Fender loses guitar copyright case

[CSM]

Fender loses guitar copyright case (http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/fender-loses-guitar-copyright-case-201886)

[ELVIS]

Dude, figure out how to post the article, not just the link...


:elvis:

[CSM]

Dude, figure out how to post the article, not just the link...


:elvis:

Most sites don't allow you to re-post their material since it is copyrighted hence just a link.

[sadaist]

Most sites don't allow you to re-post their material since it is copyrighted hence just a link.

Fuck it, I'll do it. They can come after me directly if they're upset. I've got $145.63 in my savings account currently...have at it.



"The Stratocaster body outline is so common that it is depicted as a generic electric guitar in a dictionary"

Outline is "generic electric guitar"

Michael Leonard, Tue 31 Mar 2009, 2:45 pm BST

Guitar makers Fender have lost an application to make its Stratocaster, Telecaster and Precision guitar body shapes a trademark in the USA.

Similar applications have previously been rejected, both in the UK and the rest of Europe.

In the court case, Fender had targeted the designs of Stuart Spector Designs, US Music Corporation, ESP Guitars, Sadowsky Guitars, Lakland Musical Instruments, Peavey Electronics, Warmoth Guitar Products, Schecter Guitar Research, Michael Tobias and others as infringing its designs.

But the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board of the United States Patent and Trademark Office said:

"Fender refers to the 'iconic' status of these [instrument] outlines in American popular culture. However, we must resolve a narrow issue: Do consumers associate these two-dimensional outlines, depicted in the drawings, as indicators of source?"

5 years wait

The litigation has lasted five years and included over 20,000 pages of evidence demonstrating countless companies who have sold guitars that use the body shapes that Fender sought to trademark

"The applicant has not established acquired distinctiveness such that these two-dimensional outlines of guitar bodies, standing alone, serve to indicate source," the TTAB concluded. "The evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that these configurations are so common in the industry that they cannot identify source.

"In fact, in the case of the [Stratocaster] body outline, this configuration is so common that it is depicted as a generic electric guitar in a dictionary.

This is a Fender
http://mos.musicradar.com/images/Product%20News/Guitar/mar09/fender-copyright/strat1-460-100-460-70.jpg

This is not a Fender
http://mos.musicradar.com/images/Product%20News/Guitar/mar09/fender-copyright/crafter-460-100-460-70.jpg

Fender loses guitar copyright case | musicradar.com (http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/fender-loses-guitar-copyright-case-201886)

USPTO TTABVUE. Proceeding Number 91161403 (http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=91161403&pty=OPP&eno=246)

[ELVIS]

Bullshit!

On top of that, the link you sent me before and this link does not work...


:elvis:

[sadaist]

I always wondered how all these Strat copies could be made legally. Kinda lame for Fender since it is their design. The problem is this lawsuit is 30 years too late.

[ELVIS]

And I can tell that second image of a guitar is NOT a Fender in a second!


:elvis:

[ELVIS]

I always wondered how all these Strat copies could be made legally. Kinda lame for Fender since it is their design. The problem is this lawsuit is 30 years too late.

That's true...

[sadaist]

And I can tell that second image of a guitar is NOT a Fender in a second!


:elvis:

Really? Not me. I'm not that good with telling unless it's the headstock shape. The body in those pics look the same to me. The only difference I see other than the Rosewood vs. Maple fingerboard is the Fenders neck is rounded slightly at the end while the copy's neck is cut straight/flat across.

[sadaist]

Wait...is it the pickup config? Doesn't Fender make some models like the one in the 2nd pic?

[ELVIS]

I can tell by the wood, the placement of the pickguard screws, the pickguard itself, the body shape, the bridge and the saddles, etc...

I KNOW Fender when I see it...


:elvis:

[ELVIS]

BTW, the "Fender" pictured looks to be a Made in Mexico Strat and not an authentic American version...

[sadaist]

I can tell by the wood, the placement of the pickguard screws, the pickguard itself, the body shape, the bridge and the saddles, etc...

I KNOW Fender when I see it...


:elvis:


Nice. My eye isn't that trained. I only see the differences I stated above. But then I could never even find all the missing stuff on the back of my Capt. Crunch cereal box either.

[ELVIS]

In fact, I know it is...

[sadaist]

On a side note...both of those pics are better than what I'm currently playing.:biggrin:

[ELVIS]

I could easily find the stuff on the Capt. Crunch box...:D

[ELVIS]

On a side note...both of those pics are better than what I'm currently playing.:biggrin:

What are you playing ??

[Diamondjimi]

And I can tell that second image of a guitar is NOT a Fender in a second!


:elvis:

You have a gift for the obvious....:rolleyes:

Other than the fact that it says it not a "real Strat" , enlighten us with a few facts and details regarding how to spot a copy...

