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binnie
11-23-2007, 11:42 AM
http://www.slate.com/id/2178392/

Is That a Microphone in My Pocket?
When rock show banter goes wrong.
By James Parker
Posted Friday, Nov. 23, 2007, at 8:30 AM ET
We who live in the end times of rock 'n' roll, blighted as we are by melancholy and déjà vu, are nonetheless afforded certain privileges. A few weeks ago, for example, I was favored with the sight of David Lee Roth, back on the mic in the revamped Van Halen, engulfing 10,000 Bostonians in the magnitude of his cornball charisma. No longer diluted by acrobatics (he is 53), Diamond Dave's performance now runs on pure personality. He preens; he leers; he does absurd, venomous little high kicks. "Is that a microphone in my pocket," he enquired of the groupie-stacked front row, "or am I just pleased to see you?" And then, in the middle of "Dance the Night Away," something interesting happened. A keen-eyed roadie, having spotted a puddle of fluid near Eddie's effects pedals (did Dave spill his Red Bull?) began tossing black hand towels onto the stage, presumably so someone in the band could mop it up. Dave took a step to the side and directed at the poor man a look of truly atrocious vituperation: "What the fuck are you doing?" he snarled, away from the mic. "Fuck off." Then he turned back to the crowd and smiled like the sun.

A small incident, but it got me thinking. Might there be a secret history to be gleaned from the informal or off-message utterances of lead singers? The snake-strike suddenness with which Dave had, as it were, reversed the polarity of his enormous charm; the crack in the patter; the abuse of an underling; it was easily the most rock 'n' roll moment of the whole night. And the realest, too—in Dave's awful instant of vexation at his roadie was betrayed the strain, after years of disunity and mutual carping, of playing with the Van Halen brothers again and having to look pleased about it. Disaffection, complication: The bantering of rock stars, be it showbiz bluster ("We're Spinal Tap from the U.K.! You must be the USA!") or faux intimacy (Bruce Springsteen telling a story about his car), is all about the concealment of such things.

But there are times when you just can't stop the bones from showing through. All Elvis-heads, for example, remember with sorrow the night of June 21, 1977, when the King, opening a show in Rapid City, S.D., got lost in the spoken word section of "Are You Lonesome Tonight?" A ghastly piece of footage: Elvis is six weeks from death, heavy-faced and desolate in his white sunburst jumpsuit. A choir croons behind him, repeating the song's melodic motif, bearing him aloft on soft pulses of seraphic cheese even as his eyes close and his sweat runs like tears: "You forgot the words, they'd been changed, you fool. ... Honey? Who'm I talkin' to?" Elvis is in deep, deep trouble, dying on his feet. Fumbled jokes, an abortive sense of interior monologue—the colossal solitude of the man seems to thicken the air around him. "And now the stage is bare, and I'm standing there, without any hair. ... Huh, huh. ... Ah, the heck with it." As if from a mile away, the audience titters.

Similarly previewing their own end were the Sex Pistols at San Francisco's Winterland, less than a year later, caterwauling their way through the Stooges' "No Fun" in what turned out to be their last show. Johnny Rotten—hunch, rodent glare—is at the end of different kind of rope. Three years into the kamikaze fiasco of this band, his exhaustion and disgust have hit epic levels. "No fun, my babe, no fun. ... Oh bollocks, why should I carry on?" To his right, the soon-to-be-extinct Sid Vicious is playing his bass like he's thumbing somebody's eye. Clonk! Thwonk! "This is no fun," coughs Rotten. "It is no fun at all. ... No fu-un!" The song, and the band, collapse into history. "A-haha! Ever get the feeling you've been cheated? Good night!"

Willingly or unwillingly, Elvis and the Pistols were showing the void to their fans—a taste of the grave. But what happens when the void is reaching up from the front row? As far as onstage banter goes, nothing sorts the men from the boys like genuine offstage mayhem. Altamont may have been a disaster for Mick Jagger, whose effete pleas for order ("Cool out, my babies!") went unheard, but anyone who's seen the Maysles Bros. documentary Gimme Shelter knows that it was a shining rhetorical hour for Jefferson Airplane's Paul Kantner. As his lead singer falls beneath the blows of vigilante bikers, Kantner loses neither his head nor his sense of humor. "Hey man," he offers into the mic, his voice only slightly constricted by anxiety, "I'd like to mention that the Hells Angels just smashed Marty Balin in the face and knocked him out for a bit. I'd like to thank you for that." The Angels, for all their leather, are not impervious to Kantner's Shakespearean irony. "Is this thing on?" growls a biker brother, seizing a microphone. "You talking to me? I'm gonna talk to you." Could Jagger have piqued them with a similar mordancy at the crucial moment, things might have gone a little differently that night.

