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Guitar Shark
04-17-2007, 11:47 AM
Have you considered doing this, Dave?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003669245_taxresist17.html

Increasingly, war tax resisters defy IRS over Iraq war

By Wayne Woolley
Newhouse News Service

Bryan Nelson's federal tax return says he owes $3,082. So he mailed his 1040 form to the IRS in time to meet today's filing deadline. But for the second year in a row, Nelson did not send what he owes.

His reason: "I wasn't going to pay for an illegal war in Iraq."

Nelson, 26, of New Brunswick, N.J., told the IRS that in a letter included with his 2006 tax return and did the same thing last year, when he owed about $1,100. Both times, he included a list of charities to which he sent the money instead. One is an organization that aids wounded war veterans.

In taking this step, Nelson joined an estimated 10,000 Americans who will not pay federal taxes or pay only a portion of what they owe as a means of protesting the Iraq war or the nation's defense expenditures.

The IRS says opposition to government policies is no excuse for not giving Uncle Sam his due.

"Taxpayers have a right to express their opinions," the agency said. "The actions of expressing your opinion and also fulfilling your legal responsibilities of filing and paying taxes on a timely basis are separate issues."

Nelson, a union organizer, considers his action one of civil disobedience. He knows his decision could lead to penalties, including fines or jail.

"It's a serious act to violate the law," he said. "I respect the law and the tax system. I'm not trying to evade taxes. I'm just trying to minimize my complicity in what the government is doing."

Although there is no evidence that opposition to the war in Iraq portends an increase in people who practice war-tax resistance, there are signs it is stoking interest in the practice, which dates to the Revolutionary War.

The renewed interest is being tracked by Ed Hedemann, 62, of Brooklyn, who helped found the National War Tax Resistance Coordinating Committee in 1982.

Hits on his organization's Web site have grown from about 150 a day three years ago to about 800 a day.

"Obviously, not everybody who looks at our site is going to participate in war-tax resistance, but this is at least an indication of the interest," Hedemann said.

Another sign of interest is the introduction of legislation in Congress to allow people opposed to military spending on religious or moral grounds to have their tax dollars go to federal agencies not involved in defense.

The legislation, which has been introduced in every congressional session since 1972, is expected to have 45 co-sponsors this year, the largest ever, according to the National Campaign for a Peace Tax Fund, a Washington organization lobbying for the measure.

People like Hedemann aren't waiting for a change in the tax code. The peace activist hasn't sent the IRS a dime since 1970 and instead has forwarded the $70,000 he owes for his work as a freelance writer and photographer to charity. The government has yet to collect. In general, the IRS cannot collect personal income taxes owed for more than 10 years.

"Sure, they come after me on a regular basis," he said. "But one of the things that helps me is that I file. I don't do anything funny with my forms. Plus, I'm self-employed and don't make a lot of money."

The closest the government came was in 1999, when Hedemann ended up in federal court. He escaped having to pay what the IRS said he owed.

Peter Goldberger, the lawyer who represented Hedemann, was not surprised. The defense attorney who practices in suburban Philadelphia has represented dozens of war-tax resisters.

He said that in general, the IRS goes easier on war-tax resisters than on the far larger universe of people who aren't paying because they simply want to keep the money or because they are affiliated with groups that claim the federal government is not legally entitled to collect taxes.

"Some of these folks go out of their way not to earn a taxable income," Goldberger said of the war resisters. Others generally file timely returns and explain why they're not paying some or all of what they owe.

"That protects them against most of the penalties the IRS can impose. Penalties are geared toward the level of deceit," Goldberger said.

The federal government filed criminal charges against war-tax resisters fewer than 50 times since World War II.

Nelson, the New Brunswick man, expects the IRS will come after him for what he owes and is mentally prepared for the worst.

"Jail is extremely rare," he said. "But if it's the price I have to pay, it's the price I have to pay."

Hardrock69
04-17-2007, 12:23 PM
The IRS says it is no excuse.

But ask them to produce the relevant rule or regulation in the US Tax code requiring you to pay Federal Income Tax, and they will not be able to.

Fucking assholes.

:gulp:

FORD
04-17-2007, 12:30 PM
It's an absolute crime that the oil companies and "defense" contractors who are making billions off of this illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq aren't paying a God damned dime of taxes to finance it.

That should be who the IRS is going after.

DLR'sCock
04-17-2007, 01:22 PM
A local New Brunswick guy, huh?

They'll be coming for "their" money eventually though.

Guitar Shark
04-17-2007, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Hardrock69
The IRS says it is no excuse.

But ask them to produce the relevant rule or regulation in the US Tax code requiring you to pay Federal Income Tax, and they will not be able to.

Fucking assholes.

:gulp:

There are a lot of statutes and regulations creating the federal income tax. See, for example, Article I, section 8, clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution, and 26 U.S.C. § 1.

knuckleboner
04-17-2007, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
There are a lot of statutes and regulations creating the federal income tax. See, for example, Article I, section 8, clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution, and 26 U.S.C. § 1.

i've tried that before. for some reason, hardrock does not agree with it...

