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Redballjets88
02-14-2009, 03:21 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090214/ap_on_go_co/stimulus_stakes_who_gets_what (lounge is a pussy)

Consumers

* Obama: Stimulus passage is a 'major milestone' Play Video Video:Obama: Stimulus passage is a 'major milestone' AP

Chart breaks down stimulus totals for states for AP – Chart breaks down stimulus totals for states for infrastructure

An examination of how the economic stimulus plan will affect Americans.

___

Taxes:

The recovery package has tax breaks for families that send a child to college, purchase a new car, buy a first home or make the ones they own more energy efficient.

Millions of workers can expect to see about $13 extra in their weekly paychecks, starting around June, from a new $400 tax credit to be doled out through the rest of the year. Couples would get up to $800. In 2010, the credit would be about $7.70 a week, if it is spread over the entire year.

The $1,000 child tax credit would be extended to more low-income families that don't make enough money to pay income taxes, and poor families with three or more children will get an expanded Earned Income Tax Credit.

Middle-income and wealthy taxpayers will be spared from paying the Alternative Minimum Tax, which was designed 40 years ago to make sure wealthy taxpayers pay at least some tax, but was never indexed for inflation. Congress fixes it each year, usually in the fall.

First-time homebuyers who purchase their homes before Dec. 1 would be eligible for an $8,000 tax credit, and people who buy new cars before the end of the year can write off the sales taxes.

Homeowners who add energy-efficient windows, furnaces and air conditioners can get a tax credit to cover 30 percent of the costs, up to a total of $1,500. College students — or their parents — are eligible for tax credits of up to $2,500 to help pay tuition and related expenses in 2009 and 2010.

Those receiving unemployment benefits this year wouldn't pay any federal income taxes on the first $2,400 they receive.

___

Health insurance:

Many workers who lose their health insurance when they lose their jobs will find it cheaper to keep that coverage while they look for work.

Right now, most people working for medium and large employers can continue their coverage for 18 months under the COBRA program when they lose their job. It's expensive, often over $1,000 a month, because they pay the share of premiums once covered by their employer as well as their own share from the old group plan.

Under the stimulus package, the government will pick up 65 percent of the total cost of that premium for the first nine months.

Lawmakers initially proposed to help workers from small companies, too, who don't generally qualify for COBRA coverage. But that fell through. The idea was to have Washington pay to extend Medicaid to them.

COBRA applies to group plans at companies employing at least 20 people. The subsidies will be offered to those who lost their jobs from Sept. 1 to the end of this year.

Those who were put out of work after September but didn't elect to have COBRA coverage at the time will have 60 days to sign up.

The plan offers $87 billion to help states administer Medicaid. That could slow or reverse some of the steps states have taken to cut the program.

___

Infrastructure:

Highways repaved for the first time in decades. Century-old waterlines dug up and replaced with new pipes. Aging bridges, stressed under the weight of today's SUVs, reinforced with fresh steel and concrete.

But the $90 billion is a mere down payment on what's needed to repair and improve the country's physical backbone. And not all economists agree it's an effective way to add jobs in the long term, or stimulate the economy.

___

Energy:

Homeowners looking to save energy, makers of solar panels and wind turbines and companies hoping to bring the electric grid into the computer age all stand to reap major benefits.

The package contains more than $42 billion in energy-related investments from tax credits to homeowners to loan guarantees for renewable energy projects and direct government grants for makers of wind turbines and next-generation batteries.

There's a 30 percent tax credit of up to $1,500 for the purchase of a highly efficient residential air conditioners, heat pumps or furnaces. The credit also can be used by homeowners to replace leaky windows or put more insulation into the attic. About $300 million would go for rebates to get people to buy efficient appliances.

The package includes $20 billion aimed at "green" jobs to make wind turbines, solar panels and improve energy efficiency in schools and federal buildings. It includes $6 billion in loan guarantees for renewable energy projects as well as tax breaks or direct grants covering 30 percent of wind and solar energy investments. Another $5 billion is marked to help low-income homeowners make energy improvements.

About $11 billion goes to modernize and expand the nation's electric power grid and $2 billion to spur research into batteries for future electric cars.

___

Schools:

A main goal of education spending in the stimulus bill is to help keep teachers on the job.

Nearly 600,000 jobs in elementary and secondary schools could be eliminated by state budget cuts over the next three years, according to a study released this past week by the University of Washington. Fewer teachers means higher class sizes, something that districts are scrambling to prevent.

The stimulus sets up a $54 billion fund to help prevent or restore state budget cuts, of which $39 billion must go toward kindergarten through 12th grade and higher education. In addition, about $8 billion of the fund could be used for other priorities, including modernization and renovation of schools and colleges, though how much is unclear, because Congress decided not to specify a dollar figure.

The Education Department will distribute the money as quickly as it can over the next couple of years.

And it adds $25 billion extra to No Child Left Behind and special education programs, which help pay teacher salaries, among other things.

This money may go out much more slowly; states have five years to spend the dollars, and they have a history of spending them slowly. In fact, states don't spend all the money; they return nearly $100 million to the federal treasury every year.

The stimulus bill also includes more than $4 billion for the Head Start and Early Head Start early education programs and for child care programs.

___

National debt:

One thing about the president's $790 billion stimulus package is certain: It will jack up the federal debt.

Whether or not it succeeds in producing jobs and taming the recession, tomorrow's taxpayers will end up footing the bill.

Forecasters expect the 2009 deficit — for the budget year that began last Oct 1 — to hit $1.6 trillion including new stimulus and bank-bailout spending. That's about three times last year's shortfall.

The torrents of red ink are being fed by rising federal spending and falling tax revenues from hard-hit businesses and individuals.

The national debt — the sum of all annual budget deficits — stands at $10.7 trillion. Or about $36,000 for every man, woman and child in the U.S.

Interest payments alone on the national debt will near $500 billion this year. It's already the fourth-largest federal expenditure, after Medicare-Medicaid, Social Security and defense.

This will affect us all directly for years, as well as our children and possibly grandchildren, in higher taxes and probably reduced government services. It will also force continued government borrowing, increasingly from China, Japan, Britain, Saudi Arabia and other foreign creditors.

___

Environment:

The package includes $9.2 billion for environmental projects at the Interior Department and the Environmental Protection Agency. The money would be used to shutter abandoned mines on public lands, to help local governments protect drinking water supplies, and to erect energy-efficient visitor centers at wildlife refuges and national parks.

The Interior Department estimates that its portion of the work would generate about 100,000 jobs over the next two years.

Yet the plan will only make a dent in the backlog of cleanups facing the EPA and the long list of chores at the country's national parks, refuges and other public lands. It would be more like a down payment.

When it comes to national parks, the plan sets aside $735 million for road repairs and maintenance. But that's a fraction of the $9 billion worth of work waiting for funding.

At EPA, the payout is $7.2 billion. The bulk of the money will help local communities and states repair and improve drinking water systems and fund projects that protect bays, rivers and other waterways used as sources of drinking water.

The rest of EPA's cut — $800 million — will be used to clean up leaky gasoline storage tanks and the nation's hazardous waste sites.

___

Police:

The stimulus bill includes plenty of green for those wearing blue.

The compromise bill doles out more than $3.7 billion for police programs, much of which is set aside for hiring new officers.

The law allocates $2 billion for the Byrne Justice Assistance Grant, a program that has funded drug task forces and things such as prisoner rehabilitation and after-school programs.

An additional $1 billion is set aside to hire local police under the Community Oriented Policing Services program. The program, known as COPS grants, paid the salaries of many local police officers and was a "modest contributor" to the decline in crime in the 1990s, according to a 2005 government oversight report.

Both programs had all been eliminated during the Bush administration.

The bill also includes $225 million for general criminal justice grants for things such as youth mentoring programs, $225 million for Indian tribe law enforcement, $125 million for police in rural areas, $100 million for victims of crimes, $50 million to fight Internet crimes against children and $40 million in grants for law enforcement along the Mexican border.

___

Higher Education:

The maximum Pell Grant, which helps the lowest-income students attend college, would increase from $4,731 currently to $5,350 starting July 1 and $5,550 in 2010-2011. That would cover three-quarters of the average cost of a four-year college. An extra 800,000 students, or about 7 million, would now get Pell funding.

The stimulus also increases the tuition tax credit to $2,500 and makes it 40 percent refundable, so families who don't earn enough to pay income tax could still get up to $1,000 in extra tuition help.

Computer expenses will now be an allowable expense for 529 college savings plans.

The final package cut $6 billion the House wanted to spend to kick-start building projects on college campuses. But parts of the $54 billion state stabilization fund — with $39 billion set aside for education — can be used for modernizing facilities.

There's also an estimated $15 billion for scientific research, much of which will go to universities. Funding for the National Institutes of Health includes $1.5 billion set aside for university research facilities.

Altogether, the package spends an estimated $32 billion on higher education.

___

The Poor:

More than 37 million Americans live in poverty, and the vast majority of them are in line for extra help under the giant stimulus package. Millions more could be kept from slipping into poverty by the economic lifeline.

People who get food stamps — 30 million and growing — will get more. People drawing unemployment checks — nearly 5 million and growing — would get an extra $25, and keep those checks coming longer. People who get Supplemental Security Income — 7 million poor Americans who are elderly, blind or disabled — would get one-time extra payments of $250.

Many low-income Americans also are likely to benefit from a trifecta of tax credits: expansions to the existing Child Tax Credit and Earned Income Tax Credit, and a new refundable tax credit for workers. Taken together, the three credits are expected to keep more than 2 million Americans from falling into poverty, including more than 800,000 children, according to the private Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

The package also includes a $3 billion emergency fund to provide temporary assistance to needy families. In addition, cash-strapped states will get an infusion of $87 billion for Medicaid, the government health program for poor people, and that should help them avoid cutting off benefits to the needy.


13 Dollars a paycheck? That isn't gunna do too much there Barack.

I wonder how long it will take for him to centralize all the power of government to the federal level.
__________________

Redballjets88
02-14-2009, 03:22 PM
One sound minded politician says....

Stimulus for Who?

This week the House is expected to pass an $825 billion economic stimulus package. In reality, this bill is just an escalation of a government-created economic mess. As before, a sense of urgency and impending doom is being used to extract mountains of money from Congress with minimal debate. So much for change. This is déjà vu. We are again being promised that its passage will help employment, help homeowners, help the environment, etc. These promises are worthless. This time around especially, Congress should know better than to pass anything of this magnitude without first reading the fine print. There a many red flags that I have found in this bill.

At least $4 billion is allocated to expanding the police state and the war on drugs through Byrne grants, which even the Bush administration opposed, and the COPS program, both of which are corrupt and largely ineffective programs.

To help Big Brother keep a better eye on us and our children, $20 billion would go towards health information technology, which would create a national system of electronic medical records without adequate privacy protection. These records would instead be subject to the misnamed federal “medical privacy” rule, which allows government and state-favored special interests to see medical records at will. An additional $250 million is allocated for states to nationalize individual student data, expanding Federal control of education and eroding privacy.

$79 billion bails out states that haphazardly expanded their budgets during the bubble years, but refuse to retrench and cut back, as their taxpayers have had to, during recession years.

$200 million expands Americorps. $100 million goes to “faith-and-community” based organizations for social services, which will further insinuate the government into charity and community service. Private charities are much more efficient and effective because they are directly accountable to donors, while public programs tend to get rewarded for failure. With its money, the Federal Government brings its incompetence and its whims, while creating foolish dependence. This is sad to see.

Of course the bill is rife with central planning projects. $4 billion for job training, much of which will be used to direct workers into “green jobs”. $200 million to “encourage” electric cars, $2 billion to support US manufacturers of advanced batteries and battery systems, which is yet another function of government I can’t find in the Constitution. Not to mention $500 million for energy efficient manufacturing demonstration projects, $70 million for a Technology Innovation Program for “research in potentially revolutionary technologies” in which government, not supply and demand, will pick winners and losers. $746 million for afterschool snacks, $6.75 billion for the Department of Commerce, including $1 billion for a census.

This bill delivers an additional debt burden of $6,700 to every American man, woman and child.

There is a lot of stimulus and growth in this bill – that is, of government. Nothing in this bill stimulates the freedom and prosperity of the American people. Politician-directed spending is never as successful as market-driven investment. Instead of passing this bill, Congress should get out of the way by cutting taxes, cutting spending, and reining in the reckless monetary policy of the Federal Reserve.

Posted by Ron Paul (Jan 26, 2009, 12:53:53)
__________________

Redballjets88
02-14-2009, 03:23 PM
http://www.house.gov/apps/blog/tx14_...126_2631.shtml

LoungeMachine
02-14-2009, 03:25 PM
Very good.

Was that hard?

Did that take you more than 15 seconds?

:gulp:

chefcraig
02-14-2009, 03:39 PM
Man, you have to admit this thing is just hemorrhaging more debt. Sure, there are good intentions buried within it, yet I really do not trust how the money is going to be doled out. For instance, one of the cities in my state will be using the funds earmarked for the police not to hire more officers, yet to build a new fire station (which is unneeded, even local firefighters will tell you). The upgrades for equipment are not for the continuing education or badly needed materials for the police, yet to turn an aging fleet of vehicles into hybrids. No new officers are scheduled to be added, part of a hiring-freeze that has been going on for more than two years now.

And just what does the phrase $200 million to “encourage” electric cars mean, exactly? http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-confused-smileys-718.gif (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/Free-Confused-Smileys/)

twonabomber
02-14-2009, 04:42 PM
and poor families with three or more children will get an expanded Earned Income Tax Credit.

some people are poor because they keep having kids they can't fucking afford...


There's a 30 percent tax credit of up to $1,500 for the purchase of a highly efficient residential air conditioner, heat pumps or furnaces.

and the utilities will fuck you back by adding bullshit "delivery fees" and other things that will replace the revenue lost due to higher efficiency.

FORD
02-14-2009, 05:09 PM
One good thing is that the Original Americans are not being left out of this stimulus package. Some of the worst poverty on this planet is in "Indian Country" :(


Obama Makes Good On Promises To Indian Country In Stimulus Bill
Added by Mark Nickolas on Feb 13, 2009

If you've ever visited an Indian reservation and ventured into the actual community (going to a casino doesn't count), you would know just how heartbreaking it is to witness how these Americans are forced to live. Frankly, it's impossible to believe that you're standing on United States soil and not in a Third World country.

During the year I spent in South Dakota, traveling with Sen. Tim Johnson (D-SD) as his deputy campaign manager during his 2002 re-election, I had reason to visit seven of the nine Sioux reservations in the state on at least one occasion (but mostly a number of times). It was an eye-opening experience for someone like me who grew-up in a major urban area (San Francisco) and, I thought, not naive about how the lesser in our society live.

I was dead wrong. I was floored by the abject poverty, rampant unemployment, the staggering percentages of families who lacked a phone, electricity, running water, and sewage service. Not surprisingly, the roads were awful and the number of health and educational facilities was truly offensive. Sadly, few Americans have any idea what life is like for our native people on reservations all across the country.

But you might recall some of my posts during the presidential race (here and here) about how the Obama camp was making a very aggressive effort on the reservations (understandably, voter turnout there is typically minuscule). Not surprising, leading the Obama effort in Indian country was none other than Obama field general Steve Hildebrand (who was Tim Johnson's campaign manager in 2002 when I was deputy), and that caused me to watch the effort with great interest. As a result of their hard-fought and tenacious efforts, Obama won an enormous share of the vote on the reservations.

I raise this because I just went through the breakdown of spending in the final stimulus bill and it seems that Indian country was not left out and was allocated some modest and long-overdue help. No doubt, the Obama White House made sure that we didn't leave them out, once again.

I doubt the media will spend any time on this, so I wanted to point it out:

* Highway infrastructure funds for the Indian Reservation Roads program ($550,000,000);

* Native American housing block grants ($510,000,000);

* Bureau of Indian Affairs construction of roads, schools and detention centers ($450,000,000);

* Indian health facilities ($415,000,000);

* State and local law enforcement assistance to Indian tribes ($225,000,000);

* Community Development Financial Institutions Fund for financial assistance, training and outreach to Native American, Hawaiian and Alaskan native communities ($100,000,000);

* Indian Health Service information technology and telehealth services ($85,000,000);

* Bureau of Indian Affairs job training and housing improvement programs ($40,000,000);

* Bureau of Indian Affairs - Office of Inspector General ($15,000,000);

* Indian guaranteed loan program ($10,000,000);

* Food distribution program on Indian reservations ($5,000,000).

Link (http://www.politicalbase.com/profile/Mark%20Nickolas/blog/&blogId=6299)

sadaist
02-14-2009, 07:45 PM
just how heartbreaking it is to witness how these Americans are forced to live.

Who exactly is "forcing" these people to live this way?




Frankly, it's impossible to believe that you're standing on United States soil...


That's because it isn't United States soil.





Obama won an enormous share of the vote on the reservations.


How do members of a sovereign nation get to vote for the United States President?






Indian country was not left out and was allocated some modest and long-overdue help.

Modest? $2.42 Billion is considered modest? That's two thousand four hundred and twenty...million. $2,420,000,000.00 Paid by United States taxpayers to non taxpayers.


This money is only going to reservations that DO NOT currently have casinos or do not have pacts with casino operating reservations right?

hideyoursheep
02-14-2009, 09:34 PM
some people are poor because they keep having kids they can't fucking afford...

So, what are you saying?

If someone or both parents lose their job, drive the kids to Nebraska?

hideyoursheep
02-14-2009, 09:40 PM
Man, you have to admit this thing is just hemorrhaging more debt.

There has to be a way to cut the non-essential pork items out somewhere along the line.....I hope.

Status quo won't cut it-these senators and house reps need to forget those back-door deals made with campaign contributors and the like.

:stop:Government-for-hire:stop:

Redballjets88
02-14-2009, 10:00 PM
There has to be a way to cut the non-essential pork items out somewhere along the line.....I hope.

Status quo won't cut it-these senators and house reps need to forget those back-door deals made with campaign contributors and the like.

:stop:Government-for-hire:stop:

the only way to stop gov't for hire is to take away the massive amounts of power we have let them have. The federal government is more powerful now than it has been in the history of this country. If they didn't have their hand in every jar in the nation the there wouldnt be anyone to hire to do dirty work anymore.

hideyoursheep
02-14-2009, 10:13 PM
the only way to stop gov't for hire is to take away the massive amounts of power we have let them have. The federal government is more powerful now than it has been in the history of this country. If they didn't have their hand in every jar in the nation the there wouldnt be anyone to hire to do dirty work anymore.

What?

Redballjets88
02-14-2009, 10:23 PM
the federal government is more powerful than ever intended. If politicians in washington did not have so much power the lobbyist and various groups wouldn't pay them to pass legislation, because the politicians wouldn't be able to help with the bullshit they pass now

hideyoursheep
02-14-2009, 10:26 PM
...That's a little better...

Big Train
02-15-2009, 11:53 AM
The numbers on this thing are just strange.

1. Many of these measures are more protectionist than stimulus (health care, unemployment). I think they need to be addressed, but if the main focus is "getting the economy going again" then the big numbers have to be in things that actually do accomplish that goal.

2. The amount of things that are just busy jobs is amazing, while the actual numbers of items designed to add long term jobs (and their funding) is quite small in comparison.

The following are things I like about the bill (although the numbers I disagree in most cases).


Taxes

First-time homebuyers who purchase their homes before Dec. 1 would be eligible for an $8,000 tax credit, and people who buy new cars before the end of the year can write off the sales taxes.

Those receiving unemployment benefits this year wouldn't pay any federal income taxes on the first $2,400 they receive.

