This abuse bullshit is fucking ridiculous

[Roy Munson]

Where was the fucking outrage when our soldier was hanging from a bridge in Baghdad?

WE ARE A NATION OF PUSSIES!

It's a fucking WAR, not a God damn dodgeball game.

Enough of the Rumsfield witch hunt.

Fucking liberals have turned our country into a bunch of pansies with no backbone.

[Roy Munson]

FORD, before you reply put the situation INTO PERSPECTIVE!

Of course, that's probably impossible for you to do.

:rolleyes:

[Fairwrning]

Originally posted by Roy Munson
Where was the fucking outrage when our soldier was hanging from a bridge in Baghdad?



gotta say...excellent fuckin point.

[FORD]

The perspective here, Roy, is that the guy hanging from the bridge was 1) a Halliburton mercenary er, uh... "contractor" in Iraq of his own free will - NOT a soldier

and

2) already dead at the point his corpse was burned aznd hung up like a Christmas tree.

Now that doesn't justify the act itself, but then I guess you would have to take into account just how you would expect people to react to their country being invaded and occupied.

And who knows? Pictures of these acts of torture, or at least stories about them could have been circulating in Iraq for months. Perhaps it's what fueled the rage in Fallujah in the first place?

You can't justify torturing fucking kids. PERIOD :mad:

[Angel]

If your country was occupied, you would do the exact same thing! Occupy my land, I guarantee I'll fry your ass, and make sure the world sees what happens to those who try to invade.

[Viking]

Mmmmm, yeah, Roy pretty much summed it up.
:killer: :killer: :killer: :killer:

[Dan]

You guys aren't playing war games,so there are no rules.

[Roy Munson]

Originally posted by FORD
The perspective here, Roy, is that the guy hanging from the bridge was 1) a Halliburton mercenary er, uh... "contractor" in Iraq of his own free will - NOT a soldier

and

2) already dead at the point his corpse was burned aznd hung up like a Christmas tree.

Now that doesn't justify the act itself, but then I guess you would have to take into account just how you would expect people to react to their country being invaded and occupied.

And who knows? Pictures of these acts of torture, or at least stories about them could have been circulating in Iraq for months. Perhaps it's what fueled the rage in Fallujah in the first place?

You can't justify torturing fucking kids. PERIOD :mad:


I'M NOT TRYING TO JUSTIFY IT YOU NUMBSKULL!

I'm trying to get people like you to realize which fucking side you're on.

I'm not for ANY of the abuse that has been conducted by these MP's. In fact, it makes me sick. But, let's think about this once and for all. When one of our soldiers dies and his/her body is desecrated by some Iraqi militia what do we, as Americans, do? We start crying and our fear and emotions, which have been drilled into our heads for years now by the liberal culture, take over so that we throw reason out the door. We don't want to see reality. We say, "bring our soldiers home if they're getting killed"!

We are PUSSIES! It's all thanks to the fucking baby boomers who pretty much fucked up a whole generation starting with the hippy revolution in the late 60's and continues on today with the baby boomer's spoiled-brat, ADD, ritilin-popping fucked-up kids.

We were ATTACKED on 9-11. You liberals seem to have conveniently forgot that. The only thing you care about is how bad we look in the eyes of the international community. FUCK THE INTYERNATIONAL COMMUNITY! We fucking carry the World on our shoulders and what the hell do we ever get? NOTHING. All we get is this unwarranted evil image which the liberals just LOVE. The international community should KISS OUR FUCKING ASS pure and simple.

So, we see our soldiers die and who cares?

We see some Iraqi militia being mistreated and LOOK OUT WE'RE THE FUCKING DEVIL. Oh, the atrocities!

Perspective is a tough thing when you are blind to the cause.

[lucky wilbury]

gotta agree with roy. the was NO outrage at what happen to the blackwater people,not halliburton, the two are totally unrelated. it was CHEERED in the arab world. these pricks had their pictures taken and they were still alive. when we whack one of them and light em up for all to see then we'll talk.

[John Ashcroft]

Remember CNN suppressed Saddam's atrocities to gain access in Baghdad???

That's a great fucking question Roy! Just what fucking side are you fuckheads on???

