Federal Government throws $2.5 billion down shitter

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  • Seshmeister
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    • Oct 2003
    • 35158

    Federal Government throws $2.5 billion down shitter

    The Associated Press: AP IMPACT: $2.5B spent, no alternative med cures

    AP IMPACT: $2.5B spent, no alternative med cures

    By MARILYNN MARCHIONE – Jun 10, 2009

    BETHESDA, Md. (AP) — Ten years ago the government set out to test herbal and other alternative health remedies to find the ones that work. After spending $2.5 billion, the disappointing answer seems to be that almost none of them do.

    Echinacea for colds. Ginkgo biloba for memory. Glucosamine and chondroitin for arthritis. Black cohosh for menopausal hot flashes. Saw palmetto for prostate problems. Shark cartilage for cancer. All proved no better than dummy pills in big studies funded by the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine. The lone exception: ginger capsules may help chemotherapy nausea.

    As for therapies, acupuncture has been shown to help certain conditions, and yoga, massage, meditation and other relaxation methods may relieve symptoms like pain, anxiety and fatigue.

    However, the government also is funding studies of purported energy fields, distance healing and other approaches that have little if any biological plausibility or scientific evidence.

    Taxpayers are bankrolling studies of whether pressing various spots on your head can help with weight loss, whether brain waves emitted from a special "master" can help break cocaine addiction, and whether wearing magnets can help the painful wrist problem, carpal tunnel syndrome.

    The acupressure weight-loss technique won a $2 million grant even though a small trial of it on 60 people found no statistically significant benefit — only an encouraging trend that could have occurred by chance. The researcher says the pilot study was just to see if the technique was feasible.

    "You expect scientific thinking" at a federal science agency, said R. Barker Bausell, author of "Snake Oil Science" and a research methods expert at the University of Maryland, one of the agency's top-funded research sites. "It's become politically correct to investigate nonsense."

    Many scientists say that unconventional treatments hold promise and deserve serious study, but that the federal center needs to be more skeptical and selective.

    "There's not all the money in the world and you have to choose" what most deserves tax support, said Barrie Cassileth, integrative medicine chief at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York.

    "Many of the studies that have been funded I would not have funded because they seem irrational and foolish — studies on distant healing by prayer and energy healing, studies that are based on precepts and ideas that are contrary to what is known in terms of human physiology and disease," she said.

    In an interview last year, shortly after becoming the federal center's new director, Dr. Josephine Briggs said it had a strong research record, and praised the many "big name" scientists who had sought its grants. She conceded there were no big wins from its first decade, other than a study that found acupuncture helped knee arthritis. That finding was called into question when a later, larger study found that sham treatment worked just as well.

    "The initial studies were driven by some very strong enthusiasms, and now we're learning about how to layer evidence" and to do more basic science before testing a particular supplement in a large trial, said Briggs, who trained at Ivy League schools and has a respected scientific career.

    "There are a lot of negative studies in conventional medicine," and the government's outlay is small compared to drug company spending, she added.

    However, critics say that unlike private companies that face bottom-line pressure to abandon a drug that flops, the federal center is reluctant to admit a supplement may lack merit — despite a strategic plan pledging not to equivocate in the face of negative findings.

    Echinacea is an example. After a large study by a top virologist found it didn't help colds, its fans said the wrong one of the plant's nine species had been tested. Federal officials agreed that more research was needed, even though they had approved the type used in the study.

    "There's been a deliberate policy of never saying something doesn't work. It's as though you can only speak in one direction," and say a different version or dose might give different results, said Dr. Stephen Barrett, a retired physician who runs Quackwatch, a web site on medical scams.

    Critics also say the federal center's research agenda is shaped by an advisory board loaded with alternative medicine practitioners. They account for at least nine of the board's 18 members, as required by its government charter. Many studies they approve for funding are done by alternative therapy providers; grants have gone to board members, too.

    "It's the fox guarding the chicken coop," said Dr. Joseph Jacobs, who headed the Office of Alternative Medicine, a smaller federal agency that preceded the center's creation. "This is not science, it's ideology on the part of the advocates."

    Briggs defended their involvement.

    "If you're going to do a study on acupuncture, you're going to need acupuncture expertise," she said. These therapists "are very much believers in what they do," not unlike gastroenterologists doing a study of colonoscopy, and good study design can guard against bias, she said.

    The center was handed a flawed mission, many scientists say.

