What is the difference between Israel and Nazi Germany?

[Seshmeister]

1) Nazi Germany used to do punishement killings on a totally disproportionate way. If a Nazi officer got killed by the resistance then they would kill dozens of the local population. At present Israel is killing 20 civilians for each of theirs that is killed. 40% of the casualties are children.

2) Nazi Germany attacked democracies. After a history of shit and problems Lebanon was widely told great job by the US in particular when she threw Syria out and set up free elections recently. Now it's totally ok to bomb the fuck out of it apparenttly.

3) Instituitionalised racism. In many places you can't own property if you are not Jewish.

4) Putting people in concentration camps. Thousands of Palestinians can stand on the roofs of their shanty town 'buildings' in the camp at Jenin and look at their homes in Haifa where European and North American Zionists now live.


It's all very depressing and makes you despair about human nature.

The one fucking race in the world who should know better are the Israelis...

It's hard not to start to think there must be some undue influence going on in the media and politics of the US and the UK as a satellite state. It takes hundreds of millions to elect an American president these days. There are a lot of very rich Jews in the US. I can't think of any other reason now for the unreserved support of the US for a country of just 5 million. Without Israel there wouldn't have been a 9-11.

Why the fuck was Israel ever allowed to be set up? Because of the guilt after 6 million jews being murdered by Nazi Germany? The US was built on the deaths of tens of millions of native Americans. If the UN now decided to set up the state for native Americans in the Midwest and everyone who lived there was thrown off their land and into camps would that be fair? If in response you guys then started chucking bombs around would you be terrorists or freedom fighters....?

Cheers!

:gulp:

[ELVIS]

What's the difference between Nazi Germany and Hezbollah ??

[Seshmeister]

Power.

Take everything away from people and a minority of them will fight back. Were the French resistance during WWII terrorists because they weren't able to field an army?

[Seshmeister]

Methods are ambivalent if there is an inherent injustice.

How can we get on a high horse about civilian casualties from suicide bombers when thousands of innocent Iraqis have been killed by US bombing. Or hundreds of innocents killed by Israel in the last week. Or the US killing hundreds of thousands of Japanese using weapons of mass distruction or Britain burning 10s of thousands in firebomb attacks in WWII.

It has to come down to the morality of the cause. If you can justify killing of thousands of innocents in the name of taking over Iraq because Saddam was a bad guy, what's the difference in killing innocent Israelis?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
1) Nazi Germany used to do punishement killings on a totally disproportionate way. If a Nazi officer got killed by the resistance then they would kill dozens of the local population. At present Israel is killing 20 civilians for each of theirs that is killed. 40% of the casualties are children.

2) Nazi Germany attacked democracies. After a history of shit and problems Lebanon was widely told great job by the US in particular when she threw Syria out and set up free elections recently. Now it's totally ok to bomb the fuck out of it apparenttly.

3) Instituitionalised racism. In many places you can't own property if you are not Jewish.

4) Putting people in concentration camps. Thousands of Palestinians can stand on the roofs of their shanty town 'buildings' in the camp at Jenin and look at their homes in Haifa where European and North American Zionists now live.


It's all very depressing and makes you despair about human nature.

The one fucking race in the world who should know better are the Israelis...

It's hard not to start to think there must be some undue influence going on in the media and politics of the US and the UK as a satellite state. It takes hundreds of millions to elect an American president these days. There are a lot of very rich Jews in the US. I can't think of any other reason now for the unreserved support of the US for a country of just 5 million. Without Israel there wouldn't have been a 9-11.

Why the fuck was Israel ever allowed to be set up? Because of the guilt after 6 million jews being murdered by Nazi Germany? The US was built on the deaths of tens of millions of native Americans. If the UN now decided to set up the state for native Americans in the Midwest and everyone who lived there was thrown off their land and into camps would that be fair? If in response you guys then started chucking bombs around would you be terrorists or freedom fighters....?

Cheers!

:gulp:

You know, in 1942, elements of the U.S. Army/OSS prevented an Israeli state from being formed for fear it would engender hatred towards the Allies by millions of Muslims.

Well, we changed our tune...

[Seshmeister]

Allowing the State of Israel to be formed was a huge terrible mistake which we are all suffering for now.

[ELVIS]

It was inevetible...

[Seshmeister]

Because the terrorist Zionists were setting bombs off in public places?

I thought you were against that kind of pressure...?

[Nickdfresh]

We can't have the "rapture" without it!

[Seshmeister]

This is the rapture kind of sort of mentioned perhaps in the same book that says on the first page the Moon is a source of light?

I'll take my chances...:D

[Nickdfresh]

Actually, it's not even mentioned apparently. But a lot of Christians can't read I guess, and believe whatever their pastors tell them...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
What's the difference between Nazi Germany and Hezbollah ??

Hezbollah won an election?

[FORD]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Hezbollah won an election?

No, that's the difference between Hezbollah and the BCE.

Hitler won his election, though it was kinda shady. But not as obvious as Florida or Ohio.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
We can't have the "rapture" without it!

There is no such thing as the rapture.
That is based on a fucking dream by a woman who was suffering a high fever in, of all places, Glasgow Scotland in the 1800's.
Margret McDonald was her name, look it up.

She was seeing things because she was suffering from such a high fever.

Show me where it says anything about a rapture in the bible.

In order to believe in a rapture you have to believe that God comes BEFORE the anti-christ.
but it clearly states that the son of perdition is revealed at the sound of the Sixth trump and Jesus returns at the Seventh.

I know math scores are pitiful in this country right now but, damn, i can count to 10 and know that is bullshit.

Hence, where all churches that preach of the rapture are UN-HOLY...

This is a great story for people who fear the end and being persecuted. it tells them that God is a coward and all his 'Saint's' will be whisked away to Petra to hide behind a fucking rock.
Pardon me, but what is all that stuff about The Lord's Army i sang about as a kid while my mind was being programmed?

So, we/they are to wait for the battle to start and then run and hide?
I don't think so.

Spare me, religion is a bunch of crap as the world believes it...

Everyone has a ticket to hell based on the bullshit being preached and believed these days.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
After a history of shit and problems Lebanon was widely told great job by the US in particular when she threw Syria out and set up free elections recently. Now it's totally ok to bomb the fuck out of it apparenttly.



It is when they are harboring terrorists that are taking potshots at the Israeli people. Are they just supposed to sit idly by and let that happen?

I think not. Lebanon is sadly getting what it reaped when they decided not to take any action against these Islamo-terrorists itself.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
It is when they are harboring terrorists that are taking potshots at the Israeli people. Are they just supposed to sit idly by and let that happen?

I think not. Lebanon is sadly getting what it reaped when they decided not to take any action against these Islamo-terrorists itself.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:767RmIfvTi709M:home.spinet.cz/FilipJackoff/Butt03.jpg

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
A Homo image

Intelligent response.


:rolleyes:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
It is when they are harboring terrorists that are taking potshots at the Israeli people.

Actually, they captured IDF soldiers in an ambush. It was the Israelis that began the 'potshots.'


Are they just supposed to sit idly by and let that happen?

They're supposed to limit their response to Hezbollah, not wait for an excuse to reduce the Lebanese state.


I think not. Lebanon is sadly getting what it reaped when they decided not to take any action against these Islamo-terrorists itself.

You sound like a terrorist justifying attacks on innocent civilians. Disgusting!

[Dr. Love]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
They're supposed to limit their response to Hezbollah, not wait for an excuse to reduce the Lebanese state.

I have no idea why everyone thinks there should be a proportionate response. What, is each side supposed to have a 1:1 ratio in kills?

Who said it was supposed to be fair or whatever?

As sad as it is that civilians get killed who aren't even involved, is it even realistic to think that there would be absolutely no civilian casualties when the people the Israelis are fighting are hiding in neighborhoods and other areas?

If some group was launching missiles and attacks into our country, or into England, or Scotland regularly, do you really think any of the countries would do a "proportionate" response?

IMO proportionate responses only work when there is a level playing field and neither side can realistically 'win'. The Israelis are clearly more powerful and have the capacity to kick the shit out of their opposition, and I think they should.

Comparing them to Nazis is extreme, as well. Where's the gas chambers and ovens for the arabs?

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:767RmIfvTi709M:home.spinet.cz/FilipJackoff/Butt03.jpg
Intelligent response.


Don't sticky up your Mom's keyboard!

[EAT MY ASSHOLE]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
I have no idea why everyone thinks there should be a proportionate response. What, is each side supposed to have a 1:1 ratio in kills?

Who said it was supposed to be fair or whatever?

As sad as it is that civilians get killed who aren't even involved, is it even realistic to think that there would be absolutely no civilian casualties when the people the Israelis are fighting are hiding in neighborhoods and other areas?

If some group was launching missiles and attacks into our country, or into England, or Scotland regularly, do you really think any of the countries would do a "proportionate" response?

IMO proportionate responses only work when there is a level playing field and neither side can realistically 'win'. The Israelis are clearly more powerful and have the capacity to kick the shit out of their opposition, and I think they should.

Comparing them to Nazis is extreme, as well. Where's the gas chambers and ovens for the arabs?


Best response on here yet. Thanks for having a brain. And I'll know never to phuck with you or yours ever.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
I have no idea why everyone thinks there should be a proportionate response. What, is each side supposed to have a 1:1 ratio in kills?

Of women or children? Actually, the kill ratio is about 400 Lebanese to about a dozen Israelis. How about abducting Hezbollah members? How about targeted assassinations. Why are they killing Christian civilians as well as Muslim ones?


Who said it was supposed to be fair or whatever?

That rationale can be used to justify terror...

And when I may have to deal with future terrorism based on what Israel does because my tax dollars fund them, Goddamnit I say they have to be fair...


As sad as it is that civilians get killed who aren't even involved, is it even realistic to think that there would be absolutely no civilian casualties when the people the Israelis are fighting are hiding in neighborhoods and other areas?

They're not hiding in neighborhoods. Does anyone have a source for this crap? Hezbollah, for all their despicableness, is largely fighting Israel using conventional and guerilla troops...


If some group was launching missiles and attacks into our country, or into England, or Scotland regularly, do you really think any of the countries would do a "proportionate" response?

You have a point there.

How did we respond to 9/11?


IMO proportionate responses only work when there is a level playing field and neither side can realistically 'win'. The Israelis are clearly more powerful and have the capacity to kick the shit out of their opposition, and I think they should.

Comparing them to Nazis is extreme, as well. Where's the gas chambers and ovens for the arabs?

The Israelis are not going to "win." They're going to get bled. And I agree the Nazi analogy is a bit over the top. I prefer South Africa. Because after all, if one didn't support Apartheid, then one must have been racist against white people...;)

[Nitro Express]

I used to live in Israel and give me a break. I think you better study up on Nazi Germany more. Israel is not sending millions of Palistinians to concentration camps and gasing them to death. Israel is not using Palistinians for three months of forced labor before they die of exaustion and malnutrition. Israel gave back land instead of rolling forth and taking more. Israel does not want to take over the world or create a super race.

Israel is a small country trying to survive in a situtation where all it's nieghbors want to wipe it away. Excuse me but sometimes Israel needs to open up some whoop ass.

[EAT MY ASSHOLE]

You lived in Israel and now live in Jackson Hole, Wyoming???

You are one confused bastard, you know that???

[FORD]

Israel wouldn't be such a bad place if they would outlaw the Likud party and execute every last one of the bastards. Including the ones that have infiltrated OUR government.

The Likud Zionfascists are indeed Nazis. Gitmo IS a concentration camp, and the walls they're building around the Palestinians are no different than Hitler wanting to round up all the Jews.

Will the "final solution" be the same? Well, it's obvious by now that the Likud Zionfascists do not value life whatsoever. Jews, Arabs, Lebonese Christians are all equally dispensible in the eyes of these fascist pieces of shit.

[Nickdfresh]

WTF? This page won't even load for me?:confused:

[FORD]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
WTF? This page won't even load for me?:confused:

Just a text reply....

Maybe Mossad's trying to hack the site?

Where's Agent Z been lately anyway?

[Dr. Love]

Originally posted by FORD
Just a text reply....

Maybe Mossad's trying to hack the site?

Where's Agent Z been lately anyway?

I read that he got a 'talking to' about something he posted and figured it'd be best not to visit again.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by FORD
Just a text reply....

Maybe Mossad's trying to hack the site?

Where's Agent Z been lately anyway?

That's kind of what I was wondering since it took me like 20-minutes to notice that you posted only text...


Originally posted by Dr. Love
I read that he got a 'talking to' about something he posted and figured it'd be best not to visit again.

Well, "he got a tlaking to," then kept posting anyways. Anyhoo, I think he said he was going away on business actually...

[Dr. Love]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Of women or children? Actually, the kill ratio is about 400 Lebanese to about a dozen Israelis. How about abducting Hezbollah members? How about targeted assassinations. Why are they killing Christian civilians as well as Muslim ones?

I dunno. But I wouldn't continue living in a war zone, that's for sure. I'd get the hell out of there. As far as why they are doing what they are doing rather than targetted assassinations... I saw on the news that some Israeli fighter jets buzzed the presidential palace in Damascus or something like that.

I suppose part of fighting a war is making sure you don't have to keep fighting a war. One would think that at some point these guys would consider the idea that if they kill one Israeli soldier, that 400 of their own will die for it. Maybe they are fanatical enough to care, but I'm sure at some point some of them will make the connection that their actions are causing more problems for their own people than for the Israelis, and at the very least the people that are suffering for the actions of Hezbollah might just decide they don't want Hezbollah continuing to operate in an area that is causing them grief.

I know that sounds callous and it's really too bad that innocents are dying but maybe they should do something to keep Hezbollah from doing this? Maybe they should get other countries like the US or Israel to help push Hezbollah out and be an ally?




That rationale can be used to justify terror...

And when I may have to deal with future terrorism based on what Israel does because my tax dollars fund them, Goddamnit I say they have to be fair...


Of course it can. I don't expect for one moment any terrorist to do anything except to go for maximizing the amount of damage they can do. And I don't even expect them to spare any innocents. They don't seem to make that distinction.



They're not hiding in neighborhoods. Does anyone have a source for this crap? Hezbollah, for all their despicableness, is largely fighting Israel using conventional and guerilla troops...


Heard it on TV/Read it in an article or two. Not sure if it's true that they are hiding in neighborhoods. Wouldn't doubt that they are though.



The Israelis are not going to "win." They're going to get bled. And I agree the Nazi analogy is a bit over the top. I prefer South Africa. Because after all, if one didn't support Apartheid, then one must have been racist against white people...;)

I think Israel could win their war, it just depends on how far they want to go to achieve it and how much the rest of the world is willing to stomach before interceding.

[Dr. Love]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Well, "he got a tlaking to," then kept posting anyways. Anyhoo, I think he said he was going away on business actually...

Maybe I misunderstood, I thought that was in reference to Lucky Wilbury?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
Maybe I misunderstood, I thought that was in reference to Lucky Wilbury?

That's who I mean. I asked why he stopped posting here when I argued with him at DDLR, and he claimed that a mod had refused his request to remove a post he made here, and that he got into trouble for it. But he still continued to post exactly the same stuff at DDLR, so I wondered how much is just BS and what to believe...

In any case, I think he said he was leaving over there for a while for business more than anything. But I don't know and really don't care as much as the three minutes of my life I took writing up this post would indicate... In any case, I hope he's well, I actually like the sonofabitch...:D

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
I dunno. But I wouldn't continue living in a war zone, that's for sure. I'd get the hell out of there. As far as why they are doing what they are doing rather than targetted assassinations... I saw on the news that some Israeli fighter jets buzzed the presidential palace in Damascus or something like that.

Well, driving people from their homes via bombing and artillery is called "ethnic cleansing" when some people do it...

It's pretty savage what their doing actually...


I suppose part of fighting a war is making sure you don't have to keep fighting a war. One would think that at some point these guys would consider the idea that if they kill one Israeli soldier, that 400 of their own will die for it. Maybe they are fanatical enough to care, but I'm sure at some point some of them will make the connection that their actions are causing more problems for their own people than for the Israelis, and at the very least the people that are suffering for the actions of Hezbollah might just decide they don't want Hezbollah continuing to operate in an area that is causing them grief.

Well, in a sense, you're agreeing to the premise of this thread, the Nazis did the same thing in their occupied countries, using collective punishment. It was like at least 15 civilians killed, and up, depending on the rank of the assassinated German soldier...


I know that sounds callous and it's really too bad that innocents are dying but maybe they should do something to keep Hezbollah from doing this? Maybe they should get other countries like the US or Israel to help push Hezbollah out and be an ally?


Well, I've heard of a NATO-led peacekeeping force being deployed in South Lebanon.

But Hezbollah does not target U.S. interests, not the Lebanese version at least...


Of course it can. I don't expect for one moment any terrorist to do anything except to go for maximizing the amount of damage they can do. And I don't even expect them to spare any innocents. They don't seem to make that distinction.

Well, they're still killing far less, and we're getting into the whole "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" re. tactics of guerrillas vs. modern tanks and aircraft...


Heard it on TV/Read it in an article or two. Not sure if it's true that they are hiding in neighborhoods. Wouldn't doubt that they are though.


I know Hez. disperses their weapons, but the Katyusha rockets are not in Beirut since they'd be way out of range of Israel. And then why is Israel targeting bridges, ports, and other economic targets?

And three students died in a bus from Israel airstrikes. This kind of thing does nothing but make more guerrillas...


I think Israel could win their war, it just depends on how far they want to go to achieve it and how much the rest of the world is willing to stomach before interceding.

They never really got rid of Hezbollah when they occupied S. Lebanon for 20-yrs. I don't know how they'll win now...

[jcook11]

Let's see; Ovens.....poisened gas showers...."medical expierimentation"....selection......

[FORD]

Originally posted by jcook11
Let's see; Ovens.....poisened gas showers...."medical expierimentation"....selection......

You get hung up on the specifics while ignoring the mentality which LED to those specifics in the first place.

[jcook11]

Originally posted by FORD
You get hung up on the specifics while ignoring the mentality which LED to those specifics in the first place.

I'm sorry six million (at least) is a lot of specifics.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by jcook11
I'm sorry six million (at least) is a lot of specifics.

Two wrongs (though one admittedly infinitely greater than the other) don't make a right...

[Dr. Love]

Originally posted by FORD
You get hung up on the specifics while ignoring the mentality which LED to those specifics in the first place.

I think the two situations are pretty different.

Unless you can point out a jewish version of hezbollah operating in poland in the early 20th century?

[Nitro Express]

Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
You lived in Israel and now live in Jackson Hole, Wyoming???

You are one confused bastard, you know that???

LOL! Well, Jackson Hole is a nice hideout and tax haven. Many consider it one of the most beautiful places in the US. We probably would beat Aspen if we had a bigger airport.