Fugazi of Washington, D.C., had riot containment down to a fine art: You might say it was part of their raison d'être. Anyone stage diving or slam dancing at a Fugazi show risked a brisk philosophical re-education—the music would stop, and through the buzz of idling amps, singer Ian MacKaye would make his displeasure plain. "You wanna kick and punch people?" he can be heard asking on Jem Cohen's 1999 documentary Instrument. "Then get the fuck up on the football field!" Co-singer Guy Picciotto becomes interested. "Those two?" he asks, before addressing the culprits in a folksy, reflective manner:

"You know, I saw you two guys earlier at the Good Humor truck, and you were eating your ice cream like little boys. And I thought, 'Those guys aren't so tough! They're eating ice cream! What a bunch of swell guys!' I saw you eating ice cream, pal. Oh, don't you deny it. You were eating an ice cream cone. You were eating an ice cream cone. Oh, you're bad now, you're bad now, but you were eating an ice cream cone, and I saw you."

It says something for the presence of Fugazi, for their commitment to a complete encounter with their audience, that Picciotto was able to improvise such a beat-perfect oratorical flight. What can have remained of the mosh pit goons after this fantastic denunciation? Two smoking pairs of sneakers?

Then again, a good riot is just what some people think they need. In a bootleg recording made at a 1972 concert in Frankfurt, Germany, dark blue troubadour Leonard Cohen can be heard growing suddenly depressed at his own depression. "I have been noted for my quiet songs," he murmurs, "and for my melancholy and solemn atmosphere. But I don't care if this concert turns into a riot. Because, you know, I can't go along with this, ah, pretence any longer." The crowd, devoutly hushed, seems somehow unripe for insurrection. Returning with a sigh to his music, Cohen strikes a morose half-chord on his guitar and is further dejected by some supportive applause and a single whoop of recognition. "You couldn't possibly know what song that is," he says wearily.

Sarge's Little Helper
11-23-2007, 11:42 AM
http://www.slate.com/id/2178392/

Is That a Microphone in My Pocket?
When rock show banter goes wrong.
By James Parker
Posted Friday, Nov. 23, 2007, at 8:30 AM ET
We who live in the end times of rock 'n' roll, blighted as we are by melancholy and déjà vu, are nonetheless afforded certain privileges. A few weeks ago, for example, I was favored with the sight of David Lee Roth, back on the mic in the revamped Van Halen, engulfing 10,000 Bostonians in the magnitude of his cornball charisma. No longer diluted by acrobatics (he is 53), Diamond Dave's performance now runs on pure personality. He preens; he leers; he does absurd, venomous little high kicks. "Is that a microphone in my pocket," he enquired of the groupie-stacked front row, "or am I just pleased to see you?" And then, in the middle of "Dance the Night Away," something interesting happened. A keen-eyed roadie, having spotted a puddle of fluid near Eddie's effects pedals (did Dave spill his Red Bull?) began tossing black hand towels onto the stage, presumably so someone in the band could mop it up. Dave took a step to the side and directed at the poor man a look of truly atrocious vituperation: "What the fuck are you doing?" he snarled, away from the mic. "Fuck off." Then he turned back to the crowd and smiled like the sun.

A small incident, but it got me thinking. Might there be a secret history to be gleaned from the informal or off-message utterances of lead singers? The snake-strike suddenness with which Dave had, as it were, reversed the polarity of his enormous charm; the crack in the patter; the abuse of an underling; it was easily the most rock 'n' roll moment of the whole night. And the realest, too—in Dave's awful instant of vexation at his roadie was betrayed the strain, after years of disunity and mutual carping, of playing with the Van Halen brothers again and having to look pleased about it. Disaffection, complication: The bantering of rock stars, be it showbiz bluster ("We're Spinal Tap from the U.K.! You must be the USA!") or faux intimacy (Bruce Springsteen telling a story about his car), is all about the concealment of such things.

