True Musical Geniuses

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Not just people you really like. People who should go down in history.

This sounds stupid, but I'm gonna say Smokey Robinson.

Whether you like that style of music or not, you've got to admit what he did was incredible. No only was he the leader of "The Miracles", he also wrote many many songs for just about every other atrist on the Motown label, he produced most of the songs he wrote (and, thats A LOT of hits), he did a lot of business stuff with Berry Gordy-all in a relatively short space of time.

[binnie]

Ok, off the top of my head...

David Bowie

Jimi Hendrix

Jimmy Page (I know you aren't gonna agree SP)

Robert Johnson

Trent Reznor

Prince (I know he's made some shit, but not many people blend so many styles)

Miles Davis

John Coltrane

[binnie]

BTW, fantastic idea for a thread!


Although "genius" gets banded around very liberally by the music thread. I once read it used to describe the Stereophonics.......

[Coyote]

Frank Zappa

Quincy Jones

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by binnie
Ok, off the top of my head...

David Bowie

Jimi Hendrix

Jimmy Page (I know you aren't gonna agree SP)

Robert Johnson

Trent Reznor

Prince (I know he's made some shit, but not many people blend so many styles)

Miles Davis

John Coltrane

Bowie and Prince-certainly. They are 2 people who have varied their style so much in their lifetimes.

And, the jazz folks go without saying.

[binnie]

I'm actually gonna add Rick Rubin to my list, producers are often as important........

[Shaun Ponsonby]

To prove my point about Smokey Robinson, here are the albums that he himself recorded whilst writing, producing and doing business for other acts on the Motown label...


Hi, We're The Miracles (Tamla 1961)

Cookin' With The Miracles (Tamla 1962)

I'll Try Something New (Tamla 1962)

The Fabulous Miracles (Tamla 1963)

Recorded Live: On Stage (Tamla 1963)

Christmas With The Miracles (Tamla 1963)

The Miracles Doin-Mickey's Monkey'(Tamla 1963)

Going To A Go-Go (Tamla 1965)

I Like It Like That (Tamla 1965)

Away We A Go-Go (Tamla 1966)

Make It Happen (Tamla 1967)

Special Occasion (Tamla 1968)

Live! (Tamla 1969)

Time Out For Smokey Robinson And The Miracles (Tamla 1969)

Four In Blue (Tamla 1969)

What Love Has Joined Together (Tamla 1970)

A Pocket Full Of Miracles (Tamla 1970)

The Season For Miracles (Tamla 1970)

One Dozen Roses (Tamla 1971)

Flying High Together (Tamla 1972)

Renaissance (Tamla 1973)

Smokey (Tamla 1973)

Do It Baby (Tamla 1974)

Pure Smokey (Tamla 1974)

Don't Cha Love It (Tamla 1975)

City Of Angels (Tamla 1975)

A Quiet Storm (Tamla 1975)

The Power Of Music (Tamla 1976)

Smokey's Family Robinson (Tamla 1976)

Love Crazy (Columbia 1977)

Deep In My Soul (Tamla 1977)

The Miracles (Columbia 1978)

Big Time (Tamla 1977)

Love Breeze (Tamla 1978)

Smokin' (Tamla 1978)

Where There's Smoke (Tamla 1979)

Warm Thoughts (Tamla 1980)

Being With You (Tamla 1981)

Yes It's You Lady (Tamla 1982)

Touch The Sky (Tamla 1983)

Blame It On Love (Tamla 1983)

Essar (Tamla 1984)

Smoke Signals (Tamla 1985)

One Heartbeat (Motown 1987)

Love, Smokey (Motown 1990)

Double Good Everything (SBK 1991)

Intimate (Motown 1999)

Food for the Spirit (CNR Records 2004)

[Mr. Vengeance]

Absolutely, Prince is way at the top of this list. The sheer amount of music he creates is mind boggling. Very much like Zappa in that respect.

I'm going to add Johnny Cash to the list for the songs and their simplicity. He also could do ANY song and make it pure Cash.

[sadaist]

I'm more concerned with the ones who are going down in history & shouldn't like Kurt Cobain.

But I think Jon Anderson & Chris Squire are underrated. Then possibly Rick Allen for doing what he did on the drums after losing an arm. Incredible.

