Your opinion on digital guitars

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

With guitars like Gibson's HD.6X-Pro Les Paul, Parker's piezo/hex utilizing guitars, and Line 6's Variax 700 model, what do you guys think about the digital guitars?


I personally think that they open up some cool doors, but they are very redundant.

HD LP --> Digital feed to Breakout Box --> Analog feed to computer ---> Converted into digital for recording onto PC.


Conventional guitar --> Analog stream to preamp/mixing box (I am going to start using the M-Audio Black Box) --> Digital


So, it just does not make a whole lot of sense. Plus, Gibson's MaGiC technology might be a bust.

What's your opinion? I know the rotharmy is full of experts, and it would be cool if you guys could weigh in.

Also, I think that these guitars aren't as reliable as the current magnetic pickup units. These things run on batteries/electricity, because they have computers on board. If any of you run Windows, you know your computer is not always 100% reliable. What happens when you're on the road and YOUR GUITAR(!!!) busts a CPU or circuit... you can't just take it to a music shop, you'd have to go to a Gibson/Line 6/Parker computer geek. However, if you were shredding on a Jackson, or whatever, you'd just replace a faulty pickup and be on your way.

That's just my take. I hope guitars don't go all digital... PLEASE GOD.


Can't one thing in our lives not be a freaking computer?


Look at the pricetags, too... I know this is temporary, as the prices go down, but it's Gibson, so maybe not :D

<img src="http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/1800/LPDGBMNH-xlarge.jpg"></img>

[BrownSound1]

These things are the anti-Christ. I'm all for technology, but how hard is it to just plug in and play a regular guitar?

[Don Corleone]

Never played one, never had any desire to play one and I doubt I ever will.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by BrownSound1
These things are the anti-Christ. I'm all for technology, but how hard is it to just plug in and play a regular guitar?

What he said. I'd rather use one of my favorite conventional guitars through an interface.
Haven't checked out an modeling software lately, but last demo I did I ended up re-tracking all the guitars with my REAL amp. The emulations were just lifeless....

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

Here's a strat that "emulates" different sounds... pure rubbish.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StratVGM3SB/

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by jhale667
What he said. I'd rather use one of my favorite conventional guitars through an interface.
Haven't checked out an modeling software lately, but last demo I did I ended up re-tracking all the guitars with my REAL amp. The emulations were just lifeless.... I´ve been fooling around with my new audio interface a lot lately. Of course, since it´s just for fun, I use as much freeware as I can get. I´ve found some amp sims that get you a decent clean or light crunch sound. Any attempts at getting a decent overdrive sound with any mentionable amount of gain failed. The high end will turn scratchy and fizzy, unless you dial it out so far that everything turns into mud. The compressors do not work well. Same kind of problem, dialed in lightly they were ok, some really hard core compression for high speed shredding et. al., no way.

Although, I spent an afternoon at a friend´s place who has guitar rig (actually paid for it) and the same is true for it.

I got some useable tone by using the overdrive from a Korg pedal before going into the computer and using a "tube amp" emulater and a few effects aqnd filters on it. The rythm guitar tone is actually ok IMHO. The lead is still missing something, it just ain´t "singing" if you know what I mean! Read my thread about it!:)

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

Yeah, the emulations are "alright", but going through a pedal, then an interface is best.

However, Garageband, and I assume Logic Pro, do a very good job.


The cool thing about these digital guitars is that you can send each individual string to a different amp.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by MERRYKISSMASS2U

The cool thing about these digital guitars is that you can send each individual string to a different amp. Nothing you couldn´t do with the help of a midi pick up and a guitar synth!

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

What exactly is the benefit of these guitars then, LOL.


A good way to waste money?

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

Oh, I can't play that effect, let me update my guitar's firmware... :rolleyes:

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by MERRYKISSMASS2U
What exactly is the benefit of these guitars then, LOL.


A good way to waste money? You just summed up Gibson´s company motto in just 6 words!

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
You just summed up Gibson´s company motto in just 6 words!

They make nice guitars, but JEEEEEZ on the price.

I love your guitar collection.... and they obviously sound great.

[indeedido]

The idea is there, like the Pod, but it is just a fad. I think it will go away, just can't be organic

[Coyote]

Got no use for a digital guitar...

I'm still trying to figure out the analog one.

[Don Corleone]

Like Indeedido said everything always goes around in cycles.

A few years back in the 90's everyone was using Midi stuff and had a nice big rack of digi effects. Then the fad switched back to real amps and pedals again. Now the trendy bit of kit to have is the POD (yes I own one as well)

This is just Gibson dipping it's toe into the water to see if theres a market for this sort of thing. Yes some session player will buy one - but I don't think they'll see many sales.

