Beatles? Nirvana? Overrated!

[Nickdfresh]

Beatles? Nirvana? Overrated!
Nirvana, the Beatles, and every other band you worship is overrated
COMMENTARY
By Dave White
MSNBC contributor
Updated: 3:11 p.m. ET June 19, 2007

Once upon a time, I worked in one of those “High Fidelity”-ish record shops. In fact, I worked in three of them over the course of about 12 years. If you ever bought something from me or my co-workers, you can be assured that we said horrible things about your choices the second you walked out the door. (Except for that one guy named Sean who had impeccable taste in everything and who later became a heroin addict and then stopped buying records, overdosed and disappeared into a Christian rehab. We thought he was awesome.)

But when you work in a place like that for long enough, you realize something very important about popular music. And here it is: everything sucks. Even your favorite band. But especially everyone else’s favorite band. Especially everyone else’s favorite band that people can’t stop contorting themselves into pretzelly shapes over, inventing new ways to kiss their collective, pampered buttocks. Especially-especially bands that end up wildly successful and revered and eventually tenuously re-united for a greatest-hits comeback tour or a museum induction ceremony.

It’s unavoidable. If your music is not instantly dismissible, if it endures, it’s going to be the subject of someone’s over-adoring gaze. Maybe way too many someones. Best-of lists and Halls of Fame and hagiographic films about “the soul of the music.” You’re lucky if you can avoid it. But most popular bands don’t. And that praise-bloat kills.

I’m specifically thinking of The Police, whose main contribution to culture has been the inclusion of their stalker-themed love song “Every Breath You Take” in very confused wedding receptions. Any band whose influence dots can be connected two decades later to Blake Lewis has a lot to answer for.

Who else?

U2
Back in 1980, a friend bought me a copy of “Boy” without either of us having heard the band before. She said, “I know you like stupid new wave crap like this. Here. Happy Birthday.” When I played the record, she said, “They sound like cats mating.” But I liked that. I liked it a lot. And then, about 20 minutes later, came the sunglasses. And the cowboy hats. And arenas and sainthood. Not that I begrudge Bono one second of humanitarian rock-star penance. You have to do some kind of community service to get that record industry b.o. off of you. In fact, I wish he’d quit music and focus on that entirely. But those damn sunglasses still scorch my soul. Also “Vertigo.” And Creed? All this band’s fault.

Metallica
Around the time of the emergence of “speed-metal,” these guys were one of many bands doing exactly the same thing. But they had the breaks and the right publicity team and the right Misfits T-shirts and the grandiose visions of MC Hammer-ish gold-plated bathtub fixtures to keep them reaching for the stars. That their own we’re-in-couples-counseling documentary helped inspire a parody cartoon show (“Metalocalypse,” the best thing on TV) should help keep them off this list. But it doesn’t. Listen to Abruptum instead.

Nirvana
[“Smells Like Teen Spirit”] + [tragedy] x [Courtney Love] ÷ [lawsuits] = Kurt Cobain floating on a cloud in a Doc Martens advertisement. I enjoy fantasizing that if he were still alive he’d be like Joaquin Phoenix at the end of “Walk the Line,” holding a bucket of chicken and enjoying his backyard, oblivious to the fact that he helped pave the way for bands like Puddle of Mudd. It beats thinking he’d end up in and out of rehabs, brushing shoulders with Britney Spears.

The Doors
The most opportunistic of the late ’60s counter-culturalists, they created a toxic and inexplicably popular body of work revered by date-rapist frat boys for decades to come. And it’s the company you keep that ultimately defines you. Unlike just about every other band on this list, I’ve actively disliked them since I can remember, and if I could blame them for the death of Cass Elliott I would. Also? Directly responsible for Third Eye Blind, Matchbox 20 and all other neo-swaggering-front-man pop-chart wankers. Exempt from this discussion: the kookoo-bananas Oliver Stone movie about them. That was amazing.

