a Marine for 37 fucking years. He knows what it's like to be in combat, and I'm presuming he knows what it's like to kill someone in combat. He also knows where you should draw the line.

These animals slaughtering civillians dishonor their uniform AND their country. And so do bitches like you who defend them.

EAT MY ASSHOLE
05-25-2006, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I didn't read the "piece" because I don't waste my time reading your op-ed spam bullshit, you moron.

I Dumped your other 2 threads this morning for lack of any real content or debate.

I see you still haven't posted anything from your own feeble mind in this one either. Just relying on others to have a reason to start threads.

Don't be surprised when I flush this one too, Brie.

Oh my God...I just realised Lounge Machine is in fact just one of FORD's many aliases...

LoungeMachine
05-25-2006, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
Oh my God...I just realised Lounge Machine is in fact just one of FORD's many aliases...

Turtle Fucker says What???:D

jcook11
05-25-2006, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
Oh my God...I just realised Lounge Machine is in fact just one of FORD's many aliases...

BWAAAAHAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAA!:D

DEMON CUNT
05-29-2006, 02:35 AM
Big Bland Brian would sure shit his pants if foreign solders broke into his house and started slaughtering his family.

Or would he say "Sorry, that's just war." with a shrug of his shoulders?

What about the people that died in 911? Is that just war?

What a dummy fascist.

binnie
05-29-2006, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by FORD
This guy is a fucking hypocrite.

If you shoot women and children in the back of the head while they are praying, it is COLD BLOODED MURDER.

No excuses. I don't give a fuck who you are or what uniform you wear.

Now if you want an explanation as to WHY someone would snap like that, perhaps the investigation should be into how these guys are programmed for war in the first place.

Absolutely.

Big Train
05-29-2006, 02:54 PM
It seems to me everyone on both sides here is way down the road of opinion with very little fact to support them. When someone says "in cold blood", there has to be intent of that. Secondly, is there any actual video taken DURING the events that would establish whether they were slaughtering as opposed to just shooting in the general direction of where the shots at them where coming from (the articles cites fire from multiple directions). If it was collateral damage, which is a tragedy no doubt, that doesn't constitute cold blood. If they kicked the doors in and shot them all in the back, that IS cold blood.

Seems to me nobody knows either way at this point or probably ever will.

At any rate, the military is being held to a extremely high standard already. Nobody interviews the Russians, the Chinese or any other government to this level of scruntiny or with the level of cooperation given by our forces. I'm leaning towards the benefit of the doubt unless substancial evidence surfaces.

blueturk
05-29-2006, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Civilians are bound to be killed when the enemy is hiding among them.

Sorry, that's just war.

Besides, it seems as if you are jumping to conclusions and behaving like this traitorous piece of shit Murtha.

Is that right?

Sorry, that's just war? WTF! You sound like Bush himself. Of course, unlike that "traitorous piece of shit Murtha", Bush has no idea what war is like, except flying over Alabama defending that state from the Viet Cong at tremendous taxpayer expense.

thome
05-29-2006, 03:12 PM
Those I rak ers are crack ups, strap a baby to their chest and a bomb on their back.

Reminds me of when the Ayatollah sent 40,000 unarmed children a day into the
fire zone of saddams men and after a week the I rak ers run out of bullets and mortars and fled the country ...really worth defending
those crack-me-up fanatics .

Irak and Iran two funny countries jus lookin for a good time...

Irak and Irans contribution the world history and the cause of peace and freedom and human rites is well documented and all those toys
they make for the children of the world....I'll go look it up lets see

Good thins Irak has done.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....................(chirping)?.................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............................................hmmm must be my lack of skills with the googling?.....................................nope still nothing?.......................................... .................................................-0-

binnie
05-29-2006, 04:11 PM
How does that justify killing civilians?

thome
05-29-2006, 05:24 PM
I do guess those 200,000+ or so children 6-15 yrs old the irakers killed
were in uniform, so i guess nothing is justifyed intrying to stabalize
the mid-east.

Who do you lay the blame on, the soldier defending himself or the
person putting children in harms way and then blameing the soldier.

Saddam released all of this dynamite and weapons of mass terror
into the hands of nutbags, just for such a occasion ,tons of it.

The ability to blow IED is huge over there.

I blame- that guy- first last and always.

DEMON CUNT
05-29-2006, 07:22 PM
Dude, you don't make no sense.

4moreyears
05-29-2006, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Big Bland Brian would sure shit his pants if foreign solders broke into his house and started slaughtering his family.

Or would he say "Sorry, that's just war." with a shrug of his shoulders?

What about the people that died in 911? Is that just war?

What a dummy fascist.

Reading is a skill. Brian said theenemy is mixing with civillians. I do not think Brian will become a terrorist to justify getting his family killed.

DEMON CUNT
05-30-2006, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by 4moreyears
Reading is a skill. Brian said theenemy is mixing with civillians. I do not think Brian will become a terrorist to justify getting his family killed.

So is typing.

Blah Blah Brian is an extremist. Just like the terrorists.

You neocons are such simple folks. No wonder you are so easily fooled.

He does not need to be a terrorist fall victim to violence. His family could simply find themselves in the line of fire. Such as the folks in NY did on that day...

BigBadBrian
05-30-2006, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I didn't read the "piece" because I don't waste my time reading your op-ed spam bullshit, you moron.

I Dumped your other 2 threads this morning for lack of any real content or debate.

I see you still haven't posted anything from your own feeble mind in this one either. Just relying on others to have a reason to start threads.

Don't be surprised when I flush this one too, Brie.

I wouldn't be surprised.

You seem to have no desire for conflicting debate in this column. You must take it personally when everyone you argue with humiliates you.

Hell, this forum was better off when FORD was editting every other post.

:gulp: