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Hardrock69
07-20-2007, 12:05 PM
It was 38 years ago today at 9:56 PM CST.

http://www.medaloffreedom.com/NeilArmstrongMoon.jpg

Being only 9 at the time, my bedtime was 9. So my mom came and got me out of bed, and I got to see this historic moment as it happened!


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Nitro Express
07-20-2007, 10:02 PM
An amazing feat when you think how long ago they did it and now in 2007, no nation in the world can go to the moon because there are no rocket boosters big enough to do it in existance.

My father in law worked at the Marshall Space Center during the Apollo years.

Nitro Express
07-20-2007, 10:06 PM
I can remember having all sorts of Apollo mission toys as a kid. I had a space helmut, a tent that looked like the control module, a cool lunar lander that moved around and made all sorts of noise, a NASA sleeping bag.

My dad was a big reader of Popular Science and Polular Mechanics. It just seemed we had hit the fast lane technology wise and I was damn sure we would be flying around instead of driving around by 2007! It's almost a letdown!

Hardrock69
07-21-2007, 12:36 AM
There is a new documentary coming out soon about the astronauts who walked on the moon. They had something on CNN about it today. One guy put it this way:

There are now 7 billion people on this planet. Only 9 of them have ever walked on another 'heavenly body'.

Unchainme
07-21-2007, 01:20 AM
I got to talk with TK Mattingly (the guy who got bumped on 13, because they thought he had the measles). a few years back...Great Guy...Told me a lot of detail about being on one of the missions, Was a Command Module pilot, meaning he never walked the moon, But He did confirm that the Moon Hoax thing was bullshit, even laughed it off as a Joke.

113
07-21-2007, 07:55 AM
The appollo missions were a propaganda film, man can`t go into deep space because of the radiation. They have problems orbiting the earth, so there`s no way they travelled 250 000 miles to the moon in 1969 (government mind control/propaganda)

Nitro Express
07-21-2007, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by 113
The appollo missions were a propaganda film, man can`t go into deep space because of the radiation. They have problems orbiting the earth, so there`s no way they travelled 250 000 miles to the moon in 1969 (government mind control/propaganda)

If that was true the Russians would have been first to jump on the moon hoax bandwagon but they didn't. They desperately tried to get their own huge rocket to work but everyone launched blew up.

Viking
07-21-2007, 10:54 PM
Sorry. Read on. My bad. :D

Viking
07-21-2007, 10:54 PM
Triple post. :D

Viking
07-21-2007, 10:54 PM
The fact that we haven't been back in 35 years is one of the single biggest travesties of the modern human era. Hell, back then, the entire computing capability of every single system on an Apollo mission - launch vehicle, command module, and lander - was less than your garden-variety PDA, circa 2004. Our knowledge in the field of exo-planetary science has increased ten-thousand fold by now. What the fuck are we still doing, spending money hand-over-fist, and putting people up in an orbit so low you could hit them with a good slingshot??!? Fuckin' Richard Branson is starting to do that. Privately. No gummint subsidies. And with a little space glider his team designed all by their lonesome. Thank God for the X Prize competition. Maybe it'll prompt some fat, happy types to get off their asses and do what humans do best: explore. Then kill the native savages, rape their women, and conquer their lands. LMFAO :killer:

Viking
07-21-2007, 10:58 PM
THIS, BOYS AND GIRLS, IS A LESSON ON HOW TO COMMIT MULTIPLE EDITS WHILE YOUR BANDWIDTH-DEFICIENT, TITS-ON-A-BULL-USELESS ISP SHOTGUNS ALL YOUR POSTS AT ONCE. :D :D :D


And I did it with a buzz on, too. :killer:

Unchainme
07-21-2007, 11:16 PM
Speak of the Devil Viking..

Orion is a spacecraft design currently under development by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). Each Orion spacecraft will carry a crew of four to six astronauts, and will be launched by the new Ares I launch vehicle. Both Orion and Ares I are elements of NASA's Project Constellation, which plans to send human explorers back to the Moon by 2020, and then onward to Mars and other destinations in the solar system.[1][2] On August 31, 2006, NASA awarded Lockheed Martin (LM) the contract to design, develop, and build Orion.[3]

Orion will launch from the same launch complex at Kennedy Space Center that currently launches the Space Shuttle. NASA will use Orion spacecraft for its human spaceflight missions after the last Shuttle orbiter is retired in 2010. Orion will initially handle logistic flights to the International Space Station starting at the end of 2014 or beginning of 2015, and after that it will become a key component of missions to the Moon and Mars.

Origin

On January 14, 2004, President George W. Bush announced the Orion spacecraft, known then as the Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV), as part of the Vision for Space Exploration:

"Our second goal is to develop and test a new spacecraft, the Crew Exploration Vehicle, by 2008, and to conduct the first manned mission no later than 2014. The Crew Exploration Vehicle will be capable of ferrying astronauts and scientists to the Space Station after the shuttle is retired. But the main purpose of this spacecraft will be to carry astronauts beyond our orbit to other worlds. This will be the first spacecraft of its kind since the Apollo Command Module."[4]

The proposal to create the Orion spacecraft was partly a reaction to the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster, the subsequent findings and report by the Columbia Accident Investigation Board (CAIB), and the White House's review of the American space program. The Orion spacecraft effectively replaced the conceptual Orbital Space Plane (OSP), which itself was proposed after the failure of the Lockheed Martin X-33 program to produce a replacement for the Space Shuttle.

The Orion Crew and Service Module (CSM) stack consists of two main parts: a conical Crew Module (CM), and a cylindrical Service Module (SM) which will hold the spacecraft's propulsion system and expendable onboard supplies. Both are based heavily on the Apollo Command and Service Modules (Apollo CSM) flown between 1967 and 1975, but include advances derived from the Space Shuttle program. "Going with known technology and known solutions lowers the risk," according to Neil Woodward, director of the integration office in the Exploration Systems Mission Directorate.[5]

Crew Module

The shape of the Orion Crew Module (CM) is a 70° cone, similar to that of the Apollo Command Module. The Orion CM will hold four to six crew members, compared to a maximum of three in the smaller Apollo CM. Despite its superficial resemblance to the 1960's-era Apollo, Orion's CM will boast significantly improved technology, including, but not limited to:

* "Glass cockpit" digital control systems derived from that of the Boeing 787, along with an "autodock" feature, with provision for the flight crew taking manual control of the vehicle in an emergency.[6]

* Improved waste-management facilities consisting of a minature camping-style toilet and unisex "relief tube" used on the Space Shuttle (whose system was based on that used on Skylab) and the International Space Station (based on the Soyuz, Salyut, and Mir systems). This would eliminate the use of the much-hated plastic "Apollo bags" used by the Apollo crews.

* A nitrogen/oxygen (N2/O2) mixed atmosphere at either sea level (101.3 kPa; 14.7 psi) or slightly reduced (55.2 to 70.3 kPa; 8.0 to 10.2 psi) pressure.

An important feature that will be introduced in the Orion CM is a new system employing a combination of parachutes and either retrorockets or airbags for capsule recovery. This will allow retrieval of the Orion CM on land, like the Russian Soyuz and Chinese Shenzhou descent module, and eliminate the expensive naval recovery fleet employed on all Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo flights. The CM will also have the capability of water recovery, but it would be limited to in-flight aborts in which the launch escape system must be employed to pull the CM away from a malfunctioning Ares I rocket, or in the case of a Gemini 8-type emergency if the reentry thrusters are activated. In the case of a launch abort, NASA will use either the M/V Freedom Star or M/V Liberty Star in conjunction with United States Coast Guard personnel who will then retrieve the capsule, while an emergency splashdown after launch would require the observance of the Outer Space Treaty signed in 1967.

Another feature will be the partial reusability of the Orion CM, which would be capable of being reused for up to ten flights, allowing NASA to build a fleet of both manned and unmanned Orion CMs. Both the CM and SM will be constructed of an aluminum/lithium (Al/Li) alloy (currently used on the Shuttle's External Tank) that is as strong as the aircraft aluminum used on the Shuttle Orbiter's skin, but will make the spacecraft lighter than both its Apollo and Shuttle predecessors. The CM itself will be covered in the same nomex felt-like thermal protection blankets used on non-critical parts on the Shuttle (such as the payload bay doors) while the Thermal Protection System (TPS) will be made of a derivative of the Phenolic Impregnated Carbon Ablator (PICA) heat shield previously developed for the Stardust return mission[7]. The heat shield, attached to the spacecraft with an eight-point attachment system, will either drop off (similar to that employed on the Soyuz) to expose the retrorockets or airbags, or will have "blow-off" covers that will allow the operation of the retrorockets or airbags, but will allow the shield to serve as a sort-of "crumple zone" for the projected 30 km/h (18 mph) speed that the Orion will encounter at touchdown. The recovery parachutes, also reusable, will be based on the parachutes used on both the Apollo spacecraft and the Space Shuttle Solid Rocket Boosters, and will also use the same nomex cloth for construction.

To allow the Orion spacecraft to service the International Space Station, and to mate with other Constellation vehicles it will use the Low Impact Docking System, a different and simplified version of the Russian-developed universal docking ring currently in use on the Shuttle fleet and based on the earlier system used on the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project in 1975. Both the spacecraft and docking adapter will employ a Launch Escape System (LES) like that used in Mercury and Apollo, along with an Apollo-derived fiberglass "Boost Protective Cover," to protect the Orion CM during ascent. Unlike Gemini, Apollo, and Shuttle, in which a pilot was required to control the spacecraft for docking, Orion will have an "autodock" capability, in which the computer will control the docking without the need for a pilot (especially critical when Orion flights to the Moon will require the Orion CSM to remain unmanned in orbit), although as a backup measure, the pilot can take over from the computer and perform a manual dock if needed.

The Orion CM is projected to be around 5 meters (16.5 feet) in diameter, with a mass of about 25 tonnes. It is to be built by the Lockheed Martin Corporation.[8] It will have more than 2.5 times the volume of an Apollo capsule (that had an interior volume of 210 cubic feet (5.9 m³)) and can carry between four to six astronauts.[9]

[edit] Service Module

Like its Apollo predecessor, the Orion Service Module (SM) has a cylindrical shape, but the new Orion SM will be larger, shorter, and lighter. It too will be constructed from the same Al-Li alloy as the Orion CM, and will feature a pair of deployable circular or rectangular solar panels (a final decision on their design has not yet been made), eliminating the need to carry fuel cells and the associated hardware—mainly tanks containing liquid hydrogen [LH2]—needed for their operation. The spacecraft's main propulsion system is a Delta II upper stage engine using hypergolic propellants (nitrogen tetroxide and monomethyl hydrazine) drawn from spherical, helium-pressurized titanium tanks. The SM Reaction Control System (RCS — the spacecraft's maneuvering thrusters) will also be pressure-fed, and will use the same propellants. NASA believes the SM RCS would be able to act as a backup for a trans-Earth injection (TEI) burn in case the main SM engine fails. The SM's twin spherical "slush" LOX tanks and a single tank of liquid nitrogen (LN2) will provide the crew with breathing air during the majority of the mission, while a "surge tank" located in the Orion CM itself will provide the crew with 2 to 4 hours (depending upon the number of crew members) of the same breathing air after SM jettison. Lithium hydroxide (LiOH) cartridges will recycle the spacecraft's environmental system by "scrubbing" the carbon dioxide (CO2) exhaled by the astronauts from ship's air and adding fresh oxygen and nitrogen, which is then cycled back out into the system loop. Because of the elimination of the fuel cells and LH2 tanks, a large tank of potable water will be carried in both the CM and SM that will both provide drinking water for the astronauts and (mixed with glycol) cooling water for the electronics. A system identical to that used in the ISS will allow the astronauts to recycle both waste water and urine into glycol-mixed cooling water for the electronics.

The SM also mounts the spacecraft's waste heat management system (its radiators) and the aforementioned solar panels. These panels, along with backup batteries located in the Orion CM, will provide a total of 28 V (dc) in-flight power to the ship's systems. This is similar to the voltage used on the Apollo spacecraft during flight.