[sadaist]

Oh yeah...the Beastie Boys. NO SLEEP TILL!!!.......BROOKLYN!!!

Really breaking the stereotype of black-only rap. And also mixing in guitars and drums rather than just a mixing board. Started a whole new genre. Not one that I a especially enjoy, but one nonetheless.

[Matt White]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
Not just people you really like. People who should go down in history.

This sounds stupid, but I'm gonna say Smokey Robinson.



Bob Dylan has called Smokey the "GRATEST AMERICAN POET"

So...yeah...he qualifies....

Stevie Wonder too.............................

[Terry]

Sometimes killer rock stars don't necessarily cross the realm into musical genius.

Two musical geniuses I can easily name off the top of my head are:

Frank Zappa

Jimi Hendrix

Jimmy Page? BRILLIANT COMPOSER. Musical genius? Maybe...

Prince is, without a doubt, a musical genius.

Stevie Wonder, agreed.

Miles Davis, agreed.

Beastie Boys? Mmmmmm...no.

Dylan is a brilliant lyricist.

I do agree that the term 'genius' clearly is applied to many who, IMO, don't deserve it.

[rustoffa]

Pretty good list.

A few more.

Harry Nilsson

Brian Wilson

Carole King

Buddy Holly

[Matt White]

LES PAUL

[Terry]

Originally posted by rustoffa
Pretty good list.

A few more.

Harry Nilsson

Brian Wilson

Carole King

Buddy Holly

Yeah, I'd include Wilson, agreed.

Holly was brilliant, too.

Nilsson and King I can't say, as I really haven't heard enough of their stuff. Have heard a BIT of king, but virtually nothing of Harry at all...

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by Terry
Yeah, I'd include Wilson, agreed.

Holly was brilliant, too.

Nilsson and King I can't say, as I really haven't heard enough of their stuff. Have heard a BIT of king, but virtually nothing of Harry at all...

IMO, Nilsson was like a slightly more sane Roky Erickson. I should take alot of heat for that. :D He wrote alot of songs, and could tackle any genre.

King's just a songwriter's songwriter. I've got an old compilation of Punk bands covering her Tapestry album somewhere. LMFAO....I think JFA did smackwater jack!

[Wawazat]

Wayne Coyne

[binnie]

Isn't it interesting that, on a hard rock website, most of the guys were picking out don't fit into that style of music?


How about

Tony Iommi?

What he did is still being repeated to this day........

[knerken]

Michael Jackson.
Even though he fucks small boys for inspiration, his music is genius!

"Thriller", "Off The Wall" and "Bad" are brilliant masterpieces.

"Dangerous", "Blood On The Dancefloor" and "Invincible" are not as good as T, OTW and B, but still great!

[Sugar-Dave]

Edward Van Halen, Freddie Mercury and Les Paul

[Mr Badguy]

Just about everyone who has ever been in Yes.

When they`re not making Yes albums then they`re doing solo albums.

Check out Jon Anderson`s "Olias of Sunhillow", probably the strangest "rock" album I`ve got.

Nothing on it sounds like traditional rock instruments and it`s mind boggling that it is the work of one man and a home recording studio.

[binnie]

Originally posted by knerken
Michael Jackson.
Even though he fucks small boys for inspiration, his music is genius!

"Thriller", "Off The Wall" and "Bad" are brilliant masterpieces.

"Dangerous", "Blood On The Dancefloor" and "Invincible" are not as good as T, OTW and B, but still great!

mmmmm, gonna have to disagree.

Very talented, yes.

Genius - no


I don't think there is enough depth there for him to be called a genius....

[m_dixon1984]

I'm gonna add...

Leonard Cohen
Willie Dixon
Buddy Guy
John Mayall

...before this thread gets taken over with Rock and Roll heroes.

M

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by knerken
Michael Jackson.
Even though he fucks small boys for inspiration, his music is genius!

"Thriller", "Off The Wall" and "Bad" are brilliant masterpieces.

"Dangerous", "Blood On The Dancefloor" and "Invincible" are not as good as T, OTW and B, but still great!


I'm inclined to agree, but, most of "Thriller" and "Off The Wall" was written by Rod Temperton, and a few others. I think MJ only wrote 3 songs on "Off The Wall", and 4 on "Thriller".