Infrastructure (This will create temp jobs-yes nick, Union jobs, but the 90 Bil down payment is a bit troubling for a major goal of the admin out of an almost 800 bil bill):

Highways repaved for the first time in decades. Century-old waterlines dug up and replaced with new pipes. Aging bridges, stressed under the weight of today's SUVs, reinforced with fresh steel and concrete.

But the $90 billion is a mere down payment on what's needed to repair and improve the country's physical backbone. And not all economists agree it's an effective way to add jobs in the long term, or stimulate the economy.

Energy (these numbers aren't big enough, but the ideas are good):

Homeowners looking to save energy, makers of solar panels and wind turbines and companies hoping to bring the electric grid into the computer age all stand to reap major benefits.

The package contains more than $42 billion in energy-related investments from tax credits to homeowners to loan guarantees for renewable energy projects and direct government grants for makers of wind turbines and next-generation batteries.

There's a 30 percent tax credit of up to $1,500 for the purchase of a highly efficient residential air conditioners, heat pumps or furnaces. The credit also can be used by homeowners to replace leaky windows or put more insulation into the attic. About $300 million would go for rebates to get people to buy efficient appliances.

The package includes $20 billion aimed at "green" jobs to make wind turbines, solar panels and improve energy efficiency in schools and federal buildings. It includes $6 billion in loan guarantees for renewable energy projects as well as tax breaks or direct grants covering 30 percent of wind and solar energy investments. Another $5 billion is marked to help low-income homeowners make energy improvements.

About $11 billion goes to modernize and expand the nation's electric power grid and $2 billion to spur research into batteries for future electric cars.

Schools:

A main goal of education spending in the stimulus bill is to help keep teachers on the job. (the main goal should be modernizing and improving the school, with the idea of keeping on as many teachers as you can. The numbers are out of whack in this regard).

The stimulus sets up a $54 billion fund to help prevent or restore state budget cuts, of which $39 billion must go toward kindergarten through 12th grade and higher education. In addition, about $8 billion of the fund could be used for other priorities, including modernization and renovation of schools and colleges, though how much is unclear, because Congress decided not to specify a dollar figure.

The Education Department will distribute the money as quickly as it can over the next couple of years. (REALLY????)

This money may go out much more slowly; states have five years to spend the dollars, and they have a history of spending them slowly. In fact, states don't spend all the money; they return nearly $100 million to the federal treasury every year.

(they should have a year. If it's about the status quo, they should just not accept it and it should be earmarked for actual tax generating activities, which would fund those schools via normal channels as they should be).

Nickdfresh
02-15-2009, 01:53 PM
the only way to stop gov't for hire is to take away the massive amounts of power we have let them have. The federal government is more powerful now than it has been in the history of this country. If they didn't have their hand in every jar in the nation the there wouldnt be anyone to hire to do dirty work anymore.

Unless Republicans are in power, right?

Redballjets88
02-15-2009, 02:05 PM
Unless Republicans are in power, right?


No, no party, republicans and democrats pretty much do the same shit. They agree on most everything except 5 or 6 issues and claim all the difference in the world.

I can't stand either party, don't like anything they do.

LoungeMachine
02-15-2009, 04:42 PM
the federal government is more powerful than ever intended. If politicians in washington did not have so much power the lobbyist and various groups wouldn't pay them to pass legislation, because the politicians wouldn't be able to help with the bullshit they pass now

WTF are you even talking about?

Lobby reform is one thing, but what the fuck are you talking about when you say the "federal governemenmt is more powerful than ever before" ????

No, it's not. Cite an example with facts for once.

The EXECUTIVE BRANCH has increased their powers, most notable the office of the VPOTUS.

But not the Legistlative Branch, dumbass.


And where was your "federal g'ment outrage" during the RePuke years?


So please, tell us how the federal government has more power than ever before. And be specific.

The more you study, and the less you listen to daddy at the dinner table, the less you'll sound like a rhetorical douche in here.

:gulp:

sadaist
02-15-2009, 04:53 PM
So please, tell us how the federal government has more power than ever before. And be specific.

:gulp:

On the surface you are correct Lounge. However, I would venture to say that behind closed doors members of the government are more powerful than ever intended. This lends itself to crooked politicians, back room deals, lobbyists, special interest groups, unions, etc...