[edit] Launch Abort System

See also: Orion abort modes

In the event of an emergency on the launch pad or during ascent, a launch escape system called the Launch Abort System (LAS) will separate the Crew Module from the launch vehicle using a rocket-powered launch abort motor. On July 10, 2007, Orbital Sciences -- the contractor for the LAS -- awarded Alliant Techsystems (ATK) a $62.5 million sub-contract to, "design, develop, produce, test and deliver the launch abort motor." ATK intends to use an innovative "reverse flow" design for the motor.[10]

[edit] Design revisions and updates

July 2006 design revisions

In late July of 2006 NASA's second design review resulted in major changes to the spacecraft design.[11] Originally, NASA wanted to use liquid methane (LCH4) as the SM fuel, as it could be "mined" (in situ) on the Moon, Mars, and other methane-rich bodies, but due to the infancy of oxygen/methane-powered rocket technologies and the need to launch the Orion by 2012, the switch to hypergolic propellants was mandated in late July 2006. This switch will allow NASA to man-rate the Orion and Ares I stack by no later than 2011[citation needed], and eliminate a possible delay between the Shuttle's retirement in 2010 and the first manned Orion flight scheduled for 2012.[12]

April 2007 contract revision

On 20 April 2007 NASA and LM signed a modification to the Orion contract. The updated contract adds two years to the Orion project design phase, adds two test flights of Orion's launch abort system, and deletes from the initial design phase production of a pressurized cargo carrier for the International Space Station.[13]

May 2007 design update

An article in "Aerospace Daily & Defense Report" indicates that in the latest Orion design revision, called configuration "606" by LM, the service module will have exterior panels that are jettisoned shortly after the second stage engine of the Ares I ignites. This configuration will save 1,000 pounds of mass compared with the prior "605" configuration.[14]

[edit] Criticism

See also: Exploration Systems Architecture Study#Criticism

[edit] Acquisition strategy

The Space Frontier Foundation has asserted that the $3.9 billion initial phase of the Orion contract essentially duplicates the functionality of NASA's $500 million Commercial Orbital Transportation Services program.[15][16] Additionally, NASA's contract with Lockheed Martin is a cost-plus contract, a contracting method which has been criticized for being prone to cost overruns and delays, while contractors in the COTS only receive payment for successes.[15]

[edit] Exploration Systems Architecture Study

Main article: Exploration Systems Architecture Study

A number of changes to the original CEV acquisition strategy were explained in a NASA study called the Exploration Systems Architecture Study. The results were presented at a news conference held on September 19, 2005.[17]

[edit] Competition and Proposals

Main article: Crew Exploration Vehicle

[edit] Testing

NASA will perform environmental testing of Orion from 2007 to 2011 at the Glenn Research Center Plum Brook Station in Sandusky, Ohio. The Center's Space Power Facility is the world's largest thermal vacuum chamber.[18]

[edit] Schedule

NASA hopes to follow this schedule in development of the Orion:

* 2006–2007 — Engineering review of selected design
* 2009 (April) — First suborbital flight of an Orion-mock-up
* 2009 (May) — AA-1 unmanned ascent abort system test (transonic)
* 2010 (August) — AA-2 unmanned ascent abort system test (Max Q)
* 2011 (February) — AA-3 unmanned ascent abort system test (low-altitude)
* 2011 (September) — AA-4 unmanned ascent abort system test (high altitude)
* 2012 — First unmanned flight of Orion in Earth orbit.[19]
* 2014 (September) — First manned flight of Orion in Earth orbit.
* 2015–2018 — First unmanned flight of Lunar Surface Access Module (LSAM).
* 2016–2018 — First manned flight of LSAM.
* 2019 — First manned lunar landing with Orion/LSAM system.
* 2020 — Start of planning for Mars missions

NASA initially established that it would initiate a phased retirement of the Space Shuttle, which would have begun with the retirement of one orbiter, Atlantis, in 2008. This decision was later changed, all three remaining shuttles will keep flying until 2010. In the meantime, NASA engineers would work to upgrade the current launch facilities to work with the next generation shuttle-derived launch vehicles.[20] Such a plan would allow lunar mission development to begin much earlier than currently planned, as additional funding will be available earlier.