If not ours, move to Iraq. Become a "human shield". Put your fucking money where your mouth is! I've done it! I've fought in Clinton's wars. I've done so voluntarily! I believe in the inherent goodness of freedom and democracy. I think it's a good thing to spread, and think absolutely no people on the entire planet are incapable of "handling" freedom and prosperity. I don't think Arabs are backwards sub-humans that work best under dictatorships. Maybe the "populist" party should re-examine their view of their fellow man.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Angel
If your country was occupied, you would do the exact same thing! Occupy my land, I guarantee I'll fry your ass, and make sure the world sees what happens to those who try to invade.

Shut your pie hole, or we'll use you as bombing practice. :gulp:

[bonefish]

Originally posted by fairwrning
gotta say...excellent fuckin point.
Ignorants please stop exposing your ignorance. You can book a flight to the Middle East if you want to fight them and not talk about others doing all the fighting AND DYING. They have freedom fighter civilians from all over the globe coming to Iraq to fight the fasci-U.S. government.

Why don't you go as a U.S. civilian and get in on the fight? PUSSY! That's because you're a real ignorant PUSSY. A real fighter would kill you before you could get a good sun tan out there. SHUT UP!

SHUT UP!

SHUT UP!

Ignorants here's what you missed in your call for more dead U.S. soldiers.

THOSE GUYS WERE PRIVATE CONTRACTORS!

THOSE GUYS WERE NOT U.S. SOLDIERS!

THOSE GUYS MADE 20 TIMES MORE MONEY IN ONE FUCKING MONTH THAN A U.S. SOLDIER MAKES IN ONE YEAR!

SHUT UP BEFORE ONE MORE U.S. SOLDEIR DIES FROM YOUR MOUTH.

SHUT UP!

SHUT UP!

[Fairwrning]

Originally posted by bonefish
Ignorants please stop exposing your ignorance. You can book a flight to the Middle East if you want to fight them and not talk about others doing all the fighting AND DYING. They have freedom fighter civilians from all over the globe coming to Iraq to fight the fasci-U.S. government.

Why don't you go as a U.S. civilian and get in on the fight? PUSSY! That's because you're a real ignorant PUSSY. A real fighter would kill you before you could get a good sun tan out there. SHUT UP!



what the fuck are you going off about??!! I was simply agreeing with the fact that more people are upset with the abused Iraqi's compared to americans being dragged down a fucking street...


i have no desire to go to Iraq...I have much respect for any soldier or any american in general that has the balls to step one foot in that hell hole.

I have no doubt that a "real " fighter would whack me in no time...thats pretty much all they do well over there....kill people...

my solution to the problem would be to pull everybody out and nuke the place....but then, i guess its a good thing i'm not president...i am too ignorant:(

[FORD]

Originally posted by fairwrning
i guess its a good thing i'm not president...i am too ignorant:(

And how would that be different from what we're stuck with now?

[DaveIsKing]

I agree with Roy.

Goddamn all that bullshit pussy-ass, liberal, globalism faggotry.

Ok, I've used all my bad words for the day. :D

[Roy Munson]

Originally posted by bonefish
Ignorants please stop exposing your ignorance. You can book a flight to the Middle East if you want to fight them and not talk about others doing all the fighting AND DYING. They have freedom fighter civilians from all over the globe coming to Iraq to fight the fasci-U.S. government.

Why don't you go as a U.S. civilian and get in on the fight? PUSSY! That's because you're a real ignorant PUSSY. A real fighter would kill you before you could get a good sun tan out there. SHUT UP!

SHUT UP!

SHUT UP!

Ignorants here's what you missed in your call for more dead U.S. soldiers.

THOSE GUYS WERE PRIVATE CONTRACTORS!

THOSE GUYS WERE NOT U.S. SOLDIERS!

THOSE GUYS MADE 20 TIMES MORE MONEY IN ONE FUCKING MONTH THAN A U.S. SOLDIER MAKES IN ONE YEAR!

SHUT UP BEFORE ONE MORE U.S. SOLDEIR DIES FROM YOUR MOUTH.

SHUT UP!

SHUT UP!


LOL!

You fucking pathetic piece of shit. By the way you're sounding you should go over there and fight for the terrorists. You make me sick.

"Freedom Fighters"?

LMFAO!!!

WE, THE USA, HAVE GIVEN THEM FREEDOM. What, do you have shit for brains?