But there are times when you just can't stop the bones from showing through. All Elvis-heads, for example, remember with sorrow the night of June 21, 1977, when the King, opening a show in Rapid City, S.D., got lost in the spoken word section of "Are You Lonesome Tonight?" A ghastly piece of footage: Elvis is six weeks from death, heavy-faced and desolate in his white sunburst jumpsuit. A choir croons behind him, repeating the song's melodic motif, bearing him aloft on soft pulses of seraphic cheese even as his eyes close and his sweat runs like tears: "You forgot the words, they'd been changed, you fool. ... Honey? Who'm I talkin' to?" Elvis is in deep, deep trouble, dying on his feet. Fumbled jokes, an abortive sense of interior monologue—the colossal solitude of the man seems to thicken the air around him. "And now the stage is bare, and I'm standing there, without any hair. ... Huh, huh. ... Ah, the heck with it." As if from a mile away, the audience titters.

Similarly previewing their own end were the Sex Pistols at San Francisco's Winterland, less than a year later, caterwauling their way through the Stooges' "No Fun" in what turned out to be their last show. Johnny Rotten—hunch, rodent glare—is at the end of different kind of rope. Three years into the kamikaze fiasco of this band, his exhaustion and disgust have hit epic levels. "No fun, my babe, no fun. ... Oh bollocks, why should I carry on?" To his right, the soon-to-be-extinct Sid Vicious is playing his bass like he's thumbing somebody's eye. Clonk! Thwonk! "This is no fun," coughs Rotten. "It is no fun at all. ... No fu-un!" The song, and the band, collapse into history. "A-haha! Ever get the feeling you've been cheated? Good night!"

Willingly or unwillingly, Elvis and the Pistols were showing the void to their fans—a taste of the grave. But what happens when the void is reaching up from the front row? As far as onstage banter goes, nothing sorts the men from the boys like genuine offstage mayhem. Altamont may have been a disaster for Mick Jagger, whose effete pleas for order ("Cool out, my babies!") went unheard, but anyone who's seen the Maysles Bros. documentary Gimme Shelter knows that it was a shining rhetorical hour for Jefferson Airplane's Paul Kantner. As his lead singer falls beneath the blows of vigilante bikers, Kantner loses neither his head nor his sense of humor. "Hey man," he offers into the mic, his voice only slightly constricted by anxiety, "I'd like to mention that the Hells Angels just smashed Marty Balin in the face and knocked him out for a bit. I'd like to thank you for that." The Angels, for all their leather, are not impervious to Kantner's Shakespearean irony. "Is this thing on?" growls a biker brother, seizing a microphone. "You talking to me? I'm gonna talk to you." Could Jagger have piqued them with a similar mordancy at the crucial moment, things might have gone a little differently that night.

Fugazi of Washington, D.C., had riot containment down to a fine art: You might say it was part of their raison d'être. Anyone stage diving or slam dancing at a Fugazi show risked a brisk philosophical re-education—the music would stop, and through the buzz of idling amps, singer Ian MacKaye would make his displeasure plain. "You wanna kick and punch people?" he can be heard asking on Jem Cohen's 1999 documentary Instrument. "Then get the fuck up on the football field!" Co-singer Guy Picciotto becomes interested. "Those two?" he asks, before addressing the culprits in a folksy, reflective manner:

"You know, I saw you two guys earlier at the Good Humor truck, and you were eating your ice cream like little boys. And I thought, 'Those guys aren't so tough! They're eating ice cream! What a bunch of swell guys!' I saw you eating ice cream, pal. Oh, don't you deny it. You were eating an ice cream cone. You were eating an ice cream cone. Oh, you're bad now, you're bad now, but you were eating an ice cream cone, and I saw you."

It says something for the presence of Fugazi, for their commitment to a complete encounter with their audience, that Picciotto was able to improvise such a beat-perfect oratorical flight. What can have remained of the mosh pit goons after this fantastic denunciation? Two smoking pairs of sneakers?

Then again, a good riot is just what some people think they need. In a bootleg recording made at a 1972 concert in Frankfurt, Germany, dark blue troubadour Leonard Cohen can be heard growing suddenly depressed at his own depression. "I have been noted for my quiet songs," he murmurs, "and for my melancholy and solemn atmosphere. But I don't care if this concert turns into a riot. Because, you know, I can't go along with this, ah, pretence any longer." The crowd, devoutly hushed, seems somehow unripe for insurrection. Returning with a sigh to his music, Cohen strikes a morose half-chord on his guitar and is further dejected by some supportive applause and a single whoop of recognition. "You couldn't possibly know what song that is," he says wearily.

