China Blasts Satellite, USA Gets Pissy

[pflo]

WTF? Does the USA claim ownership of all space surrounding the Earth now? What the fuck is going on? If the US has a satellite hovering over my country and I dont like it, I SHOULD damn well blast it into oblivion, if I have developed the tech. AGAIN US hypocrysy at its finest. AGAIN the standard "We can defend ourselves you dont have that right" . This mentality is digging the states into a DEEP hole......Like I said before, if the US wants to tango with China, they will get ass raped. Mark my words. Careful now ,Chimpy cnn

[LoungeMachine]

No link, no story?

Lazy fucking Canuck

[LoungeMachine]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/19/asia/web.0119chinatest.php

China tests anti-satellite weapon, unnerving U.S.

By WILLIAM J. BROAD and DAVID E. SANGER Published: January 18, 2007

China successfully carried out its first test of an anti-satellite weapon last week, signaling Beijing's resolve to play a major role in military space activities and bringing expressions of concern from Washington and other capitals, the Bush administration said today.

Only two nations — Russia and the United States — have previously destroyed spacecraft in anti-satellite tests, most recently when Washington did so in the mid 1980s.

"This is the first real escalation in the weaponization of space that we've seen in 20 years," said Jonathan McDowell, a Harvard astronomer who tracks rocket launchings and space activity. "It ends a long period of restraint."

The White House said the United States and other nations had "expressed our concern regarding this action to the Chinese." Despite its protest, the Bush administration has long resisted a global treaty banning such tests because it says it needs freedom of action in space.

At a moment that China is modernizing its nuclear weapons, expanding the reach of its navy and sending astronauts into orbit for the first time, the test appears to mark a new sphere of technical and military competition. American officials complained today that China made no public or private announcements about its test, despite repeated requests by American officials for more openness about their actions.

In theory, the test means Beijing can now target American spy satellites, which orbit below an altitude of 500 miles. In its test, China launched a missile that destroyed an aging weather satellite at roughly that altitude. Experts said remnants of the destroyed Chinese satellite could threaten to damage or destroy other satellites for years or even decades to come.

Arms control experts called the test a troubling development that could foreshadow either an anti-satellite arms race or, alternatively, a diplomatic push by Beijing to force the Bush administration into negotiations on a weapons ban.

"It could be a shot across the bow," said Theresa Hitchens, director of the Center for Defense Information, a private group in Washington that tracks military programs. "For several years, the Russians and Chinese have been trying to push a treaty to ban space weapons. The concept of exhibiting a hard-power capability to bring somebody to the negotiating table is a classic cold war technique."

In late August, President Bush authorized a new national space policy that ignored calls for a global prohibition on such tests and asserted the need for American "freedom of action in space." Ms. Hitchens and other critics have accused the Bush administration of conducting secret research on advanced anti-satellite weapons using lasers, which are considered a far speedier and more destructive way of destroying satellites than the cruder weapons of two decades ago.

The White House statement, issued by the National Security Council, said China's "development and testing of such weapons is inconsistent with the spirit of cooperation that both countries aspire to in the civil space area."

An administration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of intelligence information, said the Chinese missile launch was detected by the United States in the early evening of Jan. 11, which would have been early morning on Jan. 12 in China. American satellites tracked the launch of the medium-range ballistic missile, and later space radars saw the debris and noted that the old weather satellite had vanished.

The anti-satellite test was first reported late Wednesday on the Web site of Aviation Week and Space Technology, an industry magazine. It said intelligence agencies had yet to "complete confirmation of the test."

The Chinese test, the magazine said, appeared to employ a ground-based interceptor that used the sheer force of impact rather than an exploding warhead to shatter the satellite into a cloud of debris.

Dr. McDowell of Harvard said the satellite is known as Feng Yun, or "wind and cloud." Launched in 1999, it was the third in a series. He said that the satellite was a cube measuring 4.6 feet on a side, and that its solar panels extended some 28 feet. He added that it was due for retirement sometime soon but still appeared to be electronically alive — making it an ideal target.

"If it stops working," he said, "you know you have a successful hit."

David C. Wright, a senior scientist at the Union of Concerned Scientists, a private group in Cambridge, Mass., said he calculated that the Chinese satellite shattered into 800 fragments 4 inches wide or larger, and millions of smaller pieces.

Jianhua Li, a spokesman at the Chinese embassy in Washington, said he had heard about the anti-satellite report but had no statement or information.

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[LoungeMachine]

Re: China Blasts Satellite, USA Gets Pissy





We will be at war with China someday.....

And it will be about oil, of course.......

[Seshmeister]

Or the US deciding not to pay the debt Bush has run up.

Most wars are about money.

The one good thing about it is that the Chinese like the Russians before them are pretty athiest.

The whole Mutually Assured Destruction of nuclear deterrance works in that mindset.

This is part of the reason that a lot of people get worried when the US keeps electing religious nuts. North Korea is a nutty pplace but again chances are ok.

It's the superstitious people you have to worry about that think being dead is a good thing.

Cheers!

[Nitro Express]

We are already at war with China. They opened up their markets to appeal to our greed. In the process they have stollen our technology, ruined our capacity to produce, and built up their economy and military at the same time.

I have known Chinese people my whole life and have been to China many times. They think long-term and what has been going on since 1980 is no accident.

When I took Calculus I and II in college, half the class were Chinese exchange students. There was no curve, because those people got 100% on all their tests. I saw the govt. encouraging the people to better themselves through economic persuits and education while keeping a tight reighn on things with the police and military.

25 years ago, I say the new giant ready to pounce and it was The People's Republic of China.

We are at war and the way things are going, they will be very tough competition if we ever do get in a shoot em up bang confrontation with them because they are buying up the world's natural resources and make everything.

I guess we can throw our social workders and lawywers at them in a mass wave attack.

[WACF]

I believe the largest invester in US dollars is China....

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by WACF
I believe the largest invester in US dollars is China....

I believe you to be correct...

[knuckleboner]

Re: China Blasts Satellite, USA Gets Pissy

Originally posted by pflo
WTF? Does the USA claim ownership of all space surrounding the Earth now? What the fuck is going on? If the US has a satellite hovering over my country and I dont like it, I SHOULD damn well blast it into oblivion, if I have developed the tech. AGAIN US hypocrysy at its finest. AGAIN the standard "We can defend ourselves you dont have that right" . This mentality is digging the states into a DEEP hole......Like I said before, if the US wants to tango with China, they will get ass raped. Mark my words. Careful now ,Chimpy cnn

has nothing to do with the U.S. claiming ownership of space. in fact, it's quite the opposite. we claim that NO ONE has ownership of space; so a communications satellite in orbit is property that shouldn't be shot down by anybody.


however, the real reason the U.S. is lodging a protest over this is because it's a direct action towards the U.S. china's not trying to prove it can knock down malaysian satellites. it's saying to the U.S. that if a hostile incident occurs, the U.S. can't necessarily rely upon its global communications / intelligence gathering network.

we're understandably concerned, but realistically, china's understandably demonstrating their own capabilities. in a way, THIS is deterence. china is saying that any attack on it will not be so easy, so don't try.

[Seshmeister]

Protectionism doesn't work.

All the West can do is be better technically.

It's all about educating the fuck out our kids otherwise we're fucked.

[VanHalener]

Originally posted by Seshmeister

It's all about educating the fuck out of our kids otherwise we're fucked.

You said a mouthful there!

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[pflo]

Re: Re: China Blasts Satellite, USA Gets Pissy

Originally posted by knuckleboner
has nothing to do with the U.S. claiming ownership of space. in fact, it's quite the opposite. we claim that NO ONE has ownership of space; so a communications satellite in orbit is property that shouldn't be shot down by anybody.


however, the real reason the U.S. is lodging a protest over this is because it's a direct action towards the U.S. china's not trying to prove it can knock down malaysian satellites. it's saying to the U.S. that if a hostile incident occurs, the U.S. can't necessarily rely upon its global communications / intelligence gathering network.

we're understandably concerned, but realistically, china's understandably demonstrating their own capabilities. in a way, THIS is deterence. china is saying that any attack on it will not be so easy, so don't try.

And rightly so. Your first point is complete bollocks, though. IT WAS THEIR OWN SATELLITE!! If space is owned by no one, as you wrongly claim is the US position, do you think the US would allow other countries to position spy sats over north america like the US does over the east? i think not. Read the quote from YOUR govt - "Under a space policy authorized by President Bush in August, the United States asserts a right to "freedom of action in space" and says it will "deter others from either impeding those rights or developing capabilities intended to do so." WHAT is unclear about that? Sounds like a claim of ownership to me. "Freedom of Action"...hmmm , what exactly does "action" entail? Pretty open ended and vague. Bush sure is an arrogant little fuck...You guys need to kick that cunt out NOW.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Protectionism doesn't work.

All the West can do is be better technically.

It's all about educating the fuck out our kids otherwise we're fucked.

I should run on that platform...

[pflo]

For nearly a half-century, the cooperative and peaceful use of space has yielded immense benefits to humans worldwide. Although space has been "militarized"—military satellites have been deployed for purposes ranging from the verification of arms control treaties to providing targeting information to military forces on Earth—it has not yet been "weaponized." Despite Cold War tensions and the technical capability to do so, no nation has deployed destructive weapons in space or destroyed the satellites of another nation.

However, this norm may be breached in the near future. The Bush administration appears to have a serious interest in anti-satellite (ASAT) weapons, and the Pentagon has announced its intention to pursue a testbed for space-based missile defenses by 2008. The testbed deployment would entail putting one or more missile-targeting interceptor satellites into orbit.

Weapons in space are likely to be politically destabilizing. They may threaten the commercial, scientific, and military use of space, all without clearly reaping their intended security benefits. The international community, notably including Russia and China, Canada, and the countries of the European Union, supports creating a treaty to ban weapons from outer space. Serious multilateral discussion about "rules of the road" for space is needed.

Which rules and norms are established is especially important for the United States, the country most reliant on space assets. The United States owns and operates the vast majority of satellites orbiting today, and space has become critical to US economic, scientific, and military interests. Though the United States and the former republics of the Soviet Union have long dominated the use of space, currently many states are investing in space assets and have developed or are developing the ability to use space peacefully.

Insight into the Bush administration’s troubling plans can be found in the January 2001 report of the Commission to Assess United States National Security Space Management and Organization, chaired by Donald Rumsfeld shortly before he became Secretary of Defense. Although the report stresses defensive space operations, it endorses also the notion of "space control" and specifically calls for anti-satellite technology, stating that "The U.S. will require means of negating satellite threats, whether temporary and reversible or physically destructive."



related links




offsite
Commission to Assess United States
National Security Space
Management and Organization

The Outer Space Treaty of 1967
A long-established norm has kept destructive weapons from being stationed in space or being used against space-based targets. The Outer Space Treaty of 1967, signed by more than 90 countries including the United States, bans weapons of mass destruction from space and stipulates that "The exploration and use of outer space…shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries, irrespective of their degree of economic or scientific development, and shall be the province of all mankind…[and] shall be guided by the principle of co-operation and mutual assistance…"

A number of other relevant treaties and international agreements exist, but the legal framework addressing space weaponization is far from comprehensive. Continuing the peaceful use of space will require cooperation among space-faring states and refined international laws and means of dealing with conflict.

UCS's project on space weapons is intended to analyze the range of technical issues underlying the development, use, and control of space weapons, and to use this analysis to develop recommendations for US and international policy on these issues.

[Nickdfresh]

Re: Re: Re: China Blasts Satellite, USA Gets Pissy

Originally posted by pflo
And rightly so. Your first point is complete bollocks, though. IT WAS THEIR OWN SATELLITE!! If space is owned by no one, as you wrongly claim is the US position, do you think the US would allow other countries to position spy sats over north america like the US does over the east? i think not. Read the quote from YOUR govt - "Under a space policy authorized by President Bush in August, the United States asserts a right to "freedom of action in space" and says it will "deter others from either impeding those rights or developing capabilities intended to do so." WHAT is unclear about that? Sounds like a claim of ownership to me. "Freedom of Action"...hmmm , what exactly does "action" entail? Pretty open ended and vague. Bush sure is an arrogant little fuck...You guys need to kick that cunt out NOW.

Um. actually the US DOES ALLOW foreign nations to send satellites over its territory, we don't have much choice. You can Google Russian pics of "Area 51" on the interweb.

The US and former Soviet Union both signed a moratorium on anti-satellite weapons, largely because when you blow them up, debris is scattered around orbit for up to hundreds of years making space flight more difficult and hazardous.