Gun Control

[distortion9]

A Declaration of Civil Disobedience

I will not register my guns. If such a law is ever enacted on the federal, State or municipal level, I will choose to ignore it. I was required to leave my personal data with the gun dealer when I purchased each of my guns legally, and this data is doubtlessly on record already. Let law enforcement look it up if they choose, but I will not register my guns: not now, and not in the future. Registration of handguns, or any other firearm, will not prevent a single crime from happening. It only serves to harass the law-abiding citizen for the sole offense of owning a politically incorrect item.

I will not surrender my guns voluntarily, ever. If the possession of handguns is declared illegal by any legislative body, I will choose to ignore it. If the owners of newly or soon-to-be illegal weapons are asked to turn them in for compensation, I will not comply. Let them try to enforce a law that is not enforceable, and declare a war on guns that will be no more successful than the war on drugs that has eroded most of our civil liberties in the last two decades. If they go from door to door to ask for guns, I will deny ownership; if they break down doors to search for guns, I will do my best to make their mission difficult. Confiscation of firearms will do nothing to make society safer. It merely takes away an essential basic right from the peasantry: the right to self defense. Without the means to it, the right itself is nonexistent except on paper.

I will never again concern myself with concealed carry laws. I will carry my sidearm as I see fit, and wherever I choose, whether I am in Wyoming or New York City. I will ignore unjust laws denying me the right to determine my own fate while exempting friends and cronies of the legislature and the executive from the same laws. I will try to comply with the law whenever possible and obtain a permit whenever given the opportunity; I do not wish to be a lawbreaker if I can avoid it. But I will no longer comply with the demands of legislators who want to leave us defenseless against those who will always prey on others with the help of guns no matter what the law says.

I know that I am not alone. I am part of a growing group of citizens that are fed up with being painted as radical, violent, ignorant and bigoted. Most of us are not camouflage-wearing conspiracy theorists. We are doctors, lawyers, soldiers, carpenters, nurses, computer programmers and convenience store clerks. We are fathers, mothers, grandparents, brothers, sisters and colleagues. We are "the American people" so often quoted and invoked by politicians. We come from all walks of life, all levels of income and education, all faiths and non-faiths. We share a common anger at those who want to take our self-determination away from us, those who blame us for every senseless and over-publicized act of gun violence in this country, those who are more than willing to trade an essential liberty for the illusion of safety. We are tired of politicians who create law after law to fight actions by people who by definition do not obey laws, in order to pacify a vocal and ignorant portion of the population. We also share the belief that the responsibility for our safety is up to us, and can never be completely entrusted to an understaffed, underpaid and overworked police force that is mostly tied up in an unwinnable battle against drugs.

We do not ask for special rights, we merely ask that our right to self-defense and self-determination is respected and not undermined. We wish to be left alone, and we do not want to surrender our integrity and our means to enforce our right to life and liberty for a social experiment that has already been a massive failure in those countries who attempted it. We are citizens, not peons. We are free men and women, not serfs who exist to provide taxes to the ruling caste.

We have tried to play by rules that have turned more pointless and nonsensical by the year. We have paid the fees, filled out the forms and subjected ourselves to the background checks. We have been fingerprinted like common criminals. We have tolerated the insults and the scapegoating of some of our fellow citizens, and that of the mass media. We have, where we could, taken all the steps necessary to go armed and obey the laws at the same time. Here we draw a line in the sand. Stop harassing us, for we are not the problem. Taking our rights away from us will not solve your problems, or make us all any safer against crime. We have done what we can to work with you when you came after us year after year. We gave up our military-style sporter rifles, and society did not turn any safer. We were forced to purchase guns with crippled magazines that limited their functionality, and yet society did not turn any safer for it. Yet you come back with sure regularity, asking for more of what is ours, in return for the promise of a safer society. You pass laws because it is the only thing you can do in the face of outraged soccer moms demanding that something be done to "stop the violence'. You cater to ignorance, and you willingly chip away at the rights of a group that is perceived to have little public support--minimizing the risk of election day backlash. Everything you have done has failed to improve society, yet you return and ask for one more restriction, one more "common sense" gun law, arguing that the last round of restrictions was just not severe enough.

We are tired of it. We know that if you made all guns illegal, it would have no effect on crime and violence, but we also know that you would not turn around and return us our rights and our guns after you are proven wrong by reality.

