Hbo: Thrilla in manila

[Matt White]

Just watched HBO's THRILLA IN MANILA again this weekend...several times....

have to say...it's truly awesome...really takes you back to the 70's and the GRATEST rivalry in boxing history....

Man...does Smokin' Joe hate Ali or what?!? LMAO

"Float like a butter fly,
Sting like a bee,
I'm the man who done the job, he knows,
Look and see" Joe Frazier

[chefcraig]

I still haven't seen this yet. How does it compare to When We Were Kings, Matt?

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Even more amazing once you realize that Joe was already partially blind in his left eye from that training accident in '64....

Having lived in the Philippines for 3+ years, I can imagine what it must've been like to fight at 10 in the morning in that place....

[binnie]

Yup, it's a great documentary.

It really makes you realize how personal it had become - neither guy NEEDED to take that fight, they were already full of acclaim and were both in the twliight of their careers. It was grudge, plain and simple.

Ali, for all of his diminished mobility, fought like he couldn't be beaten that night. Both guys took a beating, but how Frazier lasted that long I'll never know.

[Matt White]

I still haven't seen this yet. How does it compare to When We Were Kings, Matt?

It's even better CC....if that is possible....

I just read a quote today....where ALi says to Frazier after he began to get pounded....

ALI : "Old Joe Frazier...why I thought you was all washed up!"

JOE: "Somebody told you wrong, pretty boy!"

Really...ALI wanted to call it quits before the 15th...and his corner wouldn't let him....JOE wanted to fight on...even if it caused him further injury...& his corner threw in the towel because Eddie Futch wouldn't let his guy die in the ring...he said he had witnessed 8 other fighters die.....

[kwame k]

Jesus, never knew the back story on this one. Amazing!

[Matt White]

Even more amazing once you realize that Joe was already partially blind in his left eye from that training accident in '64....

That's the part that just amazed me....the guy had been fighting for more than a decade with one good eye...& had become World Champion.....my respect for Smokin' Joe just went thru the roof.....

[Seshmeister]

Frazier definitely comes out on top in that documentary as the more decent guy.

Big interview: Joe Frazier | Sport | The Guardian

In 1967, having embraced Islam and changed his name from Cassius Clay, Muhammad Ali refused to fight in the Vietnam war. "I will face machine-gun fire before denouncing Elijah Muhammad and the religion of Islam," he insisted. "I'm ready to die." As the reigning heavyweight champion of the world, and at the height of his dazzling powers, Ali was stripped of both his title and his licence to box.

Broke and vilified, Ali started calling Frazier, his eventual replacement as world champion. "He'd be phoning every other day to say, 'You got my title, man! You got to let me fight you!'" As he repeats that plea Frazier slips into an impersonation which sounds less like Ali in his fast-talking pomp than his old foe after Parkinson's disease had made his speech slurred and halting. "I said, 'OK, I'll see what I can do.'

"I went to see President Nixon at the White House. It wasn't difficult to get a meeting because I was heavyweight champion of the world. So I came to Washington and walked around the garden with Nixon, his wife and daughter. I said: 'I want you to give Ali his licence back. I want to beat him up for you.' Nixon said, 'Sure, I'd like that.' He knew what he was doing and so Ali got his licence back."

Ali had been in exile from the ring for three years before Frazier's intervention in 1970. Did Ali thank him? "I don't remember. Maybe he did - but I doubt it. I was just happy he got his licence back so I could clean him out."

Frazier had also given Ali money, but that did not stop the sudden animosity which welled up in the returning hero. Ali was initially amusing. "Joe Frazier is too ugly to be champ. He can't talk. He can't box. He can't dance. He can't do no shuffle and he writes no poems."

But the joking soon stopped. "Joe Frazier is an Uncle Tom," Ali ranted. "He works for the enemy."

Joe's son, Marvis, winces on the sofa opposite his father and me. "I used to get beat up every day at school by guys who would say, 'Your dad's a Tom'. It was terrible."

[High Life Man]

Rent "Tyson". I think it came out last week.

It's fascinating. The man is absolutely batshit insane, but you come away feeling really bad for him.

[chefcraig]

Rent "Tyson". I think it came out last week.

It's fascinating. The man is absolutely batshit insane, but you come away feeling really bad for him.

I just read the review of that film in Rolling Stone over the weekend, and have seen excerpts of the project over the past few months. While a good film, it simply can not compare to the HBO film being discussed, nor When We Were Kings. The Tyson story is indeed compelling, and is a standard for what it does, yet it lacks the historical (as well as cultural) significance being played out here. Mike Tyson's story was/is a tragedy and a warning. These stories have a reach that is far more profound.

[High Life Man]

I wasn't comparing. I haven't seen the HBO doc.

They do reference it in the Tyson movie though. If you are even a little interested in boxing, "Tyson" is a must see.

[binnie]

Tyson is a fascinating guy - so much good and bad in one man, and so much wasted potential.

Shit, he could have been champ for years until he got lazy.........

[Matt White]

Tyson is a fascinating guy - so much good and bad in one man, and so much wasted potential.

Shit, he could have been champ for years until he got lazy.........

I think he's over-rated....he couldn't beat a good big man....

His historical relevance has suffered...and will only continue to decline....

[twonabomber]

i think the Thrilla doc should have been made before Ali forgot everything, or at least before he wasn't able to express himself.

[Matt White]

i think the Thrilla doc should have been made before Ali forgot everything, or at least before he wasn't able to express himself.

That would have been nice...but I doubt he'd have been as kind to Joe then...

And Joe might not be popping off as much with Ali able to return fire...