I see it. You hate the "fasci-U.S. government". That's nice. I guess that means that YOU are going to Iraq to help out your "freedom fighter" bun-buddies? No? Why? Because YOU are the fucking PUSSY and a Goddamned HYPOCRITE ON TOP OF IT. DON'T COME AROUND HERE PREACHING WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN LIVE BY THE VERY WORDS YOU SAY.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

SHUT THE FUCK UP!

SHUT THE FUCK UP!

SHUT THE FUCK UP!

SHUT THE FUCK UP!

[Jesus Christ]

Verily, it seemeth this thread hath become a match of "Dueling Bill O'Reilly's"

[High Life Man]

Originally posted by FORD
You can't justify torturing fucking kids. PERIOD :mad:

If the kid kills a US soldier, then damn right torture is justified.

[FORD]

Originally posted by High Life Man
If the kid kills a US soldier, then damn right torture is justified.

And where's the evidence that such a thing took place?

[Mr Grimsdale]

Originally posted by bonefish
THOSE GUYS MADE 20 TIMES MORE MONEY IN ONE FUCKING MONTH THAN A U.S. SOLDIER MAKES IN ONE YEAR!

I thought the going rate was about $1000 a day?
That's only $20000 a month.

[lucky wilbury]

Originally posted by FORD
And where's the evidence that such a thing took place?

and where's your evidence to back up your torturing kids claim?

[FORD]

Originally posted by lucky wilbury
and where's your evidence to back up your torturing kids claim?

I'm sure the pictures are floating around your office already.

[lucky wilbury]

nope. i work on other things and i don't have an office or a cubicle

[King VH]

ford is a fuckin idiot

[King VH]

roy is right, this is the exact same shit that they are doing to our men. Why is everyone so outraged when it's an Iraqi?

[FORD]

Originally posted by david d. roth
ford is a fuckin idiot

At least I know how to vote ;)

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by FORD
At least I know how to vote ;)
You don't live in Florida, I'm sure you do know how to vote, you just vote for the wrong people. ;)

[Roth & Roll]

We call the fuckin Van Hagar fans sheep. yet anyone who agrees with this atrocity of a war is an even bigger fuckin sheep than all the Van Hagarites combined.

Get's get a few facts straight once and for all.

1) US soldiers have no business in Iraq anymore. They wanted Hussein, they got him. Now get the fuck out and leave these people alone. By torturing Iraqi civilians, we are no damn better than the terrorists responsible for 9/11. We are doing the same exact thing they did. We're taking out our anger against political leaders on innocent civilians.

2) The US has become a damn disgrace to the rest of the world. Every country who refused to help the US in their witch hunt of Saddam is now justified in not wanting to help. I guess our leaders really didn't learn anything from Vietnam after all.

3) The only reason Bush invaded Iraq was for their oil. Period! Anyone who honestly believes that American troops are there to liberate the Iraqi people is...a sheep. The humiliation and embarrassment the American troops have put these people through is just as bad as anything that Hussein ever did to them. There is nothing worse in this world than to take away someone's dignity and that's exactly what the American troops have done to these people.
Funny, but I don't see anyone willing to help the Somalians; could it be because they have absolutely nothing of value to Bush and his da-da?

4) Does anyone honestly believe that there won't be retaliation towards the US from the Arab world? When it happens, who is going to get attacked? Bush? Nope - innocent civilians. We're just pawns in Bush's game of chess. This guy is a disgrace to the USA and the sooner people figure this out, the better off all of us will be.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Roth & Roll
The only reason Bush invaded Iraq was for their oil. Period!

We're just pawns in Bush's game of chess.


LMFFEAO !!

:elvis:

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Roth & Roll
We call the fuckin Van Hagar fans sheep. yet anyone who agrees with this atrocity of a war is an even bigger fuckin sheep than all the Van Hagarites combined.

Get's get a few facts straight once and for all.

1) US soldiers have no business in Iraq anymore. They wanted Hussein, they got him. Now get the fuck out and leave these people alone.

Can't. That's being sloppy and if we tookout their leader and then left them shrugging and asking what now, we would look even worse.

[BlimpyCHIMP™]

RAY MASON MAN YOU ARE ONE ANGRY BASTARD

[FORD]

Originally posted by Roth & Roll


3) The only reason Bush invaded Iraq was for their oil.

Actually, that's not true. Granted, the amount of money they have made, and will make, as a result of controlling the #2 oil reserve on the planet certainly didn't hurt.