However, considering that (to my knowledge) he doesn't play an instrument, and yet managed to write so many massive hits with string and horn arrangements...

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by Mr Badguy
Just about everyone who has ever been in Yes.

When they`re not making Yes albums then they`re doing solo albums.

Check out Jon Anderson`s "Olias of Sunhillow", probably the strangest "rock" album I`ve got.

Nothing on it sounds like traditional rock instruments and it`s mind boggling that it is the work of one man and a home recording studio.


Indeed...

The best thing about Yes is that they've never had weak musicians.


Here's one-Neal Morse. Even though he quit being in a band to do religious prog (usually with Mike Portnoy on drums), he varies his stuff so much and is so consistent that I think he should certainly go in the category. He's only made one bad album, which could be blamed on the fact that whilst making it, his newborn daughter was close to death.

[binnie]

Ahhh, you mention "genius" and all the prog fans come out of the woodwork!

Lets have someone from the opposite spectrum,


all of The Ramones!

[binnie]

Lou Reed.....

[Shaun Ponsonby]

The Ramones?

Seriously, BIG difference. Prog musicians HAVE to be at almost genius.

[Redballjets88]

the ramones? if you are going to go that route use Iggy Pop or the New York Dolls

[binnie]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
The Ramones?

Seriously, BIG difference. Prog musicians HAVE to be at almost genius.

I like prog, so don't get me wrong.


Sometimes genius is about songs, and The Ramones have plenty that'll last forever. Musicianship wise, The Ramones are genius in a minimalist way. Every 4/4 punk band after owes a lot to them.....

[Redballjets88]

and the Ramones owe a lot to the dolls bc the dolls basically created the NYC punk scene

[binnie]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
and the Ramones owe a lot to the dolls bc the dolls basically created the NYC punk scene

Without question, the Dolls were awesome.

However, The Ramones really set the template by taking the glam out of the Dolls.

Everyone owes a lot to an influence somewhere along the line....

[Redballjets88]

but we are talking about geniuses and inevators here with no nydolls there is no ramones/sex pistols/clash

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Not innovators

GENIUSES

[Redballjets88]

in a way to be an innovator you have to have some sort of genius

[binnie]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
but we are talking about geniuses and inevators here with no nydolls there is no ramones/sex pistols/clash

Absolutely, but everyone has an influence.


Without Robert Johnson there is no

Eric Clapton

jimi Hendrix

Aerosmith

Led Zeppelin

The Doors

Stevie Ray Vaughan

Black Sabbath

etc etc etc

But most of the people on that list would still be categorised as being at genius level.

You could say without Iggy Pop there is no New York Dolls....or without Elvis there is no New York Dolls.....

The point I am trying to make is, no-one is ever 100% original, but that doesn't discount them from being a genius.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

So Elvis is an innovator,because he was the first whiteboy to sing that music.

But, he relied onb others to write, so he's not a genius.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by binnie
I like prog, so don't get me wrong.


Sometimes genius is about songs, and The Ramones have plenty that'll last forever. Musicianship wise, The Ramones are genius in a minimalist way. Every 4/4 punk band after owes a lot to them.....

Can't comment-not a punk fan.

See what I mean about the word genius being overused. I've never known any non-punk fan to like a RAMONES song, but I know plenty of non-prog songs to like a few Yes songs.

[binnie]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
So Elvis is an innovator,because he was the first whiteboy to sing that music.

But, he relied onb others to write, so he's not a genius.

No, Elvis wasn't a genius in my opinion, but many think he was.

however, not many people have been more influencial.

The point I was making is that it is impossible to 100% original, everyone is influenced by something because nothing that is created happens in a void.

[binnie]

Oh, and lets put Iggy Pop on that list.

[Diamondjimi]

FRANK ZAPPA

STEVIE WONDER

SHAWN LANE

HENDRIX

DYLAN

Come to mind .

[Mr. Vengeance]

I forgot my other favorite band the Ramones.

Their impact and genius was way above that of the New York Dolls...sorry. The Dolls were good, but they were a novelty act comapred to the Ramones.

