Spygate Part II: The End for Belichick?

[Nickdfresh]

Latest Spygate wrinkle raises many questions
by Michael Rosenberg
Detroit Free Press columnist Michael Rosenberg is a contributor toFOXSports.com. (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7749562?MSNHPHMA#)

So much for that.

The Boston Herald quoted a source who said that on the eve of their first Super Bowl win, the Patriots videotaped a St. Louis Rams walkthrough. Former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh has hinted to a few media organizations that he has some seriously damaging info on the Pats' videotaping practices.

And suddenly, a compelling Super Bowl just got a lot more compelling.

This is not going away. It will not go away. And it raises all sorts of questions, starting with ...

1. Will this affect the Patriots in Super Bowl XLII?

We know, we know: Nothing affects the Patriots. They draw their feelings from their coach, which means they don't have any. When they signed with New England, the players all had their tear ducts removed. They would think nothing of following through on Mike Tyson's promise to eat Lennox Lewis's children, especially if it would help them gain, say, two-thirds of a yard.

When the first spying story broke, the Patriots were unaffected. When the NFL docked them a first-round pick, the Patriots were unfazed. When people said nobody could go unbeaten in today's NFL, the Patriots were undeterred.

But what about this? With their very legacy in question, will the Patriots finally get rattled? (Personally, I don't think there's a chance in the world of that happening. But hey, it's a worthy question.)

2. Will this affect the NFL ... like, ever?

Seriously, what does this league have to do to loosen its grip on the American public?

Hundreds of columnists get indignant when a middle infielder is linked to performance-enhancing drugs, but nobody bats an eye when it happens to the Patriots' Rodney Harrison or San Diego's Shawne Merriman. When former NFL star Pacman Jones went three kinds of insane at the NBA All-Star game, people placed the blame on ... the NBA.

So what about this? The dominant franchise of this generation and maybe the best coach in the history of the game are accused of cheating to win the Super Bowl. Not to say that should ruin the achievement, but shouldn't it leave a little stain?

We all know that stealing signals happens in the NFL. Every team tries it. But that doesn't mean that what the Patriots did against the Jets or are accused of doing against the Rams is either standard practice or OK. In the NFL code, you steal signs with your own eyes, not with video cameras.

Doesn't anybody care? Or is it all OK because it didn't affect anybody's fantasy team?

3. Is there any doubt who the bad guys are?

Hey, if you are a lifelong Patriots fan, or even a years-long Patriots fan, of course you cheer for your team. That goes without saying. I would not expect fans to abandon their team over this.

But for the rest of us ... well, on one sideline you have a resilient underdog, with a likeable young quarterback who has withstood considerable heat in the toughest sports town in America.

On the other side, you have a team that has flouted the rules and a coach who has shown no use for the league's big shots, the media and, by extension, the fans. Plug "Belichick shoves" into Youtube and you get a few seconds that reveal so much — how he shoved aside a photographer, without even thinking twice, so he could give a half-hearted hug to former assistant Eric Mangini.

On many days, that seems to be Belichick's attitude toward the world.

Compared to Bill Belichick, Tom Coughlin is Mr. Rogers.

And this brings us to the big one ...

4. Is this it for Bill Belichick?

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has shown a penchant for doling out serious penalties. The Patriots know it. So does Michael Vick. So does Pacman Jones.

Goodell largely took the Patriots on their word in September. He destroyed their tapes and risked accusations of a cover-up (which Sen. Arlen Specter is now levying.)

If more facts tumble out, how can Goodell let Belichick go unpunished? If Belichick lied or misled Goodell about the extent of his illegal videotaping, and if that videotaping included a walkthrough the day before a Super Bowl, doesn't Goodell have to suspend Belichick? Would it shock anybody if the suspension was considerable?

This is all hypothetical, of course. But it is not inconceivable. And it is at least plausible that Belichick will look at all this and say, "I just went 19-0. Screw all of you. Adios."

If that's the case, one of the most fascinating coaching tenures in American sports history could end.

Nobody needs to be told to watch a Super Bowl. But here's my advice: Don't just watch.

Record it, too.

[Sarge's Little Helper]

Latest Spygate wrinkle raises many questions
by Michael Rosenberg
Detroit Free Press columnist Michael Rosenberg is a contributor toFOXSports.com. (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7749562?MSNHPHMA#)

An archive of his Free Press columns can be found here.
Updated: February 2, 2008, 7:44 PM EST 231 comments
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Well, we liked to think it wouldn't happen. We acted like the Patriots' spying scandal would never resurface again.

Giants vs. Patriots

News

* Report: Pats worker filmed Rams
* Burress participates in walkthrough
* Giant arrested on DUI suspicion

Analysis

* Rosenberg: Is this it for Belichick?
* Kriegel: Spygate tapes haunt Goodell
* Marvez: Looking for Patriots' flaws
* Behrendt: Giants' lessons learned?
* Whitlock: Pray for Pats to win

Video Central

* Top sights and sounds from Glendale
* All the best from Super Bowl Live

Rapid Fire

* Got something to ask the FOX NFL Sunday crew? Send it along to Rapid Fire and have it read on the air. Submit your questions!

Super Bowl Central

* What you need to know for the big game

The participants

* Giants news & notes | Roster

* Patriots news & notes | Roster

Photo galleries:

* Super Bowl celeb parties
* Prepping for the big game
* Super Bowl media day
* Tom and Gisele
* NFL cheerleaders

Super Shopping:

* Patriots and Giants gear, plus fan collectibles and more
* Buy Tickets

So much for that.

The Boston Herald quoted a source who said that on the eve of their first Super Bowl win, the Patriots videotaped a St. Louis Rams walkthrough. Former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh has hinted to a few media organizations that he has some seriously damaging info on the Pats' videotaping practices.

And suddenly, a compelling Super Bowl just got a lot more compelling.

This is not going away. It will not go away. And it raises all sorts of questions, starting with ...

1. Will this affect the Patriots in Super Bowl XLII?

We know, we know: Nothing affects the Patriots. They draw their feelings from their coach, which means they don't have any. When they signed with New England, the players all had their tear ducts removed. They would think nothing of following through on Mike Tyson's promise to eat Lennox Lewis's children, especially if it would help them gain, say, two-thirds of a yard.

When the first spying story broke, the Patriots were unaffected. When the NFL docked them a first-round pick, the Patriots were unfazed. When people said nobody could go unbeaten in today's NFL, the Patriots were undeterred.

But what about this? With their very legacy in question, will the Patriots finally get rattled? (Personally, I don't think there's a chance in the world of that happening. But hey, it's a worthy question.)

2. Will this affect the NFL ... like, ever?

Seriously, what does this league have to do to loosen its grip on the American public?

Hundreds of columnists get indignant when a middle infielder is linked to performance-enhancing drugs, but nobody bats an eye when it happens to the Patriots' Rodney Harrison or San Diego's Shawne Merriman. When former NFL star Pacman Jones went three kinds of insane at the NBA All-Star game, people placed the blame on ... the NBA.

So what about this? The dominant franchise of this generation and maybe the best coach in the history of the game are accused of cheating to win the Super Bowl. Not to say that should ruin the achievement, but shouldn't it leave a little stain?

We all know that stealing signals happens in the NFL. Every team tries it. But that doesn't mean that what the Patriots did against the Jets or are accused of doing against the Rams is either standard practice or OK. In the NFL code, you steal signs with your own eyes, not with video cameras.

Doesn't anybody care? Or is it all OK because it didn't affect anybody's fantasy team?

3. Is there any doubt who the bad guys are?

Hey, if you are a lifelong Patriots fan, or even a years-long Patriots fan, of course you cheer for your team. That goes without saying. I would not expect fans to abandon their team over this.

But for the rest of us ... well, on one sideline you have a resilient underdog, with a likeable young quarterback who has withstood considerable heat in the toughest sports town in America.

On the other side, you have a team that has flouted the rules and a coach who has shown no use for the league's big shots, the media and, by extension, the fans. Plug "Belichick shoves" into Youtube and you get a few seconds that reveal so much — how he shoved aside a photographer, without even thinking twice, so he could give a half-hearted hug to former assistant Eric Mangini.

On many days, that seems to be Belichick's attitude toward the world.

Compared to Bill Belichick, Tom Coughlin is Mr. Rogers.

And this brings us to the big one ...

4. Is this it for Bill Belichick?

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has shown a penchant for doling out serious penalties. The Patriots know it. So does Michael Vick. So does Pacman Jones.

Goodell largely took the Patriots on their word in September. He destroyed their tapes and risked accusations of a cover-up (which Sen. Arlen Specter is now levying.)

If more facts tumble out, how can Goodell let Belichick go unpunished? If Belichick lied or misled Goodell about the extent of his illegal videotaping, and if that videotaping included a walkthrough the day before a Super Bowl, doesn't Goodell have to suspend Belichick? Would it shock anybody if the suspension was considerable?

This is all hypothetical, of course. But it is not inconceivable. And it is at least plausible that Belichick will look at all this and say, "I just went 19-0. Screw all of you. Adios."

If that's the case, one of the most fascinating coaching tenures in American sports history could end.

Nobody needs to be told to watch a Super Bowl. But here's my advice: Don't just watch.

Record it, too.

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Tell me again what is going on.

[Dave's PA Rental]

I really love the timing of this.

ESPN know about the possibility of the Pats taping the Rams walkthrough back in week 3, but they had no conformation, and there is no tape. So they didnt report it.

Media hacks and politicians with agendas...

The slings and arrows that get thrown at you for being the best...people will always look for, or create, chinks in the armor, and the grapes must taste awful sour by now.

[ALinChainz]

I am really tired of hearing it.

What football comes down to is lining up and beating the guy in front of you. Running, throwing, catching, tackling, covering, etc.

Speed on speed, strength on strength.

Football.

I have absolutely no problem with pulling for the Pats tomorrow and I hope they mop the Giants.

[Romeo Delight]

Originally posted by ALinChainz


What football comes down to is lining up and beating the guy in front of you. Running, throwing, catching, tackling, covering, etc.



You're kidding me right?

Taping a 2 hour walkthrough of plays drawn up for a 2005 Super Bowl game is a HUGE problem.

Even if you get one play from it, it could change the outcome of the game.

I might be wrong here...I'm not...but don't you think that the Rams might have had just a couple plays drawn up to take advantage of the Patriots' strengths and weaknesses?

As for the timing...don't cheat and you won't have to worry about the timing of these things soming out.

[ALinChainz]

I would never kid you Flamma.

I would hardly talk to you let alone kid you.

A "walk through" is just that.

The Rams were mass favorites in that game, so I suppose this tape changed everything.

And it isn't even proven as the Pats deny it.

The thing here is sign stealing and this type of thing has been going on in all sprts for many years.

Baseball teams have for many years had cameras and staff stationed around ballparks stealing signs.

If you know where Randy Moss is going, does that make the guy covering him faster? If you place another man on him, does that not make someone else open?

The Eagles, Ravens, and Giants all had shots at beating them in the regular season, they didn't.

Spygate or anything else had anything else to do with those teams losing.

[Romeo Delight]

Originally posted by ALinChainz
I would never kid you Flamma.

I would hardly talk to you let alone kid you.



Ok then:rolleyes:

Following your logic, steroids has been a part of professional sports for years as well, so it is ok then?

It is one thing to watch the opposing sidelines and trying to predict a blitz, etc.

Quite another to video tape the plays drawn up for THAT game specifically.

You are right about baseball, but we are talking about football here.

It is ironic in my mind that the Bonds issue is so big given the culture of cheating in that sport.

Nevertheless, the NFL has rules against this type of behavior and if it can be proven, the Pats should lose 5 first round draft picks.

I don't think it will be proven because it will be such a black eye for the NFL in their championship game. They are going to bury this if they can (they have alrewady tried and it is not going away)

I think I have seen a few NFL games in my lifetime and seen at least 40 live. From what I can recall, a pretty big part of the game is showing run and passing and vice versa.

If memory serves, a few td's have been scored that way.

Do you think it is a bit of a reach that the Pats could have prevented one big play and/or scored one with the knowledge they gained from watching essentially a rehearsal of the plays to be called during the game?

Yeah, nevermind, that's crazy talk...

[ALinChainz]

Now I never said any of it was okay ... never.

[ALinChainz]

Just saying the impact isnt what its being made out to be nor is it new to sports.

Any and all sports.

[Dave's PA Rental]

The Kings are dead. Long live the Kings. Now all you fucking jackals can descend and gnaw on the rotting flesh.

Will that make you sleep better?

Watch these stories go away now that the Pats lost the SB. Then ask yourself what your motivation was for getting your little cunt-stained panties in such a wad.

The little loser bitches scream and wail and hold their breath until the big kids notice them.

[Romeo Delight]

Now if we were talking about soccer or hockey, I might agree that knowing the other team's plan of attack/defence would be of marginal benefit.

But we are talking about football, which is about as close to chess as you will see.

After watching this game you can't tell me that if the Pats had tape of the walk-through that they wouldn't have had the edge they needed to win. Maybe by 14 even.

Again, don't cheat and these problems won't happen. So the world is supposed to ignore the former Patriots employee whoi admitted to the affair? Please.

Who's whining now? If they would have won the Patriots would have talked about this being the rallying cry...instead I think there are more questions.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ALinChainz
I would never kid you Flamma.

I would hardly talk to you let alone kid you.

A "walk through" is just that.

...

Then why tape it?

[ALinChainz]

No proof but a rumor that says the walk through was taped.

The Pats flatly deny taping it.

They may have gotten caught before, but no one has lied.

Yet anyways.

I still don't see the significance. Coaches pick up shit like this all the time and signs and signals are always changed during the game to protect against them being stolen, even if there isn't any signs of it.

And lets not forget this.

New England got caught. But there is no way in hell that there hasn't been other teams who have done this. The Pats did not invent it, they just got caught doing it.

[Bob Brubake]

As a Rams fan, it was a tough loss to get over, but I finally did. I'm not gonna get my hopes up over this, if there is any evidence, the commish will just sweep it under the rug anyway.

[Little Texan]

What I don't understand is if they're a good team, then why do they have to cheat in the first place?

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by Little Texan
What I don't understand is if they're a good team, then why do they have to cheat in the first place?

exactly haha. It first came out when the Jets claimed the Pats were cheating...my question is WHO THE FUCK NEEDS TO CHEAT TO BEAT THE JETS?!?!?!?

[DLR'sCock]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-goodell-specter&prov=ap&type=lgns

Belichick has been taping since 2000, Goodell tells Specter

By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Writer
February 13, 2008
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Bill Belichick has been illegally taping opponents' defensive signals since he became the New England Patriots' coach in 2000, according to Sen. Arlen Specter, who said NFL commissioner Roger Goodell told him that during a meeting Wednesday.

"There was confirmation that there has been taping since 2000, when Coach Belichick took over," Specter said.

Specter said Goodell gave him that information during the 1-hour, 40-minute meeting, which was requested by Specter so the commissioner could explain his reasons for destroying the Spygate tapes and notes.


"There were a great many questions answered by Commissioner Goodell," Specter, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters after the meeting. "I found a lot of questions unanswerable because of the tapes and notes had been destroyed."

Goodell said Belichick told him he believed the taping was legal; Goodell said he did not concur.

"He said that's always been his interpretation since he's been the head coach," the commissioner said. "We are going to agree to disagree on the facts."

Specter, from Pennsylvania, wants to talk to other league officials about what exactly was taped and which games may have been compromised.

"We have a right to have honest football games," he said.

Goodell noted that "we were the ones that disclosed" the Patriots' illegal taping of the New York Jets' defensive signals in Week 1 of last season. Further, Goodell said, they had an admission by Belichick.

"I have nothing to hide," Goodell said.

Goodell also told Specter that that he doesn't regret destroying the Spygate tapes or the notes.

"I think it was the right thing to do," Goodell said.

Still, Specter wants to know why penalties were imposed on Belichick before the full extent of the wrongdoing was known and the tapes destroyed in a two-week span. Asked if he thinks there was a coverup, Specter demurred.

"There was an enormous amount of haste," Specter said.

He scoffed at the reasons Goodell gave for destroying the tapes and notes, particularly about trying to keep them out of competitors' hands and because Belichick had admitted to the taping.

"What's that got to do with it? There's an admission of guilt, you preserve the evidence," Specter said. As for keeping the tapes out of the hands of others: "All you have to do is lock up the tapes."

Belichick was fined $500,000 and the team was fined $250,000 because of the Spygate incident. The Patriots also forfeited a first-round draft pick.

Specter has questioned the quality of the NFL's investigation into the matter and raised the possibility of congressional hearings if he wasn't satisfied with Goodell's answers. Specter also raised the threat of Congress canceling the league's antitrust exemption and reiterated that in the meeting with Goodell.

Goodell also said he has not heard from Matt Walsh, the former Patriots employee who performed some videotaping duties for the team.

Walsh told The Associated Press last week during the Pro Bowl in Hawaii that he couldn't talk about allegations that he taped a walkthrough practice by the St. Louis Rams before the 2002 Super Bowl. New England, a two-touchdown underdog, won that game 20-17.

Goodell said he has offered Walsh a deal whereby "he has to tell the truth and he has to return anything he took improperly" in return for indemnity. Specter said he, too, wanted to talk to Walsh and perhaps offer a different deal.

Goodell also said he reserves the right to reopen the investigation if more information is uncovered.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Dave's PA Rental
The Kings are dead. Long live the Kings. Now all you fucking jackals can descend and gnaw on the rotting flesh.

Will that make you sleep better?

Watch these stories go away now that the Pats lost the SB. Then ask yourself what your motivation was for getting your little cunt-stained panties in such a wad.

The little loser bitches scream and wail and hold their breath until the big kids notice them.

Dude, this petulance from someone whose team was caught cheating is pretty obnoxious.

They're a bunch of cocky goddamn fucking cheaters. Now they have players taking less than market value to play for them based on this legacy of cheating.

Fuck the patriots.

[scamper]

Originally posted by Bob Brubake
As a Rams fan, it was a tough loss to get over, but I finally did. I'm not gonna get my hopes up over this, if there is any evidence, the commish will just sweep it under the rug anyway.

I'm not sure what you would get your hopes up for. They're not going to take a superbowl win away from any team.


Originally posted by Little Texan
What I don't understand is if they're a good team, then why do they have to cheat in the first place?

I think they proved they don't need to cheat when after they got caught they went on to kick the crap out of most of their opponents.

I'm not a Pats fan and was as happy as anyone to see the G men beat them, but the facts are that....they are a good team....everyone tries to steal signs....there is no proof that they taped the rams....senators should not be wasting our tax money on this because it's a football rule not a government law....the Falcons will never have back to back winning seasons (damn it).

[Dave's PA Rental]

Arlen Specter's two main campaign cash contributors are Comcast and the lawfirm that represents Comcast.

This entire bullshit is just a political backroom extortion ploy, and you feeble minded douch bags are the foot soldiers in the attack on the NFL Network.

That's all this is. Bookmark this post. Once the NFL network 'decides' to let Comcast carry the NFL network for free, this story goes away.

But please, all you psudo-sports fans...please continue to follow the headlines and soundbites and let sports radio form your opinions for you...

[Dave's PA Rental]

...I miss Hunter S. Thompson...he would have set all you hapless RUBES straight...

[Romeo Delight]

Originally posted by Dave's PA Rental
Arlen Specter's two main campaign cash contributors are Comcast and the lawfirm that represents Comcast.

This entire bullshit is just a political backroom extortion ploy, and you feeble minded douch bags are the foot soldiers in the attack on the NFL Network.



AND?????

I don't care.

All I know is the Patriots make themselves a pretty easy target, what with running up the score all year, going for it on 4th down, when these blowouts were more than decided.

Oh right, the other infraction, loss of a first-round draft pick and fine was the first and only time, a case of bad judgement:rolleyes:

They should pay a price if it can be proven.

[DlocRoth]

Originally posted by Dave's PA Rental
...I miss Hunter S. Thompson...he would have set all you hapless RUBES straight...

LOL

The man did know football.....

"Hey Rube" is hilarious......

Now back to exile, already in progress.......

See you whores in time for baseball....

[ace diamond]

IT IS INTERESTING TO ME THAT GOODELL DESTROYED THE EVIDENCE.

[Bob Brubake]

Now that Belichick has officially denied that the Patriots taped the walk thru., he better hope Walsh is lying. Walsh says he has the tapes.

Personally, I'll be happy knowing Belichick won't be held in the same regard as Tom Landry, Chuck Noll, Vince Lombardi....etc.. In other words, I would not mind if his legacy is tarnished forever.

[indeedido]

BELICHICKEN

[ace diamond]

BELI-CHICKENSHIT-WHINY-ASS-WUSSY-CUNT-COCKSUCKER!!!

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Dave's PA Rental
But please, all you psudo-sports fans...please continue to follow the headlines and soundbites and let sports radio form your opinions for you...

:rolleyes: That's right, we're all "rubes" and "psudo-sports fans" while the great and knowledgeable patriots fan is the only one who truly understands the game and the power plays swirling around it.

If my man spector can use the patriots cheating as a wedge to get sunday ticket on regular cable, I'm all for it. Two wins! Fuck em all!