Unfit for Command

[ODShowtime]

Unfit for Command

Pat BuchananTue Oct 16, 3:00 AM ET

Observing Speaker Nancy Pelosi and a Democratic House imperil a U.S.-Turkish alliance of 60 years — by formally charging Turkey with genocide in a 1915 massacre of the Armenians — the question comes to mind:

Does this generation have the maturity to lead America?

About the horrors visited on Armenians in 1915, that year of Turkish triumph over the Royal Navy in the Dardanelles, which led to the ouster of First Lord Winston Churchill, and of victory over the British-French-ANZAC invasion force on Gallipoli, there is no doubt.

Between 1915 and 1923, as modern Turkey was being torn out of the womb of a dying Ottoman Empire, a million or more Armenians died in massacres and a forced exodus. It was one of the monstrous crimes and terrible tragedies of a 20th century that abounded in both.

That Armenian-Americans wish to have their holocaust recognized is understandable. But that Democrats could not put off that request — for Congress to officially charge Turkey with genocide, 90 years ago — is not.

For what was the necessity for the House to take this sensitive moment in U.S.-Turkish relations to rub our allies' noses in century-old sins by equating their fathers with Hitler and Himmler?

What was their motive?

Answer: House Democrats are pandering to an Armenian lobby that has long sought to have the United States formally declare that what Turks did to them is exactly what Nazis did to the Jews. The genocide resolution now goes to the floor, where Pelosi promises swift passage.

One trusts Democrats will be rewarded, for the damage they have done to the national interest is great.

In Turkey, America has always been regarded more warmly than the other Western democracies. We never declared war on Turkey in 1917. We were not party to the secret Sykes-Picot deal that carved up the Ottoman Empire. Though Woodrow Wilson agreed in Paris to accept a U.S. trusteeship of Constantinople, which would have put us on a collision course with Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's nation, the Senate rejected it.

When, after World War II, Stalin pressed down on Turkey, the Turks were among the first beneficiaries of Marshall Plan and Truman Doctrine aid. Turks reciprocated by sending their sons to fight beside Americans in Korea. They were then brought into NATO.

The Turks accepted U.S. intermediate-range ballistic missiles targeted on the Soviet Union, then accepted their removal as part of JFK's secret deal with Nikita Khrushchev to end the Cuban missile crisis.

No nation has been a better friend or more reliable ally. Since the first days of the Cold War, Turkey hosted U.S. bases. And few nations are more crucial than this land bridge between Islam and the West, between the Middle East and Europe. Turkey is a crossroads of the world.

But the relationship has deteriorated.

The Turks opposed the U.S. invasion of Iraq, arguing, rightly it turns out, that Saddam was no threat to the region. The Turks refused to allow us to use their territory for a northern front in the invasion of Iraq. Yet, today, Turkey is indispensable to Gen. Petraeus. Turkish drivers deliver munitions and supplies overland to Iraq. Turkish bases, like Incirlik, are used by the U.S. Air Force to support American troops in Iraq.

Ankara's reward: to have Congress vote to condemn Turkey's founding fathers as genocidal murderers.

Understandably, Turks are coming to see the alliance as a one-way street and themselves as forgotten friends. For we have failed to convince the Kurds we shelter in northern Iraq to rein in their terrorist cousins, who are using Iraqi territory as a privileged sanctuary from which to attack the Turkish army. Two dozen Turkish soldiers have been murdered in two separate attacks in recent weeks by the PKK.

When Pancho Villa raided Columbus, N.M., in 1916, and killed dozens of Americans, Wilson sent Gen. Pershing and an army of 12,000 into Mexico to run him down. Turks have the same right of hot pursuit, and they feel the same rage. For the Leninists of the PKK were responsible for a 15-year war in which some 37,000 Turks and Kurds died before 1999, when a truce was declared.

By reigniting a war of terror in Turkey and using bases in Iraq from which to attack, the PKK appears to be provoking a Turkish invasion of Iraq, which could deal a mortal blow to the U.S.-Turkish alliance and would be a disaster for U.S. policy in Iraq. Meanwhile, Iranian Kurds of a related terror group, PEJAK, have been conducting attacks inside Iran. Iran, like Turkey, has been responding with artillery fire into Iraq.

The United States needs to sit down with our Kurdish friends and explain that in return for U.S. protection, they are to rein in the PKK and PEJAK before they drag us into a wider war.

As for Ms. Pelosi & Co., they seem determined to prove the point that, no matter the failures of Bush & Co., the Democrats are unfit for command.


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I was thinking about this the other day. We're trying to convince Turkey not to invade northern iraq. Now the House wants to chastise them for something that happened almost 100 years ago? WTF? It's almost like they're trying to undermine the situation in iraq. I know alot of mutton heads have said that here before, but this looks like the real deal!
Unless we're using it as leverage... maybe.

[FORD]

Fuck Nancy AIPAC Pelosi. She can take Chimpeachment off the table, but she's got time to fuck around with something that happenned nearly a century ago??

February can't come soon enough for me, the way this shit's going.

[Nickdfresh]

Don't you think you're being a little harsh, Ford?

How would Bush be impeached when they don't have the votes, and then why bother to remove him form office just in time for his term to expire?

And should nations like the Turks be allowed to pretty much just deny the atrocities in their past? If they had owned up to it by now instead of trying to systematically bully and silence their critics, then no one would even bother with this...

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Should nations like the Turks be allowed to pretty much just deny the atrocities in their past? If they had owned up to it by now instead of trying to systematically bully and silence their critics, then no one would even bother with this...

After 90 years, I think it can wait at least until after the turks remove their army from the border of iraq. Shit's getting hot over there. There's no reason to fan the flames in that direction.

[Jim Shetterlini]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
After 90 years, I think it can wait at least until after the turks remove their army from the border of iraq. Shit's getting hot over there. There's no reason to fan the flames in that direction.

It is intentional to undermine the success of the Petraeus plan for Iraq. See it is is simple to understand really, the dems in both the house and the senate lost big time poilitical capital whne the Gen. came there about a month ago and they are in a position now as a party where success or victory in Iraq is not an option so they are trying any action viable to cause havoc in the region to slow or impede more progress in Iraq. BElieve it or not, there are people or a party in this country that would actually rather see their country lose or not succeed than their party be on the losing side of one of the biggest issues in the nation's history.

[Jim Shetterlini]

Where is the outcry against Joe Stalin and all the communist of the former Soviet Union and the mass killings that went on in their own country when the Bolshevik's took over in the early 1900's. There was a shitload more butchered then, than what we are talking about with Turkey and I don't hear old Pelosi taking anything up with everybody's bad ass Putin. But then again, what the hell would that help her politically......ah not much!

[LoungeMachine]

:rolleyes:

Another freeper.

lucky us.

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh

And should nations like the Turks be allowed to pretty much just deny the atrocities in their past? If they had owned up to it by now instead of trying to systematically bully and silence their critics, then no one would even bother with this...

And this effort remedies that...how? :rolleyes:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Blackflag
And this effort remedies that...how? :rolleyes:

You're right. Fuck it! Forget the Holocaust while we're at it! we wouldn't want to offend the fucking Germans or piss them off...

:rolleyes:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Jim Shetterlini
It is intentional to undermine the success of the Petraeus plan for Iraq. See it is is simple to understand really, the dems in both the house and the senate lost big time poilitical capital whne the Gen. came there about a month ago and they are in a position now as a party where success or victory in Iraq is not an option so they are trying any action viable to cause havoc in the region to slow or impede more progress in Iraq. BElieve it or not, there are people or a party in this country that would actually rather see their country lose or not succeed than their party be on the losing side of one of the biggest issues in the nation's history.

Thanks for the retard conspiracy theory!

Only, the Turks have been talking about going into Northern Iraq for months now, and they've done it before.

It's part of their "dirty war" against the PKK...

Good luck in finding a scapegoat to excuse the douche you voted for though...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
After 90 years, I think it can wait at least until after the turks remove their army from the border of iraq. Shit's getting hot over there. There's no reason to fan the flames in that direction.

Or maybe the Turks are a bunch of ruthless and brutal dicks that have killed as many Kurds as Saddam has? And they are an Islamicist gov't that masquerades behind a vaguely authoritarian gov't that can be deposed every time the military gets pissed enough..

Maybe they've spent the better part of a century denying both culpability and scale of a premeditated act of cultural obliteration...

And timing? Maybe, but the Turks have been scowling about the autonomous region in Northern Iraq that is pretty much de-facto 'Kurdistan' since the Gulf War in 1991 by this point...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Jim Shetterlini
Where is the outcry against Joe Stalin and all the communist of the former Soviet Union and the mass killings that went on in their own country when the Bolshevik's took over in the early 1900's. There was a shitload more butchered then, than what we are talking about with Turkey and I don't hear old Pelosi taking anything up with everybody's bad ass Putin. But then again, what the hell would that help her politically......ah not much!

Oh yeah, we all know Pelosi just loves those Commies, but hates those religious Muslim members of NATO...

I can't wait until she sponsors legislation to proclaim May 1st "Joe Stalin Day!"

:rolleyes:

[FORD]

I'm not saying that the Armenian genocide wasn't tragic.

I'm just saying, that after officially ignoring it for 90 fucking years, WHY make an issue of it now, when Turkey is right next door to Iraq?

Are they TRYING to provoke Turkey into a war with the Kurds?

This timing sucks. And even more so when Chimpy is now actually using the phrase "World War III" in his propaganda about Iran.

Is this the Likud Zionfascist goal to enflame the whole goddamned Middle East all at once?

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
You're right. Fuck it! Forget the Holocaust while we're at it! we wouldn't want to offend the fucking Germans or piss them off...

:rolleyes:

Way to not answer the question, douche. :fucku:

While you're at it, I'll ask another one you won't answer: does anybody think the congress gives a fuck about Armenia's history?

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Blackflag
does anybody think the congress gives a fuck about Armenia's history?

only about the armenians with deep pockets.


I could see us using this as a bargaining chip with the turks:

"chill the fuck out or we'll pass this thing"

but I don't see pelosi having that much depth of strategic thinking.

It's just poor timing. Period. If Turkey invades Iraq, we are FUCKED. NATO is FUCKED. And it probably will happen. They're already shelling into Iraq now.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by FORD
I'm not saying that the Armenian genocide wasn't tragic.


No. A boat capsizing is tragic. Proactive starvation and ethnic cleansing is murder.


I'm just saying, that after officially ignoring it for 90 fucking years, WHY make an issue of it now, when Turkey is right next door to Iraq?

Americans have actually been at the forefront of criticizing Turkey's actions against their minorities. And mostly because Turkey was a NATO Allie, but one that has always had a very ruthless agenda.

And when hasn't Turkey been just north of Iraq?


Are they TRYING to provoke Turkey into a war with the Kurds?

Provoke a War? Ford, read your history, the Turks have been at war with their minority Kurds since at least the 1970s. Again, the US/Europeans looked the other way because the PKK had some Marxist inclinations, giving a free hand to what was suppose to be an enlightened European nation to use dirty war counterinsurgency tactics...

And they've gone into Northern Iraq before, the whole "build up" of tanks on the border is just shit sabre-rattling because of the talk of allowing Kurdistan to become officially what it is now - autonomous, which scares the shit out of the Turks. I doubt even the Iraq-Kurdish authorities have a big problem with allowing Turkish special forces units the ability of conducting raids. It's the Turks that are being provocative here. If they would come to a political accord with their minorities, then this wouldn't be a problem...


This timing sucks. And even more so when Chimpy is now actually using the phrase "World War III" in his propaganda about Iran.