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

I can't stand digital effects... I use pedals through an amp. Digital = :( for guitars, in my opinion.


4,500 dollars is a lot of money to be a beta-tester of this guitar, though, Don.

[Wallyg]

I use a Variax 700 and a Vetta. It is the ultimate for me. The amp remembers the guitars, the amps, the post effects, stomps, etc. that you choose and they come up at the push of a button. The guitar enables me to build virtual guitars that would be physically and financially impossible to build and store them in my laptop and/or guitar. Example: I played a symphony gig (normally it's Texas blues/rock) and one song changed instruments, sounds, and keys every 16 bars for 64 bars. The first time around was a Tele in standard tuning, key of F, through a Fender, the second time was an acoustic capo'd 1st fret playing similar country fills, the third round was hollow body tone capo'd 2nd fret playing similar riffs, last was a banjo in open Ab. I played the whole thing in first position by stepping on a different preset(the guitar stores tunings) every 16 bars.
In my usual gig, it keeps me from bringing 5 guitars to every show. I play a ton of slide so I needed open d, open e, and open g, plus a Strat, and my Wolfgang. I play the Variax all night now and change tunings/pickups/guitar tone by flicking my 5 way switch or model selector switch, or by stepping on a preset tone with my footcontroller. All my tones are saved on my laptop so when we fly to play in other towns, I bring my laptop, plug it into a rented vetta, dump in my tones, and I am playing with my sounds in minutes. It beats hauling my gear or wondering what backline piece of junk Marshall I'll have to wrestle all night. I've recorded entire CD's with a POD and with my Vetta. All the commercial work(radio and TV) I do is completely DSP. It's POD, amplitube, or something like it. If you drag in an amp the producers may not ask you back. The digital modelers dont need miking, store millions of tones so it is easier for them to find what sound they are looking for, enabling reamping, and usually have digital direct outs for seamless recording. It makes the session efficient which equals $$ to them.
I own a bunch of Mesa gear and have owned Marshalls, Orange Amps, Fender Amps, etc. in the past but I hardly ever even turn them on anymore. I own Gibsons, Fenders, Wolfgangs, Steinbergers, and Taylor guitars but now they mostly reside in my closet or hang on the wall as art. Line 6 has made it easy to be versatile without all the setting up, headaches, backaches, and expensive equipment maintenance.

[ELVIS]

They suck!

I've played them...

My idea is much better...

I run an analog preamp (ADA MP1) into a digital preamp (Behringer V-Amp Pro) and from this I go simultaneously into twin Fender Hot Rod Deluxes as well as directly into my Digidesign sound card from the Behringer digital out. My sound card also has stereo RCA plugs and I'm thinking that method may sound better, in which I run XLR outs to a small Mackie board and into the RCA inputs...

This works BEAUTIFULLY into a board and our sound engineer (he calls himself that) at church cant believe the tone I get with zero feedback, unless I want it of course...

I also have the option to add outboard effects and or EQ either between the ADA and the Behringer or on the Behringer's stereo effects loop...

I'm telling you guitar wankers that I firmly believe that my method simply blows away any thing else i've heard at any budget and as soon as I get a new computer in a few weeks, I'll proove it by posting licks and samples...

I've spent years and a furtune getting to this point and I suggest YOU LISTEN UP !!

And donate to the ELVIS fund...:D


:elvis:

[ELVIS]

I know Brownsound, you frown on going digital, but in this day and age you can't avoid it if you want to record...

So, I figure why not take charge of my own digital aspect of my sound before some bonehead engineer thinks he has a better idea...:D

[ELVIS]

Hey Wally, my sound is better than yours...

Nanny nanny boo boo...:D

[Wallyg]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Hey Wally, my sound is better than yours...

Nanny nanny boo boo...:D

Thank ya .. thank ya very much..............

[kentuckyklira]

I have yet to play a gig where a hard rock or heavy metal guitarist sounded great live with Line6 gear. Sure, they´ll always sound decent, but not more. At living room levels, or maybe even in the studio, they might deliver the goods, but live, they lack the punch and pressure I´m looking for.

I want my setup to react to how hard I hit my strings, how I play with the volume pot, etc. etc. etc.. Line6 just doesn´t do it!

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Line6 just doesn´t do it!

Gigantour this year should be a real blast :(

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by MERRYKISSMASS2U
Gigantour this year should be a real blast :(

Whazzat?

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Whazzat?

Mustaine's whoring Line 6 right now... just hope the sound's not too bad.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
I want my setup to react to how hard I hit my strings, how I play with the volume pot, etc. etc. etc.. Line6 just doesn´t do it!

The setup I described does, absolutely...