But the primary reason for the invasion was to begin implementation of the PNAC agenda. This agenda had its roots in the Bush Sr administration, but Poppy himself rejected the plan. He at least had the brains to know that overthrowing the Hussein regime would lead to exactly the kind of mess that in fact is taking place right now.

The PNAC'ers next step was to write "strategies" for the right wing extremist Likud party of Israel. That's Sharon and his predecessor Netanyahu (though there was a resonable guy, Barak, in between) The PNAC authors, in an act of unparallelled treason, began planning out this entire scenario with a foreign government, including the fact that they would need "an event such as a new Pearl Harbor" in order to sell their agenda to the American people.

So it's not just control of the oil. It's control, period. Of the entire Middle East, and if they are allowed to get away with that, China and Russia are next.

And you think Iraq went bad??

[diamondD]

Damn, I was hoping North Korea would be next.

[ELVIS]

Keep on believing that bullshit FORD...

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Keep on believing that bullshit FORD...

It's not bullshit, it's spelled out in their own documents, which are readily available on their own website.

[FORD]

Originally posted by diamondD
Damn, I was hoping North Korea would be next.

It should have been first, if weapons of mass destruction actually had anything to do with BCE/PNAC motives. Or what about Pakistan, a terrorist supporting country which actually has NUKES?

It's entirely possible that the reason the BCE is pulling US troops out of the Korean DMZ is because they intend to provoke the situation, letting the South Koreans do the dirty work. Though I suppose BCE spiritual advisor "Reverend" Sun Myung Moon probably wouldn't be too happy if the Koreans nuked the shit out of each other.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by FORD
It's not bullshit, it's spelled out in their own documents, which are readily available on their own website.


Dude.. I've looked into all of your conspiracy bullshit...

It's not true...

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Roth & Roll
We call the fuckin Van Hagar fans sheep. yet anyone who agrees with this atrocity of a war is an even bigger fuckin sheep than all the Van Hagarites combined.

Get's get a few facts straight once and for all.

1) US soldiers have no business in Iraq anymore. They wanted Hussein, they got him. Now get the fuck out and leave these people alone. By torturing Iraqi civilians, we are no damn better than the terrorists responsible for 9/11. We are doing the same exact thing they did. We're taking out our anger against political leaders on innocent civilians.

2) The US has become a damn disgrace to the rest of the world. Every country who refused to help the US in their witch hunt of Saddam is now justified in not wanting to help. I guess our leaders really didn't learn anything from Vietnam after all.

3) The only reason Bush invaded Iraq was for their oil. Period! Anyone who honestly believes that American troops are there to liberate the Iraqi people is...a sheep. The humiliation and embarrassment the American troops have put these people through is just as bad as anything that Hussein ever did to them. There is nothing worse in this world than to take away someone's dignity and that's exactly what the American troops have done to these people.
Funny, but I don't see anyone willing to help the Somalians; could it be because they have absolutely nothing of value to Bush and his da-da?

4) Does anyone honestly believe that there won't be retaliation towards the US from the Arab world? When it happens, who is going to get attacked? Bush? Nope - innocent civilians. We're just pawns in Bush's game of chess. This guy is a disgrace to the USA and the sooner people figure this out, the better off all of us will be.

Smarter monkeys, please. Cock can even put up a better argument than this, and that's not saying much. :gulp:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Can't. That's being sloppy and if we tookout their leader and then left them shrugging and asking what now, we would look even worse.

I don't think that's possible.

[knuckleboner]

here's the outrage problem.

the 4 dead americans DID receive some outrage here. but not really any more so than any of the OTHER americans who are dying there, unfortunately somewhat regularly. (no, i'm not saying that it's a quagmire. deaths happen in a military action. it's tragic. but it's reality.)

the problem with the "abuse" at the iraqi prisons is that it wasn't expected.

we went in to "liberate" iraq. that's what we told them. that's what we told the world. maybe this isn't really bad torture. maybe it's largely harmless. so what? the perception matters.

what do we expect the response to be if our president tells the people on one hand that we're freeing them from a brutal dictator. and on the other hand, we have prisons that appear to apply torture?

it isn't pussy-ism that says this might be a problem. it's pragmatism. don't think that bush just decided to apologize to appease the liberals. he's doing it to reinforce to the middle east that we really aren't trying to replace a brutal tyrant with a more benevolant, softer-torture-tyrant.

[Hollywood Jesus]

No logic nor balance around here.

War is hell. Liberals forget that force finally makes your words mean something. All bets are off. Exterminate those damn desert rats. Sure as hell don't cry when a desert rat gets humiliated or killed. All brains, no balls.

Conservatives forget that world perception is important to national security. The US is indeed arrogant and stubborn with its power. We went into Iraq too quick and without a plan for on the backside. All balls, no brains.

Neither Bush nor Kerry has both brains and balls. Hold onto your ass.

[Roth & Roll]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Smarter monkeys, please. Cock can even put up a better argument than this, and that's not saying much. :gulp:

Keep your blinders on while they're leading you to the slaughterhouse.

Good luck, God knows you're going to need it.

[lucky wilbury]

Originally posted by Roth & Roll
We call the fuckin Van Hagar fans sheep. yet anyone who agrees with this atrocity of a war is an even bigger fuckin sheep than all the Van Hagarites combined.

Get's get a few facts straight once and for all.

1) US soldiers have no business in Iraq anymore. They wanted Hussein, they got him. Now get the fuck out and leave these people alone.

we weren't just after saddam. we were and still are after terrorists that have been in iraq and were and still are committing terrorist acts againest theu USA. a short list of them weather they are still at large,captured or deceased would be:

Abu Nidal- deceased. was wanted for a number of attacks againest the USA

Abdul Rahman Yasin- still at large. wanted for the 1993 wtc attack

Abu Abbas- captured later died in custody wanted for the highjacking of the achilli lorio

Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi- still at large wanted for the assination of a us diplomat and is currently running terror orgs from iraq

those are just a few of the people we went to iraq for. since they are still at large in iraq we still have to hunt them down. and if you want to get into an iraq-al queda connection i'll be happy to do so. hell i'll even only use pre jan 01 clinton adminstrion only statments talking about an iraq-al queda connection. just let me know if you want to go down that route.




Originally posted by Roth & Roll
By torturing Iraqi civilians, we are no damn better than the terrorists responsible for 9/11. We are doing the same exact thing they did.

that has to be the dumbest thing written on this board for two reason: no one has been totured in iraq. no of the pics show anyone getting their legs broke, punched or kicked etc etc. they might be embasressed but not tortured. secondly to say crashing planes into buildings with people doing their jobs is a far far cry from someone getting naked in a picture. no one died having their picture taken now have they?




Originally posted by Roth & Roll
We're taking out our anger against political leaders on innocent civilians.

2) The US has become a damn disgrace to the rest of the world. Every country who refused to help the US in their witch hunt of Saddam is now justified in not wanting to help. I guess our leaders really didn't learn anything from Vietnam after all.


no "everybody" didn't refuse us. here's a list of countries that are with us:

Britain
Australia
Denmark
Poland
Afghanistan
Albania
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
the Czech Republic
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Hungary
Italy
Japan
South Korea
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
the Netherlands
Nicaragua
the Philippines
Romania
Slovakia
Uzbekistan

lets not forget the help we're getting from Qatar,Saudi Arabia,Kuwait and Barhain as well. they al recognized the threats and the dangers from saddam and signed on. the only reason people like france and germany weren't wwith us is because they were being bought off by saddam and the current oil for food scandel proves that.



Originally posted by Roth & Roll
3) The only reason Bush invaded Iraq was for their oil. Period!

was is all about oil when bush turned down saddam offers to let only is companies into iraq and under tkae demcratic reforms? that offer was on the table and we said no. is it all about oil when we are letting outside auditors run iraqs oil fields? yep it's all about oil :rolleyes:


Originally posted by Roth & Roll
Anyone who honestly believes that American troops are there to liberate the Iraqi people is...a sheep.

so you calling all the us soliders who belive that sheep. all the soldiers who write home and tell their families that they get thanked daily in iraq. oh yeah their sheep all right :rolleyes:


Originally posted by Roth & Roll
The humiliation and embarrassment the American troops have put these people through is just as bad as anything that Hussein ever did to them. There is nothing worse in this world than to take away someone's dignity and that's exactly what the American troops have done to these people.

really nothing worse? how about putting people in a wood chipper would that be worse? or cutting out peoples eyes? pushing them off the roofs of builings? straping explosives to them and blowing them up? you know standard fare in saddams iraq.