[ELVIS]

I just did, dumbfuck...

[Diamondjimi]

I can tell by the wood, the placement of the pickguard screws, the pickguard itself, the body shape, the bridge and the saddles, etc...

I KNOW Fender when I see it...


:elvis:

Whoops ,missed that one.


I just did, dumbfuck...

You kiss your priest with that mouth? Sheesh! :rolleyes:

:handjob:

[CSM]

Bullshit!

On top of that, the link you sent me before and this link does not work...


:elvis:

Must be something with your browser maybe?:confused11:

here's the other link again:

W.H. team discloses TARP firm ties - Kenneth P. Vogel - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/20889.html)

W.H. team discloses TARP firm ties

Thomas E. Donilon, Obama’s deputy national security adviser, was paid $3.9 million last year by the power law firm O’Melveny & Myers to represent clients, including two firms that received federal bailout funds: Citigroup and Goldman Sachs. He also disclosed that he’s a member of the Trilateral Commission and sits on the steering committee of the supersecret Bilderberg group.

[CSM]

Fuck it, I'll do it. They can come after me directly if they're upset. I've got $145.63 in my savings account currently...have at it.



actually i was more worried about this site getting a notice and having problems.

[sadaist]

actually i was more worried about this site getting a notice and having problems.

Nah, as long as the link and proper credits are shown it's usually fine. But can't fault you for worrying and taking the safe road.

[ELVIS]

Images are more suceptable to problems, but if you link an article to it's appropriate source we should be ok...

[jhale667]

Fender going after Warmoth, a company they've previously granted a license to produce accurate after-market copies of their designs? Speaking of dumbfucks, no wonder the case got laughed out of court.

Cool, so I can still get exact Fender (and Charvel) neck and body copies from Warmoth and Musikraft for the foreseeable future. Life's good.


:guitar:

[jhale667]

BTW, the "Fender" pictured looks to be a Made in Mexico Strat and not an authentic American version...


Looks like a Mexi and a Squier, in order of appearance.

[sadaist]

What are you playing ??

I have a Fender Squier Bullet Strat, a Hondo strat copy from the early 80's, a Suzuki acoustic, and a Les Paul Pee Wee. I used to have a BC Rich Warlock, but sold it. I did put a Bill Lawrence humbucker in the Hondo, but other than that everything is stock. Just a hack player, but I have fun with 'em. And I really like looking at the expensive guitars you guys post here from your collections. So far my fav is one from Sarge. It's green, but the color is called aged pelham blue.

But my two "dream" guitars would be a real American Stratocaster in red and a Gibson Explorer in white. Just don't play enough to plunk down over $1,000. If I ever got one of them, I'd want it to be new.

[ELVIS]

Looks like a Mexi and a Squier, in order of appearance.

No, it's not a Squier with that sqared off neck and that bridge, or the wood for that matter...

Some Chinese crap copy...

[ELVIS]

But my two "dream" guitars would be a real American Stratocaster in red and a Gibson Explorer in white. Just don't play enough to plunk down over $1,000. If I ever got one of them, I'd want it to be new.

Well, overall, i've probably spent a good $25,000 on guitars and equipment and almost never bought anything new...


:elvis:

[Panamark]

I think this sucks for fender, the strat shape especially.
If EVH can trademark freakin stripes on a strat, how can fender not win this for the actual guitar ??

As for copyright and linking, as I uderstand it, its ok to repost the article
as long as you list the source. I always post the article and link.

[twonabomber]

If EVH can trademark freakin stripes on a strat, how can fender not win this for the actual guitar ??

i'm no lawyer, but i think that Fender waiting "x" amount of years before they started trying to protect their "intellectual property" can be seen as being okay with others copying the design. had they been hard-asses from day one they'd have a better claim on the design.

[Coyote]

Fender's just pissed off that someone other than Fender is trying to refine the wheel...

[Panamark]

They need a different law firm I reckon....

Guitar manufacturers even use their name when
describing the product...

[Panamark]

" This is our Fender based model... blah blah"

[Panamark]

They should at the very least have full rights over the names
"strat" or "stratocaster". Yeah they waited too long, but
what about governments giving land title to natives
from 40,000 years ago ?? (aboriginies in Oz for example)
Seems time can be overcome in the courts...

[ELVIS]

They do have rights over their names and models...

[degüello]

And I can tell that second image of a guitar is NOT a Fender in a second!

Wow, that's incredible. What an amazing ability.

[ELVIS]

Thankya, thankya verymuch...


:elvis:

[jhale667]

No, it's not a Squier with that sqared off neck and that bridge, or the wood for that matter...

Some Chinese crap copy...


Could be...but for the record, I've seen Chinese made Squiers. Late '90s-early '00s...