[sadaist]

Peter Gabriel

Sting, Copeland, Summers (only together)

[Mr Badguy]

Chas N Dave

Who else could blend East End humour and tradition fused with rock n roll and contemporary early 1980`s pop?

The original "Rockney" band.

[Mr Badguy]

Oh, and soundtrack composer John Williams.

"Star Wars", "Superman", "Jaws", the Indiana Jones films, to name but a few.

To come up with so many amazing and memorable pieces of unintrusive but unforgettable music is really the work of genius.

His music adds so much to any film.

[binnie]

Originally posted by Mr. Vengeance
I forgot my other favorite band the Ramones.

Their impact and genius was way above that of the New York Dolls...sorry. The Dolls were good, but they were a novelty act comapred to the Ramones.

Thank-you....

[Roy Munson]

Chris Thile - THE greatest musician I have ever heard or seen.

Jerry Douglas

Bela Fleck

Edgar Meyer

Mark O' Connor

Tony Rice

Bob Dylan

Pete Townshend

Ian Thornley

Butch Walker

Sting

Miles Davis

John Coltrane

Dave Grohl

Frank Zappa

Peter Gabriel

Prince

Mutt Lange

Dr. Dre

Eric Johnson

[Roy Munson]

Oh, and collectively...

Radiohead

[m_dixon1984]

Radiohead suck balls...

...so do the following:

Coldplay
U2
REM

Fuck 'em all and their ball sucking ways.

M

[Terry]

Originally posted by Sugar-Dave
Edward Van Halen, Freddie Mercury and Les Paul

I'm not so sure I'd call Eddie a genius...

I suppose...he certainly was innovative enough back in the day...

But if I break his style down:

A lot of his vibrato bar work reminds me of Hendrix

He wasn't the first to use pinched harmonics.

He wasn't the first one to use 'tapping'.

I suppose I'd give him the nod for being able to take elements of what he had heard and synthesize it into a unique style (well, unique until everybody and their brother figured out his 'tricks' - by the end of the 1980s, I was sick of EVH because of all the clones) -

I can't deny that when I first heard Eruption, my jaw hit the floor. Same went for the intro to Women In Love and Meanstreet. And the solo to Sinner's Swing. Common reaction from me upon hearing EVH's CVH stuff back in the day: "How the fuck does he DO that?"

I never had quite that same reaction with anyone else who came out after him other than Malmsteen. Not Vai, not 'Satch', not Gilbert. Nobody.


Mercury - nah. Queen were a great band. Spectacular. Not quite genius.

Les Paul - definitely.

[fe_lung]

Brian Wilson
Little Richard
Elvis Costello

[fe_lung]

Robert Johnson
Howlin' Wolf
Muddy Waters
BB King

[sadaist]

Originally posted by Mr Badguy
Oh, and soundtrack composer John Williams.

"Star Wars", "Superman", "Jaws", the Indiana Jones films, to name but a few.

To come up with so many amazing and memorable pieces of unintrusive but unforgettable music is really the work of genius.

His music adds so much to any film.



Fuck yeah for that one. Those soundtracks are as much a part of being an American as McDonalds and bleach blondes in bikinis.

[sadaist]

Bernie Taupin should get a nod. Elton is nothing without him. Dude wrote some amazing shit.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Bernie Taupin us a lyricist, not a musician. How can a lyricist be a musical genius?

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by Terry

Mercury - nah. Queen were a great band. Spectacular. Not quite genius.


I dunno. He certainly set high standards. Its a bit cliche now, but, at the time, Bohemian Rhapsody?

And he certainly varied what he wrote enough. Can you think of any songs as different as "Princes of the Universe", "Crazy Little Thing Called Love", "Love of my Life", "Liar", "My Melancholy Blues" etc...

Also, bearing in mind he's the only rockstar who ever got away with making an oprea album.

[Cato]

Gene Simmons . he has a genius for using music to make money.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Especially considering what his music is like.

I mean, its hardly on par with Beethoven, is it?

[binnie]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
Especially considering what his music is like.

I mean, its hardly on par with Beethoven, is it?

"Crazy Nights" is definately on par with Beethoven.......

[binnie]

That was a joke before you all starts throwing things...

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Yea, we got that.

[binnie]

Nina Simone...