As an individual, I will choose to disobey whenever you enact a law inconsistent with my basic right to self-defense. Try to force us into registering our guns, or giving them up altogether, just so you can garner support for your next election, and you face the responsibility for whatever happens next. Many of us will refuse to obey, and then you will have a choice between trying to enforce this law or silently ignoring those who choose to disobey it. A law that is not obeyed, and cannot be enforced, does more harm to you than it does to those you try to govern. As Albert Einstein said after the repeal of the Prohibition laws, nothing will cause more disrespect of government than the enactment of laws that cannot be enforced. And make no mistake, a general gun registration or outright ban can only be enforced by sending the police from door to door, forcefully entering those homes which refuse to cooperate. How many dead citizens are you willing to tolerate before you repent? How many police officers are you willing to sacrifice? More importantly, how much of this is the general population willing to take? The war on drugs has brought about the demise of most civil rights, a war on guns would bring society to its knees. You've declared drugs illegal, yet they are available on most every street corner in this country. What good will a ban on guns do?

Law is law, but a bad law is just that. It was the law in Germany to refuse Jews access to public air raid shelters during World War Two, and many people chose to ignore that law. I am glad they did. I value my conscience and my integrity over your seat in Congress. Therefore I declare that I will no longer obey laws that are an affront to my humanity, laws that are nothing but elitist arrogant attempts to keep arms out of the hands of the unwashed masses. Pick another group for your social experiments, like the criminals for example.

We have no intention to commit crimes of violence with our guns, and we are deeply offended by the notion that you alone can make the decision who can be trusted with a gun, and that we serfs just cannot act in a responsible fashion when given access to guns.

No registration, no confiscation. Ever. If I should ever break your laws and get caught, you can arrest me. I'd rather live in jail with the knowledge that my spirit is free, than on the outside as a tax-paying serf knowing that I only serve as a worker bee with no rights and little personal freedom. I know that I am not alone, and let's see just how many jails you can build to accomodate all those who have had enough of your failed and unjust policies.

MOLON LABE!!!!

[sadaist]

Originally posted by distortion9

I know that I am not alone.

Damn right!

[Nitro Express]

The Govt. is so fucking incompetant what makes you think they could remotely organize a national gun grab. They can't even keep Mexican bandidos from crossing the border with military weapons and vehicles.

[sadaist]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
The Govt. is so fucking incompetant what makes you think they could remotely organize a national gun grab. They can't even keep Mexican bandidos from crossing the border with military weapons and vehicles.

LMAO! Good point.

[Satan]

They sent the Blackwater mercenary thugs around New Orleans to confiscate the guns last year.

But only from the black folks, naturally. Not the White Republicans in the higher elevations.

[knuckleboner]

it's no wonder some people need guns for protection.

they're scared shitless of any mention of gun control. ;)

[distortion9]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
need guns for protection.

I do. Bad things happen to good people all the time... just open a newspaper.


Originally posted by knuckleboner
scared shitless of any mention of gun control. ;)

I am. You should be scared shitless when someone wants to take away ANY of your rights, not just the ones that concern you.

I find it odd that the liberals that are concerned with the Patriot Act and how it violates the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th and 13th Amendments are the same liberals that are trying to destroy the 2nd Amendment. The one Amendment that was put there to protect all the others.

[knuckleboner]

a) i was partially kidding.

i'm fine with the 2nd amendment. just make sure the guns are kept safely.

b) i'm concerned about ALL the amendments. but i'm not sure how most gun control policies are against the 2nd.

i really don't see how the constitution says that you have an unfettered right to have any and every type of firearm imaginable.

i don't see the current gun control laws that are in place as taking away any rights. and i don't see this concept of a national gun registry as being a serious proposal from any governmental entity. in which case, the threat of it really just amounts to scare tactics from the gun lobby.


that said, hypothetically, if there WAS a national gun registry, does that constitute an infringement on somebody's right to keep and bear arms? i don't think so.

yes, if it were used to then confiscate the guns, it would be. but i highly doubt any proposed gun registry law would include a gun confiscation provision.

in which case, the threat is yet again more scare tactics.



(mind you, i'm not saying that a national gun registry is inherently a good idea. i just don't think it's against the 2nd amendment.)

[distortion9]

ANY restriction placed on gun ownership is an infringement on your Second Amendment Right. Period.

Can you imagine what it would be like if "restrictions" were placed on the First Amendement.

Sure, you have the right to free speech but, only after you...

a. Apply for and purchase a Free Speech Permit.

b. Register yourself as a licensed Free Speaker.

c. Pay all licensing fees

d. Aquire training in the use of Free Speech.

After meeting all qualifications, you are only allowed to Speak Freely in your own home or at an authorized Free Speech range and only for the purpose of sport and or hobby.

For the record, I'd like to state that I did not write the initial post. I do agree with most of it though.