Is this the Likud Zionfascist goal to enflame the whole goddamned Middle East all at once?

The timing always sucks. But then, perhaps world wide political pressure on the Turks for past atrocities will let them know the world is watching.

And what interest does Israel have in a War in northern Iraq? In fact, they're on good terms with both the Kurds and the Turks. It's not always some big Jewish conspiracy, Ford...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Way to not answer the question, douche. :fucku:

I did answer the question, feltchy mcdumbfuck. You just didn't like the answer, Neville...


While you're at it, I'll ask another one you won't answer:

Oh, okay BOF2. You should talk!


does anybody think the congress gives a fuck about Armenia's history?

"Congress?" That big monolithic, amorphous organization of unfeeling bastards?

I think individuals in congress do in fact care. Some may even be of Armenian decent. A lot of this has arisen from a recent documentary on the genocide featured on PBS. A documentary where the producer feared being hunted by Turkish intelligence. Where he was stalked by the enlightened Turkish diplomats of the great, modern democratic state of Turkey that consistently went to his lectures and denounced him and denied the whole thing happened!

The fact is that the Turkish gov't is going to do what it is going to do, Armenian Genocide proclamations or no.

They're pissed about the potential of Kurdistan in Northern Iraq! Nothing else.

[Jim Shetterlini]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Thanks for the retard conspiracy theory!

Only, the Turks have been talking about going into Northern Iraq for months now, and they've done it before.

It's part of their "dirty war" against the PKK...

Good luck in finding a scapegoat to excuse the douche you voted for though...

Retard? that is politically incorrect to use that word.....you on the left should know better than anybody not to say that.....Besides it is not a conspiracy it's tha facts bro! Scapegoat, I don't need no fucking scapegoat!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Jim Shetterlini
Retard? that is politically incorrect to use that word.....

Sorry, I meant mentally challenged fucktard...

Do you feel better now?


you on the left should know better than anybody not to say that.....Besides it is not a conspiracy it's tha facts bro! Scapegoat, I don't need no fucking scapegoat!

What's the "facts?" Your BLANKET statements are just so absurd, you'll have to pick a "fact" and elaborate...

[Jim Shetterlini]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:rolleyes:

Another freeper.

lucky us.

:gulp:

What is a freeper? Seriously! If it is about donating to the site, I plan to give some at the end of the month, just don't know how much, because I got 2 VH shows to go to... Even though I do not agree with ya politically, I love the Roth Army and want to support so....

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Jim Shetterlini
What is a freeper? Seriously! If it is about donating to the site, I plan to give some at the end of the month, just don't know how much, because I got 2 VH shows to go to... Even though I do not agree with ya politically, I love the Roth Army and want to support so....

Freeper=Free Republic consumer...

[Jim Shetterlini]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Sorry, I meant mentally challenged fucktard...

Do you feel better now?



What's the "facts?" Your statements are just so absurd, you'll have to pick a "fact" and elaborate...

Dude, got to get to work but I will leave you with a question you can answer at your lesiure? Name any leader of the democratic party that has been in support of success in Iraq (besides Joe Leibermann) since 2004 and if the end was result was (is going to be) to be success would eat polital crow and admit it? HEy I was just havin a little fun with the "retard" thing, I could really care less...Have a good one and I will catch back up with ya later...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Jim Shetterlini
Dude, got to get to work but I will leave you with a question you can answer at your lesiure? Name any leader of the democratic party that has been in support of success in Iraq (besides Joe Leibermann) since 2004

LOL Define "In support of success."


and if the end was result was (is going to be) to be success would eat polital crow and admit it?

Again, define "success." What is "winning?" We've already "won" twice now, with the downfall of Saddam and now al Qaeda is "defeated."


HEy I was just havin a little fun with the "retard" thing, I could really care less...Have a good one and I will catch back up with ya later...

Fine fine...

But get back to me what you think a "successful" Iraq will be. In fact, Bush has slowly implemented the ideas of many Democrats, including the promotion of (better commanders with a clue) like Gen. Petraeus, after never relieving failing generals until after is was too late.

And why would anybody trust the Bush Admin after the monumental fuckups since 2002?

[knuckleboner]

personally, i think the resolution came about because some armenian group met with the sponsor and asked him to do it. and they played off his holocaust surviving and got him to agree.


nobody's saying genocide, or mass murder, is ok.

and, while it would be nice in utopia to bring up and condemn all of the past bad actions that ever happened in the world, here in reality, things are often a little more complex.


would it be wise for the U.S. to condemn edward I's brutal treatment of the irish on the eve of a UK/ IRA truce?


there are other ways to put pressue on today's turks, rather than condemning things that happened before any of the turks today were ever born.

[DLR'sCock]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
You're right. Fuck it! Forget the Holocaust while we're at it! we wouldn't want to offend the fucking Germans or piss them off...

:rolleyes:

Should we officially charge the United States and the British, French, Spanish, and Russian colonies all commited genocide against the Native Americans of North and South America? I say, why not? Sure.



Everyone has to own up in the pot.


I remember reading an article a few years back that many scientists believe that the actual numbers of native americans during pre-discovery Americas were between 65 - 150 million and not the 8 or 9 million as originally counted.


Humans, boy are they a mess.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
personally, i think the resolution came about because some armenian group met with the sponsor and asked him to do it. and they played off his holocaust surviving and got him to agree.


nobody's saying genocide, or mass murder, is ok.

and, while it would be nice in utopia to bring up and condemn all of the past bad actions that ever happened in the world, here in reality, things are often a little more complex.


would it be wise for the U.S. to condemn edward I's brutal treatment of the irish on the eve of a UK/ IRA truce?


there are other ways to put pressue on today's turks, rather than condemning things that happened before any of the turks today were ever born.

All the measure does is call a spade a spade.

The Turks cannot stand to be called out on "genocide."

And there is no "truce" here. The Turks are after the Kurds and simply cannot stand the notion of an autonomous Kurdish region...