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Tell me again what is going on.

binnie
11-23-2007, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Sarge's Little Helper
Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Tell me again what is going on.

I wish I knew.

binnie
11-23-2007, 11:48 AM
I only posted this because I thought it was an interesting (if not particuarly clear or well structured) article - can we really read that much into a single moment? I think not.


Anyone at the Boston show catch this incident with the roadie throwing towels on stage?

Mr Grimsdale
11-23-2007, 12:03 PM
i have a woman who throws tissues at me quite often

binnie
11-23-2007, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by Mr Grimsdale
i have a woman who throws tissues at me quite often

I have one who throws her knickers at me quite often :D

EAT MY ASSHOLE
11-23-2007, 12:26 PM
Is that woman's name NickDFresh?

Shaun Ponsonby
11-23-2007, 01:34 PM
I don't think it's about Dave...it just seems to be about stage banter.

It also seems to have been written by a drunkard.

crsantin
11-23-2007, 02:12 PM
It's about moments of truth in the otherwise fantasy world or rock n roll-the brief moment of clarity when you get to see things how they really are. He mentioned the very uncomfortable Elvis moment, those few seconds when you could see the end of Elvis. When he mentions the incident with Dave, he's talking about the real anger that Dave might be feeling at having to pretend to be having a good time up there with the Van Halen brothers, pretending like everything is wonderful and we're all brothers, when in fact the real truth might be those few seconds where Dave turns on the roadie, gives him a venomous look and a few choice words-that might be the REAL reality of the current Van Halen situation. It's just a suggestion he's making, and an interesting one at that...maybe things aren't as wonderful as they appear to be and the truth reveals itself in those quick little moments. Eddie's had a bunch of them with his guitar tech as well.

Jurak
11-23-2007, 02:26 PM
And what the fuck does that have to do with the Canadian Dollar........ Huh?? I ask you...........

EAT MY ASSHOLE
11-23-2007, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by crsantin
It's about moments of truth in the otherwise fantasy world or rock n roll-the brief moment of clarity when you get to see things how they really are. He mentioned the very uncomfortable Elvis moment, those few seconds when you could see the end of Elvis. When he mentions the incident with Dave, he's talking about the real anger that Dave might be feeling at having to pretend to be having a good time up there with the Van Halen brothers, pretending like everything is wonderful and we're all brothers, when in fact the real truth might be those few seconds where Dave turns on the roadie, gives him a venomous look and a few choice words-that might be the REAL reality of the current Van Halen situation. It's just a suggestion he's making, and an interesting one at that...maybe things aren't as wonderful as they appear to be and the truth reveals itself in those quick little moments. Eddie's had a bunch of them with his guitar tech as well.


You're reading too much into it. Dave perceived that the roadie was interrupting the performance and the flow for the audience and the concentration of the people on stage. If I'm doing a presentation at work, and suddenly someone walks in and starts, I don't know, watering the plants, yeah, I'm gonna tell him to get the fuck out. If I'm in a restaurant and in the middle of dinner and the busboy starts taking my plate away, yeah, I'm gonna be a little pissed.

VH shows are actually highly choreographed, right down to the seemingly imporvised stage banter. If any x factors are introduced into the proceedings, then odds are all the subsequent steps are going to have to be rethought.

Even the writer says he couldn't tell exactly what the hell the roadie was doing. Imagine how much more disruptive and confusing that situation might be if you're the guy who's not in the audience, but trying to lead the entire proceedings.

Shaun Ponsonby
11-23-2007, 02:47 PM
Exactly...small interruptions can make you lose track.

Saw Heaven and Hell the other week, and a plastic "glass" hit Ronnie on the head during Neon Knights, it pissed him off (visibly) and he sang the wrong verse. Then he mouthed something to the guy who did it...afterwards he was visibly saying things to Tony and Geezer. Then, he forgot about it and finished the song...

Similar...

crsantin
11-23-2007, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
You're reading too much into it. Dave perceived that the roadie was interrupting the performance and the flow for the audience and the concentration of the people on stage. If I'm doing a presentation at work, and suddenly someone walks in and starts, I don't know, watering the plants, yeah, I'm gonna tell him to get the fuck out. If I'm in a restaurant and in the middle of dinner and the busboy starts taking my plate away, yeah, I'm gonna be a little pissed.

VH shows are actually highly choreographed, right down to the seemingly imporvised stage banter. If any x factors are introduced into the proceedings, then odds are all the subsequent steps are going to have to be rethought.

Even the writer says he couldn't tell exactly what the hell the roadie was doing. Imagine how much more disruptive and confusing that situation might be if you're the guy who's not in the audience, but trying to lead the entire proceedings.


Well, it's not me reading too much into it. I don't necessarily agree with the guy. I believe that is the point he was trying to illustrate, that truth can be revealed in very small, seemingly unimportant moments. Dave just got pissed at a roadie. This writer was speculating that perhaps there was more to that moment and then went on to provide a bunch of examples from other artists. I still think it was an interesting idea, even though I might not agree with the writer's idea here.

diamondsgirl
11-24-2007, 10:01 PM
I didn't notice this in Boston and my eyes never left Dave. Except when I went to the bathroom during I'll Wait. LOL.

But, I will say that Dave has a low tolerance for people fucking with his shit. He's always been like that.

Not sure what Dave's impatience has to do with a "void", but whatever. :rolleyes:

The best thing here, IMO, is this:


As his lead singer falls beneath the blows of vigilante bikers, Kantner loses neither his head nor his sense of humor. "Hey man," he offers into the mic, his voice only slightly constricted by anxiety, "I'd like to mention that the Hells Angels just smashed Marty Balin in the face and knocked him out for a bit. I'd like to thank you for that."

Funny shit. :D

Nitro Express
11-25-2007, 05:36 AM
Originally posted by Mr Grimsdale
i have a woman who throws tissues at me quite often

Sounds like my woman. They toss the tissues so semen doesn't get on the new 1000 count Egyptian cotton sheets and they go waddling off to the bathroom trying to not drip the fresh load you blasted them with. :D

Nitro Express
11-25-2007, 05:41 AM
The first time I saw Dave on a stage was in 1980. He was not a nice guy then either. He was a funny egomaniac who yelled at the sound guy. Van Halen is about ego. Always has been.

Ellyllions
11-25-2007, 09:10 AM
Yeah, I think it was a good piece to read. But like some of you, I think he's trying too hard to put that Dave incident into some kind of deeper context than he should've.

In Greensboro, I saw Dave making fun of some of the VIP'ers and thought to myself, "Yep, love him on stage but that's one bastard I never wanna meet."

Nitro's right. Dave's just arrogant. Just as Edward and Alex I'm sure. They're the "talent". Not a bad thing to be, and I've got no qualms with it. I'm just intelligent enough to know that they'd easily hurt my feelings and not give a shit. So I choose to stay away. Which I'm sure they'd appreciate. :)

ELVIS
11-25-2007, 02:48 PM
It would have been more appropriate inn 2004 with the first paragraph describing Sammy asking Edward on the last night of the tour...

"Where we playing tomorrow night, Ed" ??


:elvis:

Matt White
11-25-2007, 05:56 PM
DAVE doesn't suffer fools lightly............

binnie
11-26-2007, 06:08 AM
Originally posted by crsantin
It's about moments of truth in the otherwise fantasy world or rock n roll-the brief moment of clarity when you get to see things how they really are. He mentioned the very uncomfortable Elvis moment, those few seconds when you could see the end of Elvis. When he mentions the incident with Dave, he's talking about the real anger that Dave might be feeling at having to pretend to be having a good time up there with the Van Halen brothers, pretending like everything is wonderful and we're all brothers, when in fact the real truth might be those few seconds where Dave turns on the roadie, gives him a venomous look and a few choice words-that might be the REAL reality of the current Van Halen situation. It's just a suggestion he's making, and an interesting one at that...maybe things aren't as wonderful as they appear to be and the truth reveals itself in those quick little moments. Eddie's had a bunch of them with his guitar tech as well.

Re-reading the article, I think that you're right - this is exactly what they guy's trying to get at.

Cheers.

Polk High
11-27-2007, 02:18 PM
So I have to know did anyone slip?

DavidLeeNatra
11-28-2007, 06:15 AM
lol...dave yelled in full anger at the sound tech on the rehearsal "don't make me ask again"...then turns to ed, smiles and gives him a "high five"...so what...that journalist knows shit about shit...