[Redballjets88]

it poses a good arguement

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by distortion9
ANY restriction placed on gun ownership is an infringement on your Second Amendment Right. Period.

Can you imagine what it would be like if "restrictions" were placed on the First Amendement.



dude, there ARE restrictions on the 1st amendment. i have the right to free speech, but i can't walk into a crowded room and yell, "fire!" nor can i go to your work and tell people that D9 is a convicted felon who embezzles.

the fact is, we've interpreted what "speech" means. (meaning we also call "expression" speech. deaf people get to write signs, even though they're not "speaking.")


same thing with the 2nd amendment. we interpret that convicted felons don't have the right to bear arms (doesn't say anything about that in the constitution.) we interpret that a 7 year old clearly was not meant to be able to buy a shotgun at walmart.


now, i'll give you that charging money for required gun licenses is semi-questionable; ability to pay really shouldn't be a factor in exercising the amendment. that said, if the fee is truely nominal, i'm not overly concerned.


but it all comes down to how we interpret the right to keep and bear arms. can a suspected (but not yet proven) terrorist sympathizer keep a nuclear warhead (technically an "arm") at his house and claim 2nd amendment protection? or do we eventually start drawing lines in what the 2nd means?


(and, yeah, i know you didn't write this. it's just a decent debate starting point. and to be honest, although my gun control opinions haven't changed here, i never thought about whether charging for a gun license is proper before. i'm not currently sure. so, if you're scoring at home, that's 1 for D9...)

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by distortion9
ANY restriction placed on gun ownership is an infringement on your Second Amendment Right. Period.

Can you imagine what it would be like if "restrictions" were placed on the First Amendement.

Sure, you have the right to free speech but, only after you...

a. Apply for and purchase a Free Speech Permit.

b. Register yourself as a licensed Free Speaker.

c. Pay all licensing fees

d. Aquire training in the use of Free Speech.

After meeting all qualifications, you are only allowed to Speak Freely in your own home or at an authorized Free Speech range and only for the purpose of sport and or hobby.

For the record, I'd like to state that I did not write the initial post. I do agree with most of it though.

I had no idea Charlton Heston was a DLR fan. Cool! ;)

[distortion9]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
I had no idea Charlton Heston was a DLR fan. Cool! ;)


Lmao...."FROM MY COLD DEAD HAAAANDS!!!!!"

[distortion9]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
dude, there ARE restrictions on the 1st amendment. i have the right to free speech, but i can't walk into a crowded room and yell, "fire!" nor can i go to your work and tell people that D9 is a convicted felon who embezzles.

the fact is, we've interpreted what "speech" means. (meaning we also call "expression" speech. deaf people get to write signs, even though they're not "speaking.")


same thing with the 2nd amendment. we interpret that convicted felons don't have the right to bear arms (doesn't say anything about that in the constitution.) we interpret that a 7 year old clearly was not meant to be able to buy a shotgun at walmart.


now, i'll give you that charging money for required gun licenses is semi-questionable; ability to pay really shouldn't be a factor in exercising the amendment. that said, if the fee is truely nominal, i'm not overly concerned.


but it all comes down to how we interpret the right to keep and bear arms. can a suspected (but not yet proven) terrorist sympathizer keep a nuclear warhead (technically an "arm") at his house and claim 2nd amendment protection? or do we eventually start drawing lines in what the 2nd means?


(and, yeah, i know you didn't write this. it's just a decent debate starting point. and to be honest, although my gun control opinions haven't changed here, i never thought about whether charging for a gun license is proper before. i'm not currently sure. so, if you're scoring at home, that's 1 for D9...)

We're not far off. You say interpret, I say common sense, it's a matter of semantics. Though, "yelling fire in a crowded theater" isn't actually a LAW....it's more like a rule.

There's a difference between "rules" and "restrictions". I don't have a problem with a decent set of "RULES" for gun ownership as I see rules more along the lines of common sense. Of course I wouldn't hand a child a loaded gun and tell em, "Eh...go play in the yard"....common sense. I could however (though I don't necessarily believe this) make an arguement for an "EX"-felon owning a gun. Did his time, gets a job, serves a period of probation....technically, he "should" be a free man with a clean slate.

As for owning military weapons, IMHO I believe that's the whole point of the Second Amendment. A way for THE PEOPLE to keep A GOVERNMENT in check. Now I don't think our founding Fathers envisioned NUKES. Just the same as I don't think they envisioned cable news the internet or even MEGAPHONES for that matter.

A terrorist sympathizer with a nuke and an agenda? Man, I don't know...I guess that's one for you lol. I don't claim to have all the answers just opinions.