[sadaist]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
Bernie Taupin us a lyricist, not a musician. How can a lyricist be a musical genius?

The same way people like Clive Owen or Rick Rubin can be musical geniuses. You don't necessarily have to actually write or play the music to be a musical genius.

[Padre Atilio]

My favourites are also The Red Hot Chili Peppers... I cant help my self but their BloodSugarSexMagik is for the greatest rock album...

[binnie]

Originally posted by Padre Atilio
My favourites are also The Red Hot Chili Peppers... I cant help my self but their BloodSugarSexMagik is for the greatest rock album...

mmmmm, they are a great band and that is a great album, but genius?

I think not.....

[nosuchluck]

said it before and i'll say it again - Shawn Lane

[Jimmy Jingles]

Ted "Theodore" Logan and Bill S. Preston Esquire

[Terry]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
I dunno. He certainly set high standards. Its a bit cliche now, but, at the time, Bohemian Rhapsody?

And he certainly varied what he wrote enough. Can you think of any songs as different as "Princes of the Universe", "Crazy Little Thing Called Love", "Love of my Life", "Liar", "My Melancholy Blues" etc...

Also, bearing in mind he's the only rockstar who ever got away with making an oprea album.

Diverse, without a doubt.

Maybe Queen as a band bordered on genius at times...

[Roy Munson]

Originally posted by Jimmy Jingles
Ted "Theodore" Logan and Bill S. Preston Esquire



Dude, who is that chick in your sig?

I wanna fuck every orifice on her entire body. I'd let her piss on me, shit on me, whip me with a bull whip...whatever. Where can I find more pix of her to wank to?

Thanks.

[Roy Munson]

Originally posted by Terry

Maybe Queen as a band bordered on genius at times...



Absolutely!!!

[binnie]

Queen

mmmmmm.......

[Jimmy Jingles]

Originally posted by Roy Munson
Dude, who is that chick in your sig?

I wanna fuck every orifice on her entire body. I'd let her piss on me, shit on me, whip me with a bull whip...whatever. Where can I find more pix of her to wank to?

Thanks.


That is Lindsay Lohan...before her tits did a disappearing act and she dropped to under a $1.05

[binnie]

Originally posted by Jimmy Jingles
That is Lindsay Lohan...before her tits did a disappearing act and she dropped to under a $1.05

LOL!!!!

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by sadaist
The same way people like Clive Owen or Rick Rubin can be musical geniuses. You don't necessarily have to actually write or play the music to be a musical genius.

It will probably come as no shock to you that I would not consider Clive Owen or Rick Rubin as a musical genius. I think Rubin is probably a genius on some level...but musical genius? Nah.

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

queensryche... listen to Mindcrime

[Soul Reaper]

Ludwig Van Beethoven
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Alexander Scriabin
Johann Sebastian Bach
Richard Wagner
Erik Satie
Igor Stravinsky
Robert Schumann
Frederic Chopin
Franz Schubert

those are musical geniuses....

modern musical geniuses are David Bowie, Prince and Frank Zappa....

[FORD]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
So Elvis is an innovator,because he was the first whiteboy to sing that music.

But, he relied onb others to write, so he's not a genius.

Can't agree with you there.

You go back to those early Sun Records recordings. Elvis and three other hillbillies around one microphone, creating this new musical form that was a blend of the white man's country and the black man's blues. Creating that sound was the genius, even if he didn't write the songs.

[Panamark]

Ok,

Am I being Captain Obvious,

(or did I miss a post ?)

Lennon/McCartney...

Crikies...

Like em or not, they should be at the top of
any "musical genuis" list

and where do we start and stop. Is this just
modern popular music, cos theres been a lot
of genius over the years. Beethoven/Bach etc etc...

[MAPRamone]

Zappa! Miles Davis! John Coltrane! Sonny Rollins! Ornette Coleman! Lennon/McCartney!Stravinsky!

[Soul Reaper]

Originally posted by Panamark
and where do we start and stop. Is this just
modern popular music, cos theres been a lot
of genius over the years. Beethoven/Bach etc etc...

I don't think it matters.....

but I think it should be about modern popular music.....there were too many musical geniuses in the past.....I think talking about modern musical geniuses should 'narrow' it down a bit....