And if you wanna hear a good, all digital, in your face live guitar sound, check out the latest Megadeth DVD [i]That One Night In Bunes Ares"...

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NRrY_3cgzXA"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NRrY_3cgzXA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Superb metal guitar tones and not a single tube...all prototype Line 6 stuff...both Dave and the new guy, Glen Drover...


:elvis:

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

Originally posted by ELVIS
The setup I described does, absolutely...

And if you wanna hear a good, all digital, in your face live guitar sound, check out the latest Megadeth DVD [i]That One Night In Bunes Ares"...

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NRrY_3cgzXA"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NRrY_3cgzXA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Superb metal guitar tones and not a single tube...all prototype Line 6 stuff...both Dave and the new guy, Glen Drover...


:elvis:

That's my favorite Megadeth song.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Hey Wally, my sound is better than yours...

Nanny nanny boo boo...:D

And my tone kills all of yours. So there. :D :lol:

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by ELVIS
The setup I described does, absolutely...

And if you wanna hear a good, all digital, in your face live guitar sound, check out the latest Megadeth DVD [i]That One Night In Bunes Ares"...



Superb metal guitar tones and not a single tube...all prototype Line 6 stuff...both Dave and the new guy, Glen Drover...


:elvis:

I´ve never been much of a Megadeth fan, so I can´t be an unbiased judge.

Plus, as with any star´s live setup, I´ll believe what I see after I´ve been given a tour of the stage and backstage and undoubtedly shown the stuff up there is what it´s supposed to be and also what´s gonna end up in the shops.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by ELVIS

Superb metal guitar tones and not a single tube...all prototype Line 6 stuff...both Dave and the new guy, Glen Drover...


:elvis: OK, just listened to the clip. Good guitar sound, no doubt. But, are you gonna tell me that live recording didn´t get some "cosmetics" in a studio none of us could afford before getting released??

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by MERRYKISSMASS2U
That's my favorite Megadeth song. Happy birthday, dude!

:cool:

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Happy birthday, dude!

:cool:

Thanks, señor!

I like that song, but it's kind of depressing, so people sometimes ask me why I listen to it so much.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
OK, just listened to the clip. Good guitar sound, no doubt. But, are you gonna tell me that live recording didn´t get some "cosmetics" in a studio none of us could afford before getting released??

No...


:elvis:

[Wallyg]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
I have yet to play a gig where a hard rock or heavy metal guitarist sounded great live with Line6 gear. Sure, they´ll always sound decent, but not more. At living room levels, or maybe even in the studio, they might deliver the goods, but live, they lack the punch and pressure I´m looking for.

I want my setup to react to how hard I hit my strings, how I play with the volume pot, etc. etc. etc.. Line6 just doesn´t do it!

I agree with you. I see many players using Line6 gear that sound pretty bad actually. I see many players playing Marshalls, Dumbles, Soldano's, (fill in the blank boutique amp), Bogners, Boogies, etc. that sound bad also. An amp is only as good as who is dialing it in. Line6 gear takes time and knowledge to tweak the right sounds especially because of the many variables-models/cabs/mics/stomps/postFX/routings/- involved. It takes someone with experience with rack systems, pedalboards, and many different types of amps to really get the most out of a Vetta. Most players have neither the experience nor the patience to accomplish this. I've owned mine for almost 6 years now and I'm still finding new cool sounding stuff in it (Plus they upgrade and add new amp models for free from time to time).
I've played many shows small and large with many different name brand acts who used every kind of amp. I get nothing but compliments and questions from most musicians because they haven't heard a Line 6 rig sound great. I'd put it onstage next to anyone. But in the music and art world the saying, "to each his own pal," is the bottom line. If what you or I use works for us and gets the best music out of us, it is the right tool for the job.

[DeadOrAlive]

Originally posted by Coyote
Got no use for a digital guitar...

I'm still trying to figure out the analog one.

Nobody will ever master the analog one... Too much you can do on it. Never going digital either.

[BrownSound1]

Originally posted by ELVIS
I know Brownsound, you frown on going digital, but in this day and age you can't avoid it if you want to record...