    Congress created it after several powerful members claimed health benefits from their own use of alternative medicine and persuaded others that this enormously popular field needed more study. The new center was given $50 million in 1999 (its budget was $122 million last year) and ordered to research unconventional therapies and nostrums that Americans were using to see which ones had merit.

    That is opposite how other National Institutes of Health agencies work, where scientific evidence or at least plausibility is required to justify studies, and treatments go into wide use after there is evidence they work — not before.

    "There's very little basic science behind these things. Most of it begins with a tradition, or personal testimony and people's beliefs, even as a fad. And then pressure comes: 'It's being popular, it's being used, it should be studied.' It turns things upside down," said Dr. Edward Campion, a senior editor who reviews alternative medicine research submitted to the New England Journal of Medicine.

    That reasoning was used to justify the $2 million weight-loss study, approved in 2007. It will test Tapas acupressure, devised by Tapas Fleming, a California acupuncturist. Use of her trademarked method requires employing people she certifies, and the study needs eight.

    It involves pressing on specific points on the face and head — the inner corners of the eyes are two — while focusing on a problem. Dr. Charles Elder, a Kaiser Permanente physician who runs an herbal and ayurvedic medicine clinic in Portland, Ore., is testing whether it can prevent dieters from regaining lost weight.

    Say a person comes home and is tempted by Twinkies on the table. The solution: Start acupressure "and say something like 'I have an uncontrollable Twinkie urge,'" Elder said. Then focus on an opposite thought, like "I'm in control of my eating."

    In Chinese medicine, the pressure is said to release natural energy in a place in the body "responsible for transforming animal desire into higher thoughts," Elder said.

    In a federally funded pilot study, 30 dieters who were taught acupressure regained only half a pound six months later, compared with over three pounds for a comparison group of 30 others. However, the study widely missed a key scientific standard for showing that results were not a statistical fluke.

    The pilot trial was just to see if the technique was feasible, Elder said. The results were good enough for the federal center to grant $2.1 million for a bigger study in 500 people that is under way now.

    Alternative medicine research also is complicated by the subjective nature of many of the things being studied. Pain, memory, cravings, anxiety and fatigue are symptoms that people tolerate and experience in widely different ways.

    Take a question like, "Does yoga work for back pain?" said Margaret Chesney, a psychologist who is associate director of the federally funded Center for Integrative Medicine at the University of Maryland.

    "What kind of yoga? What kind of back pain?" And what does it mean to "work" — to help someone avoid surgery, hold a job or need less medication?

    Some things — the body meridians that acupuncturists say they follow, or energy forces that healers say they manipulate — cannot be measured, and many scientists question their existence.

    Studying herbals is tough because they are not standardized as prescription drugs are required to be. One brand might contain a plant's flowers, another its seeds and another, stems and leaves, in varying amounts.

    There are 150 makers of black cohosh "and probably no two are exactly the same, and probably some people are putting sawdust in capsules and selling it," said Norman Farnsworth, a federally funded herbal medicine researcher at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

    Even after a careful study, "you know one thing more precise and firm about what that agent did in that population with that outcome measurement, but you don't necessarily know the whole gamut of its effectiveness," as the echinacea study showed, Briggs said.

    The center posts information on supplements and treatments on its Web site, and has a phone line for the public to ask questions — even when the answer is that not enough is known to rule in or rule out benefit or harm.

    "I hope we are building knowledge and at least an informed consumer," Briggs said.
  • Seshmeister
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    • Oct 2003
    • 35158

    #2
    Time for Oprah to shut her fat fucking face the fuck up.

    The name used for alternative medicine that works is medicine.

    Comment

    • Dolemite!
      Banned
      • Jun 2009
      • 689

      #3
      "Congress created it after several powerful members claimed health benefits from their own use of alternative medicine..."

      If there's one thing I've learned is that being a university grad hardly makes you intelligent and knowledgable. More like it indoctrinates you into a certain way of doing and looking at things. Perhaps those scientists who tested this are unqualified in the area. In any case they wouldn't have an understanding of these natural medicines that many tribal groups out there have. According to EVH he cured cancer by some unconventional drug illegal in the states. I've read many people speaking of the use of hemp oil in curing cancer. And yes, the cure, any cure is played in part by the placebo effect because your mind plays an important role in wellness.

      Comment

      • Dolemite!
        Banned
        • Jun 2009
        • 689

        #4
        But I certainly agree this is money wasted. They could have instead taken a trip to visit native indian tribes or shamans in Peru and take an understanding directly from people who know what they're doing.

        Comment

        • Big Train
          Full Member Status

          • Apr 2004
          • 4011

          #5
          It isn't money wasted, if it rules these things out as potential cures. The real problem is that it never should have cost 2.5 Billion in the first place.

          Comment

          • Nickdfresh
            SUPER MODERATOR

            • Oct 2004
            • 49125

            #6
            Did I actually just agree with Big Train? Yes, there is a lot of New Age shenanigans and hokery that go on with this stuff. But there is some value even indicated in the article. I too resent the idiotic belief that somehow the "Orient" of the East holds some sort of ancient secret wisdom and medical cure-alls. But that doesn't mean that homeopathy is useless or irrelevant...

            Comment

            • hideyoursheep
              ROTH ARMY ELITE
              • Jan 2007
              • 6351

              #7
              2.5 bil?

              Is that all?

              Comment

              • Big Train
                Full Member Status

                • Apr 2004
                • 4011

                #8
                Originally posted by Nickdfresh
                Did I actually just agree with Big Train? Yes, there is a lot of New Age shenanigans and hokery that go on with this stuff. But there is some value even indicated in the article. I too resent the idiotic belief that somehow the "Orient" of the East holds some sort of ancient secret wisdom and medical cure-alls. But that doesn't mean that homeopathy is useless or irrelevant...
                It's possible, we believe in a lot of the same principles. Methods on getting there, not so much.

                Penn and Teller should just be in charge of all this stuff. They could do for 5 seasons worth of material. Paying them top dollar, $100 million, done.

                Comment

                • Blackflag
                  Banned
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 3406

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Big Train
                  It isn't money wasted, if it rules these things out as potential cures. The real problem is that it never should have cost 2.5 Billion in the first place.
                  Dude...how about we spend money to find things that ARE cures...not to find out what things AREN'T cures? Give me $100 and I'll give you a long list of shit that AREN'T cures. Fuck, I think that's the easier task.

                  Comment

                  • ELVIS
                    Banned
                    • Dec 2003
                    • 44120

                    #10
                    Shove a mobile phone up yer ass!

                    I did a study and it's proven to help prostate cancer, keeps you from getting too many dicks up your ass and keeps dickheads like you away from good websites like this!!!


                    I should post this on your website, ASSHOLE!!


                    Comment

                    • ELVIS
                      Banned
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 44120

                      #11
                      BTW, Permixon which is a refined prescription of Saw Palmetto has shown to reduce the size of the prostate...

                      Glucosamine can be effective as it's a required nutrient to produce glycosaminoglycan, a molecule used in the formation cartilage...

                      Both if used with mobile phones in the manner described above can cause constipation...


                      The center was handed a flawed mission, many scientists say.
                      I don't trust big pharma one bit...

                      Next we will hear that asprin is not effective and you gotta take their new version that causes liver failure and costs $300 a month...


                      Comment

                      • FORD
                        ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                        • Jan 2004
                        • 58754

                        #12
                        Originally posted by ELVIS
                        I don't trust big pharma one bit...

                        Next we will hear that asprin is not effective and you gotta take their new version that causes liver failure and costs $300 a month...


                        They already have something like that. It's called Plavix, and I'm trying to get my mom off that shit

                        Nothing but aspirin with bad side effects. What's the point?
                        Eat Us And Smile

                        Cenk For America 2024!!

                        Justice Democrats


                        "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                        Comment

                        • ELVIS
                          Banned
                          • Dec 2003
                          • 44120

                          #13
                          To make you sick so they can talk you into something else to buy and make you sicker...

                          I'm getting out of healthcare. I'm disillusioned with it. It's not the same field I studied 20 years ago...

                          Comment

                          • ELVIS
                            Banned
                            • Dec 2003
                            • 44120

                            #14
                            Plavix

                            Comment

                            • Big Train
                              Full Member Status

                              • Apr 2004
                              • 4011

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Blackflag
                              Dude...how about we spend money to find things that ARE cures...not to find out what things AREN'T cures? Give me $100 and I'll give you a long list of shit that AREN'T cures. Fuck, I think that's the easier task.
                              Dude....removing all doubt about things that have some potential benefits, finding out what they cure or have an effect on, is helping to find a cure, as it narrows the focus to what might actually be the cure. I'd gladly see 100 mil spent rather than 2.5 Billion spent to get an actual scientific opinion. Your "jimmy the greek" 100 picks aren't gonna do it.

                              Comment

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