The Turks are going into Iraq no matter what...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
Should we officially charge the United States and the British, French, Spanish, and Russian colonies all commited genocide against the Native Americans of North and South America? I say, why not? Sure.

Um, yeah well, do you realize if you uttered the equivalent in Turkey, you'd very likely get your ass kicked?

And we do speak in terms of "genocide" regarding Euro-American treatment of natives during the Age of Imperialism...


Everyone has to own up in the pot.


I agree. The point is that the Turks refuse too...

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
All the measure does is call a spade a spade.

The Turks cannot stand to be called out on "genocide."

And there is no "truce" here. The Turks are after the Kurds and simply cannot stand the notion of an autonomous Kurdish region...

The Turks are going into Iraq no matter what...

yeah, i know there's no turkish truce. i was just trying to throw out there that there might be times when we wouldn't want to officially condemn long ago actions (like in my hypothetical UK case).


and yes, i know it's simply calling the turkish action for what it was. but i'm just not so sure why it's so important for the U.S. to condemn, now, at this point in time.

i mean, we simply could have a resolution expressing opposition to genocide in all its forms.


to me, this turkish resolution simply seems to be interest group PR politics. which, in the abstract can be harmless, if somewhat of a small bit of a waste of time.

and, i could even see it if the turks were lauding the turkish "heros" of 1919 in a rememberance ceremony this year. sure, in that case i don't mind us calling them out and saying, "nope, evil does not equal heros."

but in this kind of case, i'm not sure why we would risk relations with a country that we would like to have semi-good relations with, in order to point out that their grandfathers and great-grandfathers did some very evil things almost a century ago.

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I did answer the question, feltchy mcdumbfuck. You just didn't like the answer, Neville...



Let's try again..."And this effort remedies that...how?"

Maybe you should stick to your end of the pool and just call people "retard" and "fucktard."

[LoungeMachine]

so much for detente

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag


Maybe you should stick to your end of the pool and just call people "retard" and "fucktard."

But we pee in this end of the pool....

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
But we pee in this end of the pool....

Clearly, there's something in the water...fucktard. :fucku2:

[Jim Shetterlini]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Let's try again..."And this effort remedies that...how?"

Maybe you should stick to your end of the pool and just call people "retard" and "fucktard."

I still don't get fucktard......does that mean challenged sexually, or you just fuck slow? IDK

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Jim Shetterlini
I still don't get fucktard......does that mean challenged sexually, or you just fuck slow? IDK

Why are you asking me? He's the fucktard that made the word up. Retard.

[Jim Shetterlini]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Why are you asking me? He's the fucktard that made the word up. Retard.

my bad, the joke was directed to the creator not the receiver . thought maybe we could have a laugh at his expense. Should have quoted him directly, didn't mean to confuse ya.

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Jim Shetterlini
my bad, the joke was directed to the creator not the receiver . thought maybe we could have a laugh at his expense. Should have quoted him directly, didn't mean to confuse ya.

I know - I was just looking for an opportunity to call somebody fucktard. :dork:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Jim Shetterlini
I still don't get fucktard......does that mean challenged sexually, or you just fuck slow? IDK

Perhaps you'd be more comfortable with the term Rushtard, considering you generally post his talking points here and pass them off as your own.

:gulp:

[Jim Shetterlini]

So Rush is slow or I am challenged conservatively. I pass them off as my own? Where here did I ever say that I own all the facts I have presented and I am the first to bring them to light . But there Keith Obermann or Mr. (Hard BAll) Matthews are you seriously saying you were the first to say what you have said and these talking points of yours haven't been regurgitated thousands of times in the liberal bias media? C'mom Lounge we both know we are stating what we believe and what we have read or already heard. Listen, I appreciate the fact that I can have a debate with you about our political differences. Fact is long before I signed on here I was pretty impressed with your knowledge and interest of your side. HEll that is what is so great about this country, we can still do this and not worry about our future. Anyway , VH with Dave in 5 days so it is almost fuckin party time Bro.. Oh and it's not just Rush it's Hannity, Laura Ingraham and Glen BEck I got a lot of info from to help me formulate my talking points.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Jim Shetterlini
So Rush is slow or I am challenged conservatively. I pass them off as my own?

Where here did I ever say that I own all the facts I have presented and I am the first to bring them to light .

But there Keith Obermann or Mr. (Hard BAll) Matthews are you seriously saying you were the first to say what you have said and these talking points of yours haven't been regurgitated thousands of times in the liberal bias media?

C'mom Lounge we both know we are stating what we believe and what we have read or already heard. Listen, I appreciate the fact that I can have a debate with you about our political differences. Fact is long before I signed on here I was pretty impressed with your knowledge and interest of your side.

HEll that is what is so great about this country, we can still do this and not worry about our future.

Anyway , VH with Dave in 5 days so it is almost fuckin party time Bro.. Oh and it's not just Rush it's Hannity, Laura Ingraham and Glen BEck I got a lot of info from to help me formulate my talking points.


See how much easier that is to read?

5 or 6 extra keystrokes is all we ask.....

And you didn't need to mention the fact you're parroting Hannity as well. It was obvious.

And if you're getting your "info" from Beck and Ingraham, you've already lost the battle.

Get your entertainment from those mooks, but get your FACTS elsewhere........please.

:gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Let's try again..."And this effort remedies that...how?"

Remedies what how? That's not the point, dummy. Why discuss anything then dipshit? Just log off and reinsert your head up your ass. Oh wait, it is already.

We're not supposed to talk about things or acknowledge history now, so liars can rewrite, unless we can get a time machine and change the past? You and BOF are, quite the pair...

That's it! From this day forward, no one will ever discuss history so douche bags like Blackflag can remain perpetually ignorant...

That way, one will know how full of shit an hypiocr4itical Turkey is as the demand that nations exceed to their wishes and interests...



Maybe you should stick to your end of the pool and just call people "retard" and "fucktard."


Thanks for the tip! maybe you can download some gayer smilies you look like an immature douche every time you post, you puerile cunt...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Why are you asking me? He's the fucktard that made the word up. Retard.

I didn't make the word up. It was around long before me, I suspect to describe individuals with your disposition...

[Jim Shetterlini]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
See how much easier that is to read?

5 or 6 extra keystrokes is all we ask.....

And you didn't need to mention the fact you're parroting Hannity as well. It was obvious.

And if you're getting your "info" from Beck and Ingraham, you've already lost the battle.

Get your entertainment from those mooks, but get your FACTS elsewhere........please.

:gulp:

Well thanks for the "See Pug Run" sentence structure advice?

S h o u l d I d o u b l e s p a c e f o r y a a s w e l l , s o i t m a k e s i t e v e n e a s i e r t o k e e p u p ?


Mainly if you would listen to any of thier programs they usually quote

facts and then expound on them with dialogue and sometimes satire.

They also back up thier staements with fact based discussion and

depth. Now, if you quote rags as you often do, they usually approach

a story in such a way that articulates thier slant or bias. The big

difference here is those rags or media outlets still present themselves

as sources of news and cloak themselves in journalistic fronts when it

is pretty clear to most americans that it is just opinion spun stories. So

in conclusion, the aformentioned talk shows are honest about what

they do and present their side and everyone knows it. But the

mainstream media has to hide and lie so they can biasly present and

slant the news to shape public opinon.

I p u r p o s e l y d o u b l e s p a c e d m y l i n e s f o r y o u t o m a k e i t e a s i e r f o r y o u t o r e a d.

[LoungeMachine]

Okay, I see now we have nothing more than a garden-variety troll who also thinks he's funny.

See how much you enjoy having your posts ignored.

Have fun talking to yourself.

:gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Blackflag
I know - I was just looking for an opportunity to call somebody fucktard. :dork:

It's fun! Say IT SAY ITTTTT!@!
http://us.ent1.yimg.com/images.launch.yahoo.com/000/010/463/10463446.jpg
FUCK-TARD!!!!!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Jim Shetterlini
Well thanks for the "See Pug Run" sentence structure advice?

S h o u l d I d o u b l e s p a c e f o r y a a s w e l l , s o i t m a k e s i t e v e n e a s i e r t o k e e p u p ?


Mainly if you would listen to any of thier programs they usually quote

facts and then expound on them with dialogue and sometimes satire.

They also back up thier staements with fact based discussion and

depth. Now, if you quote rags as you often do, they usually approach

a story in such a way that articulates thier slant or bias. The big

difference here is those rags or media outlets still present themselves

as sources of news and cloak themselves in journalistic fronts when it

is pretty clear to most americans that it is just opinion spun stories. So

in conclusion, the aformentioned talk shows are honest about what

they do and present their side and everyone knows it. But the

mainstream media has to hide and lie so they can biasly present and

slant the news to shape public opinon.

I p u r p o s e l y d o u b l e s p a c e d m y l i n e s f o r y o u t o m a k e i t e a s i e r f o r y o u t o r e a d.

http://blarneyfellow.files.wordpress.com/2006/11/20060120-steam_dildo.jpg

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by FORD
Might be worse than a freeper. Notice the "sign up" date of August 2007??

I think this guy might be a Herpie & Assrimmie troll who controlled himself enough to avoid the ax when it dropped on the rest of his buddies.

He definitely listens to Limpdick. I can tell that by the specific reich wing phrases he uses (i.e "Dingy Harry")

He's also not from where he says he is...

Another troll sign...

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Remedies what how? That's not the point, dummy. Why discuss anything then dipshit? Just log off and reinsert your head up your ass. Oh wait, it is already.


That's a really insightful response. Still didn't answer my question.

Whenever you think to yourself, "I answer questions and make significant contributions to the discourse," remind yourself that your best answer is "put your head up your ass." You're worthless and you shouldn't breed. :rolleyes:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Blackflag
That's a really insightful response. Still didn't answer my question.

Well, I'll spell it out for you then. Your question is irrelevant and the wrong one to ask..

I could be used to basically avoid unpleasant histories all together. In this case, the condemnation is not totally 90-years too late, because Americans (mainly) did denounce and report this atrocity. By acknowledging it now, I think it robs the Turkish gov't of any moral justifications to their ruthless policies of intimidation and dominance...

Maybe we should ignore Dharfor so we don't piss off the Sudanese allies in China...


Whenever you think to yourself, "I answer questions and make significant contributions to the discourse," remind yourself that your best answer is "put your head up your ass." You're worthless and you shouldn't breed. :rolleyes:

I'm glad you've arrived at this self-reflection.:)

[Jim Shetterlini]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Okay, I see now we have nothing more than a garden-variety troll who also thinks he's funny.

See how much you enjoy having your posts ignored.

Have fun talking to yourself.

:gulp:

Im sorry please come back out and play. Don't take your ball and go home after you call me names (Rushtard, Fucktard, Skippy) and put down whom I listen too. I mean, geez Wally, I give you compliments in the previous post and tell you how I appreciate the conv. and then you come back and bash. I had to do what... I had to do.

[Jim Shetterlini]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
http://blarneyfellow.files.wordpress.com/2006/11/20060120-steam_dildo.jpg

Are these for Fucktards? Let me know?

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Well, I'll spell it out for you then, your questions is irrelevant and the wrong one to ask..

Still can't come up with an answer?

It's hardly irrelevant to ask what a piece of legislation is intended to actually accomplish. Don't you think? (At all?)

:fucku:

[Nickdfresh]

To Jim Shetterlini

No. It's (SINGULAR) a "steam-powered dildo." For some reason I find it analogous to your existence as evidence by your posts in this forum.

I don't know why... :confused:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Still can't come up with an answer?

Nope. I responded and answered. You just don't like the answer. And that's tough, pooky...


It's hardly irrelevant to ask what a piece of legislation is intended to actually accomplish. Don't you think? (At all?)

:fucku:

Well tell us! What do you think it will "actually accomplish?"

What will be the consequences?

And if you look real closely brainiac, I actually outlined one of central tenets - that morality and historical consciousness and context should be a part of US foreign policy. Not just flagrant self-interest justified by the trappings of irrational fear. Look where that's got us...

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Nope. I responded and answered. You just don't like the answer. And that's tough, pooky...

. . .

Well tell us! What do you think it will "actually accomplish?"



Well, which is it? You answered, or you don't think the question deserves an answer? You can't have it both ways.

So instead of you using your flaccid brain, now you want me to answer the question for you? You're pathetic and you're wasting everybody's oxygen.

You're one of those dudes who always has to get the last word, even if it means you look like an ignorant ass, aren't you? Feel free. :cry2:
Go tell Lounge how I'm being mean to you. :cry:

[Blackflag]

I can't believe I'm conversing with somebody who uses the word "pooky." How stupid does that make me? :(

[Nickdfresh]

The Armenian Genocide (Armenian: Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ("Hayoc' c'ejaspanut'iwn"), Turkish: Ermeni Soykırımı) — also known as the Armenian Holocaust, Great Calamity (Մեծ Եղեռն "Mec Ejer'n" ) or the Armenian Massacres — was the forcible deportation and massacre[1] of hundreds of thousands to over 1.5 million Armenians during the government of the Young Turks from 1915 to 1917 in the Ottoman Empire.[2]

It is widely acknowledged to have been one of the first modern, systematic genocides,[3][4] as many Western sources point to the sheer scale of the death toll as evidence for a systematic, organized plan to eliminate the Armenians.[5] The event is also said to be the second-most studied case of genocide after the Nazi Holocaust.[6] To date twenty-two countries have officially recognized it as genocide. The government of the Republic of Turkey rejects the characterization of the events as genocide.[7]
....

While there is no consensus as to how many Armenians lost their lives during the Armenian Genocide, there is general agreement among western scholars that over 500,000 Armenians perished between 1914 and 1918. Estimates vary between 300,000 (per the modern Turkish state) to 1,500,000 (per modern Armenia,[67] Argentina,[68] and other states). Encyclopædia Britannica references the research of Arnold J. Toynbee, an intelligence officer of the British Foreign Office, who estimated that 600,000 Armenians "died or were massacred during deportation" in the years 1915-1916 alone.[6]
...


The Armenian Genocide is often speculated to have influenced Adolf Hitler, owing to his various references to the Ottoman killings of Armenians.[70] The extent of Hitler's knowledge of the Armenian Genocide is unclear, though he did refer to their destruction several times.[71] The most notable quote attributed to Hitler on the Armenians is excerpted from an August 1939 military conference, prior to the invasion of Poland:

"I have issued the command — and I’ll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad — that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formation in readiness — for the present only in the East — with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space [Lebensraum] which we need. Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?[72]'

There are numerous accounts of Hitler speaking in regards to the Armenians, with at least two similar versions of the 1939 speech coming from the German High Command archives. In 1931, for example, two years prior to his ascension as Germany's leader, Hitler noted in an interview that "everywhere people are awaiting a new world order. We intend to introduce a great resettlement policy… remember the extermination of the Armenians."[73] In 1943, during the height of his attempts to exterminate the Jews in Europe, Hitler demanded of Hungarian regent Admiral Miklós Horthy that he deport the Jews from the country: "Nations which did not get rid of the Jews perished. One of the most famous examples of this was the downfall of a people who were so proud — the Persians, who now lead a pitiful existence as Armenians."[74]
...

The Republic of Turkey's formal stance is that the deaths of Armenians during the "relocation" or "deportation" cannot aptly be deemed "genocide." This point has been contended with a plethora of diverging justifications: that the killings were not deliberate or were not governmentally orchestrated, that the killings were justified because Armenians posed a Russian-sympathizing threat as a cultural group, that Armenians merely starved, or any of various characterizations recalling marauding "Armenian gangs."[101][102][103] Some suggestions seek to invalidate the genocide on semantic or anachronistic grounds (the word "genocide" was not coined until 1943).

Turkish World War I casualty figures are often cited to mitigate the effect of the number of Armenian dead.[104] The website of the Grand National Assembly of Turkey currently features a section entitled Archive Documents about the Atrocities and Genocide Inflicted upon Turks by Armenians, suggesting that the Turks of Anatolia experienced a genocide at the hands of the Armenians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

[Blackflag]

Well, if you can't come up with your own thoughts, then just quote somebody else. It's better than being completely brain dead, I suppose...:sleepy:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Blackflag
I can't believe I'm conversing with somebody who uses the word "pooky." How stupid does that make me? :(

Not nearly as stupid as your posts...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Well, if you can't come up with your own thoughts, then just quote somebody else. It's better than being completely brain dead, I suppose...:sleepy:

Translation: History, words, ideas - make Blackflag head hurt! Me go read Brittany Spears thread now!

[Blackflag]

:cry2:

[Nickdfresh]

There there. Now now. It'll be okay...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Well, which is it? You answered, or you don't think the question deserves an answer? You can't have it both ways.

But I did. I answered by letting you know that your question is retarded kind asked by teen girls struggling with an 11th grade American Gov't class...

"Booh fucking whoooo! WUTs the point of this anyways!"

Secondly, when have you ever answered a question I've asked? you pussy and hypowit.


So instead of you using your flaccid brain, now you want me to answer the question for you? You're pathetic and you're wasting everybody's oxygen.

Yup. Way to take the pussy way out, "champ." :)


You're one of those dudes who always has to get the last word, even if it means you look like an ignorant ass, aren't you? Feel free. :cry2:

Well, how can I answer your questions if I don't "get the last word in?" You going to tell me when and when not to post now? Yeah, good one!

Can't have it both ways, pumpkin.



Go tell Lounge how I'm being mean to you. :cry:

Tell him yourself.

And you were mean to me? LMFAO! Oh God, no! You are so fierce and intimidating in demanding answers to question you yourself have none too.

UNCLE! Stop being mean to me on the internet! :D

[Warham]

Nancy Pelosi will go down as the worst Speaker of the House in history, and that's saying something!

[FORD]

She's certainly a disappointment, but nowhere near as bad as Hastert.

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by FORD
I'm just saying, that after officially ignoring it for 90 fucking years, WHY make an issue of it now, when Turkey is right next door to Iraq?


I actually agree with FORD on this. In my opinion this is nothing more than a pointless distraction from more important issues.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
I actually agree with FORD on this. In my opinion this is nothing more than a pointless distraction from more important issues.

Is that as oppsed to distractions that have a point?

Until the DLC snatch their balls back form the west wing, distractions, both with point and without, are all we have....

:gulp:

Until then, we drink!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by WAR
Nancy Pelosi will go down as the worst Speaker of the House in history, and that's saying something!

oh, bullshit.

speaking of distractions without a point....

:rolleyes:

[Warham]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
oh, bullshit.

speaking of distractions without a point....

:rolleyes:

Yes, oh drunken one? :D

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag



Go tell Lounge how I'm being mean to you. :cry:

I don't think you're being mean....

I just think you're losing the argument....

But it's no longer about the argument, is it?

It's now about getting in the last body blow before he moves on to bigger fish...

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by WAR
Yes, oh drunken one? :D

:D

I'm not as think as you're drunk I am...

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I don't think you're being mean....

I just think you're losing the argument....

But it's no longer about the argument, is it?

It's now about getting in the last body blow before he moves on to bigger fish...

:gulp:

The collective group in here couldn't argue its way out of a wet paper bag. This forum is about beating your chest, calling people fucktard, and resorting to false dimunitions like "pumpkin."

I mean, it's flat out asinine to suggest that examining the purpose of legislation is "irrelevant."

But on the other hand, he called me a teenager and pooky. So in the low mentality world of internet chat rooms, he's a genius. Good thing we don't live in the internet. :D

[Warham]

You didn't just figure that out, did you?

Nobody should take this forum seriously. Did you ever see those skits on SNL where da Bears fans sat around the table talking out of their asses about sports. Think of the members of this forum as those guys, except it's about politics. ;)

[LoungeMachine]

Least of all us regulars....

:gulp:

It's a mild distraction for us self-medicating, multi-tasking wannabe comedians....

Now, what were we talking about, I wasnt listening...

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by WAR
You didn't just figure that out, did you?

Nobody should take this forum seriously. Did you ever see those skits on SNL where da Bears fans sat around the table talking out of their asses about sports. Think of the members of this forum as those guys, except it's about politics. ;)

I just like this forum because I can tell people to fuck off without getting banned. :fucku2:

So which one is George Wendt?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
The collective group in here couldn't argue its way out of a wet paper bag.

Meh...

There's some true intellects in here, with their own corners of expertise...

Sesh is brilliant in debunking religions...

Sharkey is our resident legal expert, although he hasnt passed the bar exam in 12 tries...

No one parrots Rush and Hanity better than WAR...

Nick is a military hardware/history expert...

FORD is all-knowing in everything BCE related...


We have our moments in here, but if you're expecting am Algonquin Roundtable, forget it...

We're more The McLaughlin Group on a Nitrous Oxide binge...

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine

We're more The McLaughlin Group on a Nitrous Oxide binge...

:gulp:

That's a fair description. That show is about 5 ignorant douchebags all trying to talk louder than the next...and I would like to tell them all to fuck off, too.

Back here in reality, I'm going to see "30 days of night" tonight, and it's just going to fucking rule. I hope. :hagar2:

[Warham]

Originally posted by Blackflag
I just like this forum because I can tell people to fuck off without getting banned. :fucku2:

So which one is George Wendt?

Hmmm,

Let me think on that one.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by WAR
Nancy Pelosi will go down as the worst Speaker of the House in history, and that's saying something!

Thanks for the prediction, Nostradamus...

How'd Tom DeLay fare?

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Thanks for the prediction, Nostradamus...

How'd Tom DeLay fare?

He was alright.

Better than Jim Wright, that's for sure.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by WAR
He was alright.

Better than Jim Wright, that's for sure.

oh.

my.

god.


Can't even bring yourself to admit that DeLay was a failure, a felon, and total fucking douche....

:rolleyes:

[Warham]

He wasn't a failure, or I felon, if I remember correctly.

The douche part, I won't comment on.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Blackflag
The collective group in here couldn't argue its way out of a wet paper bag. This forum is about beating your chest, calling people fucktard, and resorting to false dimunitions like "pumpkin."

I mean, it's flat out asinine to suggest that examining the purpose of legislation is "irrelevant."

But on the other hand, he called me a teenager and pooky. So in the low mentality world of internet chat rooms, he's a genius. Good thing we don't live in the internet. :D

http://demo.itent.hu/ujdieta/portal/images/2005-07/baby_cry.jpg

[ODShowtime]

The most notable quote attributed to Hitler on the Armenians is excerpted from an August 1939 military conference, prior to the invasion of Poland:

"I have issued the command — and I’ll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad — that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formation in readiness — for the present only in the East — with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space [Lebensraum] which we need. Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?[72]'

ah that's one of the more terrifying quotes I've read recently.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by WAR
He was alright.

Better than Jim Wright, that's for sure.

Yeah, DeLay was alright, from the Democrats point of view...

Wright? Who?

Was he around during the 1950s or some shit?

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yeah, DeLay was alright, from the Democrats point of view...

Wright? Who?

Was he around during the 1950s or some shit?

No, he was the speaker of the house between 1987-1989, just about the time you graduated from high school. Gingrich was the one who led the charge to get him to resign after ethics charges were brought up against him.