Originally posted by Roth & Roll
Funny, but I don't see anyone willing to help the Somalians; could it be because they have absolutely nothing of value to Bush and his da-da?

thats funny because we were already there in 1992 during operation restore hope. you know the operation where bush's da da sent us forces into somilia to help get food through. clinotn pulled our people out for good in 93.


Originally posted by Roth & Roll
4) Does anyone honestly believe that there won't be retaliation towards the US from the Arab world? When it happens, who is going to get attacked? Bush? Nope - innocent civilians. We're just pawns in Bush's game of chess. This guy is a disgrace to the USA and the sooner people figure this out, the better off all of us will be.


for your whole little rant you kept calling everyone sheep this and sheep that yet you used the same old tired arguement's that have been flatend time and time again. when you get an orignal thought other then its about oil then come back.

[Roth & Roll]

Originally posted by lucky wilbury
we weren't just after saddam. we were and still are after terrorists that have been in iraq and were and still are committing terrorist acts againest theu USA. a short list of them weather they are still at large,captured or deceased would be:

Abu Nidal- deceased. was wanted for a number of attacks againest the USA

Abdul Rahman Yasin- still at large. wanted for the 1993 wtc attack

Abu Abbas- captured later died in custody wanted for the highjacking of the achilli lorio

Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi- still at large wanted for the assination of a us diplomat and is currently running terror orgs from iraq

those are just a few of the people we went to iraq for. since they are still at large in iraq we still have to hunt them down. and if you want to get into an iraq-al queda connection i'll be happy to do so. hell i'll even only use pre jan 01 clinton adminstrion only statments talking about an iraq-al queda connection. just let me know if you want to go down that route.

Give me a fuckin break. Your argument is beyond weak and anyone with an IQ of over 20 could figure that out. "Looking for terrorists"??
So what ever happened to the search for Bin Laden?? Or are you going to say he is hiding in Iraq too? :rolleyes:





Originally posted by lucky wilbury

that has to be the dumbest thing written on this board for two reason: no one has been totured in iraq. no of the pics show anyone getting their legs broke, punched or kicked etc etc. they might be embasressed but not tortured. secondly to say crashing planes into buildings with people doing their jobs is a far far cry from someone getting naked in a picture. no one died having their picture taken now have they?

1) The fact that you find the need to personally insult me for stating my opinion shows some serious insecurity on your behalf.

2) Are you trying to say with a straight face that jailing someone and then taking away every ounce of human dignity is not torture? Personally I would rather die than have the meaning of my existence be nothing more than a punch line to sadistic captors.

3) Once again, you seem to have a confused view of reality. If you're going to bring up the tragic events that unfolded on 9/11/01 at least keep them within the realm of discussion. What the fuck do Iraqi civilians have to do with Bin Laden??






Originally posted by lucky wilbury


no "everybody" didn't refuse us. here's a list of countries that are with us:

Britain
Australia
Denmark
Poland
Afghanistan
Albania
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
the Czech Republic
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Hungary
Italy
Japan
South Korea
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
the Netherlands
Nicaragua
the Philippines
Romania
Slovakia
Uzbekistan

lets not forget the help we're getting from Qatar,Saudi Arabia,Kuwait and Barhain as well. they al recognized the threats and the dangers from saddam and signed on. the only reason people like france and germany weren't wwith us is because they were being bought off by saddam and the current oil for food scandel proves that.


Yeah and what else do all those countries have in common? They are rely heavily on G.B and the U.S. economically. They really didn't have a choice unless they were willing to face economic sanctions. That's not "voluntary help". That's basically blackmail for all intents and purposes. Look at the sanctions the U.S. placed on Canada as a reference for further proof of this.



Originally posted by lucky wilbury

was is all about oil when bush turned down saddam offers to let only is companies into iraq and under tkae demcratic reforms? that offer was on the table and we said no. is it all about oil when we are letting outside auditors run iraqs oil fields? yep it's all about oil :rolleyes:
This is beyond laughable. You conveniently omit a very important fact here - a fact that has been documented and is easily accesible by doing a simple websearch on Google - and that is the fact that Saddam had an exclusive deal to sell a lion's share of the oil exported by Iraq to France which is why the French were so against any and all military action against Iraq. If you think Bush isn't there
for the oil, then please explain to me why the first thing the U.S. troops secured in Iraq was the pipelines?? Again, do some research and read the facts for yourself.