So, I figure why not take charge of my own digital aspect of my sound before some bonehead engineer thinks he has a better idea...:D

Well, it isn't so much the idea of digital that bothers me, it is just that they haven't gotten it to the point where there is some life in the tones. I think they will eventually get it, but for me it isn't quite there. For dinking around the house though I have no problem with someone using a POD or something like that. I certainly don't expect anyone to be cranking a 100 watt Plexi into the wee hours of the morning. However.....there isn't a one of these models out there that captures that vibe to a tee. Same goes for Fender or Vox models too. The Messy Booger ones, well they sound like ass anyway so who cares. :D

Now as far as recording, well I'm all about using some type of DAW, just for the editing capabilities if nothing else. Sure a good old analog tape sounds awesome, but who wants to edit with a razor blade. :D

[Steve Savicki]

Looks interesting:
<center>http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/12/gibson-hd-6x.jpg</center>

[jhale667]

Originally posted by BrownSound1
The Messy Booger ones, well they sound like ass anyway so who cares. :D



Them's fightin' words!! :lol: Nah, we've been over that in another thread...I hate everything after the MK III series. The MK IV's and Rectifiers do not do it for me. Though I do think they're getting better with the Stiletto....:rolleyes:

[BrownSound1]

Originally posted by jhale667
Them's fightin' words!! :lol: Nah, we've been over that in another thread...I hate everything after the MK III series. The MK IV's and Rectifiers do not do it for me. Though I do think they're getting better with the Stiletto....:rolleyes:

Exactly bro. The old Boogies are great, but that new shit....buzzy as fuck. I feel the same about new Marshalls too.

[Panamark]

I have to enter the debate ! :D

I think Elvis's approach is probably the best way
to remove the hassles of getting a good analog
tube tone without having to frig around with
mic placements (and mic's in general)

Really you are only removing the power amp
and microphones from the equation...
Theres a good argument that the pre-amp
would be delivering a much better, stronger
signal tone than than a microphone in front of a cab..


Also agree with BS1 about modelling too, its cool
to muck around with, but theres still something
missing. Kinda like listening to an old LP record
on a stereo tube amp versus a low bitrate MP3
through a digital system... You can hear the
music, but theres a lot of life sucked out of it..

I love that feeling of a Marshall on the verge of
feedback and the way you can use that in your
playing. Using the Line6 stuff just doesnt give
you that same "alive" feeling..

I too have had every POD since they came out..
Great toy, but I fucking hate it for recording.
Im going to try pluggin in one of those ADA MP(1 or 2)
tube pre-amps into the sucker (like Elvis has done)
and see if that injects some life into the chain..

Seems to me that the two placement mic method
(one in front of CAB, one to take the room) with
SM57's is the best way to go.. But Crikey !!!
what a lot of dicking around.. So many variables too..
The tube-preamp into a digital modeller
approach seems like a great way of getting the job done...

Im curious too as to using the tube pre-amp with
something like the Amplitude 2 software
and a M-Audio digital input.....
(Totally cutting the POD out of the equation)
http://www.audiocourses.com/article1875.html

I know old PlexiHead here does something like
this with good results..

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Panamark
eral)

Really you are only removing the power amp
and microphones from the equation...
Theres a good argument that the pre-amp
would be delivering a much better, stronger
signal tone than than a microphone in front of a cab..



Actually, those two elements are an integral part of the equation, and what all of our ears are "used to" hearing...
and power-amp distortion cannot be beat.

[Panamark]

Originally posted by jhale667
Actually, those two elements are an integral part of the equation, and what all of our ears are "used to" hearing...
and power-amp distortion cannot be beat.

True... Except (maybe its just me) microphones are a
pain in the butt..
Agree about the Poweramp ..
Im just slack, looking for an easy way to get that
same big sound without the hassles.. :)

[ELVIS]

It can be done...


:elvis:

[Nitro Express]

Who would have thought people would still be buying Telecasters, Stratocasters, Jaguars, Jazzmasters, Les Pauls in the 2000's. Most of these guitar designs are a half century old. Want a PAF? Seymour Duncan makes the Seth Lover designed and named after the guy who developed the original in the 1950's for Gibson. Want a V neck 50's style Strat. They make them. Want a tube amplifier? Many good ones to choose from.

Sure there's the digital stuff but compare what you can buy today to the 1980's as far as classic styled gear goes. Fender was hit and miss in those days. It's a much better company now. Will there be tube amps and Fender Stratocasters in 2050? Kids still love em as much as we and our parents did. I can see it being so.

[Nitro Express]

Both my dad and brother were audiofiles who loved high end stereo gear. Both have passed away and I inherited some very nice equiipment from both and yes, the amps are tube mostly of McIntosh make.

My dad had a diverse collection of music on vynle and he was a total Rat Pack freak so I have a ton of Sinatra, Dean, and Sammy Davis on vynle. I'm blown away how full and dynamic old records are and how lifeless and thin digital recorded CD's or MP3's are in comparison.

I have found running digital processed music through a tube based amplifier does add some character and color back into the sound. The reason is tubes are inefficient. The electrons flow from the cathode to the plate through an air space. This creates a natural delay and character. If it works with my stereo it should work with digital processed guitar signals.