As for being confused. Yup, I'm moving to Germany next month. No shit. I think the world has changed. People think Wyoming is full of ranchers but that's impossible to make a living at unless you are a huge opperation. So the ranchers now machine race car parts or sell handmade horse tackle on the internet.

I'm not confused, the whole fucking world is.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
I think the two situations are pretty different.

Unless you can point out a jewish version of hezbollah operating in poland in the early 20th century?

Hitler blamed the Reichstag fire on the Communists (though he torched it himself) And he invaded Poland because he claimed they were somehow a "threat" to Germany. Like Iraq was a "threat" to the US or Iran is a "threat" to Israel.

[Romeo Delight]

Originally posted by Cathedral

Everyone has a ticket to hell based on the bullshit being preached and believed these days.


The chicken...today was Sunday...the chicken...

I am not making light of this.

I seriously want to know what the reaction was.

[Dr. Love]

Originally posted by FORD
Hitler blamed the Reichstag fire on the Communists (though he torched it himself) And he invaded Poland because he claimed they were somehow a "threat" to Germany. Like Iraq was a "threat" to the US or Iran is a "threat" to Israel.

All right. But we're still talking about Israel and Lebanon here. Hezbollah fires missiles into Israel from Lebanon.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
All right. But we're still talking about Israel and Lebanon here. Hezbollah fires missiles into Israel from Lebanon.



And innocent Lebanese children be damned....


I know, I know......war is hell, collaterol damage.......


But Jesus, is there no alternative?

I don't claim to know. Just asking.

:confused:

[Dr. Love]

If there is, I don't recall hearing anyone propose one.

[Kristy]

Nazi Germany had cleaner jack boots.*





*no desert, you see.

[jcook11]

Originally posted by FORD
Hitler blamed the Reichstag fire on the Communists (though he torched it himself) And he invaded Poland because he claimed they were somehow a "threat" to Germany. Like Iraq was a "threat" to the US or Iran is a "threat" to Israel.

Iran NOT a threat to Israel......Do tell

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by DavidFlamma
The chicken...today was Sunday...the chicken...

I am not making light of this.

I seriously want to know what the reaction was.

LOL, that will be this coming Sunday, and i AM going to do it.
I'm heading down to the farm tomorrow morning to make sure the power and shit is on in the house. I'm bringing two chickens back with me.

It'll be a hoot, or a cluck as it were, lmmfao.

After next weekend i'll be gone anyway, but what a way to go out, eh?

I'll keep you posted.

[FORD]

Originally posted by jcook11
Iran NOT a threat to Israel......Do tell

The only way you can get to Israel from Iran is through PNAC-occupied Iraq.

And you know that ain't happening.

[FORD]

Originally posted by jcook11
Iran NOT a threat to Israel......Do tell

The only way you can get to Israel from Iran is through PNAC-occupied Iraq.

And you know that ain't happening.

[FORD]

Originally posted by jcook11
Iran NOT a threat to Israel......Do tell

The only way you can get to Israel from Iran is through PNAC-occupied Iraq.

And you know that ain't happening.

[jcook11]

Originally posted by FORD
The only way you can get to Israel from Iran is through PNAC-occupied Iraq.

And you know that ain't happening.

Just like al queda wouldn't sneak into this country, hijack planes and fly them into buildings.

[FORD]

Originally posted by jcook11
Just like al queda wouldn't sneak into this country, hijack planes and fly them into buildings.

Well, IF they did so, and that's a HUGE "if", then they didn't sneak. They walked into the country LEGALLY on Saudi Arabian visas. And they were supposedly trained to fly at BCE/CIA affiliated flight schools in TEXAS and FLORIDA.

[jcook11]

Originally posted by FORD
Well, IF they did so, and that's a HUGE "if", then they didn't sneak. They walked into the country LEGALLY on Saudi Arabian visas. And they were supposedly trained to fly at BCE/CIA affiliated flight schools in TEXAS and FLORIDA.

FORD, Just for the record....One more time, Do you HONESTLY think that George W. Bush had something to do with or knew about in advance.... The happenings of 9/11?

[FORD]

Originally posted by jcook11
FORD, Just for the record....One more time, Do you HONESTLY think that George W. Bush had something to do with or knew about in advance.... The happenings of 9/11?


There are two absolute facts that cannot be ignored....

1) To whatever degree "Al Qaeda" actually exists, it is a creation of Poppy Bush's CIA.

2) The PNAC agenda, published in 2000, openly calls for an event "such as a new Pearl Harbor" in order to sell their agenda of global fascism to the American people.

These two facts cannot be disputed. And taken together they prove that the BCE is ultimately responsible for the events of 9-11-01.

The only thing negotiable is the degree to which they were directly involved.

[jcook11]

Originally posted by FORD
There are two absolute facts that cannot be ignored....

1) To whatever degree "Al Qaeda" actually exists, it is a creation of Poppy Bush's CIA.

2) The PNAC agenda, published in 2000, openly calls for an event "such as a new Pearl Harbor" in order to sell their agenda of global fascism to the American people.

These two facts cannot be disputed. And taken together they prove that the BCE is ultimately responsible for the events of 9-11-01.

The only thing negotiable is the degree to which they were directly involved.

FORD,You and I have had our differences in the past but I have come to find you to be a very intelligent person on many things so I am not being a smartass by asking Where can I find this "published PNAC agenda".

[FORD]

Originally posted by jcook11
FORD,You and I have had our differences in the past but I have come to find you to be a very intelligent person on many things so I am not being a smartass by asking Where can I find this "published PNAC agenda".

Right here (http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf) on the PNAC website where it's been for the last 6 years.

Look on page 63 for the "Pearl Harbor" quote. There's also some fascinating - or should I say FASCIST-nating - stuff in there about creating biological weapons which somehow attack only certain genetic traits, and how such weapons could become "politically useful tools"

These people are sick bastards. And they are the same ones who now make up Chimpy's cabinet, and other members of the BCE "inner circle".

[diamondD]

And don't forget, it was Jimmy Carter's administration who started the whole resistance that became known as Al-queda in order to fight the Russians. Jimmah gave the green light on this wonderful experinment. :)

[FORD]

Originally posted by diamondD
And don't forget, it was Jimmy Carter's administration who started the whole resistance that became known as Al-queda in order to fight the Russians. Jimmah gave the green light on this wonderful experinment. :)

Yeah, it was Carter, or more accurately Zbignew Bryzinski, who came up with the concept of the Afghan resistance. But it was Poppy who put it in the hands of his old friend "Tim Osman" a.k.a. Osama Bin Laden

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
Yeah, it was Carter, or more accurately Zbignew Bryzinski, who came up with the concept of the Afghan resistance. But it was Poppy who put it in the hands of his old friend "Tim Osman" a.k.a. Osama Bin Laden

All of which reinforces what i have been saying for awhile now...You cannot trust either party to do what is best for this country.

Even good fruit can go bad, i just posted that last night.

Even at that, you can only judge what is proven to be fact.
I agree the PNAC agenda is disgusting, but if all of this is so well known by everyone why has there not be serious action taken to eliminate their ability to carry out said agenda?

It seems to me that if it were all as dire as you have been claiming for the past 6 years the Democrats would sink their teeth into it and take care of business.
I mean, damn, it's year 6 and still counting.

Sorry, but both parties are a fucking joke to me.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
I think the two situations are pretty different.

Unless you can point out a jewish version of hezbollah operating in poland in the early 20th century?

Actually, Zionist (Israeli) "terrorists" were setting off bombs and killing British soldiers in Palestine in the 40s...

Then they became the then future Prime Ministers of said state...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by diamondD
And don't forget, it was Jimmy Carter's administration who started the whole resistance that became known as Al-queda in order to fight the Russians. Jimmah gave the green light on this wonderful experinment. :)

That's not exactly true. Carter sent weapons to largely secular elements led by former members of the overthrown Afghan gov't and military.

It was under Reagan that the Wahabist elements in Saudi Arabia began to splinter the Afghan mujaheddin into factions by supporting only the most radical of them...

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Because the terrorist Zionists were setting bombs off in public places?
A fervently ignored fact nowadays!

[Nickdfresh]

Bump!

[Warham]

The difference? God's on Israel's side. :)

[Nickdfresh]

Funny, but all of their enemies are still there, and they still need a large military (IDF) formation along with dozens of nuclear weapons...

Maybe God's just not that useful?

[Warham]

He has been in the past. I don't see why he wouldn't be in the future. Israel's survived despite some low odds over the last sixty years.

God saves them on his schedule, not on theirs. :)

[Warham]

Besides, didn't you watch Raiders of the Lost Ark? :D

[Dr. Love]

What's with the necromancy eh?

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by WAR
He has been in the past. I don't see why he wouldn't be in the future. Israel's survived despite some low odds over the last sixty years.

God saves them on his schedule, not on theirs. :)

Yeah he was a bit late during WWII...

[Nitro Express]

Interesting having all this Jew bashing on a website didicated to a Jew. Dave supports Israel and the war. He has said so many times.

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by Cathedral
There is no such thing as the rapture.
That is based on a fucking dream by a woman who was suffering a high fever in, of all places, Glasgow Scotland in the 1800's.
Margret McDonald was her name, look it up.

She was seeing things because she was suffering from such a high fever.

Show me where it says anything about a rapture in the bible.

In order to believe in a rapture you have to believe that God comes BEFORE the anti-christ.
but it clearly states that the son of perdition is revealed at the sound of the Sixth trump and Jesus returns at the Seventh.