The Clash
Joe Strummer, may he rest in peace, is not responsible for the way this band has been lionized. In fact, I’d say that out of all of the bands here, it’s not so much their music that irritates as it is the chorus of hosannas that, 30 years later, still follows them around like a car alarm that won’t shut off. I happen to live near a musician in a bar band. They practice in their apartment. I’ve heard “Should I Stay or Should I Go” a lot. Enough times so that I think I should get some royalties out of the deal. So actually I take that back. It is the music.

Bob Dylan
A moral and aesthetic struggle. Does he get a pass like Prince or The Rolling Stones for creating brilliant music in the beginning and then sliding into sameness and reliance on back-catalog sales? And here’s why I think he’s doesn’t: because no one runs around telling you how atom-smashing the new Prince or Rolling Stones records are. But Dylan, every single time he burps onto a compact disc, the fogeys are like, “This is the work of an elder statesman! He’s the ‘Lion In Winter’!” And if it weren’t for him I would have never had to listen to Ani DeFranco.

The Beatles
Their musical output was great. You can’t really dispute that. I mean, you could but you’d be kind of wrong (John Waters and his labeling them as “honkies who ruined rock and roll” notwithstanding). And they did inspire an only-makes-sense-to-space-aliens movie version of “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” that featured Carol Channing dancing to a disco version of the title song. So that’s cool. In fact, if Yoko Ono didn’t exist, you’d have had to invent her to give you something to irrationally dislike them for. But did they appear on a tortilla or a grilled cheese sandwich? Have wars been fought in their name? No, these things haven’t happened. So stop making movies where Sean Penn plays a guy with Down’s Syndrome who only knows about real-life and how to parent Dakota Fanning because of their songs.

Sonic Youth
My personal all-time favorite band. And just about every rock critic thinks they’re incredible. So there’s got to be something wrong with them. I just can’t see it because I’m blinded by love. A guy I know who hates them says they sound like the musical huffing of paint thinner. He’s probably right.

Dave White is the author of “Exile in Guyville.” Don’t bother arguing music with him at www.imdavewhite.com.
© 2007 MSNBC Interactive (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19313280/)

[Sarge's Little Helper]

Beatles? Nirvana? Overrated!
Nirvana, the Beatles, and every other band you worship is overrated
COMMENTARY
By Dave White
MSNBC contributor
Updated: 3:11 p.m. ET June 19, 2007

Once upon a time, I worked in one of those “High Fidelity”-ish record shops. In fact, I worked in three of them over the course of about 12 years. If you ever bought something from me or my co-workers, you can be assured that we said horrible things about your choices the second you walked out the door. (Except for that one guy named Sean who had impeccable taste in everything and who later became a heroin addict and then stopped buying records, overdosed and disappeared into a Christian rehab. We thought he was awesome.)

But when you work in a place like that for long enough, you realize something very important about popular music. And here it is: everything sucks. Even your favorite band. But especially everyone else’s favorite band. Especially everyone else’s favorite band that people can’t stop contorting themselves into pretzelly shapes over, inventing new ways to kiss their collective, pampered buttocks. Especially-especially bands that end up wildly successful and revered and eventually tenuously re-united for a greatest-hits comeback tour or a museum induction ceremony.

It’s unavoidable. If your music is not instantly dismissible, if it endures, it’s going to be the subject of someone’s over-adoring gaze. Maybe way too many someones. Best-of lists and Halls of Fame and hagiographic films about “the soul of the music.” You’re lucky if you can avoid it. But most popular bands don’t. And that praise-bloat kills.

I’m specifically thinking of The Police, whose main contribution to culture has been the inclusion of their stalker-themed love song “Every Breath You Take” in very confused wedding receptions. Any band whose influence dots can be connected two decades later to Blake Lewis has a lot to answer for.

Who else?

U2
Back in 1980, a friend bought me a copy of “Boy” without either of us having heard the band before. She said, “I know you like stupid new wave crap like this. Here. Happy Birthday.” When I played the record, she said, “They sound like cats mating.” But I liked that. I liked it a lot. And then, about 20 minutes later, came the sunglasses. And the cowboy hats. And arenas and sainthood. Not that I begrudge Bono one second of humanitarian rock-star penance. You have to do some kind of community service to get that record industry b.o. off of you. In fact, I wish he’d quit music and focus on that entirely. But those damn sunglasses still scorch my soul. Also “Vertigo.” And Creed? All this band’s fault.