LoungeMachine
02-15-2009, 05:02 PM
On the surface you are correct Lounge. However, I would venture to say that behind closed doors members of the government are more powerful than ever intended. This lends itself to crooked politicians, back room deals, lobbyists, special interest groups, unions, etc...

You just proved my point.

Lobbyists and special interests have UNPRECENDENTED POWER in Washington now, and it's a CRIME how we've allowed legalized bribery.

But that's not what the snot nosed shit who lives off mom and dad said.

And I'm calling him out for it.

The Legistlative Branch is still bound by The Constitution. It's the unregulated [for the most part] Lobbyists that are ruining us.


Case in point:

The asshole who worked for Tom DeLay, who wrote the Medicare Part D bill, which said that the US Government was FORBIDDEN to negotiate with the pharmeceutical companies for lower prices based on bulk purchases, GOT A WAIVER TO GO WORK FOR THE PHARMECEUTICAL COMPANIES as a lobbyist for $1mill a year.


OUTLAW LOBBYISTS.

Plain and simple.

:gulp:

hideyoursheep
02-15-2009, 06:02 PM
OUTLAW LOBBYISTS.

Plain and simple.

:gulp:
There you go.:baaa:

Redballjets88
02-15-2009, 06:20 PM
WTF are you even talking about?

Lobby reform is one thing, but what the fuck are you talking about when you say the "federal governemenmt is more powerful than ever before" ????

No, it's not. Cite an example with facts for once.

The EXECUTIVE BRANCH has increased their powers, most notable the office of the VPOTUS.

But not the Legistlative Branch, dumbass.


And where was your "federal g'ment outrage" during the RePuke years?


So please, tell us how the federal government has more power than ever before. And be specific.

The more you study, and the less you listen to daddy at the dinner table, the less you'll sound like a rhetorical douche in here.

:gulp:

Look at the the constitution and tell me that the federal government isn't more powerful than ever intended.

And I don't listen to anyone, I make my own judgments.

Also go read Ron Paul's book, The Revolution, read the chapter that covers the constitution and learn something new.

And if the Executive branch has gained power, so has the legislative, checks and balances allow for it. And the fact that numerous rights have been taken from the state level and moved to or over ridden by the national government

One example that you would probably like is medical marijuana and the federal government over stepping their constitutional bounds and trying to over rule state laws.

LoungeMachine
02-15-2009, 06:33 PM
One example that you would probably like is medical marijuana and the federal government over stepping their constitutional bounds and trying to over rule state laws.


LMMFAO

:lol:

That's your example of The Federal Government being more powerful?

:lol:

Why not just say you have no idea what you're talking about?

sheesh.

:gulp:

Redballjets88
02-15-2009, 06:39 PM
LMMFAO

:lol:

That's your example of The Federal Government being more powerful?

:lol:

Why not just say you have no idea what you're talking about?

sheesh.

:gulp:

hey look, at least I say something when I post, all you do is bitch, whine, and moan. You really don't know shit other than copy, paste, {insert bush bash}, bitch, moan, repeat. You continuously talk about how smart you are but you never show it. Politics don't really show intellect, just opinions. And to me yours is utterly worthless. Like I have said before FORD and Nick really are the best posters around here when it comes to liberals, because they are able to hold a discussion other than calling someone childish names and nothing more.

LoungeMachine
02-15-2009, 06:47 PM
So, you admit you have no idea what you're talking about.

Thanks for that.

:gulp:

Please stop overcooking the fries.

LoungeMachine
02-15-2009, 06:48 PM
hey look, at least I say something when I post, .


It just happens to be ignorant bullshit pulled from your ass......

But at least you say it.

:lol:

Redballjets88
02-15-2009, 06:52 PM
I already told you where and what you can do to get a good handle on how the fed has overstepped its bounds. read a non liberal biased book, and its also anti republican. check it out, its a quick and good read budster.

and how many times must i tell you my hotel doesn't have fries, if you want burnt popcorn i can get that for ya without problem

LoungeMachine
02-15-2009, 06:59 PM
I already told you where and what you can do to get a good handle on how the fed has overstepped its bounds.