In a nutshell, gun LAWS only impact those that OBEY LAWS. It's my belief that "gun control" does not work when trying to reduce crime. It pisses me off that criminals are enjoying their 2nd Amendment Right, while I am forced to obey laws that I don't agree with.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Satan
They sent the Blackwater mercenary thugs around New Orleans to confiscate the guns last year.

But only from the black folks, naturally. Not the White Republicans in the higher elevations.

:rolleyes:

I guess you didn't see all those thugs on the news carrying weapons like it was open season on other.

I guess you didn't see all the looters busting in to stores, carrying out electronics and other high priced stuff, thinking Christmas came four months early.

BTW - what was the black / white population ratio in NO back then?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
[B


I guess you didn't see all the looters busting in to stores, carrying out electronics and other high priced stuff, thinking Christmas came four months early.

[/B]


Donald Rumsfeld said it was the same looter, carrying out the same electronic item, over and over again.

It was the media's fault.



There was no looting in Iraq, er, I mean New Orleans.....

[Seshmeister]

If there is one thing I've learned about Americans is that you are all fucking nuts when it comes to guns.

A hundred times more people get killed in accidents or fuckups than in just about any other country than people that successfully defend themselves. A lot of these are children.

Why not at the very very least have it a law that every gun has to be test fired and the ballistics stored in a national database. I don't see how that impinges on your 'freedoms'.

[distortion9]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
If there is one thing I've learned about Americans is that you are all fucking nuts when it comes to guns.

Because our freedom was won by way of arms.


Originally posted by Seshmeister
A hundred times more people get killed in accidents or fuckups than in just about any other country than people that successfully defend themselves. A lot of these are children.

More children die on their bicycles per year than by gunshots. I'm talking REAL children, not 18-24 year old gangbangers that the anti gun folk like to add into their stats about "children" and guns.

The media doesn't report armed citizens successfully defending themselves, you need to know where to look to get the real facts. Here's an example of the last 3 months.

Latest Armed Self-defense News Stories:
• Man denies gun charge after killing attacker (NY)
• Wife won't be tried in husband's shooting (OR)
• Durham resident kills alleged intruder, shoots another (NC)
• Intruder shot by homeowner (PA)
• Allen County Man Scares Away Home Invader (KY)
• Grand jury to decide whether man was shot in self defense (OR)
• Man dies in Minford shooting (OH)
• Bullets scare off intruder (MA)
• Alleged intruder shot during Cape family's vacation (UT)
• Gun dealer 'upset and stressed' after shooting intruder (New Zealand)
• House owner kills burglars (South Africa)
• Man arrested in shooting death won't be prosecuted (CA)
• Stafford 5-year-old attacked Neighbors save boy from roaming dogs (VA)
• Fourteen-foot grizzly killed in Alaska (AK)
• A Man Is Dead After an Overnight Shooting (TX)
• Businessman shoots at intruder (IN)
• Sheriff investigating shooting in Doe Run (MO)
• Man catches would-be thieves (PA)
• Fatal shooting apparently in self-defense, police say (MI)
• Fifth man sought in home invasion case (Update) (SC)
• Bystander uses gun to end attacks with knife (TN)
• Jury acquits man of murder after dramatic trial (NH)
• Hurricanes Safety Shot in His Yard (FL)
• Man fires at burglar trying to ram him (CA)
• Son Shoots Man Holding Gun To His Mother's Head (CA)
• Homeowner Shoots, Kills Alleged Intruder (CO)
• Beavercreek storeowner shoots alleged burglar (OR)
• Tourist kills man who pointed gun at trooper (AK)
• Fatal Shooting in Doniphan Appears to be Case of Self-Defense (MO)
• Homeowner shoots man in attempted home invasion (TX)
• Man kills cougar in self-defense (Canada)
• Deliveryman pulls gun on robbers; holds one (NY)
• Details of Werner Park shooting revealed (LA)
• Police say resident shot would-be intruder to death (TX)
• 12 Year Old Points Gun at Burglars; Group Takes Off (SC)
• Would-Be Carjacker Thwarted by Shot of an Off-Duty Officer (NY)
• Grandmother Grabs Gun From Accused Robber, Holds Him For Police (NC)
• Suspect Killed in Robbery Attempt (NY)
• Homeowner Shoots, Kills Break-in Suspect (GA)
• Homeowner who killed teen feared burglary (OR)
• Homeowner fights off intruders with gun (AZ)
• 18-year-old carryout employee kills intruder (OH)
• Homeowner Shoots Burglar (AL)
• Woman kills man in self defense (MI)
• Would-Be Burglar Shot (MS)
• Caught on Tape: Store Owner Shoots at Robbers (SC)
• Gun-Carrying Man Foils Tenderloin Robbery (CA)
• State won't press charges in backyard shooting (FL)
• Driver wrestles gun from carjacker, suspect killed (OH)
• Police: L.I. woman shoots ex-boyfriend in her bedroom (NY)
• Off-duty officer kills gunman at sports bar (GA)
• Self-Defense Shooting Leaves One Man Dead (FL)
• Homeowner shoots intruder (OK)
• Woman fatally shoots intruder in her northeast Houston home (TX)
• Durham homicide called self-defense (NC)
• Police Say Homicide Was Self Defense (OK)
• Teen's Slaying Ruled Self-Defense (NC)
• Possible Self-Defense In One Of Fort Washington Deaths (MD)
• Concrete thrown, shots fired (NY)
• Teen shot in self defense, police say (AL)
• Man Critically Wounded; Teenage Son Arrested (TX)
• Man Shot Trying to Rob Pawn Shop (GA)
• Man turns table, gun on intruder (FL)
• Home owner charged in home invasion (Canada)
• Attempted Home Invasion Robbery Ends With Fatal Shooting (OK)
• Korea vet had surprise for intruder (IL)
• Man Shoots in Self-Defense, Police Say (TN)
• Claxton Fatal Shooting Called Self-Defense (GA)
• Off-duty officer shoots, kills gator in his backyard (FL)
• Gun-Wielding Resident Shoots At Alleged Burglars (CA)
• Argument between neighbors escalates to shots fired (FL)
• One dead, one hurt in [self-defense] shooting (AR)
• Homicide, Other Charges Dropped Against Somerset County Man (PA)
• Police won’t charge man in shooting of burglar (GA)
• Man killed after trying to force his way into 2 houses, say police (NC)