I thought you were the history expert around here.

[FORD]

Wright became the target of an inquiry by the House Ethics Committee. Their report in early 1989 implied that he had used bulk purchases of his vanity book, Reflections of a Public Man, to earn speaking fees in excess of the allowed maximum, and that his wife, Betty, was given a job and perks to avoid the limit on gifts. Faced with an increasing loss of effectiveness, he resigned as Speaker on May 31, 1989, effective upon the selection of a successor. On June 6, the Democratic caucus brought his Speakership to an end by selecting his replacement, Tom Foley, and on June 30 he resigned from his seat in Congress.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Wright

Ok, so that's kinda shady, but absolutely nothing compared to what DeLay did. Or his good buddy Jack 'Off. And Hastert is obviously up to his bulgy eyeballs in something, or he wouldn't have resigned TWICE already.

And as far as buying up your own books to make the sales look better, that's exactly what Rupert Murdoch and Richard Mellonhead Scaife do to get Anndrew Coulter and Sean Insanity on the "best seller" list.

[Nitro Express]

Originally posted by Blackflag
The collective group in here couldn't argue its way out of a wet paper bag. This forum is about beating your chest, calling people fucktard, and resorting to false dimunitions like "pumpkin."

I mean, it's flat out asinine to suggest that examining the purpose of legislation is "irrelevant."

But on the other hand, he called me a teenager and pooky. So in the low mentality world of internet chat rooms, he's a genius. Good thing we don't live in the internet. :D

Yeah, but this forum is composed of avid Van Halen fans which I have found to be the most scrambled and dissfunctional people on the planent. :D

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by WAR
No, he was the speaker of the house between 1987-1989, just about the time you graduated from high school. Gingrich was the one who led the charge to get him to resign after ethics charges were brought up against him.

I thought you were the history expert around here.

Dude, I was perpetually drunk and stoned during those years, and confused by poon when I was sober...

[Rikk]

The thing is, this has been building for a while. This didn't come out of nowhere and this wasn't intentional. Recognition of this genocide has been building for the last couple of decades. It started with most other civilized countries officially recognizing it as such, and then it continued to various Govenors.

Bottom line is, nobody's asking for restitution. They just want the American government to personally recognize the murder of 1.5 million Armenians in a calculated, organized genocide that Hitler himself used as a research point for his own later genocide.

The documents and photos (and now discovered film) are there. There are court transcripts a mile long from the early 1920's in Turkey itself in which they put the previous government on trial for their atrocities (Turkey later tried to brush this off after the genocide became a blemish in their history). There are various newspaper articles and books from the period (including New York Times reporters) covering the genocide as it happened.

And this is a personal issue to me. I lost my great-grandmother, great uncle...my grandfather had his school friends shot in front of his eyes. We lost maybe 10 members of our family and barely got out.

And century ago or not...my grandmother is still alive and still weeps thinking about her lost mother.

I don't care about the political reasons. There is no small reason to finally recognize a genocide. It is black and white as far as I'm concerned, no matter the intentions of those bringing this to the table now. To appease the Turkish government, for whatever reason, is plainly wrong. The world would not shrug their shoulders and look at intentions if the Holocaust were suddenly not being given its own historical respect.

You can't buy silence here. It's more wrong than almost anything except the murders themselves.

1.5 million.

[Lqskdiver]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Don't you think you're being a little harsh, Ford?

How would Bush be impeached when they don't have the votes, and then why bother to remove him form office just in time for his term to expire?

And should nations like the Turks be allowed to pretty much just deny the atrocities in their past? If they had owned up to it by now instead of trying to systematically bully and silence their critics, then no one would even bother with this...

For FORD it's always been about impeachment. Hell, it could be January 28, 2009 and if by some miraculous reason Bush is impeached...FORD would STILL claim this as a victory.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Rikk
The thing is, this has been building for a while. This didn't come out of nowhere and this wasn't intentional. Recognition of this genocide has been building for the last couple of decades. It started with most other civilized countries officially recognizing it as such, and then it continued to various Govenors.

Bottom line is, nobody's asking for restitution. They just want the American government to personally recognize the murder of 1.5 million Armenians in a calculated, organized genocide that Hitler himself used as a research point for his own later genocide.

The documents and photos (and now discovered film) are there. There are court transcripts a mile long from the early 1920's in Turkey itself in which they put the previous government on trial for their atrocities (Turkey later tried to brush this off after the genocide became a blemish in their history). There are various newspaper articles and books from the period (including New York Times reporters) covering the genocide as it happened.

And this is a personal issue to me. I lost my great-grandmother, great uncle...my grandfather had his school friends shot in front of his eyes. We lost maybe 10 members of our family and barely got out.

And century ago or not...my grandmother is still alive and still weeps thinking about her lost mother.

I don't care about the political reasons. There is no small reason to finally recognize a genocide. It is black and white as far as I'm concerned, no matter the intentions of those bringing this to the table now. To appease the Turkish government, for whatever reason, is plainly wrong. The world would not shrug their shoulders and look at intentions if the Holocaust were suddenly not being given its own historical respect.

You can't buy silence here. It's more wrong than almost anything except the murders themselves.

1.5 million.

Great post RIKK, good to see you back...

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Great post RIKK, good to see you back...

Thank you, my friend.

[Rikk]

Sorry, double-post.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Rikk
Sorry, double-post.

One of 'em could have been for me.

:gulp:

welcome back

[Rikk]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
One of 'em could have been for me.

:gulp:

welcome back

A drink to you, bro. For sure.

:guzzle:

How the hell have things been in this amazing soap opera?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Rikk
A drink to you, bro. For sure.

:guzzle:

How the hell have things been in this amazing soap opera?

LMAO

You'll need to be a tad more specific, man. :D

We gots all kinds of operas going on around here. ;)

You got some catchin' up to do.

Regardless, great to see you....

:gulp: