Is 80's Hard Rock Cool Again or What??

[Firebrand]

First off, damn, where did this site go for like, what, a year?? Missed y'all, glad it's back.:happy0158:

Man oh man, what a time to be a Halenite AGAIN! The tour rocked, a whole new generation is turned on to the REAL Van Halen, and it sounds like we might actually get new music from the boys. Turn the clock back 24 months...would any of us have believed any of this would have really taken place?:usfl:

I am a high school teacher, and it is amazing to me how much of the rock I grew up with dominates what the kids today listen to. Not to dis the new breed, but really, will anyone be listening to Nickelback 30 years from now? Of course if you had asked me the same question about Ted Nugent, Black Sabbath, Aerosmith, Kiss, Judas Priest, Eagles, Boston, Heart, Pink Floyd, Halen, and Lord knows who else that is still just about as popular as they were in 1980 I would have said the same thing, so who knows?

One of the bands that I still can't get over in reference to their current popularity is Journey. I admit the new CD is good, and Arnel Pineda can sing his butt off, but they are EVERYWHERE it seems.

I guess the 80's really are back. Does that mean 10 years from now grunge will be back too?

Damn, I hope not. :devils:

Anyway, looking forward to hearing more from the REAL Van Halen and seeing what they can come up with...and glad to be back amongst all y'all (that's the plural of y'all, for the non-Southerners here).

[Terry]

Well, I think the best of what the 1980s had to offer in terms of rock never became uncool, as it were.

However, for me, nostalgia doesn't somehow erase or make cooler in retrospect bands that were lame to me back in the day, either. Bon Jovi, Poison and all the other posers that seemed to leap out of the woodwork right around 1985 do not have timeless qualities just because a couple of decades have elapsed (outside of being eternally lame, that is).

[binnie]

Well, I think the best of what the 1980s had to offer in terms of rock never became uncool, as it were.

However, for me, nostalgia doesn't somehow erase or make cooler in retrospect bands that were lame to me back in the day, either. Bon Jovi, Poison and all the other posers that seemed to leap out of the woodwork right around 1985 do not have timeless qualities just because a couple of decades have elapsed (outside of being eternally lame, that is).

This is true.

There were some fuckin' awful 80s bands. Grunge happened for a reason.

[Panamark]

Pure shit gets flushed and forgotten...

I think every generation has kids that look beyond
the corporate crap they are being force fed.
These kids carry the torch. You cant kill good rock
and roll. Its etched in time. The seekers will always
find it.

[Satan]

Every decade has its gold and its shit. Van HALEN vs Van Hagar, for example.

[scottydabodi]

Any questions on whether hard rock is back need only to see the success of the Van Halen tour, AC/DC's latest cd sales(about 3 million), and check out how many kids younger than 15 are playing "Sweet Child o' Mine" at your local guitar shop on a saturday morning... Looks good, but when it breaks huge like 1984, then I'll be impressed.

[Terry]

Every decade has its gold and its shit. Van HALEN vs Van Hagar, for example.

Satan is always right.

[Firebrand]

...I wonder if the timelessness of that period of rock (along with the 70's and much of the 60's as well) is rooted in the innovation heard on the guitar as much as the talent of the bands themselves. We were simply hearing things we had never heard before, with themes and such explored in ways we had never even imagined. Then along came VH, and really, there just weren't many roads to go down that hadn't already been travelled.

It's almost like after 1984 (the album and the year), everything kind of became a retread until grunge hit. Maybe. I dunno :umm:

Does that make sense?

[ForeverDLR/VH]

It's great to see there are some Kids today, that don't let "Popular culture" dominate what they listen to and what kind of music they download or buy. You got so many Talentless music today, such as Hanna Montana, Jonnes brothers and most Rappers, which don’t even care about the music and just in it for the Money! I went to high school in the mid 90’s and while most everyone else listened to Rap and Grunge, I listen to Van Halen, Def Leppard, Led Zeppelin.

[Firebrand]

...is that while there are some great musicians out there today, the fact of the matter is unlike the 70's and early 80's, today the 'packaging' matters more than the package, if you get my drift. If you look good and your image can be sold, that matters more than whether or not you can actually sing or play an instrument.

I love technology, and I think that a lot of what has happened with digital recording and virtual amps for guitars and such is great.

BUT, I think it has all but killed the true, raw spirit of rock...and that's why those pioneers amongst us that still survive are so appealing.

[Terry]

...I wonder if the timelessness of that period of rock (along with the 70's and much of the 60's as well) is rooted in the innovation heard on the guitar as much as the talent of the bands themselves. We were simply hearing things we had never heard before, with themes and such explored in ways we had never even imagined. Then along came VH, and really, there just weren't many roads to go down that hadn't already been travelled.

It's almost like after 1984 (the album and the year), everything kind of became a retread until grunge hit. Maybe. I dunno :umm:

Does that make sense?

Well, in terms of the US rock scene, I think around 1985 what happened was a bunch of record companies went out and signed up a bunch of sheep in wolves clothing.

By that, I mean that a lot of the stuff that was pushed hard commercially by the record companies and MTV that was considered hard rock or heavy metal by the layperson was really a bunch of bands with pop sensibilities using guitars instead of synths and dressing the part (heavy on the spandex and big hair). Even older groups like KISS got into the act.

A lot of these groups took their cues from Van Halen, but just in terms of stylistics rather than substance. It explains a group like Bon Jovi, who wore the stereotypical rock clothes, had the stereotypical rock guitar crunch, but with songs, melody lines and lyrics full of trite and cliched sappy love song lyrics.

Rock music...popular rock music at any rate...became very formulaic around 1985. The genre became so inbred and image conscious, with commercial considerations outweighing musical content...it really collapsed upon itself. Grunge just put that brand of spandex rock pretty much out of its misery.

Pantera were one of the few hard rock/heavy metal bands to emerge in the 1990s that had any credibility for me. Assclowns like Posion and Bon Jovi never had any credibility for me to begin with.

To me (and this may just be waxing bullshit), and band like CVH pretty much did what they wanted to in terms of creating the music and let the record company take it from there, as opposed to many bands that followed, which let the record company assign them songwriters and took charge of the band in the creative aspects.

[ELVIS]

Any questions on whether hard rock is back need only to see the success of the Van Halen tour, AC/DC's latest cd sales(about 3 million)

People didn't buy van Halen tickets based on how good the performances were, they bought them to see Dave And Eddie together, and possibly the trainwreck...

On a scale of one to ten, I give it a three...

Dave was great - beyond my expectations...

Edward (compared to the old Eddie) sucked...

Alex was ok, besides omitting the more difficult passages and beats...

Wolf was a joke who had no business being up there, at least at that point...

And I hope you're reading this Wolf, because from your perspective there's no way you can understand the emotion of a true fan who grew up on this awesome music...

So, my advice to you is to ignore your father's input, learn those songs like never before and realize the opportunity you have sitting in your lap...

And I hope you get along with Dave, otherwise all bets are off...



:elvis:

[Firebrand]

...but I'd give the show I saw around a 8.

Dave was great. Very impressive. He was actually singing (all the words, too!:hitch:), didn't try to overdo the vocals or the physical part of the show. Great showman.

Eddie blew me away. A MASSIVE improvement over what I've seen from him in the last 15 years. He finally, finally, finally went back to his old-school tone, which of course is now new again.

Alex was his solid self. Maybe the most underrated drummer in rock history.

Wolfie? Lord knows, put yourself in his shoes. You talk about being in the bullseye. But you know, the kid did ok. He could have folded just as easily as excelled, and I think he came closer to the better end of that spectrum than the other. Thank God he did, because if he hadn't done as well as he did, the tour wouldn't have been postponed, it would have been history.

Let's just put it this way - the reunion would never have happened without him, so I am willing to give him a mulligan on any glaring weaknesses musically. But there is no denying how much Eddie enjoyed playing up there with him, and as a dad I can relate. One day Wolf will look back on it as the highlight of his life, and maybe the highlight of his dad's life, too. Maybe, just maybe, the single thing that had a chance of getting the greatest rock guitarist ever back on the path of being the greatest rock guitarist ever. Given all that, Wolfie gets a thumbs up from me. :happy0158:

No, he wasn't Michael Anthony, but if he had been, the reunion of Ed/Dave would be something all of us would still be wishing for. In other words, without the Wolfboy it never happens.