Metallica
Around the time of the emergence of “speed-metal,” these guys were one of many bands doing exactly the same thing. But they had the breaks and the right publicity team and the right Misfits T-shirts and the grandiose visions of MC Hammer-ish gold-plated bathtub fixtures to keep them reaching for the stars. That their own we’re-in-couples-counseling documentary helped inspire a parody cartoon show (“Metalocalypse,” the best thing on TV) should help keep them off this list. But it doesn’t. Listen to Abruptum instead.

Nirvana
[“Smells Like Teen Spirit”] + [tragedy] x [Courtney Love] ÷ [lawsuits] = Kurt Cobain floating on a cloud in a Doc Martens advertisement. I enjoy fantasizing that if he were still alive he’d be like Joaquin Phoenix at the end of “Walk the Line,” holding a bucket of chicken and enjoying his backyard, oblivious to the fact that he helped pave the way for bands like Puddle of Mudd. It beats thinking he’d end up in and out of rehabs, brushing shoulders with Britney Spears.

The Doors
The most opportunistic of the late ’60s counter-culturalists, they created a toxic and inexplicably popular body of work revered by date-rapist frat boys for decades to come. And it’s the company you keep that ultimately defines you. Unlike just about every other band on this list, I’ve actively disliked them since I can remember, and if I could blame them for the death of Cass Elliott I would. Also? Directly responsible for Third Eye Blind, Matchbox 20 and all other neo-swaggering-front-man pop-chart wankers. Exempt from this discussion: the kookoo-bananas Oliver Stone movie about them. That was amazing.

The Clash
Joe Strummer, may he rest in peace, is not responsible for the way this band has been lionized. In fact, I’d say that out of all of the bands here, it’s not so much their music that irritates as it is the chorus of hosannas that, 30 years later, still follows them around like a car alarm that won’t shut off. I happen to live near a musician in a bar band. They practice in their apartment. I’ve heard “Should I Stay or Should I Go” a lot. Enough times so that I think I should get some royalties out of the deal. So actually I take that back. It is the music.

Bob Dylan
A moral and aesthetic struggle. Does he get a pass like Prince or The Rolling Stones for creating brilliant music in the beginning and then sliding into sameness and reliance on back-catalog sales? And here’s why I think he’s doesn’t: because no one runs around telling you how atom-smashing the new Prince or Rolling Stones records are. But Dylan, every single time he burps onto a compact disc, the fogeys are like, “This is the work of an elder statesman! He’s the ‘Lion In Winter’!” And if it weren’t for him I would have never had to listen to Ani DeFranco.

The Beatles
Their musical output was great. You can’t really dispute that. I mean, you could but you’d be kind of wrong (John Waters and his labeling them as “honkies who ruined rock and roll” notwithstanding). And they did inspire an only-makes-sense-to-space-aliens movie version of “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” that featured Carol Channing dancing to a disco version of the title song. So that’s cool. In fact, if Yoko Ono didn’t exist, you’d have had to invent her to give you something to irrationally dislike them for. But did they appear on a tortilla or a grilled cheese sandwich? Have wars been fought in their name? No, these things haven’t happened. So stop making movies where Sean Penn plays a guy with Down’s Syndrome who only knows about real-life and how to parent Dakota Fanning because of their songs.

Sonic Youth
My personal all-time favorite band. And just about every rock critic thinks they’re incredible. So there’s got to be something wrong with them. I just can’t see it because I’m blinded by love. A guy I know who hates them says they sound like the musical huffing of paint thinner. He’s probably right.

Dave White is the author of “Exile in Guyville.” Don’t bother arguing music with him at www.imdavewhite.com.
© 2007 MSNBC Interactive (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19313280/)

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Tell me again what is going on.