I know math scores are pitiful in this country right now but, damn, i can count to 10 and know that is bullshit.

Hence, where all churches that preach of the rapture are UN-HOLY...

This is a great story for people who fear the end and being persecuted. it tells them that God is a coward and all his 'Saint's' will be whisked away to Petra to hide behind a fucking rock.
Pardon me, but what is all that stuff about The Lord's Army i sang about as a kid while my mind was being programmed?

So, we/they are to wait for the battle to start and then run and hide?
I don't think so.

Spare me, religion is a bunch of crap as the world believes it...

Everyone has a ticket to hell based on the bullshit being preached and believed these days.

Rapture is not the coming of Jesus it is when God takes the christians from earth and brings them to heaven, Jesus comes much later.

[FORD]

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[FORD]

Oh SHIT! I missed the Rapture?? :(

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[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
Interesting having all this Jew bashing on a website didicated to a Jew. Dave supports Israel and the war. He has said so many times.

Israel bashing is not jew bashing.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
Rapture is not the coming of Jesus it is when God takes the christians from earth and brings them to heaven, Jesus comes much later.

Stop being so silly.

The rapture was made up by a mad little woman in Scotland in the 1800s.

Go look it up and stop believing all this BS you have been spoonfed.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
What's with the necromancy eh?

I dunno, WUTs with your sig?

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
Rapture is not the coming of Jesus it is when God takes the christians from earth and brings them to heaven, Jesus comes much later.

Thanks for recapping the highlights from your comic book collection. :rolleyes:

[Dr. Love]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I dunno, WUTs with your sig?

I dunno, wut IS with my sig?

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Stop being so silly.

The rapture was made up by a mad little woman in Scotland in the 1800s.


Sorry I made a little mistake there.

It was made up by a 15 year old girl in Scotland in 1830 who claimed to have a vision during a fever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Macdonald_%28Prophecy%29

Around the same time god was talking to her he was also talking to Joeseph Smith and getting him to invent momonism.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
I dunno, wut IS with my sig?

You tell me, mister! :mad:

Actually, it cracks me up every other day or so...

And I necroed 'cause I was curious about a couple things mentioned in this thread regarding Lebanon...

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Stop being so silly.

The rapture was made up by a mad little woman in Scotland in the 1800s.

Go look it up and stop believing all this BS you have been spoonfed.

Fuck you, I don't tell you to stop having your beliefs.

I'm sick of people coming on here and bashing religion. It is a personal choice to have faith. If you choose not the believe anything thats fine, just do not talk shit about people who do.

Grow up.

[jgdrag]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
Fuck you, I don't tell you to stop having your beliefs.

I'm sick of people coming on here and bashing religion. It is a personal choice to have faith. If you choose not the believe anything thats fine, just do not talk shit about people who do.

Grow up.

Maybe you should stop coming in here if you can't handle it

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by jgdrag
Maybe you should stop coming in here if you can't handle it

what the hell are you talking about?

[Seshmeister]

The derivation of the rapture story isn't a religious belief.

I can't prove there is no god just like you can't prove there is so you could say that's a belief. This rapture crap is different.

Like the fact that the machines scientologists use don't work, or that the sun doesn't go around the earth, the rapture story started when evangelists got a hold of the story a 15 year old girl in Scotland told after she was in a fever in 1830.

It's been subsequently used by evangelists as another means of terrifying people into giving them money.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
what the hell are you talking about?

..About you being an intellectual pussy...

Aren't you going to college now?

[Warham]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Yeah he was a bit late during WWII...

Something good for the Jews came out of WWII, and that was the re-creation of Israel as a sovereign nation. It was forecast in the Bible over two thousand years before that, it was only a matter of time of when it would happen, and how it would happen.

I doubt the nation of Israel would exist today if not for the Holocaust, and the world's reaction to it.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by WAR
Something good for the Jews came out of WWII, and that was the re-creation of Israel as a sovereign nation.


LMAO

File that under "The Lord works in mysterious ways" I guess...

Or:

God answers all prayers, but sometimes he's a little busy, and the ovens will just have to wait....

:rolleyes:

That's the thing about Religion. EVERYTHING can be spun into: "see, God did it!!"

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by WAR
Something good for the Jews came out of WWII, and that was the re-creation of Israel as a sovereign nation. It was forecast in the Bible over two thousand years before that, it was only a matter of time of when it would happen, and how it would happen.

I doubt the nation of Israel would exist today if not for the Holocaust, and the world's reaction to it.

Was that really a "prediction," or a 'self fulfilled prophecy?'

BTW, what did God think about the Palestinian children thrown out of their homes?

[Warham]

Your first choice is the accurate one. :)

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Was that really a "prediction," or a 'self fulfilled prophecy?'

BTW, what did God think about the Palestinian children thrown out of their homes?

How could the Jews fulfill that prophecy themselves? Were they in any situation to take their property back the last two thousand years? They were effectively scattered around the globe.

I'm not sure what God thinks of the Palestinians, although in the Bible, they are referred to as Philistines. You've read the story of David versus Goliath. He was a Philistine.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by WAR
How could the Jews fulfill that prophecy themselves?

Ummm

God had no pull?

Now I'm confused....

Or was the US Military GOD ?

[FORD]

On the other hand, many Orthodox Jews don't believe in the UN-created state of Israel, because they believe only the Messiah can establish the true Israel.

So if they are right, then God didn't have anything to do with what happenned in 1948.

[Warham]

Originally posted by FORD
On the other hand, many Orthodox Jews don't believe in the UN-created state of Israel, because they believe only the Messiah can establish the true Israel.

So if they are right, then God didn't have anything to do with what happenned in 1948.

Yes, but those same Jews probably don't accept Jesus as their messiah either.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by WAR
How could the Jews fulfill that prophecy themselves?

They'd been doing it since at least the 19th century, when European Jewry began to move to British occupied Palestine!.


Were they in any situation to take their property back the last two thousand years? They were effectively scattered around the globe.

No. There was still a significant population of Jews in the Middle East. Believe it or not, they often fared better in the Islamic world than they did in "Christian" Europe...


I'm not sure what God thinks of the Palestinians, although in the Bible, they are referred to as Philistines. You've read the story of David versus Goliath. He was a Philistine.

Who was the "Philistine?" David or Goliath?

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
They'd been doing it since at leat the 19th century when European Jews moved to British occupied Palestine!.

No. There was still a significant population of Jews in the Middle East. Believe it or not, they often fared better in the Islamic world than they did in "Christian" Europe...

Oh, I don't doubt that for a minute. I just don't believe they could have set up shop without the United Nations granting their sovereignity (is that a word?). Britain had a huge hand in it, of course.


Who was the "Philistine?" David or Goliath?

Goliath. He was the 'general' of the Philistine army. He was supposedly 8-9 feet tall. David was part of the Hebrew crew. After he slew Goliath, he became King of Israel.

[FORD]

Originally posted by WAR
Yes, but those same Jews probably don't accept Jesus as their messiah either.

Most Jews don't. At least not yet.

And Jesus doesn't run the UN, so what's your point?

[Warham]

Originally posted by FORD
Most Jews don't. At least not yet.

And Jesus doesn't run the UN, so what's your point?

My point is, GOD can use a corrupt organization like the United Nations for His own purposes.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by WAR
My point is, GOD can use a corrupt organization like the United Nations for His own purposes.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


:D :D :D

[FORD]

If God could have used the UN, He would have used them to stop the fraudulent 2000 and 2004 elections in this country.

[Warham]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:lol: :lol: :lol:


:D :D :D

I know, it's funny to think just how sleazy the UN really is.

[Warham]

Originally posted by FORD
If God could have used the UN, He would have used them to stop the fraudulent 2000 and 2004 elections in this country.

Maybe that's all part of the plan.

[FORD]

So last week, you asked God to forgive you for voting for Chimpy, now you're saying He was in on the fraud?? :confused:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by WAR
My point is, GOD can use a corrupt organization like the United Nations for His own purposes.

So how do you know he didn't use the Nazi's for his own purposes because he fucking hates jews? I guess that's the fuckwit scum anti semetic Mel Gibson argument but by your logic it totally stands up.

This living god idea just falls over at every hurdle because if this god does do shit then you run straight into the huge problem of why does bad stuff happen so often.

There are millions and millions of people in world who have and have had a much much shittier time than a kicking followed by few hours hanging on on a cross...

Gods great sacrifice, 1 shiity day.

Imagine your doctor phoning you to say you have cancer whilst you are at a Celine Dione concert?


Cheers!

:gulp:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by WAR
I know, it's funny to think just how sleazy the UN really is.

Here is a list of UN Resolutions

1955-1992:

* Resolution 106: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid"

* Resolution 111: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"

* Resolution 127: ". . . 'recommends' Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem"

* Resolution 162: ". . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions"

* Resolution 171: ". . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria"

* Resolution 228: ". . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"

* Resolution 237: ". . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"

* Resolution 248: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"

* Resolution 250: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"

* Resolution 251: ". . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"

* Resolution 252: ". . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"

* Resolution 256: ". . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation""

* Resolution 259: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"

* Resolution 262: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport"

* Resolution 265: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"

* Resolution 267: ". . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"

* Resolution 270: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon" * Resolution 271: ". . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"

* Resolution 279: ". . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"

* Resolution 280: ". . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon"

* Resolution 285: ". . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"

* Resolution 298: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem"

* Resolution 313: ". . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"

* Resolution 316: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"

* Resolution 317: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"

* Resolution 332: ". . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon"

* Resolution 337: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty"

* Resolution 347: ". . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon"

* Resolution 425: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"

* Resolution 427: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon'

* Resolution 444: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"

* Resolution 446: ". . . 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"

* Resolution 450: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"

* Resolution 452: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"

* Resolution 465: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program"

* Resolution 467: ". . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon"

* Resolution 468: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"

* Resolution 469: ". . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians"

* Resolution 471: ". . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"

* Resolution 476: ". . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'"

* Resolution 478: ". . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'"

* Resolution 484: ". . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"

* Resolution 487: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility"

* Resolution 497: ". . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith"

* Resolution 498: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"

* Resolution 501: ". . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"

* Resolution 509: ". . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"

* Resolution 515: ". . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"

* Resolution 517: ". . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"

* Resolution 518: ". . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"

* Resolution 520: ". . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut"

* Resolution 573: ". . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters

* Resolution 587: ". . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"

* Resolution 592: ". . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops"

* Resolution 605: ". . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians

* Resolution 607: ". . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention

* Resolution 608: ". . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"

* Resolution 636: ". . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians

* Resolution 641: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians

* Resolution 672: ". . . 'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount

* Resolution 673: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations

* Resolution 681: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians

* Resolution 694: ". . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return

* Resolution 726: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians

* Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

(taken from the above-mentioned title, pages 188 - 192)

THE FOLLOWING ARE THE RESOLUTIONS VETOED BY THE UNITED STATES DURING THE PERIOD OF SEPTEMBER, 1972, TO MAY, 1990 TO PROTECT ISRAEL FROM COUNCIL CRITICISM:

* . . . condemned Israel's attack against Southern Lebanon and Syria..."

* . . . affirmed the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, statehood and equal protections. . . "

* . . . condemned Israel's air strikes and attacks in southern Lebanon and its murder of innocent civilians. . . "

* . . . called for self-determination of Palestinian people. . . "

* . . deplored Israel's altering of the status of Jerusalem, which is recognized as an international city by most world nations and the United Nations . . . "

* . . . affirmed the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people . . . "

* . . . endorsed self-determination for the Palestinian people . . . "

* . . . demanded Israel's withdrawal from the Golan Heights . . . "

* . . . condemned Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip and its refusal to abide by the Geneva convention protocols of civilized nations.

* . . . condemned an Israeli soldier who shot eleven Moslem worshippers at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount near Al-Aqsa Mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem. . . "

* . . . urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Lebanon ... "

* . . . urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Beirut. . . "

* . . . urged cutoff of economic aid to Israel if it refused to withdraw from its occupation of Lebanon. . . "

* . . . condemned continued Israeli settlements in occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, denouncing them as an obstacle to peace. . . "

* . . . deplores Israel's brutal massacre of Arabs in Lebanon and urges its withdrawal. . . "

* . . . condemned Israeli brutality in southern Lebanon and denounced the Israeli 'Iron Fist' policy of repression. . . "

* . . . denounced Israel's violation of human rights in the occupied territories. . . "

* . . . deplored Israel's violence in southern Lebanon. . . "

* . . . deplored Israel's activities in occupied Arab East Jerusalem that threatened the sanctity of Muslim holy sites. . . "

* . . . condemned Israel's hijacking of a Libyan passenger airplane. . . "

* . . . deplored Israel's attacks against Lebanon and its measures and practices against the civilian population of Lebanon. . . "

* . . . called on Israel to abandon its policies against the Palestinian intifada that violated the rights of occupied Palestinians, to abide by the Fourth Geneva Conventions, and to formalize a leading role for the United Nations in future peace negotiations. . . "

* . . . urged Israel to accept back deported Palestinians, condemned Israel's shooting of civilians, called on Israel to uphold the Fourth Geneva Convention, and called for a peace settlement under UN auspices. . . "

* . . . condemned Israel's . . incursion into Lebanon. . . "

* . . . deplored Israel's . . . commando raids on Lebanon. . . "

* . . . deplored Israel's repression of the Palestinian intifada and called on Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinians. . . "

* . . . deplored Israel's violation of the human rights of the Palestinians. . . "

* . . . demanded that Israel return property confiscated from Palestinians during a tax protest and allow a fact-finding mission to observe Israel's crackdown on the Palestinian intifada . . . "

* . . . called for a fact-finding mission on abuses against Palestinians in Israeli-occupied lands. . . "

[Warham]

Originally posted by FORD
So last week, you asked God to forgive you for voting for Chimpy, now you're saying He was in on the fraud?? :confused:

I'm not saying God's in on any fraud, FORD. I'm saying that God can use that 'fraud' for his own purposes.

Big difference!

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by WAR
How could the Jews fulfill that prophecy themselves? Were they in any situation to take their property back the last two thousand years?

I guess you better hope that god isn't a native American then or you're fucked...:)

[Warham]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
So how do you know he didn't use the Nazi's for his own purposes because he fucking hates jews? I guess that's the fuckwit scum anti semetic Mel Gibson argument but by your logic it totally stands up.

If God hated hated the Jews, Sesh, the Nazis would have won!


This living god idea just falls over at every hurdle because if this god does do shit then you run straight into the huge problem of why does bad stuff happen so often.

What, do you expect living a sinful world to be sheer bliss? The Bible answers all of your questions.


There are millions and millions of people in world who have and have had a much much shittier time than a kicking followed by few hours hanging on on a cross...

You don't know what that's like.


Gods great sacrifice, 1 shiity day.

Imagine your doctor phoning you to say you have cancer whilst you are at a Celine Dione concert?


Cheers!

:gulp:

What does that have to do with proving God does or doesn't exist, Sesh?

[Warham]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I guess you better hope that god isn't a native American then or you're fucked...:)

If he is, then good for me, because I'm part Native American! :D

[Warham]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Here is a list of UN Resolutions


Kind of reminds me of the story of Moses and the Exodus, and what happened after.

[Seshmeister]

Story is the word.

Exodus is completely dispproved by archeological evidence.

[Seshmeister]

The funniest biblical fuckup on that is that the place that they are meant to have fled to was owned and run by the Egypt at the time...:)

Ooops!

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by FORD
So last week, you asked God to forgive you for voting for Chimpy, now you're saying He was in on the fraud?? :confused:

holy fuck! I missed that.:eek:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by WAR
If God hated hated the Jews, Sesh, the Nazis would have won!


But then, if he loved them, we would have won FASTER! or Hitler would have been aborted...

In any case, the Holocaust began, or was intensified with systematic death camps, after the US entered the War and the unstated Nazi assumption was that they were not going to win the war. It was a ploy for revenge, because after all, the Jews treacherous stab in the back had lost the War for the Germany in WWI...

[FORD]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I guess you better hope that god isn't a native American then or you're fucked...:)


Maybe He was?

http://www.freshworship.org/files/images/Madonna%20&%20Child%20Apache.jpghttp://www.mageist.net/Images/visitofchiefs.jpg


Twas in the moon of wintertime when all the birds had fled
That mighty Gitchi Manitou sent angel choirs instead;
Before their light the stars grew dim and wondering hunters heard the hymn,
Jesus your King is born, Jesus is born, in excelsis gloria.

Within a lodge of broken bark the tender babe was found;
A ragged robe of rabbit skin enwrapped his beauty round
But as the hunter braves drew nigh the angel song rang loud and high
Jesus your King is born, Jesus is born, in excelsis gloria.

The earliest moon of wintertime is not so round and fair
As was the ring of glory on the helpless infant there.
The chiefs from far before him knelt with gifts of fox and beaver pelt.
Jesus your King is born, Jesus is born, in excelsis gloria.

O children of the forest free, O sons of Manitou
The holy Child of earth and heaven is born today for you.
Come kneel before the radiant boy who brings you beauty, peace and joy.
Jesus your King is born, Jesus is born, in excelsis gloria.


(Gitchi Manitou is the Algonquin name for the Creator, God)

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
But then, if he loved them, we would have won FASTER! or Hitler would have been aborted...

In any case, the Holocaust began, or was intensified with systematic death camps, after the US entered the War and the unstated Nazi assumption was that they were not going to win the war. It was a ploy for revenge, because after all, the Jews treacherous stab in the back had lost the War for the Germany in WWI...

Yup!

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by FORD
The only way you can get to Israel from Iran is through PNAC-occupied Iraq.

And you know that ain't happening.


But isn't that why God created missiles?

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by FORD
If God could have used the UN, He would have used them to stop the fraudulent 2000 and 2004 elections in this country.

How could the UN control the workings of US democracy? Whether it is bullshit or not I would never want an outside source watching over our elections.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
How could the UN control the workings of US democracy? Whether it is bullshit or not I would never want an outside source watching over our elections.

And what would you call outsourcing it to a private company like DIEBOLD??

[matt19]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
How could the UN control the workings of US democracy? Whether it is bullshit or not I would never want an outside source watching over our elections.

For once, I agree with you.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
But then, if he loved them, we would have won FASTER! or Hitler would have been aborted...

In God's time, that probably was fast. It says in the Bible that a day to God is like a thousand years to us.

The Israelites were slaves in Egypt for 400+ years, before God had Moses lead them out into Canaan.

[Seshmeister]

So your supreme creator of the universe not only acts in mysterious ways, he acts mysteriously very slowly.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
So your supreme creator of the universe not only acts in mysterious ways, he acts mysteriously very slowly.

We humans are notoriously impatient.

God created the universe in six days. How much faster can he work?? :D

[flappo]

the main differnce is that the jews cuntrol the media

look at spielbergs career

he made classics like jaws and the indiana jones filsm adn was ignored by hollywood

then he makes that crap schindelrs list and they cunt stick enough oscars up his jewfuck ass quick enuff

look at mel gibson - yes , the jews do cuntrol hollywood along with america and the uk

but they don't want you to know that

they work in the background , they push gullible goys up front and use us as panws in their world domination plans

[Nickdfresh]

Cuntroversial but topical thread bump!

[Seshmeister]

I was just thinking today how it was history repeating itself from Lebanon in 2006.

But I suppose Israel has been acting as a rogue state for just about my whole life.

[binnie]

Allowing the State of Israel to be formed was a huge terrible mistake which we are all suffering for now.

Yes, yes it was.

As for the difference between Nazi Germany and Israel, Israel isn't trying to invade Europe, isn't predicated on the idea of a master-race entitled to conquer all others and isn't rountinely engaging in ethnic cleansing, the execution of homosexuals, disabled and gypsies.

I take your point about the similarities between the too, and the thoroughly depressing slant this all puts on human nature, but the comparison is a little flippant if taken to the extreme.

I mean these comments in no way as a defence of Israel however, who are have acted appaulingly.

[binnie]

I was just thinking today how it was history repeating itself from Lebanon in 2006.

But I suppose Israel has been acting as a rogue state for just about my whole life.

And it will continue to do so well into the lives of our children if it is allowed to.

[knuckleboner]

Yes, yes it was.

As for the difference between Nazi Germany and Israel, Israel isn't trying to invade Europe, isn't predicated on the idea of a master-race entitled to conquer all others and isn't rountinely engaging in ethnic cleansing, the execution of homosexuals, disabled and gypsies.

I take your point about the similarities between the too, and the thoroughly depressing slant this all puts on human nature, but the comparison is a little flippant if taken to the extreme.

I mean these comments in no way as a defence of Israel however, who are have acted appaulingly.

who the hell let binnie into the front line?!



(but whoever did, don't let him out, he seems to know how to say a few things...;))

[binnie]

who the hell let binnie into the front line?!



Hehe.

I rarely post in this forum, but I used to read it a lot back in the day. Because most of the threads (quite rightly) concerned US politics I didn't have a lot to say but learnt a HELL of a lot from this site. Coming from a nation where a large proportion of the population is politically apathetic, it was always refreshing for me to see the passion that many posters on this site have for the issues of the day, even if I didn't always agree with their views.

For all of it's flaws and the feuds it creates, this forum is undoubtedly one of the Army's jewels.

[DEMON CUNT]

Hehe.

I rarely post in this forum, but I used to read it a lot back in the day. Because most of the threads (quite rightly) concerned US politics I didn't have a lot to say but learnt a HELL of a lot from this site. Coming from a nation where a large proportion of the population is politically apathetic, it was always refreshing for me to see the passion that many posters on this site have for the issues of the day, even if I didn't always agree with their views.

For all of it's flaws and the feuds it creates, this forum is undoubtedly one of the Army's jewels.

Wow!

Please feel free to maintain a higher level of participation in the Front Line.

This is a great thread. I totally for got about it. Nice find, Nick!

[LoungeMachine]

Eva Braun? I'd Hit It.

-binnie

April, 1944

[knuckleboner]

Hehe.

I rarely post in this forum, but I used to read it a lot back in the day. Because most of the threads (quite rightly) concerned US politics I didn't have a lot to say but learnt a HELL of a lot from this site. Coming from a nation where a large proportion of the population is politically apathetic, it was always refreshing for me to see the passion that many posters on this site have for the issues of the day, even if I didn't always agree with their views.

For all of it's flaws and the feuds it creates, this forum is undoubtedly one of the Army's jewels.

hey man, whatever it takes, drop by any time!

[Blackflag]

LOL! Well, Jackson Hole is a nice hideout and tax haven. Many consider it one of the most beautiful places in the US. We probably would beat Aspen if we had a bigger airport.

As for being confused. Yup, I'm moving to Germany next month. No shit. I think the world has changed. People think Wyoming is full of ranchers but that's impossible to make a living at unless you are a huge opperation. So the ranchers now machine race car parts or sell handmade horse tackle on the internet.

I'm not confused, the whole fucking world is.

This Israel/Arab bullshit aside, Jackson Hole is pretty fucking nice.

[Blackflag]

the Army's jewels.

The downside is that they're frequently in Nickdfresh's mouth. :eatit:

[LoungeMachine]

The downside is that they're frequently in Nickdfresh's mouth. :eatit:

Ahh, I see you're back in all your gloryhole finery again....

:xmas:

[Nickdfresh]

Wow!

Please feel free to maintain a higher level of participation in the Front Line.

This is a great thread. I totally for got about it. Nice find, Nick!


Thank you, I thought it was gone (along with other threads), but the search function finally works...

:guzzle:

[Nickdfresh]

The downside is that they're frequently in Nickdfresh's mouth. :eatit:


Well, somebody has to take care of those babies...

http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~richarpm/images/Pop%20singer%20Jewel.jpg

[LoungeMachine]

I like how Israel can just ignore UN Security Council Resolutions.....

Pretext for invasion and occupation by The NeoCons, aint it?

[DEMON CUNT]

Pretext for invasion and occupation by The NeoCons, aint it?

The great American conservative double standard in full effect!

[Dr. Love]

Two and a half years later and I'm still waiting for the punchline to the title. :(

[Dan]

Eva Braun? I'd Hit It.

-binnie

April, 1944

Hey Now,

Binnie Is A Member Of The Sheep Pen Too.:D

[Nickdfresh]

http://clashofthetitans.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/johnny1.jpg
"It shoots through schools..."

Israel's new wonder weapons being deployed in Gaza...

[Nickdfresh]

Why Israel's war is driven by fear
by Chris McGreal at the Gaza border

Outrage at Israeli actions has mounted across the world as the Gaza conflict goes on. But as Israel expands its military action, support for the aggressive strategy is growing, while sympathy for Palestinians is receding. And, with an election looming, political attitudes are hardening

Yeela Raanan says she would prefer not to know about the war in Gaza. She doesn't want to see the pictures of dead children cut down by Israeli shells or read of the allegations of war crimes by her country's army as it kills Palestinians by the hundreds.

But there is no escape. Raanan can hear the relentless Israeli bombardment by air, sea and land from her home, just three miles from the Gaza border. Hamas rockets keep hitting her community. And somewhere in the maelstrom of Gaza, her 20-year-old son is serving as an Israeli soldier.

"I'd rather not know. I can't do anything about it. We didn't see the pictures of the Palestinian kids who were killed. It's easier not to feel," she said. "I just turn on the news for five minutes a day and that's it, just to see if anybody says anything about my kid."

But when Raanan thinks about her son - whom she prefers not to name - she also thinks about Palestinian mothers and their sons in Gaza. And that's when she finds her herself out of sync with the neighbours. "I don't talk to the neighbours about it any more," she said. "Hamas is violent. Hamas is stupid. I don't like what they are. But I don't feel angry towards them. I understand why they were elected, I understand why they act as they do."

Attempting to understand has earned Raanan, a former operations officer in the Israeli air force, denunciations as a traitor and accusations of "selling her nation to the devil". Doesn't she love her son?, they ask.

The world has reeled in horror at revelations of Israeli atrocities as the Palestinian death toll has climbed toward 800. The International Red Cross was so outraged it broke its usual silence over an attack in which the Israeli army herded a Palestinian family into a building and then shelled it, killing 30 people and leaving the surviving children clinging to the bodies of their dead mothers. The army prevented rescuers from reaching the survivors for four days.

Israel's shelling of a UN school that had been turned into a refugee centre near Gaza city, killing 42 people who had fled the fighting, drew further accusations of indifference to civilian lives. And Israel has struggled to justify the eradication of entire families, including small children, in pursuit of Hamas officials.

But ordinary Israelis have been told little about this and when they are they generally brush it aside with assertions that it is sad but Hamas has brought it on the Palestinian people. Israel is the real victim, they say. The mainstream Israeli press has stuck firmly to the official line that it is a war of defence, a moral conflict forced on Israel by Hamas rocket fire.

The scale of Palestinian civilian casualties is played down. The dead are overwhelmingly described as terrorists. The accounts of entire Palestinian families being wiped out are buried beneath stories of the Israeli trauma at Hamas attacks.

"The news said the Israeli army had killed 100 'terrorists' and also a bomb fell and 40 lost their lives," said Raanan about the shelling of the UN school. "That was more or less the rhetoric that was used, so the focus was on the fact that we had managed to kill terrorists rather than we had also killed 40 other people. We weren't told who they were." There are alternative voices in the press, but they are mostly dismissed or shouted down. Israeli Arabs who protested against the war have been arrested for undermining national morale. Television anchormen berate critics of the onslaught on Gaza, questioning their patriotism.

The paradox of Israel is that most of its citizens tell the pollsters they agree with Raanan and the peace lobby that there should be a negotiated agreement of the establishment of a Palestinian state. But a significant number of Israelis now question whether this is possible. They view the continued conflict after Ariel Sharon pulled Jewish settlers and the military out of Gaza in 2005 as evidence that Arabs don't want peace; that giving up territory does not bring security.

Support for the vague notion of peace has been further buried under the rhetoric of the looming Israeli election, where the right in particular, led by a former prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, is playing on fear of a nuclear Iran in league with Hamas. Netanyahu, who is likely to win the 10 February ballot, has no intention of dismantling settlements or relinquishing the control that Israel exercises over the lives of Palestinians on the West Bank. He dances around the issue of a Palestinian state and has made clear in the past that what he wants to see amounts to a canton or bantustan (homeland) surrounded by Israeli control.