[ELVIS]

Wolf was NOT playing or singing everything you hearing, period...


:elvis:

[Terry]

People didn't buy van Halen tickets based on how good the performances were, they bought them to see Dave And Eddie together, and possibly the trainwreck...

On a scale of one to ten, I give it a three...

Dave was great - beyond my expectations...

Edward (compared to the old Eddie) sucked...

Alex was ok, besides omitting the more difficult passages and beats...

Wolf was a joke who had no business being up there, at least at that point...

And I hope you're reading this Wolf, because from your perspective there's no way you can understand the emotion of a true fan who grew up on this awesome music...

So, my advice to you is to ignore your father's input, learn those songs like never before and realize the opportunity you have sitting in your lap...

And I hope you get along with Dave, otherwise all bets are off...



:elvis:

Would agree with most of that, although I was hoping the band would perform a show that knocked it out of the park and not a meltdown. What I got was something inbetween. Fair enough, the draw of Ed and Dave was the key point of interest, but I wasn't paying $100 a ticket in hopes of seeing Ed or the band deliver a shit performance.

The whole "Wolfie biz" is something that was pretty much relegated to the back of my mind when seeing the show - I paid Wolfie slightly less attention than I paid to Mike when I saw the band all those years ago, concentrating probably 40% of the time on Eddie, 40% of the time on Dave, 15% on Alex, 2 % on Wolfie and 3% on all the milfs in the audience. It was hard to even make out Wolfie in the mix because the drums, guitars and lead vocals were dominating the sound, so I couldn't even say if the kid was miming it or not.

[Firebrand]

...is that if there were no Wolfie, there is no Van Halen tour in 2007. I'll give up a few canned vocals or bass lines for that.

I think we all believed that Michael Anthony was the weakest link in the chain that was real Van Halen. I can stomach seeing Dave, Al, and Eddie together without him...but remove Eddie? Al? Dave? It just would not work. Wolfie, in essence, saved The Trinity we all viewed as the essence of Van Halen.

At this point, sans said youngun, VH is DOA.

[scottydabodi]

I paid the big money to see Classic Van Halen tunes played LIVE. Not by Dave's band, but by Ed, Dave, and Al. I could care less than 2 shits about Wolfie, but what are ya gonna do? Sit around and pretend that Eddie sucked on the last tour, when it was his best playing since '84? That's just because you're mad about M.A., and the fact that it isn't 1981 anymore. I would've liked to have seen Mikey there, but I ain't losin no sleep over what that fucking ASSCLOWN is doing.

The show I saw was very good, and Ed played very good. Was it like 1981? No. Was it better than I expected? YES. Eddie rocked hard, and played his ass off, Alex was quite good, and remarkably solid. Dave was fantastic. Wolf can't sing, but played bass as well as Orangutang Anthony could. Piped in vocals? SO FUCKING WHAT. They played, sounded, and looked great. Solid 7.

[Julius]

Wolf was NOT playing or singing everything you hearing, period...


:elvis:

True, I'm pretty sure they used tapes of Mike's BG vocals. It would not suprise me if Wolf was playing along to a tape as well...

[hideyoursheep]

We'll see..

If they put anything new together, it's gonna be hard for them to pipe in Mike's vocals/basslines.

Give it a couple more years-that's how fast VH moves.


On the popularity of '80's rock....

Up until the cookie cutter safe-for-MTV hair bands saturated the scene by 91, I'd call it the greatest period for hard guitar oriented rock.

The kids (or young adults) today are aware of today's musical inferiority and for the most part, stick with what's good....which happens to be what we grew up with.

Exibit A: If today's rock darlings Nickelsuck were as good as the media wished they were, this would never happen...
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:lmao:

"...do you wanna hear some rock n roll..."

:rolleyes:

Yeah SpamTwin, that's WHY you're getting bombed!

[Panamark]

I wonder if they got their full payment that night ?
If yes, that was a cushy gig....

Probably best for everyone...