[FORD]

Where does this Dave White guy live? I haven't wanted to kick someone's ass so badly since the 2004 election.

[Redballjets88]

he makes a good point...i dislike ac/dc for similar reasons

[matt19]

Originally posted by FORD
Where does this Dave White guy live? I haven't wanted to kick someone's ass so badly since the 2004 election.

LMMFAO! :D

[DrMaddVibe]

Like I've ever cared what record shop people have ever thought of my selections.

I bought them for me...not them and their friends.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. I just don't care for this guy's take on music, but meh...I never liked Rolling Stones rating system either!

[hideyoursheep]

This guy's an :asshole: to the 10th power.

I think he spent more time looking at album covers than he did actually listening to them.

Kick him once for me,FORD.

"Sonic Youth
My personal all-time favorite band. And just about every rock critic thinks they’re incredible. So there’s got to be something wrong with them. I just can’t see it because I’m blinded by love. A guy I know who hates them says they sound like the musical huffing of paint thinner. He’s probably right."


Enough said.


:mad:

[JJMcClure]

The word "overrated" is overrated IMO

[Shaun Ponsonby]

I hate twats like this.

OK, I slag off Hagar and Bon Jovi (who doesn't), and I dislike Kurt Cobain and John Lennon, but, really, whose to say what's good and whats bad? Its a matter of personal taste.

Go to his website and verbally kick his ass, Ford.

Let's give him a visit from the ROTH ARMY.

[Mr. Vengeance]

Stupid article, but I agree with U2 and Nirvana. Both are wayyyyyy too glorified. I hate U2. Nirvana I like but I don't think they did as much to "save" music as people try to claim. Look at the state of music today...what exactly did they save us from?

The rest of the list licks balls.

[sadaist]

Music is subjective. Hell, we all love CVH, but can't even agree on which album or song is the best or worst. Everyone's ears are different. Who gives a fuck?

Music is intended for the listener, not the people watching the listener.

[Mr Badguy]

He`s right.

U2, The Clash, Metallica and Nirvana aren`t just over-rated, in my opinion they all suck.

U2 and The Clash never did shit that was any good and the other two were good for like five minutes.

[binnie]

I worked in a record shop for seven years.

The article is true in some respects: we did criticize people's tastes in music, and that was mostly becuase the vast majority of people buy shit.

When you've sold your fifty copies of Shania Twain in a day, and had fifty people tell you how AMAZINGLY talented she is, you start to get pissed off. Same for Coldplay, Eminem and all the other bullshit music that the hordes buy.

Did it piss us off because we thought that it was shit? Not really. It pissed us off because these people flocked to buy the artists they were told to buy by advertisers: the distinct lack of thought or choice about what they ACTUALLY LIKED was astounding to me. "Just give me what everyone else likes, please".

And you know, ten years from now when so TV show "Remembering 200o-05" comes on mocking all the pop music of the period, they'll be their laughing at it, just like the fuckers who bought WHAM records luagh at them now. Well you bought it, so whose the laugh on?

As for the bands that guy mentions, at least they all play instruments, write their own songs, and try to put some depth into their songs. He should have worked where I worked, and sold the latest "product" off the line.

[Mr Badguy]

Originally posted by binnie
I worked in a record shop for seven years.

The article is true in some respects: we did criticize people's tastes in music, and that was mostly becuase the vast majority of people buy shit.

When you've sold your fifty copies of Shania Twain in a day, and had fifty people tell you how AMAZINGLY talented she is, you start to get pissed off. Same for Coldplay, Eminem and all the other bullshit music that the hordes buy.

Did it piss us off because we thought that it was shit? Not really. It pissed us off because these people flocked to buy the artists they were told to buy by advertisers: the distinct lack of thought or choice about what they ACTUALLY LIKED was astounding to me. "Just give me what everyone else likes, please".

And you know, ten years from now when so TV show "Remembering 200o-05" comes on mocking all the pop music of the period, they'll be their laughing at it, just like the fuckers who bought WHAM records luagh at them now. Well you bought it, so whose the laugh on?