Originally posted by lucky wilbury


so you calling all the us soliders who belive that sheep. all the soldiers who write home and tell their families that they get thanked daily in iraq. oh yeah their sheep all right :rolleyes:



No, I never said that. You're basically fabricating things in a weak attempt to try to augment an argument which is based on your blind faith and seriously lacking in facts. The soldiers who are in Iraq are simply following orders and I don't doubt that most of them are there in good faith. The people I'm calling sheep are the ones who buy into all the bogus propaganda that Bush Jr., Rumsfield and the rest of their cronies are feeding the masses. By the way where are all those weapons of mass destruction that they were supposedly looking for anyway? Hmmm?


Originally posted by lucky wilbury


really nothing worse? how about putting people in a wood chipper would that be worse? or cutting out peoples eyes? pushing them off the roofs of builings? straping explosives to them and blowing them up? you know standard fare in saddams iraq

True, but let's not forget that the only reason Saddam ammased the power that he had was because the U.S.A. gave it to him in the first place. Funny, but the U.S. loved Saddam when he was at war with Iran back in 1980 and gave him whatever he wanted in order to defeat Iran whom the U.S. considered it's biggest enemy at that point in time.

The same holds true with Bin Laden during the Soviet-Afghanistan war.
This is simply poorly planned U.S. foreign policies coming back to bite them in the ass.




Originally posted by lucky wilbury


thats funny because we were already there in 1992 during operation restore hope. you know the operation where bush's da da sent us forces into somilia to help get food through. clinotn pulled our people out for good in 93.


And if Somalia had anything of value to the USA they wouldn't have pulled their troops after one whole year while Somalians are still starving today.



Originally posted by lucky wilbury


for your whole little rant you kept calling everyone sheep this and sheep that yet you used the same old tired arguement's that have been flatend time and time again. when you get an orignal thought other then its about oil then come back.

No, I don't need to invent "original thoughts" in my "little rant". I'm merely stating facts that you're obviously blind towards. Perhaps you should educate yourself on the facts and history and you won't come across as an ignorant, narrow-minded, redneck, "Lucky".

[lucky wilbury]

Originally posted by Roth & Roll
Give me a fuckin break. Your argument is beyond weak and anyone with an IQ of over 20 could figure that out. "Looking for terrorists"??

can take the truth? can take the fact that we're after terrorists who have killed americans? what i stated was only one reason we went to iraq like i said you want to go down the iraq -al quida connection i'll be more then happy to. hell if you want to go over the us policy on iraq like we can do that too. i have no problem covering pl 105-235 and the iraq liberation act again. you know those clinton era laws that talked about saddams wmd and the US ultimate goal to liberate iraq. but let me guess clinton was after the oil too right? :rolleyes:


Originally posted by Roth & Roll
So what ever happened to the search for Bin Laden?? Or are you going to say he is hiding in Iraq too? :rolleyes:

yes what about that search. hmm lets see there are more troops now in afghanistan then there have ever been at any other point in history. the military is searching for him and doing a damn fine job as well.


Originally posted by Roth & Roll
1) The fact that you find the need to personally insult me for stating my opinion shows some serious insecurity on your behalf.

2) Are you trying to say with a straight face that jailing someone and then taking away every ounce of human dignity is not torture? Personally I would rather die than have the meaning of my existence be nothing more than a punch line to sadistic captors.

it is not torture and everyone knows that. these guys had their picture taken with hoods on their heads they don't now what the hell happend. torture si what happend to people like john mccain. THATS torture.



Originally posted by Roth & Roll
3) Once again, you seem to have a confused view of reality. If you're going to bring up the tragic events that unfolded on 9/11/01 at least keep them within the realm of discussion. What the fuck do Iraqi civilians have to do with Bin Laden??

YOU brought it up


Originally posted by Roth & Roll
By torturing Iraqi civilians, we are no damn better than the terrorists responsible for 9/11. We are doing the same exact thing they did.

theres a huge difference. we didn't kill anyone. they did. they knowing targeted civilians we didn't. the people in the jail are murders and terrorists. they are not innocent. and to top it all off they weren't killed they people were on 9-11


Originally posted by Roth & Roll
Yeah and what else do all those countries have in common? They are rely heavily on G.B and the U.S. economically. They really didn't have a choice unless they were willing to face economic sanctions. That's not "voluntary help". That's basically blackmail for all intents and purposes. Look at the sanctions the U.S. placed on Canada as a reference for further proof of this.


Britain,Australia,Denmark,Poland,the Czech Republic,South Korea,Japan, the Netherlands,Italy rely on us? think again. if countries that relied on the us for money were the only ones that would help us then egypt,jordan, the P.A. and Germany would all be with us. but their not. besides contributing troops most of the countires listed are also providing billions of dollars in aid to iraq not to mention the debt relif provided by other countries you know like russia and china. how about saudi arabia? they don't get any money from us and they were helping right out as well.




Originally posted by Roth & Roll
This is beyond laughable. You conveniently omit a very important fact here - a fact that has been documented and is easily accesible by doing a simple websearch on Google - and that is the fact that Saddam had an exclusive deal to sell a lion's share of the oil exported by Iraq to France which is why the French were so against any and all military action against Iraq.

your missing the point. saddam offered us all the oil we wanted as long as he stayed in power. he said he would undertake democratic reforms as well. why don't you do a google search and find out why france got the oil? here's why bribary and kick backs to him from the french which is why the is an investigation of the oil for food program right now.




Originally posted by Roth & Roll
If you think Bush isn't there for the oil, then please explain to me why the first thing the U.S. troops secured in Iraq was the pipelines?? Again, do some research and read the facts for yourself.

gee i don't know maybe this is why:

http://www.yptenc.org.uk/docs/dailygecko_news/newsimages/news_images3/gulf-war_oil.jpg

they didn't want saddam to torch them again and cause and disaster.






Originally posted by Roth & Roll
No, I never said that. You're basically fabricating things in a weak attempt to try to augment an argument which is based on your blind faith and seriously lacking in facts.

no. we've had people post on this board as well as ddlr things that their either fathers or cousins told them about whats going on in iraq. nothing is fabricated


Originally posted by Roth & Roll
The soldiers who are in Iraq are simply following orders and I don't doubt that most of them are there in good faith. The people I'm calling sheep are the ones who buy into all the bogus propaganda that Bush Jr., Rumsfield and the rest of their cronies are feeding the masses.

and whats that that there are only a few people who did these things or that bush is outraged by them?



Originally posted by Roth & Roll
By the way where are all those weapons of mass destruction that they were supposedly looking for anyway? Hmmm?

would you be refering to these?:

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/allpolitics/0310/gallery.kay.report/gal.vials.jpg

"We now have three cases in which scientists have come forward with equipment, technology, diagrams, documents and, in this case, actual weapons material, reference strains and botulinum toxin that they were told to hide and that the U.N. didn't find,"

david kay

or how about the ones clinton was talking about thoughout the 90's and even as recently at the end of 2003 that saddam had. was he making them up? or how about tony blair? you know him that far left leader in england who said saddam had wmd. was he in it for the oil?




Originally posted by Roth & Roll
True, but let's not forget that the only reason Saddam ammased the power that he had was because the U.S.A. gave it to him in the first place. Funny, but the U.S. loved Saddam when he was at war with Iran back in 1980 and gave him whatever he wanted in order to defeat Iran whom the U.S. considered it's biggest enemy at that point in time.


we didn't give saddam anything. iraq's military is all russian, french and german equipment. NOTHING american.


Originally posted by Roth & Roll
The same holds true with Bin Laden during the Soviet-Afghanistan war.

obl didn't do shit during that war except provide money.


Originally posted by Roth & Roll
This is simply poorly planned U.S. foreign policies coming back to bite them in the ass.

And if Somalia had anything of value to the USA they wouldn't have pulled their troops after one whole year while Somalians are still starving today.

we pulled out and let the UN take over. then when the un had problems in 93 we went back in then clinton pulled our troops back out. no one's there now because they literally bit the hand that feeds them when they started killing un peacekeepers.



Originally posted by Roth & Roll
No, I don't need to invent "original thoughts" in my "little rant". I'm merely stating facts that you're obviously blind towards.

you haven't stated anything. all you've said is oil this and oil that.



Originally posted by Roth & Roll
Perhaps you should educate yourself on the facts and history and you won't come across as an ignorant, narrow-minded, redneck, "Lucky".

oh yeah i'm ignorant:rolleyes: i've stated had facts to back up what i say you've stated opinions. whats the matter can't handle the truth? i can't wait for you tto respond to this latest post. i wanna see you make a fool of yourself again. nothing says that your a redneck like being from nyc.