They would have had to hand out portugese lyric sheets
with song numbers so the people would have known
which song it was.... (Coz all Nickelback songs sound
the fooken same !!)

[GAR]

Wolf was NOT playing or singing everything you hearing, period...


:elvis:

According to youtube, Mike Anthony's on these VH tourdates, but I look everywhere and.. I just don't see him. Why is that, I dunno. Odd>

[Golden AWe]

Am I the only one who misread the title "Is 80's Hard cock cool again?"

"So guys with mullets and sleeveless jeans jackets are scoring like never before?"

[hideyoursheep]

Am I the only one who misread the title "Is 80's Hard cock cool again?"


I thought it said, "80 year-old hard cock won't get fooled again".

[Seshmeister]

True, I'm pretty sure they used tapes of Mike's BG vocals. It would not suprise me if Wolf was playing along to a tape as well...

There were taped backing vocals but not with Mike Anthony on them.

[ForeverDLR/VH]

The reunion tour was great!!!

I couldn’t have given a shit of MA or wolf was the base player. The main thing I gave a shit about and what 98&#37; of the fans paid the big money to see were Dave and Ed on the same stage for the first time in 25 years.

I’m happy to get the chance to see the “REAL” VH live, since I’m 30 and didn’t get the chance to see them in the early 80’s! Fuck I was only 7 when they broke up. I hope this isn’t it; they need to hit the road again and even get into the studio and record a new album.

[Coyote]

There were taped backing vocals but not with Mike Anthony on them.

As per the standards of "live performances" today...

Most bands today have canned backing vocals, for some silly thing called "the audience wants perfection".

Which is bullshit. The bands are just too fuckin' lazy to practice singing...

[hideyoursheep]

Well, I don't know about you, but I can't sing and play at the same time-but I never canned anything, either..

I have "stupid fingers". :biggrin:

[Firebrand]

...that was one thing that really really really hacked me off with the Eagles on their Farewell I tour...I paid $150 a ticket and got canned background vocals. I swore I'd never pay to see them again after that.

I would rather hear a band try and miss it than coward out and use a prerecorded track. I can listen to a CD in my truck - I came to hear a LIVE performance.

[Coyote]

I would rather hear a band try and miss it than coward out and use a prerecorded track. I can listen to a CD in my truck - I came to hear a LIVE performance.

Right on the money.

[scottydabodi]

I saw Iron Maiden live, and there were no canned vocals... Oh, right! Bruce Dickinson is a REAL SINGER. Come to think of it, I saw Heaven and Hell, and Dio had no canned vocals. Do I see a trend here? Real singers don't need any help? Dio's fuckin 70 years old, and sings his goddamn ass off every night. Wolfie needs Dio & Dickinson to show him what's up.

As far as 80's hard rock goes, good! I'm glad to see some real kick ass rock music out there and turning heads. That band that opened for AC/DC on the recent tour was great. They're called The Answer... I hope they do more kick ass shit, and don't wimp out, like I've seen so many other bands do.

[Terry]

...that was one thing that really really really hacked me off with the Eagles on their Farewell I tour...I paid $150 a ticket and got canned background vocals. I swore I'd never pay to see them again after that.

I would rather hear a band try and miss it than coward out and use a prerecorded track. I can listen to a CD in my truck - I came to hear a LIVE performance.


Yeah, there's just no excuse for musical performers miming to prerecorded shit in a live performance in my book.

The sad part is it has been happening for so long and so often now that people in general just fucking accept it.

Pathetic. They're like "yeah, well, everybody does it these days, so what?"

With a passive attitude like that so pervasive regarding quality standards in entertainment, is it any wonder so much of what is on tv, in the movies, on records and onstage is such shit these days?

The fact that people shell out money and spend their time flocking to see things that shoot for the lowest common denominator in terms of ambition...well, we get what we deserve in the end, don't we?

[Firebrand]

....and I know this first hand from my own experience.

Every now and then you come across some kind of guitar prodigy that blows you away when they are 12-13 years old. But how many rock singers can you think of at the same age who you viewed similarly?

Vocals are, quite simply, normally the last thing that develops when you think of rock. I know that was the case with me - I could play Eruption and all of Matthias Jabs' licks when I was 17...but ask me to REALLY sing a song?? I was SOL.