As for the bands that guy mentions, at least they all play instruments, write their own songs, and try to put some depth into their songs. He should have worked where I worked, and sold the latest "product" off the line.

Yes.

Then again people like that won`t be posting in forums like this because music is just a commodity to them, it commands no involvement, it`s just something to put on in the background while they dance.

The reason they laugh about the stuff they used to like is because they had no involvement with it.

In general people are stupid.

They WILL buy stuff because it gets advertised, that`s why advertising is such a big business.

That`s pretty much why rock music, well any kind of music apart from the payola fuelled chart fodder, will never catch on big in the UK.

[binnie]

Originally posted by Mr Badguy
Yes.

Then again people like that won`t be posting in forums like this because music is just a commodity to them, it commands no involvement, it`s just something to put on in the background while they dance.

The reason they laugh about the stuff they used to like is because they had no involvement with it.

In general people are stupid.

They WILL buy stuff because it gets advertised, that`s why advertising is such a big business.

That`s pretty much why rock music, well any kind of music apart from the payola fuelled chart fodder, will never catch on big in the UK.

You're bang on the money there.

I remember looking back on old sales figures on what kind of sales people used to REALLY sell pre-mid 90s, and there was a lot of decent stuff, thinkers music if you will, that did good business. But from the mid-late 90s on, it was an increased trend of "artists" selling shit loads of records over a very short space of time: Shania Twain, Ricky Martin, Keane, Coldplay, Robbie Williams, James Blunt, James Morrisson, genric Pop Idol/ X Factor winner, and a fuckload of other blips I can't even remember.

Sad but true.

It is also the reason that the record industry is digging it's own grave. The steady sellers build up a fan base, and will make a record company money twenty years down the line. The "product" artists won't.

No one's going to be queing up for a James Blunt comeback tour in twenty years, you can guarantee that!

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

Originally posted by Mr Badguy
He`s right.

U2, The Clash, Metallica and Nirvana aren`t just over-rated, in my opinion they all suck.


I didn't want to be the first one to mention Metallica, but thanks :)

[sadaist]

Who cares? If someone buys a cd, plays it in the car on the way to work, sings along and grooves to it, it doesn't matter if they are following a trend or what advertisers told them to buy. It really doesn't matter if I like it or not.

This reminds of the punkers who thought that a band sucked if they got any radio airplay or more than ten people knew who they were.

Listen to what you like and leave everyone else to do the same.

[Redballjets88]

i think the sex pistols belong on this more so than the clash...at least the clash is coherent in their play and lyrics.

[Mr Badguy]

Originally posted by sadaist
Who cares? If someone buys a cd, plays it in the car on the way to work, sings along and grooves to it, it doesn't matter if they are following a trend or what advertisers told them to buy. It really doesn't matter if I like it or not.

This reminds of the punkers who thought that a band sucked if they got any radio airplay or more than ten people knew who they were.

Listen to what you like and leave everyone else to do the same.

I wasn`t pissing on anyone.

I was just making a point that some people think of music like toilet paper, something that you use then throwaway.

[sadaist]

Originally posted by Mr Badguy
I wasn`t pissing on anyone.

I was just making a point that some people think of music like toilet paper, something that you use then throwaway.

Sorry. Wasn't trying to be doggin' anyone. But an example is when I was a teenager, my little sister loved Tiffany & Debbie Gibson. My room had Judas Priest cranking out & hers had the pop music. I hated it, but it made her happy. Even though her bands are long gone, she still grooves to those old recordings.

Listen to what makes you happy, regardless if the band is considered overrated, underrated, sell-outs, weak, etc....

Hell, I still listen to Men At Work on occasion. Got tickets to see Colin Hay Aug 16. If everyone on this site hammered me about how bad he sucks, I'm not gonna go & sell my tickets.

[Terry]

Originally posted by sadaist
Music is subjective. Hell, we all love CVH, but can't even agree on which album or song is the best or worst. Everyone's ears are different. Who gives a fuck?

Music is intended for the listener, not the people watching the listener.