And so the vast number of mainstream Israelis, while saying they support peace, once again find themselves in bed with the settlers and on the side of oppression. "I hate to say we told you so," said Yisrael Medad, a prominent Jewish settler from Shilo, deep inside the West Bank. "Now you hear all the time that it was a mistake to pull out of Gaza. You hear it on the television when it was never discussed before. More of the anchors are willing to ask that question. They would never ask that a year or two ago. They used to say ours was the extreme view. Now I would say that it's the mainstream, that no matter what we have done territorially speaking it's not going to satisfy them [the Palestinians]. They are always going to attack us."

The settlers might be an extreme minority, but their views as to why Israeli soldiers are fighting in Gaza are not exceptional. Raanan lives in Ein Habsor, a moshav or cooperative agricultural community of about 1,000 people. It suffers regular hits from Hamas rockets. "In the last few days we've had two a day. In the vicinity. A couple inside. Close enough that it could have been your house," she said. No one was hurt but a student at the nearby Sapir college, where Raanan teaches public policy and administration, was killed by a Hamas rocket in February. Roni Yechiah, a 47-year-old father of four, died after the missile hit the car park.

About a quarter of the families in Ein Habsor have left. "They didn't so much go because of the rockets. It was because of the war and being really scared. They closed the schools. Those with little kids have mostly gone," said Raanan. It's not an atmosphere in which to question whether Israeli troops should be in Gaza. Most of the residents of Ein Habsor see the assault as a straightforward and necessary response to Hamas rockets, uncomplicated by issues such as occupation or the Israeli blockade of Gaza.

But Raanan does question. She wants to see a government willing to negotiate seriously with the Palestinians, and she takes the view that just because Israel is strong enough to get one over on the Palestinians, that does not mean that it is in its interests to do so. Raanan also wants other Israelis to understand what the Palestinians are suffering. "My moshav is quite right-wing," she said. "They believe in using power and they don't particularly like Arabs. I don't talk to my neighbours much about these things.

"If you do open your heart to the fact that 40 completely innocent people in a United Nations school were killed you have a very hard time. It's difficult to open your heart to that place and also hold on to wanting the soldiers to succeed. It's a very hard split in personality. I think it's necessary but it's a difficult thing to do." Raanan says Israelis have dehumanised Palestinians to such an extent that they are no longer sensitive about who they kill. "It's so difficult for them to put themselves in the place of someone who lives in Gaza. I guess you have to be able to dehumanise to be able to accept this type of war," she said.

"Israelis think of Hamas as a terrorist group and therefore anything we do to Hamas is OK. But the question is, why do we think it's OK also to kill civilians while we're killing or destroying Hamas? We rationalise; they do it to their own people. That's the rhetoric in Israel. It makes it OK to do what we're doing. In Israel we're brought up to be afraid of Arabs. It's a short step to hating them. It's unusual for people not to have hostile feelings toward Arabs, and it's racist feelings because it's a whole group."

In Shilo, Medad finds himself in agreement with Raanan on one thing. He sees Israeli public opinion as increasingly indifferent to Palestinian suffering. But he says it is because of foreign criticism of Israel's actions. "With the harshness of the criticism, they're slowly but surely turning off more Israelis to elements of humanity, consideration, so eventually they say: who the hell cares?" he said. "We don't see the human face. In that situation we can do anything we want. There's a lack of identity of who the enemy is. He's not human any more."

You might not know there was a war on while visiting Jerusalem's restaurants, Tel Aviv's frantic bars or the Azrieli shopping centre. The mall is one of the largest in Israel. Next door is the Kirya military headquarters, which houses Israel's defence ministry and the country's top military officers. The two buildings are linked by a bridge.

Through the Gaza war, Israel has accused Hamas of endangering civilians by establishing military installations in populated areas. It has been a central justification by the army for the killing of Palestinian civilians. The shoppers at the Azrieli mall see no contradiction between that claim and Israel building its defence headquarters next door to a shopping centre. "They might have a point if they attacked it," said Yoni Ahren, a computer engineer sipping coffee. "But they don't. Instead they send suicide bombers to blow us up in the mall. The Palestinians set out to kill any Jew. The Israeli army sets out to kill Hamas and, yes, innocent Palestinians get killed. But that is not why the army is in Gaza."

A soldier with Ahren, who declined to be identified because he was in uniform, said the Palestinians brought it on themselves. "They voted for Hamas and then Hamas attacked Israel so it's their problem," he said. "I don't know if this [attack on Gaza] will solve anything. Probably not. We cannot get rid of Hamas. But the lesson we've learnt is that we can't trust the Palestinians. We knew that with Arafat. Now we know it again."

That is the upside of the conflict in Gaza for Medad. He believes it could help assure the future of the West Bank settlements by reminding Israelis that control over what Israelis call Judea and Samaria is what keeps Hamas rockets from falling on Tel Aviv. "Things are changing. It's Gaza that's changed things," he said.

Shilo sits alongside the main road from Ramallah to Nablus, a long way from the "security barrier" Israel has built through the West Bank and Jerusalem. Shilo's residents are religious and mostly assert Israel's claim to all of the territory west of the Jordan river. A Palestinian presence is tolerated at best.

When Ariel Sharon pulled Jewish settlers out of Gaza in 2005, he called it a painful sacrifice for peace. Another view was that he had run out of political options and the pull-out was a way to stave off international pressure to talk to the Palestinians. What the dismantling of the Gaza settlements did not do was end the expansion of colonies on the West Bank. Shilo has grown by about 25% since 2005. The "outposts" around it, which are illegal even under Israeli law, have been expanding so fast that the "Shilo block", with about 10,000 residents, is now as large as the main settlement that was dismantled in Gaza.

Most Israelis tell the pollsters they would sacrifice Shilo for peace. But influential voices are against it, among them the man tipped to be Netanyahu's defence minister. Moshe "Bogie" Yaalon, the former military commander in the West Bank, pressed the government for months to attack Gaza, and is against a withdrawal from the West Bank.

Medad is confident that Yaalon's views will prevail. "If you don't have control over a population, you suffer. You want to call it occupation... fine. But there has to be some sort of control, supervision," he said. Yaalon recently asked: "What is the big difference between Gaza and Judea and Samaria - Judea and Samaria we can go in at night, we know where they are, and pick them up. In Gaza we can't do that."

It is a view largely shared by Netanyahu, who has called for the assault on Gaza to be carried through until it forces Hamas from power. Most Israelis may not want to go as far as Netanyahu, but he remains ahead in the polls. Even on the left, attitudes have hardened. Support for Ehud Barak, the Labour party leader and defence minister, has risen sharply because of the assault on Gaza.

Jeff Halper, a veteran peace campaigner, says this is further evidence that Israeli public opinion is principally shaped by fear. "The Israeli public is being held hostage by its own leadership," he said. "This whole idea there's no partner for peace has been internalised by Israelis. Everything has been reduced in Israel to terrorism because Israel has eliminated the political context of occupation and claims it only wants peace and has made generous offers and the Arabs always reject them."

"Seventy per cent of Israeli Jews say they don't want the occupation. They would be happy with the two-state solution. But what they say to us is: 'You don't have to talk to me about peace, I want peace. The Arabs won't let us because the Arabs are just terrorists.' There is in Israel a deeply held assumption that Arabs are our permanent enemies."

Raanan hopes not. She is counting the days until the Gaza assault is over and her son is pulled out. But the personal trauma will not be over if and when that happens. Her second son is due to be called up in six months. The way things are, he could be following his brother into Gaza.


guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2009 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/11/gaza-israel-political-attitudes)

[binnie]

Eva Braun? I'd Hit It.

-binnie

April, 1944

Well, she had a certain something..........

:D

[Sgt Schultz]

I’d like to expand upon the idea that Israel is worse than the Nazis.

The Nazis at least were equal opportunity exterminators. Sure, over the course of about 10 years they “supposedly” killed about 6 million Jews, but they also rounded up and killed homosexuals, Gypsies, Slavs, the elderly, and the mentally and physically impaired in the millions.

In contrast, over the last 60 years Israel only singles out one people – the “Palestinians” (a terms that was first used around the time of the Great War). Israel has plenty of “Palestinian” people who live right inside their own borders (20% of the Israeli population) who are also Muslim that they could much more easily round up and kill - yet they sneakily let these Israeli citizens live in peace and practice their own religion undoubtedly to lull them into a false sense of security while they plan their eventual demise.

The most insidious thing about how the Israelis plan and implement their desire for Palestinian Extermination is how they cleverly cloak their diabolical actions by paying lip service to, and giving the appearance of attempting to limit collateral damage and the death of Palestinian civilians.

As we all know these inherent Jew traits of cunning and sneakiness can be seen by their apparent refusal to invade or simply disintegrate the massive populations of Muslim Arabs and diaspora Palestinians well within the range and technological capabilities of their weapons.

At least the Nazis were honest and straightforward about their intensions. They indiscriminately carpet bombed, burned, shot, gassed, and eviscerated people of all races and nationalities and in much more impressive numbers.

Israel is also “worse” at urban genocide. The Nazis’were much better at rounding up, walling off and exterminating. The Warsaw Ghetto is a great example of Nazi efficiency. Yet the Israelis, after many decades of trying, still can’t pull of a similar masterpiece of urban extermination try as they might.

[DEMON CUNT]

I’d like to expand upon the idea that Israel is worse than the Nazis.