U.S. Code (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00000001----000-.html)

FORD
04-17-2007, 03:15 PM
Didn't the 16th amendment provide for a voluntary tax?

Which would make withholding unconstitutional

Guitar Shark
04-17-2007, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Didn't the 16th amendment provide for a voluntary tax?

Which would make withholding unconstitutional

Not to my knowledge, but that's not something I'm totally familiar with. The language of the 16th amendment clearly vests the taxing authority with Congress, but doesn't make it mandatory. If Congress exercises its right (which it has), then how could that be unconstitutional?

knuckleboner
04-17-2007, 03:35 PM
Amendment XVI:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

16th amendment (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxvi.html)

yes, this is permissive. it is entirely up to the congress to determine whether, or how to lay a tax on incomes. zero income tax, flat tax, AMT, etc. are all within the congress' power under the constitution.

and, congress DID use that authority in U.S. Code Title 26:


There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of—
(1) every married individual (as defined in section 7703) who makes a single return jointly with his spouse under section 6013, and
(2) every surviving spouse (as defined in section 2 (a)),
a tax determined in accordance with the following table:

Title 26 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00000001----000-.html)

and yes, there is a section for non-married individuals in the same code.

pretty basic stuff: constitution authorizes the laying AND collection of taxes; congress enacts. withholding is determined a part of "collecting" the tax. it's definitely constitutional.

Hardrock69
04-17-2007, 04:34 PM
Well, as I am not too interested in arguing the point, here is one minor thing to consider:

The OMB Number on From 1040 is cross-referenced in the Code of Federal Regulations to the section covering taxes by resident aliens, which, therefore, doesn't apply to most Americans

The 10th Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that the filing of an income tax return (Form 1040) and the information on the 1040 is not compelled, and, therefore, the principle that no one may be forced to waive their 5th amendment rights in order to comply with a law is not applicable to federal income tax returns.
“The [5th Amendment] privilege protects against compelled testimonial communications...”
U.S. v. Conklin(1994), WL. 504211 (10th Cir. Colo.)

No one has been able to collect the $50,000 reward offered by William Conklin (www.anti-irs.com) to anyone who can:

1) show how to file a federal income tax return without
waiving one's 5th amendment rights, and

2) identify the section of the Internal Revenue Code that
makes a typical worker liable to pay an income tax.

Responding to an inquiry by a constituent who was a tax consultant, Sen. Daniel Inouye told him that based on research performed by the Congressional Research Service, no provision of the Internal Revenue Code requires an individual to pay income taxes. He then went on, remarkably, to issue a warning that Section 7201 sets forth numerous penalties for not paying taxes owed.

However -

The key word in the above warning is “owed.” Most citizens are not required to file, so using section 7201 as he did is without merit.


Those are just a few minor items.

Now you guys continue to debate this. I am out of here.

Have a nice day.
:cool:

Nickdfresh
04-18-2007, 05:45 AM
Well, tax resisters come from a long tradition...

"Civil Disobedience" by Thoreau (http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil1.html)

EAT MY ASSHOLE
04-19-2007, 09:48 AM
Man, am I the only one who thinks CBS has a moral obligation to create a reality TV show documenting when ol' Limp Cock gets audited? :D

Hardrock69
04-19-2007, 12:46 PM
I won't get audited, goober.

You think I want the Gestapo kicking down my door?
:rolleyes:

It is my duty as an American to help pay for the operation of my government.

I may not agree with all of the foreign policy of the Federal Government, but I don't mind paying my fair share for the opportunity to live here.

Those who want to attract the attention of the authorities by pointing out in Federal Court the actual relevant sections of the Tax Code that support their opinions can do so all they want. Just because I post about it does not mean I care to follow in their footsteps...
:gulp:

I would rather live here than anywhere else, and there are enough LEGAL ways to minimize your tax hit every year that it is not such a big deal.

I mean, even since the advent of Christianity, their rule of thumb was to tithe 10 % to the church....and since I would rather not donate to churches, I will make my fair contribution to the U.S. Government.

Give unto Caesar....

Nickdfresh
04-19-2007, 06:45 PM
I cun't complain about our taxes, still much lower than in Europe and just about anywhere else. This is why some Republicans sound like such whiny biotches when they complain about high taxes...

DLR'sCock
04-20-2007, 06:27 PM
One should consider themselves very very lucky to be able to live in a system that "gives" them the opportunity to earn a large income, and if one does very very well, then you should give back to keep the system afloat.

The same thing with being born with the intellect to excel, because your existence could have turned out very very differently, and if you have intelligence and the means to do well, then you shouldn't take it for granted, because you know what, it's not all you.


So many aren't thankful or grateful though.

Big Train
04-22-2007, 11:29 AM
If your not willing to pay for services, whatever level they are and whatever provsions you don't agree with, fine.

But you shouldn't get what you don't pay for. Which means you should live in an area that doesn't recieve Dept. of Defense support. Or the Coast Guard for that matter. But you should get your mail and foodstamps on time, or with rush delivery, since you will be able to pick and choose where those dollars go yourself.

But that would be a "crazy" idea.