Eric Clapton comes to mind. While his chops ain't what they once were, the man's voice has become rich, full, and downright impressive. Crap, I really think I can say the same for David Lee. I think he SUNG better on the last tour than I may have ever heard him. Again, vocal maturation, not screaming mind you, but purity of voice, comes with years of practice.

And that may be what you have with Wolfie. Sure, there may have been a few canned vocals in there, but I'd be willing to bet you that as time goes along his voice will improve more than his playing will.

There are a lot of kids who could play Van Halen's bass parts (really, they ain't that hard). But I don't know if I know of any who can carry those harmonies, not because they aren't any good, but because they are simply young.

[scottydabodi]

....and I know this first hand from my own experience.

Every now and then you come across some kind of guitar prodigy that blows you away when they are 12-13 years old. But how many rock singers can you think of at the same age who you viewed similarly?

Vocals are, quite simply, normally the last thing that develops when you think of rock. I know that was the case with me - I could play Eruption and all of Matthias Jabs' licks when I was 17...but ask me to REALLY sing a song?? I was SOL.

Eric Clapton comes to mind. While his chops ain't what they once were, the man's voice has become rich, full, and downright impressive. Crap, I really think I can say the same for David Lee. I think he SUNG better on the last tour than I may have ever heard him. Again, vocal maturation, not screaming mind you, but purity of voice, comes with years of practice.

And that may be what you have with Wolfie. Sure, there may have been a few canned vocals in there, but I'd be willing to bet you that as time goes along his voice will improve more than his playing will.

There are a lot of kids who could play Van Halen's bass parts (really, they ain't that hard). But I don't know if I know of any who can carry those harmonies, not because they aren't any good, but because they are simply young.

Trying to find a GREAT rock singer today is fucking impossible. In 1988 there were millions of them. WTF is THAT all about?? That was why grunge was great? So we'd have no great singer/frontmen, and no great guitar heroes??? The only great singers I see anywhere are dudes my age who have been singing since the 70's, are married with 5 kids, and work at the gas station. I remember spending 1 hour of rehearsal, 3 times a week, just on backing vocals, now bands don't even HAVE backing vocals -let alone GOOD VOCALS at ALL!! If a singer comes in to me, and he can't sing some Zeppelin tunes right on, he's FIRED.

[Firebrand]

...it's because singers have become too dependent on technology to make them what they are.

You have automatic pitch shifters now that can compensate for flat or sharp notes...or voices are doubled or something to help compensate for whatever weakness of the vocalist.

Basically, I think most modern rock singers suck because they aren't willing to push themselves the way the old masters did. Why? I don't know. Such are the times in which we live, I suppose.

[ForeverDLR/VH]

Well, lots of today's rock is screaming and strumming of the guitar and it doesn't seem like, they’re anymore. All Pop "Popular Culture" music is looks and corporate greed, which is telling teens (if you don't listen to this or buy that your not cool) and your better hope your looks don't go, other wise your fucked. Just look at Britney Spears!

Don't even get me started on Rap or hip hop.

[binnie]

They're called The Answer... I hope they do more kick ass shit, and don't wimp out, like I've seen so many other bands do.

They kick major ass.

They have two records:

'Rise'

'Everyday Demons' (due out next month in the UK, not sure about the US)

[binnie]

There has always been, and will always be, GREAT music being made. You just have to search for it.

When people complain about modern music, they mean what they hear on the radio, or see on MTV. That's bound to be generic fluff, and I don't want to rip those rose-tinted spectacles off too harshly but most of what has been played on the radio since the 80s is utterly disposable corporate pop/rock.

There are always great bands. However, you have to accept that they won't sound like the bands you grew up listening too - how tragic would it be if things never moved on? Were modern bands to try and re-create Sunset Strip circa 1982, it would inevitably sound like a pastiche, because they weren't there.

But if you're prepared to accept newer sounds, you will always find great bands, writing great songs. Plenty of good rock/metal bands out there peeps.

[Firebrand]

What bands out there today have a unique sound that distinguishes them from any number of other bands out there today?