The Nazis at least were equal opportunity exterminators. Sure, over the course of about 10 years they “supposedly” killed about 6 million Jews, but they also rounded up and killed homosexuals, Gypsies, Slavs, the elderly, and the mentally and physically impaired in the millions.


A surprisingly interesting and witty twist on the conversation from the Schlutz!

[Andy Taylor]

Israeli's are not as bad as the Nazi's but that doesn't stop them from trying.

[Nickdfresh]

I’d like to expand upon the idea that Israel is worse than the Nazis.

...


Um, the title of the thread is "What's the Difference between Israel and Nazi Germany." (A key distinction, one going over many peoples' heads here, being that it is phrased in the form of a question rather than being a concrete statement) There's nothing about them being "Worse than," strawman...

[Nickdfresh]

A surprisingly interesting and witty twist on the conversation from the Schlutz!

Yeah, being an ignorant, he fails to know that the second largest single grouping to perish under Nazi tyranny were the Soviet Red Army POWs. To the tune of about 3.3 million. Only, they didn't get murder showers. They were starved, penned up exposed to the Russian winter, summarily executed, and exposed to disease under German "custody"...

So, why do we get pissed when the Russians pounded Georgia? It's their right, isn't it?

[Sgt Schultz]

Yeah, being an ignorant, he fails to know that the second largest single grouping to perish under Nazi tyranny were the Soviet Red Army POWs. To the tune of about 3.3 million.

Perhaps you didn't realize they were Slavs.

[Nickdfresh]

Perhaps you didn't realize they were Slavs.

Actually, Slavs are not considered to be part of the "Holocaust." The Germans didn't kill people for merely being "Slavic," or else they would have had to destroy the entire populations of Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc. Something they didn't do.

But they didn't want to feed or shelter angry young male populations of them, either...

[Sgt Schultz]

Actually, Slavs are not considered to be part of the "Holocaust." The Germans didn't kill people for merely being "Slavic," or else they would have had to destroy the entire populations of Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc. Something they didn't do.

But they didn't want to feed or shelter angry young male populations of them, either...

Not necessarily picking a fight with you over this but there was a general plan to get rid of Slavs in particular also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Slavs

[Nickdfresh]

Not necessarily picking a fight with you over this but there was a general plan to get rid of Slavs in particular also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Slavs


Firstly, while I use Wiki, take it with a grain of salt.

Secondly, the Slavs were regarded as inferiors but weren't a high priority and the article only really addressed Poland, and country that had two great misfortunes. They had a Germanic minority that was supposedly threatened by the Slavic majority and a history of border disputes/wars with Germany. In short, Germany was too effectively annex Poland and destroy its population in the next decade..

The Slavs weren't really "rounded up" --because there simply were too many of them and they were needed to be the laborers within the Reich for the decades to come...

[FORD]

Yes, yes it was.

As for the difference between Nazi Germany and Israel, Israel isn't trying to invade Europe, isn't predicated on the idea of a master-race entitled to conquer all others and isn't rountinely engaging in ethnic cleansing, the execution of homosexuals, disabled and gypsies.



I'd have to argue the ethnic cleansing part. That seems to be exactly what they are doing to the Palestinians in Gaza :(

[binnie]

I'd have to argue the ethnic cleansing part. That seems to be exactly what they are doing to the Palestinians in Gaza :(

I am in no way defending Israel's actions, in fact I think they are wicked.

However, it is not 'Ethnic Cleansing'. The day the role tanks in and beginning the killing of every single man, woman and child we can call it 'Ethnic Cleansing'.

It's a sorry situation whatever the label, however.

[GO-SPURS-GO]

It's a sorry situation whatever the label.



It sure is....

[Andy Taylor]

Well expulsion would also come under ethnic cleansing. And you can bet with each raid that some people have a reduction of the population in mind.

[Sgt Schultz]

Firstly, while I use Wiki, take it with a grain of salt....
Yes, I agree. It's simply one source of many I found quickly.


Secondly, the Slavs were regarded as inferiors but weren't a high priority and the article only really addressed Poland, and country that had two great misfortunes. They had a Germanic minority that was supposedly threatened by the Slavic majority and a history of border disputes/wars with Germany. In short, Germany was too effectively annex Poland and destroy its population in the next decade..

The Slavs weren't really "rounded up" --because there simply were too many of them and they were needed to be the laborers within the Reich for the decades to come...
Yes, you are right they were not in the same "class" and lower down in their short term "goals".

[Sgt Schultz]

A surprisingly interesting and witty twist on the conversation from the Schlutz!

Who is this?

[Nickdfresh]

The central problem is this - that Israel has killed between 800 and 900 Palestinians (I can't keep up with the death toll) to about four Israelis killed by rockets and is still fucking creating "Holocaust" menageries in their museums featuring Hamas Rocket parts which is almost comical and sickening at the same time. Not only are they insulting the intelligences of thinking adults, they're also effectively spitting on the collective grave of Holocaust victims with such trite bullshitting..

While Israel's actions are nowhere near Nazi Germany's in scale and severity, parallels still exist. Those being the use of reprisals and collective punishment of civilians. While I do not think Israel specifically targets civilians to kill them, I think there is little weight given to their lives and the mentality definitely resembles that of the Aryan "master race" culling the impure "inferior races."

On NBC News, there was a story of how two Palestinian infants were later found (still alive miraculously) in rubble clinging to their dead mothers for FOUR DAYS after their homes had been bombed and demolished. The area had been surrounded by IDF troops for that time and they REFUSED to allow the Red Cross in to check and clear the area of wounded and dead. To me, this seems like the height of callousness and disregard for human life that makes them no better than the Hamas "terrorists" they're fighting. Especially given the fact that the IDF, like many other contemporary militaries around the world, started at least partially as a terrorist group that used bombings and assassinations to achieve their ends...

[jhale667]

What's up with the not letting the Red Cross in for four days after an area is secured, pray tell? Especially with the whole (most likely screaming) babies-clinging-to dead mother scenario? :eek:

[Andy Taylor]

The same as the Israeli border patrol 'peace time' practise of not letting pregnant women and other sick people from crossing.

[DEMON CUNT]

Who is this?

None other than the DEMON CUNT! Read it and weep, Schlutz!

[Seshmeister]

Channel 4 News here owned the Israeli BS about their motivations

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7ej-h6_CQJM

The information comes from - The Official Web site of the Center for Special Israel Intelligence Community - The Israeli Intelligence and terrorism Information Center

and heres some bits;

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/hamas_e017.htm

4. An analysis of the situation on the ground indicates two distinct periods:

i) A period of relative quiet between June 19 and November 4 : As of June 19, there was a marked reduction in the extent of attacks on the western Negev population. The lull was sporadically violated by rocket and mortar shell fire, carried out by rogue terrorist organizations, in some instance in defiance of Hamas (especially by Fatah and Al-Qaeda supporters). Hamas was careful to maintain the ceasefire. The IDF refrained from undertaking counterterrorism activities in the Gaza Strip, taking only routine defensive security measures along the border fence. Between June 19 and November 4, 20 rockets (three of which fell inside the Gaza Strip) and 18 mortar shells (five of which fell inside the Gaza Strip) were fired at Israel .

whats interesting is the media is always portraying fatah as the group the west should deal with, and yet;

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/hamas_e017.pdf

16. Networks belonging to Fatah/Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades were the most prominent and central in violating the lull arrangement. Their motivation was the desire to show themselves as the standard bearers of the “resistance” (i.e., terrorism) and to send a message of defiance to Hamas, their rivals, even though Fatah in Judea and Samaria renounced the attacks.5 In certain instances the Palestinian Islamic Jihad or other organizations fired rockets. In most instances they did not publicly claim responsibility. Such attacks were motivated by deep internal Palestinian rivalries, especially between Fatah and Hamas, and not responses to “violations” on the part of Israel.

17. During the first period Hamas was careful to maintain the ceasefire and its operatives were not involved in rocket attacks. At the same time, the movement tried to enforce the terms of the arrangement on the other terrorist organizations and to prevent them from violating it. Hamas took a number of steps against networks which violated the arrangement, but in a limited fashion and contenting itself with short-term detentions and confiscating weapons. For example, a number of times Hamas’s security services detained Fatah/Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades operatives, including Abu Qusai, an Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades spokesman, who claimed responsibility for rocket fire (June 29). Detained operatives were released after a short interrogation and no real measures were taken against them. However, it was clear that throughout the first period Hamas sought to avoid direct confrontations with the rogue organizations (especially the PIJ) insofar as was possible, lest it be accused of collaborating with Israel and harming the “resistance.” Hamas therefore focused on using politics to convince the organizations to maintain the lull arrangement and on seeking support for it within Gazan public opinion (including issuing statements by its activists regarding the lull’s achievements).

[bueno bob]

I'll say this for nothing, Israel's been allowed to run amok for far too fucking long now and this bullshit needs to come to an end.

Any coincidence that this happened RIGHT BEFORE Bush leaves office and the unknown factor steps in? I don't think so.

[Nickdfresh]

I find it utterly fascinating that the Israelis ended their pogrom as fast as it began on the eve of Obama's inauguration....

[Seshmeister]

It's a wakeup for Obama.

He could lie in bed wondering if his election has already caused hundreds to be murdered...

[Nickdfresh]

It's a wakeup for Obama.

He could lie in bed wondering if his election has already caused hundreds to be murdered...

His election caused nothing, the Israelis and to an extent the pricks in Hamas did...

His inauguration stopped it though, which is a message unto itself...