I asked YOU how it has, and you can't answer.

You've proven my point again.

That's nice that the author of said book can back up his claims.

Too bad you can't.

You post shit you don't even understand.

When asked to back up your post, you cite MARIJUANA laws.

:lol:

You're no diofferent than every other teenage know-it-all I've met.

Incapable of backing up the rhetoric they hear, and then parrot.


At least I finally taught you how to post a thread correctly.

:gulp:

Nickdfresh
02-15-2009, 07:03 PM
You just proved my point.

Lobbyists and special interests have UNPRECENDENTED POWER in Washington now, and it's a CRIME how we've allowed legalized bribery.

But that's not what the snot nosed shit who lives off mom and dad said.

And I'm calling him out for it.

The Legistlative Branch is still bound by The Constitution. It's the unregulated [for the most part] Lobbyists that are ruining us.


Case in point:

The asshole who worked for Tom DeLay, who wrote the Medicare Part D bill, which said that the US Government was FORBIDDEN to negotiate with the pharmeceutical companies for lower prices based on bulk purchases, GOT A WAIVER TO GO WORK FOR THE PHARMECEUTICAL COMPANIES as a lobbyist for $1mill a year.


OUTLAW LOBBYISTS.

Plain and simple.

:gulp:

Fucking Aye!

Nickdfresh
02-15-2009, 07:05 PM
hey look, at least I say something when I post, all you do is bitch, whine, and moan. You really don't know shit other than copy, paste, {insert bush bash}, bitch, moan, repeat. You continuously talk about how smart you are but you never show it. Politics don't really show intellect, just opinions. And to me yours is utterly worthless. Like I have said before FORD and Nick really are the best posters around here when it comes to liberals, because they are able to hold a discussion other than calling someone childish names and nothing more.

"...When it comes to Liberals?" I'm the best poster here period, motherfucker! And I'm very humble about it...because nobody is more humble than I am.

LoungeMachine
02-15-2009, 07:09 PM
blueballjets likes you better Nick, because you dont make him post links, or backup his bullshit with facts.......

I'm so jealous.

I want the punk ass bitch who lives off mommy and daddy to like me too. :lol:

Nickdfresh
02-15-2009, 07:29 PM
blueballjets likes you better Nick, because you dont make him post links, or backup his bullshit with facts.......

I'm so jealous.

I want the punk ass bitch who lives off mommy and daddy to like me too. :lol:

Send him a free catalog of your Winger days, Kip!:biggrin:

LoungeMachine
02-15-2009, 08:38 PM
Send him a free catalog of your Winger days, Kip!:biggrin:

bastard.

:tongue0011:

sadaist
02-15-2009, 08:45 PM
You just proved my point.


GOD DAMMIT! I hate when that happens. Ah, fuck you anyways. :biggrin:

GAR
02-15-2009, 11:35 PM
One good thing is that the Original Americans are not being left out of this stimulus package. Some of the worst poverty on this planet is in "Indian Country" :(

What was all that shit about Indian self-reliance, on the TV ads promoting the evils of Gambling - sorry - "Gaming" - as the best thing since sliced gravy?

MOTHERFUCK the Indians. Make 'em give up them casinos luring the parents and grandparents of that Generation of Prosperity to shit away my generation's inheritance.

hideyoursheep
02-16-2009, 02:18 AM
What was all that shit about Indian self-reliance, on the TV ads promoting the evils of Gambling - sorry - "Gaming" - as the best thing since sliced gravy?

MOTHERFUCK the Indians. Make 'em give up them casinos luring the parents and grandparents of that Generation of Prosperity to shit away my generation's inheritance.

Go GARfuck yourself.

hideyoursheep
02-16-2009, 02:28 AM
let me drag you down
'cause we're going to
GARvicki Fields
nothing is real
don't know what the fuck he's talkin 'bout
GArvicki Fields forever...


The more you post, the more I want to start smoking pot again.:stoned-smiley: