1.92 Million Download...?

[thome]

I am going to do some more research but it seems she was offered 5000$ fine refused went to court then was guilty for 24song Dowload fine of 1.92 million.

I also have seen that she is really being sued because she was uploading songs.....that is what the true suit is about...?

Was she file sharing...?

Leaching at at File sharing site while also uploading...?

ANY HELP GUYS... NEEDED!!!................ WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT....?

Linky:

Bankruptcy could protect Jammie Thomas | Digital Media - CNET News (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10269251-93.html)
Prior to last year, bankruptcy court would not have sheltered Jammie Thomas-Rasset from the $1.92 million debt she owes the music industry. But a decision by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco could enable her to walk away from the debt, several legal experts said on Friday.

In a stunning jury decision on Thursday, Thomas-Rasset was found liable for willful copyright infringement and ordered to pay damages of $80,000 for each of the 24 songs she was accused of illegally file sharing. The 32-year-old is the first person accused of online music piracy by the Recording Industry Association of America who has taken his or her case to court......

[sadaist]

From what I understand, the record companies get much more pissed if you upload for a million people to get the song, rather than just download one copy for yourself.

But my question is, if I download say Panama, would they have a case against me? I own it on cd, cassette, and album. So I've already paid for the ownership of a copy of that song. Now I just want a quick copy on my pc. If you can prove that you've previously paid for a legal copy of the downloaded song, they wouldn't have a case. (Although I think I might have shoplifted VHII cassette).

[VH Drummer]

I think they'd ask why you couldn't have ripped the CD to your computer, but then again, haven't they claimed that too was illegal?

[Seshmeister]

The problem is its far more hassle to rip CDs you own than just download them from somewhere else.

[sadaist]

The problem is its far more hassle to rip CDs you own than just download them from somewhere else.

Honestly, when Napster first came out long ago I didn't have a cd burner or anything that would rip songs onto the hard drive. So it was easy to click a song & download it (although it took 30 minutes). Now I can rip to the hard drive fairly quickly. But not everyone has a cd burner & some of the programs to transfer to the hard drive aren't novice friendly. I can see where they don't want people to download songs, but come on...a bit overboard with this girl I think.

[Big Train]

It is illegal to rip a file you don't own. We in the music industry frown on that too. But yes, we do get more pissed about you making available a song that can be copied endlessly.

It is more of a hassle to get my wood from Home Depot than my neighbors supply, but I do it anyway.

See the other thread on this Thome, if you want more details on the case.

[bueno bob]

It is more of a hassle to get my wood from Home Depot than my neighbors supply, but I do it anyway.

If my neighbor says "Help yourself man, it's free", should home depot demand I pay them damages since I didn't buy it from their store?

[standin]

Buying stolen property on Craig's list or out the back of a van is illegal and unethical.
With all that is contraband in todays world, there is no need to thieve to live outside of the law.
Hell, even real cheese and raw milk is contraband.

[bueno bob]

Buying stolen property on Craig's list or out the back of a van is illegal and unethical.

You can buy ANYTHING from anybody privately and it can be stolen. So...buy new only from a giant retailer and that's it for purchasing, hunh? There's the spirit of American commercialism at work.

[Big Train]

If my neighbor says "Help yourself man, it's free", should home depot demand I pay them damages since I didn't buy it from their store?

Did any of the labels or artists in question say that? No they did not...

[bueno bob]

Did any of the labels or artists in question say that? No they did not...

As long as they album was purchased once, they would have had no right to. After it (said song) was purchased once through viable/legal means, and they made their revenue, their interest in the matter ended. What the owner of the music/wood pile does with it after that is no longer their concern.

At least that's my perspective. Using said example, if I go to Home Depot and buy a bundle of wood for whatever reason, then decide to share that wood with my neighbor who may not be of means to buy wood (for whatever reason - doesn't have a car to drive to the store, doesn't have the money, too lazy, I'm just feeling generous, whatever), do I not have a right to decide what to do with property that I've already purchased? Does Home Depot have the right to go to my neighbor and say "Well, yeah, Bob paid us for that wood, but YOU didn't! Somebody cut that wood down and has to be paid for their labor! You owe us, thief!"?

I don't think so. And I don't think there's any rationalizing it.

[Big Train]

As long as they album was purchased once, they would have had no right to. After it (said song) was purchased once through viable/legal means, and they made their revenue, their interest in the matter ended. What the owner of the music/wood pile does with it after that is no longer their concern.

At least that's my perspective. Using said example, if I go to Home Depot and buy a bundle of wood for whatever reason, then decide to share that wood with my neighbor who may not be of means to buy wood (for whatever reason - doesn't have a car to drive to the store, doesn't have the money, too lazy, I'm just feeling generous, whatever), do I not have a right to decide what to do with property that I've already purchased? Does Home Depot have the right to go to my neighbor and say "Well, yeah, Bob paid us for that wood, but YOU didn't! Somebody cut that wood down and has to be paid for their labor! You owe us, thief!"?

I don't think so. And I don't think there's any rationalizing it.

Two different issues, don't get them confused. If you bought the CD and shared it physically with another, no harm no foul. If you bought it digitally for yourself and gave it to a friend in a physical form, no problem. Still covered within Fair Use of the copyright act and we are paid via Agicoa rights (blank tape levies).

It's when you take it without paying for it (download) or put it up for anyone on the planet to use (uploads, shared folders) that's where you are going beyond what is set in the law for you to do. You are now making available infinite copies, which you are not allowed to do.

To use the same Home Depot analogy, that's fine if you neighbor let's you have some wood. It's fine if he let you cut down a tree on his property for you to use as wood. It's not ok for you to use wood he obtained illegally, nor is it ok for you to pass on the stolen wood to your friends. Kinda straightforward really...

[thome]

I feel no guilt downloading .

I would feel guilty posting copywrited material. But what is a copywrite, except with the written conscent of major league baseball.

Evidently they give the rights to some people, is it all about the money?

If download a thousand tunes am I offending who, the record co, or the artist.

It depends on the quality of the download .

I feel the only prosecution should be of crap downloads, low grade crap quality .

Who are the fukks who share but give no quality...youtube thats who.

Cops can share your busted Line-up photos and court records of you throwing rocks at the endangered frogs is public.

Fukk them.

Ted Turner runs real good movies in letterbox no commercials on his AMC TV channel but he degenerates the signal grade quality like fake like, at the source so if you copy it it sucks............ fukk him too!

It would be like if books were printed in dissapearing ink so they only last so long and then you must buy another one.........design failure.

Fight The Power!

[Big Train]

Some major fuzzy and contradictory thinking there Thome.

[thome]

Some major fuzzy and contradictory thinking there Thome.


That is why the sub-heading is as, who's side are -We- on? I just don't know.

Am I Made to "feel" guilty -giving away- something I own. By uploading..?

I am not distibuting, for profit.

Do I want the Record Co and Musician to make money, yes I do.

Was I bieng sarcastic about quality of the download, yes.

[standin]

You can buy ANYTHING from anybody privately and it can be stolen. So...buy new only from a giant retailer and that's it for purchasing, hunh? There's the spirit of American commercialism at work.

This is true. That is exactly why one should deal with only reputable persons.

Receipt of stolen property is not the same as contraband. Contraband, for example refrigerators smuggled into Palestine, may be legally obtained. Not all black-market products are stolen property. Trafficking of contraband is a separate ethical issue. Trafficking of contraband is illegal, therefore, it is wrong to smuggle, ethical issues aside.

Receipt of stolen property is not acceptable behavior, ethically or legally. One may justify the behavior from survival to want, but even if your child lay dieing due to a need of a pharmaceutical, it is still a crime against property the extent or lack of punishment is all that is in question in western law.


A visual explanation would be easier.


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2480/3669140737_b73e374b1e_o.jpg

[Seshmeister]

It is illegal to rip a file you don't own. We in the music industry frown on that too. But yes, we do get more pissed about you making available a song that can be copied endlessly. .


To be quite honest I think what 'you in the music industry' don't get is that your customers don't give a flying fuck what you frown upon.

The customer's only concern is that the artist continues to produce their art and be rewarded for it.

How many fucking years of paying 90% of 10% on royalties based on damage to 78s in the 90s?

How many times did your industry sign bands and kill their careers as tax dodges?

How many times did your industry manipulate the market?

How many times did your industry exploit global issues such as poverty or climate change to increase profits?

How many times did your industry exploit people in 3rd world countries to supply cocaine and other drugs to yourselves and your artists with terrible results to indigenous populations?

How many times did your industry promote the worst shitty manufactured non music to the teenage market?

Your industry was happy to charge us for music we already owned 3 or 4 times from 4 track to LP to CD to remastered CD. So we now don't want to pay you yet again for the MP3? Tough fucking shit. It's nothing to do with the artist it never has been. You cunts take almost every fucking penny before it ever reaches them.

Fuck your industry, nobody gives a fuck. You are barely one rung above child molesters on the ladder of humanity and one below arms traders. The best thing that could ever happen to music is that if every last one of you lost your jobs and it all started again from scratch.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[standin]

Thank you sesh, I saved your post. It was that good and clear.

I WISH the Michael payout, that will happen, would break the industry corruption strangle hold....
It won't happen, even that large payout won't break, it's gonna put a dent, but I doubt break or change the industry......

[Big Train]

The customer's only concern is that the artist continues to produce their art and be rewarded for it.



This Robin Hood fantasy of fucking the labels to free the artist has one glaring flaw: The artist is not rewarded by your thievery, they are punished far more than we could do on our worst day. There is at least a CHANCE of artist development and financial rewards. In your magic pot of gold, MP3 for all vision, there is none for them. It is suicide.

I don't give a fuck what you think about me, my industry or our business practices. If you take music, your still a fucking thief who can only justify his arguments are on angles like "well what you do is worse". You are no better than the established industry and in fact are much, much worse to the artist.

[Dolemite!]

I buy atleast half the music I download. If I hadn't heard it first I would have bought nothing. Better than nothing for the artist.

But I love that executives are losing sleep over any download. Can't afford another luxury holiday? Boohoo.

Also sharing "Faith No More Discography" as we speak and having a smile on my face doing it. Who said crime doesn't pay?

[hideyoursheep]

I don't give a fuck what you think about me, my industry or our business practices. If you take music, your still a fucking thief

Do you sing?

What instrument do you play?

Sound engineer?

No?


Then you're a thief as well.

Same respect I would give to a low-life fucking scumbag pimp.

Because that's all you really are.

:finger33::finger-attitude::fupunk::tool::mad0244::fu::jizzz:

[Big Train]

Yes I do. Please make the connection for me though as to "how I'm a thief too".

You know, when your done doodling with your icons.

I'm a pimp, wow. I give you the same respect I'd give someone who worked at Amway. Which is none..

[standin]

BT,
I got pony in this, I'll let an elder, I respect and admire, speak for me.
<object width="660" height="525"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/itsRvRvfG4Y&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/itsRvRvfG4Y&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="660" height="525"></embed></object>

Just yesterday, when speaking to a "developer" my wariness for the "labels" rattled her to the core when discussing exactly what extent the Wal-Mart production, distribution, and financial was to be monitored and to the extent of limited clean contract was to be implemented. Furthermore, I could hear the shaken Id of her soul when I mentioned money laundering and labels.

[standin]

P.s. BT......
No one needs your respect. It is not a vital life giving force. Respect is a product earned.

[standin]

What's more, your saying automatic no respect for those that are in service to you and for without even knowledge of the person in question...

Says so very much about you, you are quite the philistine...

My new disdain for you might not wash away with time...

One of the most abhorred things is to mistreat those that are in service to and for you....

[hideyoursheep]

Please make the connection for me though as to "how I'm a thief too".

-Don't care enough to hold your fucking hand and walk you back through your own condescending, pussy, shit stirring posts only to once again point out to you what is obvious to everyone else.

[hideyoursheep]

Do you sing?

What instrument do you play?

Sound engineer?



Yes I do.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/one%20man%20band" target="_blank"><img src="http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj117/stanw_photos/one_man_band.jpg" border="0" alt="Onemanband Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

[Big Train]

-Don't care enough to hold your fucking hand and walk you back through your own condescending, pussy, shit stirring posts only to once again point out to you what is obvious to everyone else.

So you really had no point then. Which is about average for you.

[Big Train]

P.s. BT......
No one needs your respect. It is not a vital life giving force. Respect is a product earned.

PS, nobody needed your lecture.

[Big Train]

P.s. BT......
No one needs your respect. It is not a vital life giving force. Respect is a product earned.

Which is why I'm not offering it blindly. One the hand you say I should always respect people (if they are serving me) and on the other hand "respect is earned". Tell me which one it should be and I'll follow your lead. I could go either way.

[standin]

PS, nobody needed your lecture.

Yes my estimation was needed , not only did you need to be reminded of ethical treatment of fellow beings, but also others that look upon needed to know your behavior and style of life is not only inappropriate, but also undesirable in act and association.

[standin]

Which is why I'm not offering it blindly. One the hand you say I should always respect people (if they are serving me) and on the other hand "respect is earned". Tell me which one it should be and I'll follow your lead. I could go either way.

Respect is esteem for, or a sense of the worth or excellence of, a person, a personal quality, ability, or a manifestation of a personal quality or ability. In certain ways, respect manifests itself as a kind of ethic or principle, such as in the commonly taught concept of "[having] respect for others" or the ethic of reciprocity.

Esteem for, or a sense of the worth, or excellence, of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability: I have great respect for her judgment.

Deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment: respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.

Respect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respect)

You, BT, are a ninny~

[Seshmeister]

I don't give a fuck what you think about me, my industry or our business practices. If you take music, your still a fucking thief who can only justify his arguments are on angles like "well what you do is worse". You are no better than the established industry and in fact are much, much worse to the artist.

Sorry I didn't mean my rant to sound personal and you shouldn't have to take sole responsibility for the crimes of the industry.

[bueno bob]

This Robin Hood fantasy of fucking the labels to free the artist has one glaring flaw: The artist is not rewarded by your thievery, they are punished far more than we could do on our worst day.

Except for those instances where you download a new artist that YOU WOULDN'T HAVE BOUGHT IN THE STORE (due to a high ticket price and complete prior lack of exposure to them), listen to the music, then as a result ATTEND THEIR CONCERT, BUY A T SHIRT, etc. Yeah, except for THAT little thing, right?


There is at least a CHANCE of artist development and financial rewards.

LMAO

Sure, if you're 16 and starring on the Disney Channel. I know exactly where the bulk of artist development is going to go to, and it's certainly not going to be a band like Sahg or maybe Enforcer or Warbringer, you know, bands who would actually benefit from it.


In your magic pot of gold, MP3 for all vision, there is none for them. It is suicide.

Which explains why most WORKING CLASS musicians have absolutely no problem if you download their music for free, so long as you go see them and buy a T shirt. Why support the RIAA when you can support THEM directly, especially when the RIAA isn't going to take any notice of them unless they sell half a million copies on the day of release?

And when you folks continually FAIL to put any variety on the market in those kinds of numbers for production...I had to download Grayceon's album, but I could certainly find fifteen copies of Katy Perry at Best Buy.

Sorry, but pre-fab music and artists does little to interest me. Of course, you're not marketing to me anymore (somebody with a revenue and a brain when it comes to entertainment)...you're marketing to 17 year old mallrats on their parents nickel who are going to buy what MTV tells them to...


I don't give a fuck what you think about me, my industry or our business practices. If you take music, your still a fucking thief who can only justify his arguments are on angles like "well what you do is worse".

I justify it by saying "I directly support musicians that your company will NOT expose me to because you're too busy shoving Ashley Tisdale down my throat", personally. Saying I'm a "thief" doesn't hurt my feelings at all.


You are no better than the established industry and in fact are much, much worse to the artist.

I wouldn't expect an RIAA apologist to take any other attitude. I don't expect you to understand supporting artists directly in other ways. You're a company man and that's cool. The RIAA puts bread on your table so their perspective should be yours. But out here in the trenches, people work differently and working class musicians by and large feel much differently about it than your company does.

I mean, hell, when Iron Maiden can take the stage and tell you directly to download their new album for free if you like, that really says something.

[hideyoursheep]

What's more, your saying automatic no respect for those that are in service to you and for without even knowledge of the person in question...

Says so very much about you, you are quite the philistine...

My new disdain for you might not wash away with time...

One of the most abhorred things is to mistreat those that are in service to and for you....
Let it go Blaze. He can think what he wants.