[jhale667]

I think this sucks for fender, the strat shape especially.
If EVH can trademark freakin stripes on a strat, how can fender not win this for the actual guitar ??



Problem is, they've been allowing people to copy the Strat, Tele, P and J bass bodies and necks for decades (again, in some cases exactly, period-specific contours, etc.)...not like it's some new design they want to clamp down on.
The licensed manufacturers can even do period-specific headstocks.

20 years later they want everyone to stop? Including suppliers Fender themselves have outsourced parts from on occasion? Uh, no...(crosses fingers) :D

[Panamark]

I didnt know Fender had given outright permission to these other guys.
In that case, why the fuck are they wasting their money in court ?

[jhale667]

I didnt know Fender had given outright permission to these other guys.
In that case, why the fuck are they wasting their money in court ?

My thoughts exactly. They let a few manufacturers (Warmoth and Musikraft spring to mind) basically build a cottage industry making accurate replica/replacement parts, and then they want to pull the plug why - because it got successful? :rolleyes:

[GAR]

My thoughts exactly. They let a few manufacturers (Warmoth and Musikraft spring to mind) basically build a cottage industry making accurate replica/replacement parts, and then they want to pull the plug why - because it got successful? :rolleyes:

Propagating this yarn that Fender allowed others to copy their designs is not proper.

[BrownSound1]

I thought the Fender license to companies like Warmoth and Allparts was giving them permission to manufacture Fender type headstocks on their replacement necks.

[Nickdfresh]

Most sites don't allow you to re-post their material since it is copyrighted hence just a link.

Why not? Google does. :D


I think if you post four para's or less, then link the rest, you're/we're safe.

[jhale667]

How did I miss this jackassery...:rolleyes:


Propagating this yarn that Fender allowed others to copy their designs is not proper.

Funny, GARgle/GimpyChump, my Warmoth necks say "licensed by Fender" on the butts...you'd think if I was "improperly propagating" info and that were NOT the case, Fender might have possibly... won said lawsuit....jackass?


Just sayin'. :hee:

[GAR]

BTW, the "Fender" pictured looks to be a Made in Mexico Strat and not an authentic American version...

The only telltale difference between a USA strat and a Mexico one is there are usually 3 pinrouted circle spots under the pickguard.

If you see these odd coinshaped, do-nothing spots 1/4" inch deep, it's not a USA body.

They are dimensionally identical except for that, as are the HAAS vertical cnc machining centers that mill them from blanks both here and down where they export from.

[GAR]

I thought the Fender license to companies like Warmoth and Allparts was giving them permission to manufacture Fender type headstocks on their replacement necks.

Also the cutaway profile on the bodies as described from midbout-to-midbout clockwise from left to right.

FMIC would have had a case if they didn't aggressively seek to impune strat-makers less dissimilar than 1/4" off-distanced from the original template.

The Peavey Predator is a good example of designing a copy "just close enough". IMO that design is a clear case of riding the fence on being intentionally dissimilar because both the neck and the body are quite dissimilar from the original Strat.

Also, every part on the guitar is different from the Strat. You cant even get away with interchanging a neck, a body nor even the standard trem bridge - I put a Peavey strat bridge on a Harmony body, and first of all two of the six mounting screws are missing but NONE of those screw holes is mounted in the same place to line up on a non-Peavey - good on Hartley Peavey for that!

[jhale667]

But then, who wants a fucking Peavey, much less the parts? Y'know, besides you? :rolleyes:

Hmm....Looks like Fender licensees still get to replicate past and current offerings...

https://www.musikraft.com/product-info.php?pid164.html

https://www.musikraft.com/avactis-images/DSCF6112.JPG

https://www.musikraft.com/product-info.php?pid158.html

http://www.musikraft.com/avactis-images/DSCF3207.JPG

:tongue0011:

[CSM]

I think that this case and the Fender price rise go hand in hand. By that I mean I think Fender thought they were going to win this case therefore taking all of their "strat" competition (pre made or parts) off the market or jacking up their license fees to a point were their competitors couldn't afford the fee outright or leaving the profit margins too thin to continue therefore leaving everyone with one choice in their newly higher priced product.

[jhale667]

I think that this case and the Fender price rise go hand in hand. By that I mean I think Fender thought they were going to win this case therefore taking all of their "strat" competition (pre made or parts) off the market or jacking up their license fees to a point were their competitors couldn't afford the fee outright or leaving the profit margins too thin to continue therefore leaving everyone with one choice in their newly higher priced product.

Well if that's the case, glad it didn't work out for them...I need some more necks and bodies...:hee:

[GAR]

You need a set of decent G12M-25's before that!

[jhale667]

You need a set of decent G12M-25's before that!

Stop obsessing over my gear, weirdo! :tongue0011:

[GAR]

Steel sharpens steel.. I'm pushing you for better tone.