» More Stories Like This



Originally posted by Seshmeister
Why not at the very very least have it a law that every gun has to be test fired and the ballistics stored in a national database. I don't see how that impinges on your 'freedoms'.

Ballistic Fingerprinting? Much like many other gun control measures, it sounds like a good idea when it's on paper but, when applied in the real world, it quickly becomes a joke and a waste of money.

Between the years 2000-2003, Maryland "fingerprinted" 17,000 guns. Take a wild guess at how many criminals it helped to convict...nevermind, I'll tell you....NOT ONE.

And check this out. For ballistic "fingerprinting" to work like you think it will, ALL of the following must happen....



That the firearm barrel and firing pin have not been modified, replaced, deformed from normal use, or intentionally falsified with new ballistic markings.

That all 200 million firearms lawfully possessed by Americans are brought into labs and fired to gather individual ballistic "fingerprinting."

That all violent criminals, and people who might become one, also bring in their firearms for "fingerprinting."

That all ballistic "fingerprinting" files are stored in a national database.

That an expended bullet or shell casing be recovered from a crime scene.

That the bullet or shell casing conclusively match the ballistic "fingerprinting" of a firearm owned by a person stored in the database.

That the firearm has not been sold, transferred, stolen or gifted to another person.

That the person, now a criminal suspect, still possess that firearm at a current address.

Please:rolleyes:

[Seshmeister]

FACT:In 2002, there were 30,242 gun deaths in the U.S:

17,108 suicides (56% of all U.S gun deaths),
11,829 homicides (39% of all U.S gun deaths),
762 unintentional shootings (3% of all U.S gun deaths),
and 300 from legal intervention and 243 from undetermined intent (2% of all U.S gun deaths combined).
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.

FACT: In 2002, there were 1,231 gun deaths in the state of Illinois, a 5% decrease from 2001 Illinois gun deaths. The 2002 Illinois gun deaths included:

728 homicides (59% of all IL gun deaths),
466 suicides (38% of all IL gun deaths),
and 17 unintentional shootings, 6 legal intervention, and 14 of undetermined intent (3% of all IL gun deaths combined).
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.

FACT: Suicide is still the leading cause of firearm death in the U.S., representing 56% of total 2002 gun deaths nationwide. In 2002, the U.S. firearm suicide total was 17,108, a 1% increase from 2001 numbers. Total gun suicides in Illinois for 2002 were 466, a decrease of 8% from the 2001 numbers. Most suicides in the U.S. are committed with firearms.
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.

FACT: While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun in the home is 4 times more likely to be involved in an unintentional shooting, 7 times more likely to be used to commit a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit suicide than to be used in self-defense.
-A Kellerman, et al. Journal of Trauma, August 1998; Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu.Rev Public Health. 1991; 12:17-40.)

FACT: A gun in the home increases the risk of homicide of a household member by 3 times and the risk of suicide by 5 times compared to homes where no gun is present.
-Kellerman AL, Rivara FP, Somes G, et al. "Suicide in the Home in Relation to Gun Ownership." NEJM. 1992; 327(7):467-472)

FACT: Contrary to popular belief, young children do possess the physical strength to fire a gun: 25% of 3-to-4-year-olds, 70% of 5-to-6-year-olds, and 90% of 7-to-8-year-olds can fire most handguns.
-Naureckas, SM, Christoffel, KK, et al. Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, 1995.

FACT: Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:

373 people in Germany
151 people in Canada
57 people in Australia
19 people in Japan
54 people in England and Wales, and
11,789 people in the United States
(*Please note that these 1998 numbers account only for HOMICIDES, and do not include suicides, which comprise and even greater number of gun deaths, or unintentional shootings).

- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


FACT: Among 26 industrialized nations, 86% of gun deaths among children under age 15 occurred in the United States.

- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

FACT: Contrary to popular belief, young children do possess the physical strength to fire a gun: 25% of 3 to 4 year olds, 70% of 5 to 6 year olds, and 90% of 7 to 8 year olds can fire most handguns.

- Naureckas, SM, Christoffel, KK, et al. Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, 1995

FACT: Taxpayers pay more than 85% of the medical cost for treatment of firearm-related injuries.

- Martin M, et al. "The Cost of Hospitalization for Firearm Injuries." JAMA. Vol 260, November 25, 1998, pp 3048, and Ordog et al. "Hospital Costs of Firearm Injuries." Abstract. Journal of Trauma. February 1995, p1)

FACT: While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun kept in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in a homicide, suicide or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense.
- Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu. Rev. Public Health. 1991; 12:17-40

[Seshmeister]

Makes no odds to me, have fun but it's stupid.

[Seshmeister]

You're all nuts.

Everyone in the US has a heart attack about cleanliness in restaurants, sue fucking McD's for coffee being too hot, throw away all your freedom over 9-11 but statistically it's all irelevant shit compared to your love of guns.

If that's what everyone wants then great but I don't think most people can grasp the facts.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
You're all nuts.


Lookit this maniac!:eek:

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sO4IxtkFHac"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sO4IxtkFHac" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[distortion9]

You're really going to have to do better than getting your numbers from "The Brady Bunch". I'm not bragging but, I can rip those numbers apart with ease.

Just as an example....

"FACT: In 2002, there were 1,231 gun deaths in the state of Illinois, a 5% decrease from 2001 Illinois gun deaths. The 2002 Illinois gun deaths included:

728 homicides (59% of all IL gun deaths),
466 suicides (38% of all IL gun deaths),
and 17 unintentional shootings, 6 legal intervention, and 14 of undetermined intent (3% of all IL gun deaths combined).
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005."

Illinois has some of the strictest gun control laws in the Country. As a matter of fact, I believe they have THE strictest gun control laws, see HERE (http://www.handgunlaw.us/) and HERE (http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/f/gunlaws_il.htm) .

Trust me, you do not want to get your facts from the Brady Bunch. If anyone is interested in knowing the REAL FACTS, LOOK RIGHT HERE. (http://www.keepandbeararms.com/downloads/GunFacts_v3.2.pdf) Get back to me after you read that.

[distortion9]

Originally posted by rustoffa
Lookit this maniac!:eek:

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sO4IxtkFHac"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sO4IxtkFHac" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

LMFAO!!! That kicks ass.

Check this out though (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5854686068870249151)

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by distortion9
LMFAO!!! That kicks ass.

Check this out though (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5854686068870249151)

HAHAHAHA!!! I'm halfway through it!!!

Holy shit!!

[Nickdfresh]

Yeah, and if some asshole "doesn't want to register his (car)," and hits your kid with it, what you say then?

[Satan]

What the fuck is the purpose of those last two videos?

Just to show how fucking stupid rednecks look when they're wasting ammo for no good reason?

I guess you could call the second one "target shooting"...... if you were a Hollywood stunt coordinator and not a fat guy with a little kid.

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by Satan
wasting ammo for no good reason?


Somebody post a snuff clip for Satan!
:D

[distortion9]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yeah, and if some asshole "doesn't want to register his (car)," and hits your kid with it, what you say then?

Should I be less heartbroken if the car was registered? I honestly don't get your point, expound please.

[distortion9]

Admit it Santa....it looks like fun.

[stringfelowhawk]

I had to do a double take when I read the first post.

Shit! I thought it was another "signing statement"!!!!!

[Dan]

Originally posted by distortion9
LMFAO!!! That kicks ass.

Check this out though (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5854686068870249151)

WTF?:D

Nice shooting.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
You're all nuts.

Everyone in the US has a heart attack about cleanliness in restaurants, sue fucking McD's for coffee being too hot, throw away all your freedom over 9-11 but statistically it's all irelevant shit compared to your love of guns.

If that's what everyone wants then great but I don't think most people can grasp the facts.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Rights, Rights, Rights......

Living in a country with cameras on every corner spying on its citizens, with a medical system controlled by bean counters that decides who lives and dies, it is no wonder you feel this way. Your government has you under its thumb. Sing along with Mick: "Under its thumb, the government has me down..."

:cool:

[thome]

Originally posted by Satan
They sent the Blackwater mercenary thugs around New Orleans to confiscate the guns last year.

But only from the black folks, naturally. Not the White Republicans in the higher elevations.

Is your -Mantra- against everthing that has to do with individuality
and the freedom to express ideas/the person who stands up for
individuality and the rite to home ownership protection or personal freedoms.

Please, do not reply with I am Satan we will be seeing each other in Hell because i am the bezzle boobie.
----------------------------------------------
Buy your guns at garage sales and from friends that's all i'm saying.

the freedom for me to carry, conceal, own, use, trade, admire
weapons does not come from the constitution of the united states or the bill of rites it comes from me .

I do feel that weapons of mass destruction such as hand grenades and mines and tnt and rpg's should be strictly controlled by our government.

Any hand or shoulder fired or machinegun even 50 cal is cool with me.
(anything that fires a bullet).Basting things 2500 meters down range is so much fun.

[Guitar Shark]

Good Lord... Brian's signature is far more annoying than Dave's Dick's ever was.

[Satan]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Good Lord... Brian's signature is far more annoying than Dave's Dick's ever was.

.....And even the Devil said "AMEN"

[Satan]

Originally posted by thome
Is your -Mantra- against everthing that has to do with individuality
and the freedom to express ideas/the person who stands up for
individuality and the rite to home ownership protection or personal freedoms.

Please, do not reply with I am Satan we will be seeing each other in Hell because i am the bezzle boobie.
----------------------------------------------
Buy your guns at garage sales and from friends that's all i'm saying.

the freedom for me to carry, conceal, own, use, trade, admire
weapons does not come from the constitution of the united states or the bill of rites it comes from me .

I do feel that weapons of mass destruction such as hand grenades and mines and tnt and rpg's should be strictly controlled by our government.

Any hand or shoulder fired or machinegun even 50 cal is cool with me.
(anything that fires a bullet).Basting things 2500 meters down range is so much fun.

Do not put words in the Devil's mouth, mutant one.

For I have not said anything in this thread which takes a position on the gun control issue one way or the other.

But since you seem to want my Most Unholy views on record, then here it is.

Sane, law abiding adult American citizens should be able to own a reasonable number of firearms. Gun owners should be licensed the same way car owners should be licensed and for the same reason. Gun shows and private sales should be subjected to the same laws as retail gun stores, because these venues have been KNOWN in the past to sell weapons to psychotic killers such as the Columbine kids, and the guy who shot up the Jewish day care in LA a few years ago. That asshole, for example, had both a criminal record and a history of committment to mental institutions. On top of that, he was once employed as a "security guard" at the Aryan Nations racist compound in Hayden Lake Idaho.

Three good reasons why he should have NEVER been allowed access to a sharp stick, let alone a semi-automatic weapon.

[Nitro Express]

Gun Control means not cumming too soon.

[Nitro Express]

This my rifle this is my gun. This one is for fighting this one is for fun...

[thome]

Originally posted by Satan
Do not put words in the Devil's mouth, mutant one.

For I have not said anything in this thread which takes a position on the gun control issue one way or the other.

But since you seem to want my Most Unholy views on record, then here it is.

Sane, law abiding adult American citizens should be able to own a reasonable number of firearms. Gun owners should be licensed the same way car owners should be licensed and for the same reason. Gun shows and private sales should be subjected to the same laws as retail gun stores, because these venues have been KNOWN in the past to sell weapons to psychotic killers such as the Columbine kids, and the guy who shot up the Jewish day care in LA a few years ago. That asshole, for example, had both a criminal record and a history of committment to mental institutions. On top of that, he was once employed as a "security guard" at the Aryan Nations racist compound in Hayden Lake Idaho.

--------------------------

4 Billion kids did not take a gun to school today or any other day ......ever.

6 billion humans did not climb into a clock tower and start -plinking-
pencil neck geeks.

Why should the world and all it's inhabitants bow to the abnormal..?


-------------------------------------




Three good reasons why he should have NEVER been allowed access to a sharp stick, let alone a semi-automatic weapon.



Your argument is understandable and other than mine.

[Angel]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
You're all nuts.

Everyone in the US has a heart attack about cleanliness in restaurants, sue fucking McD's for coffee being too hot, throw away all your freedom over 9-11 but statistically it's all irelevant shit compared to your love of guns.

If that's what everyone wants then great but I don't think most people can grasp the facts.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Don't forget Sesh... They all have that right to bear arms, they have to be able to defend themselves if the British Crown ever decides to come back after them. (Picture Liz et al... ;))

[Matt White]

http://www.jpfo.org/bumpers-righthand.jpg

http://gifu.cool.ne.jp/gunnuts/img/gun_control_works2.JPG

http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/s_solution2.jpg

[Phil theStalker]

NWO read dis thread. Gun ownership is a national lifestyle t2o Americans.

People, you have the power in your hands t2o take back your government in an emergency. Let's hope you never need t2o use it.


:spank:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Rights, Rights, Rights......

Living in a country with cameras on every corner spying on its citizens...

:cool:

LOL What's a matter with that Brie, didn't Bush say it was needed in order to spy on the terrorists yet?

Quite an ironic statement from a guy that loves NSA surveillance.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by distortion9
Should I be less heartbroken if the car was registered?

I honestly don't get your point, expound please.

No. But it's a hell of a lot less likely to happen if only trained, semi-educated, physcologically balanced individuals are allowed access to automobiles. Same thing with guns. Why such the double standard in this country?

Do you bitch this much about having to pass a test, register your car(s), getting a licence, and insurance to drive what is potentially a lethal weapon in the hands of a drunk or a psycho sidewalk-rammer?

Any appliance capable of doing as much social harm as a firearm needs to be regulated.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Rights, Rights, Rights......

Living in a country with cameras on every corner spying on its citizens, with a medical system controlled by bean counters that decides who lives and dies, it is no wonder you feel this way. Your government has you under its thumb. Sing along with Mick: "Under its thumb, the government has me down..."

:cool:

More ignorance Brian.

So a lot of city centres have CCTV cameras so that if you are assaulted you can get a conviction. That's taking rights away from scum muggers. What exactly do you do when you are wandering about the shops or bars at night that you don't want filmed? Who gives a fuck? You are in a public place.

Your fucking government now allows the tapping of phones without even a warrant!

You can have private health insurance in the UK if you want. I'd rather my tax money went on Healthcare than crazy corrupt defence procurements.

Also when I get ill I don't want to have to rely on an insurance company not deciding to rip me off on some small print clause when I'm at my most vunerable. More importantly if my kids get ill I get world class treatment for them with no limits and I don't have to worry about having to lose my house.

My friend from Virginia's insurance company suddenly decided that it wouldn't pay for speech therapy even for stroke victims, nearly bankrupted him until eventually after 5 years of lawyers getting rich a class action beat them.

Don't preach to me about healthcare in the US.

The US was independantly rated as having the 25th best healthcare in the world. That's a fucking disgrace.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[ELVIS]

I don't even have health insurance...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ELVIS
I don't even have health insurance...

Jesus! You're a nurse and they can't even give you that much! What the fuck are you in Louisiana for?

[Seshmeister]

Elvis Louisiana from everything I've read and seen seems to be a fucking hellhole of nightmare government and police.

Why did you ever move there?

I wouldn't even visit it.

[ELVIS]

When I get out of school, I'm outta here...

I daydream of living and retiring in the southwest United States, possibly Arizona or New Mexico...

I'm leaving tuesday morning for a 33 day vacation starting at the north rim of the Grand Canyon and sort of zig zagging throughout the southwestern states...

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Elvis Louisiana from everything I've read and seen seems to be a fucking hellhole of nightmare government and police.

And it's probably actually worse than you read...

Why did you ever move there?

My parents lived here when I moved back in with them to attend nursing school in 1988...

I wouldn't even visit it.

New Orleans and certain parts of South Lousy-ana are worth visiting, I think...

[Seshmeister]

I wanted to go to New Orleans a few years ago but chatting online to you on MSN or whatever about the cops and stuff put me off a bit.

Then after the whole Katrina thing and everything else means I would only go there if it was for work. Not because of the weather but the whole fucked upness.

I didn't realise your folks were down there, I thought they were in up in the NW.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[ELVIS]

Well, hopefully New Orleans will evolve into much better place than it was pre-Katrina, but I think the money will grow legs and walk away...

It's already starting to...

The potential for corruption is enormous...