[edit] Possibilities for future CEV development

After the replacement of Sean O'Keefe, NASA's procurement schedule and strategy has completely changed, as described above. In July 2004, before he was named NASA administrator, Michael Griffin participated in a study called "Extending Human Presence Into the Solar System"[21] for The Planetary Society, as a co-team leader. The study offers a strategy for carrying out Project Constellation in an affordable and achievable manner. Since Griffin was one of the leaders of the study, it can be assumed that he agrees with its conclusions, and it is therefore instructive to review the study to gain insight into possible future developments regarding the CEV. Indeed, as described below, the actions he has taken thus far as administrator support the goals of the plan.

According to the executive summary, the study is built around "a staged approach to human exploration beyond low Earth orbit (LEO)."[21] It recommends that Project Constellation be carried out in three distinct phases, called "Stages." These are:

* Stage 1 - "Features the development of a new crew exploration vehicle (CEV), the completion of the International Space Station (ISS), and an early retirement of the Shuttle Orbiter. Orbiter retirement would be made as soon as the ISS U.S. Core is completed (perhaps only 6 or 7 flights) and the smallest number of additional flights necessary to satisfy our international partners’ ISS requirements. Money saved by early Orbiter retirement would be used to accelerate the CEV development schedule to minimize or eliminate any hiatus in U.S. capability to reach and return from LEO."[21]

* Stage 2 - "Requires the development of additional assets, including an uprated CEV capable of extended missions of many months in interplanetary space. Habitation, laboratory, consumables, and propulsion modules, to enable human flight to the vicinities of the Moon and Mars, the Lagrange points, and certain near-Earth asteroids."[21]

* Stage 3 - "Development of human-rated planetary landers is completed in Stage 3, allowing human missions to the surface of the Moon and Mars beginning around 2020."[21]

[edit] Stage I

Rather than designing a CEV solely for the earliest lunar landing possible, the report recommends developing the CEV in two Blocks. The Block I CEV would be suitable for LEO missions only and would be developed as quickly as possible to avoid the gap between the currently scheduled Shuttle retirement in 2010 and CEV flights starting in 2014. It would carry a crew of 4–6 astronauts. The report recommends the development of a shuttle-derived CEV launch vehicle based on the "Shuttle Solid Rocket Motor with a new liquid propellant upper stage"[21] for CEV launch, rather than man-rating an EELV. This approach would allow the advantages of using a proven, man-rated design (the Solid Rocket Motor), plus the ability to continue using Shuttle infrastructure to support CEV operations.

Indeed, as described above, the upcoming Exploration Systems Architecture Study is thought to contain an endorsement of exactly this option — the construction of an SRM-based SDLV, plus a heavy-lift launch vehicle derived from the Shuttle, in addition to options for expediting CEV development to permit earlier manned flight.[22] Therefore, the idea that the Planetary Society report could shed light on future CEV development is supported by these new developments. In other words, the very recommendations contained in the report for the beginning of Stage I — namely, the expedited CEV development and the SRM-derived launch vehicle — appear to have materialized.

Under the rest of Stage I, the Shuttle would be retired as soon as possible after completing the "U.S. Core Complete" configuration of the International Space Station, an option that also appears to have gained support within NASA and the Bush administration.[23] The report makes no specific mention of a manned Hubble Space Telescope servicing mission, although Administrator Griffin has instructed Hubble managers at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center to make preparations for such a mission,[24] and the report refers to Hubble as "world-class astronomy".[21] The report suggests the use of expendable launchers, either foreign vehicles such as the Ariane and Proton, or a new Shuttle-derived, heavy-lift launch vehicle to complete the ISS after Shuttle retirement. The Block I CEV could also act as an ISS Crew Return Vehicle, allowing crews of more than three to be supported. Stage I is to be implemented by 2010.

[edit] Stage II

Under Stage II, a new Block II CEV would be developed, suitable for interplanetary flight. The report states that the new CEV should keep the same mold lines as the Block I, making the selection of an appropriate Block I CEV extremely important to the successful implementation of the plan. The report states that the Block II CEV would need to have capability to conduct interplanetary cruises of at least several months in duration. It suggests the development of other modules, specifically modules called "Hab," "Lab," "Propulsion," and "Consumables" to support longer-duration flights, possibly to be carried onboard Ares V to LEO for Orion to pick-up. The use of ISS module derivatives for the Hab and Lab modules is suggested but not explicitly endorsed.

Four destinations are suggested for CEV exploration in Stage II. They are (probably, although not necessarily) in the order that they would be visited:

* The Moon
* Sun-Earth Lagrange point 2 (SEL2)
* A Near-Earth Object (NEO)
* Mars orbit / Martian moons

The goal would be to conduct flights to each of these destinations but without a human-rated lander for the Moon and Mars. The use of SEL2 is described as important to demonstrate the capability of servicing future space telescopes (such as the James Webb Space Telescope) there and also for staging interplanetary flights. After the flights to SEL2, a flight to a NEO could be attempted; due to its extremely low surface gravity a landing module would not be needed and the astronauts could "walk" on it with MMU-like equipment. Finally, a mission to orbit Mars and possibly land on its moons is suggested. All these flights would be accomplished with one CEV design supported by the various modules, as necessary. Stage II would take place from about 2015 onward. However, according to the current descriptions of the ESAS, a landing on the Moon appears to be the first priority of Project Constellation and will occur by 2018.[25]

[edit] Stage III

In Stage III, human-rated landers are developed to allow landings on both the Moon and Mars. Since the Block II CEV should be capable of flights to both these destinations, lunar and Mars landings could begin simultaneously, with the experience gained from exploring the four destinations referenced in Stage II. These landings would begin in 2020.

[edit] Summary

Although Orion development is in an early stage, and it remains to be seen what form it will finally take, NASA is apparently taking exactly the steps recommended for the implementation of Stage I of the report. Therefore it is likely that the three-stage plan suggested in this report will be the plan for the actual Project Constellation. Although it appears that the plan will not be followed exactly, it is possible that elements of it will still be used as a baseline for Constellation exploration strategies (for example, Stage I appears to have become a NASA strategy). The plan does not allow for lunar landings as early as 2015, as suggested in the Bush vision, but does permit an early Mars landing in 2020, contemporaneous with lunar landings by that date.

Building 9 at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas contains a full-scale mock-up simulator of the Orion "capsule." As of July 26, 2006, internal components were being fitted.

[edit] Funding

President Bush's budget request for Fiscal Year 2005 included: "$428 million for Project Constellation ($6.6 billion over five years) to develop a new crew exploration vehicle." The budget for FY2005 was confirmed by the Congress in November 2004 with full funding for the CEV.

The FY2006 budget request includes $753 million for continuing development of the CEV. As of 2005 the total development costs of the CEV are estimated at $ 15 billion.[26]

Lockheed Martin's contract for the initial "Schedule A" part of the Orion project, awarded on August 31, 2006 and running through 2013, is worth $3.9 billion. Additional development options in the "Schedule B" part of the contract could be worth up to another $3.5 billion.[27]

Although to date the exploration systems have received full funding and a House endorsement,[28] there is a possibility that rising Shuttle return to flight costs will make funding of CEV development extremely difficult. There has been discussion of either obtaining a special supplemental from Congress to pay for the extra Shuttle costs, or of involving private industry in CEV development and operations.[29] The total funding of Project Constellation through 2025, inflation-adjusted and without any other increases to NASA's budget, is estimated at $210 billion; the ESAS estimates the cost of the program through that date at being only $7 billion more, at $217 billion.[25] This cost may in fact end up lower as it includes developing new engines for the EDS instead of the newer idea of using J-2 derivatives.[25]

[edit] Nomenclature

In June 2006 the NASA assigned two "notional" names, Altair and Artemis, to the CSM and LSAM spacecraft. However, on 20 July 2006, it was reported[30] that NASA had applied for trademark protection for the name "Orion" as both the name of the CEV spacecraft as a whole and as the name of its overall project to return to the moon. Astronaut Jeff Williams accidentally confirmed this name publicly and prematurely in a NASA communications blunder from the International Space Station on 22 August 2006.[citation needed] In October 2006 NASA announced the official name "Artemis" for the LSAM spacecraft.

Further revisions in nomenclature by NASA are possible before the launch of the first Orion mission.

[edit] Orion Nomenclature (October 2006)

* Orion Command/Service Module (CSM) manned/unmanned multi-role spacecraft
* Artemis[citation needed] Lunar Surface Access Module (LSAM) manned/unmanned lunar logistics vehicle
* Ares I ("The Stick") Medium-lift crew/cargo launch vehicle[1]
* Ares IV Medium-heavy lift launch vehicle announced in February, 2007.[citation needed]
* Ares V Heavy-lift cargo launch vehicle


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_%28spacecraft%29

113
07-22-2007, 03:06 PM
Hey, the fact that the russians did not deny the moon landings happened, is not sufficient evidece to dismiss the hoax theory!

1 Remember watergate?

2 operation Norwoods?

113
07-22-2007, 03:27 PM
There are more sites on the internet supporting the propaganda theory, than the official account of apollo.

I believe the take offs were real obviously, but the astronauts remained in low orbit the entire time. I`m 28 years old and many people of my generation believe it was a hoax, I think the internet has become the downfall of the government`s scam.

People of the generation who wittnnessed appollo never question it , because nearly everyone believed it at the time.

The truth is, if they could have landed on the moon in the 1960`s to early 70`s on numerous occassions, they would have gone there on a regular basis to continue research. They have not claimed to have visited the moon since 1972!

Nitro Express
07-22-2007, 04:43 PM
Don't you think someone would have spilled the beans and told the truth by now if it really was a lie?

Hardrock69
07-23-2007, 09:18 AM
Ok explain this then.

How is it that scientists at observatories on this planet are able to bounce laser beams off the reflective mirrors left on the moon by our astronauts if the astronauts have never been there?
:rolleyes:

113
07-23-2007, 12:18 PM
How do we know the laser beams came from the moon? (Its only nasa`s word)

In all fairness, there probably are laser beams on the moon now, these could have been installed during non manned missions. But in 1969, no way! They certainly won`t have been placed by a human, as any human needs to be surrounded by lead 3 meteres thick to survive the various types of radiation!

Why has nobody spilled the beans then?

$$$$$ Nasa is a corrupt government run organisation , the C I A have been accusssed of murdering many space workers/astronaunts in the 1960`s and early 70`s.

Would you dare to speak out against nasa if you were employed by them( a corupt, dangerous, government agency?

113
03-13-2009, 04:37 PM
It is estimated that 42&#37; of Americans, now believe that the Apollo missions were a simulation, filmed on earth, using special effects. What do you guys think about this?
Bill Clinton has doubts as he mentioned in his autobiography, 2004, My Life!

Matt White
03-13-2009, 04:44 PM
HA!!!

My Gramps told me when I was a kid that they filmed it in New Jersey!

He was quite the character.....

chefcraig
03-13-2009, 04:53 PM
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9982/capricornone.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capricornone.jpg)

ZahZoo
03-13-2009, 07:21 PM
It wasn't faked... geez.

I met Gene Kranz the Mercury and Apollo flight director at NASA during all the Apollo missions. Most famous for his leadership during the failed Apollo 13 mission. Really interesting guy and clearly someone that after a few minutes of speaking you know he's no bullshitter.

Asked his thoughts on the consipiracy theories about the moon missions. He smiled and said... "Nothing but total bullshit. Look son, count every grey hair on my head. I earned every damn one of those at mission control. We put those boys up on the moon and did things hollywood can only dream about today!"

Every theory that has been raised has been debunked.

sierra
03-13-2009, 08:40 PM
The appollo missions were a propaganda film, man can`t go into deep space because of the radiation. They have problems orbiting the earth, so there`s no way they travelled 250 000 miles to the moon in 1969 (government mind control/propaganda)


Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy: Bad TV (http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html)

http://www.clavius.org/

http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/