Agreed 100%.

All the bands mentioned are a list of groups that it's almost heretical to say anything bad about, and although I'm not gonna say they suck (have listened to all of them and had various albums in my collection at one time or another), I just don't have any use for any of them in terms of what I'm listening to these days. And universal critical acclaim for any particular band isn't gonna move me to go out and get their stuff if listening to it doesn't motivate me to do it.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by Mr Badguy

They WILL buy stuff because it gets advertised, that`s why advertising is such a big business.




I'm convinced that the only reason James Blunt sold so much was that they advertised it every day during breakfast TV. And you know how it is when you're only half awake and a song gets played...its stuck in your head all day. So, people thought they liked it. But...did they really? Or was it just stuck in their heads?

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Exactly, exactly...

[Panamark]

Note to self, never say you like the band when buying
a CD from a record shop..

This is kinda irrelevant crap anyway,
in 5-10 there wont be record shops....

Dudes like this will have to whine about everyone
thinking they are electronic geniuses
because he will be that same salesman,
but in an appliance store..

[binnie]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
I'm convinced that the only reason James Blunt sold so much was that they advertised it every day during breakfast TV. And you know how it is when you're only half awake and a song gets played...its stuck in your head all day. So, people thought they liked it. But...did they really? Or was it just stuck in their heads?

That's definately partly true,

The other reason was that he got more radio play than any song should poissibly get.

[Redballjets88]

that song was resently ranked the most annoying song ever, above even mmmbop and the macarana

[binnie]

I think you guys got off lightly with it in the US, in the UK Blunt was EVERYWHERE for about 2 months.

But that song is definately annoying, and also has awful lyrics, really, really just awful

[Shaun Ponsonby]

"I saw your face
In a crowded place"

Worthy of Hagar.

And whats with the fucking video? Who sits on a ship taking things out of their pocket in the rain?

[binnie]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby


And whats with the fucking video? Who sits on a ship taking things out of their pocket in the rain?

James Blunt.

That's what you do when you can't get a girl and you're a pussy.....apparently....

[Wawazat]

What's so difficult about avoiding tv & radio ?

The mere thought of "breakfast TV" makes me sick.

[binnie]

Happy Birthday for this week 'Zat!

[Ellyllions]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
[b]Beatles? Nirvana? Overrated!
Nirvana, the Beatles, and every other band you worship is overrated


Great article. Enjoyed the satire and penmanship. And I agree with some but disagree with others...

U2
Disagree. Because I know why they did what they did with POP. Plus, Creed was NOTHING like U2 except maybe Scott Stapp's painful attempt at putting religion into his lyrics. Bono is NOT as fucked up as Stapp when it comes to religion, and as far as a comparison on lyricism...Bono makes Stapp look like a complete idiot.

Metallica
Disagree for the early years. Only when they started stumping against Napster did they sell-out.

Nirvana
Completely agree. Nirvana is and was WAY overrated. But something had to happen, the record companies had raped and pillaged rock music to the point of complete ridiculousness.


The Doors
Completely disagree. The Doors were and are amazing.

The Clash
Complete disagree. Love'em or hate 'em they had the balls to do what they wanted whether the public liked it or not.

Bob Dylan
Dylan's music is junk. I've always hated it. I wouldn't care if he "sang" (word used loosely when relating it to Dylan) about something else....his music is horrible.

The Beatles
I've always thought this band was overrated and still do...

[binnie]

The Beatles are definately overrated: no-one deserves that kind of messianic level of worship, no-one could live up to that irregardless of how good or great they were....

[Shaun Ponsonby]

The fact remains...if someone becomes massive, somebody is gonna think they're overrated, most of the time simply and purely because they don't like them.

[binnie]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
The fact remains...if someone becomes massive, somebody is gonna think they're overrated, most of the time simply and purely because they don't like them.

True 'dat.

The fact also remains that great bands have to be hated as well as loved: music is about gettinga reaction out of people, like all art, and the more you get reactions, the more variations of reactions you're going to get.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Exactly exactly