Obama's Dissident Database

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  • ULTRAMAN VH
    Commando
    • May 2004
    • 1480

    Obama's Dissident Database

    Obama's dissident database could be secret -- and permanent
    By: Byron York
    Chief Political Correspondent
    08/06/09 4:47 AM EDT
    The White House request that members of the public report anyone who is spreading "disinformation" about the proposed national health care makeover could lead to a White House database of political opponents that will be both secret and permanent, according to Republican lawyers on the Senate Judiciary Committee who are examining the plan's possible implementation.

    On Monday, White House director of new media Macon Phillips posted a note on the White House web site complaining of "disinformation about health insurance reform." "These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation," Phillips wrote. "Since we can't keep track of all of them here at the White House, we're asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."

    In a letter to Obama Tuesday, Republican Sen. John Cornyn wrote that, given Phillips' request, "it is inevitable that the names, email address, IP addresses, and private speech of U.S. citizens will be reported to the White House." Cornyn warned the president that "these actions taken by your White House staff raise the specter of a data collection program."

    "I can only imagine the level of justifiable outrage had your predecessor asked Americans to forward emails critical of his policies to the White House," Cornyn continued. "I urge you to cease this program immediately."

    Senate Judiciary Committee lawyers studying the proposal say that although there is no absolutely settled law on the matter, the White House plan is likely not covered by the Privacy Act, which prohibits government agencies from keeping any records "describing how any individual exercises rights guaranteed by the First Amendment unless expressly authorized by statute or by the individual about whom the record is maintained." Therefore, it appears the White House can legally keep records of the emails and other communications it receives in response to Phillips' request.

    Those lawyers also point out that the White House is not covered by the Freedom of Information Act, which means it would not have to release any information on the plan to members of the public who make a request.

    In addition, the lawyers say the collected emails likely will be covered by the Presidential Records Act, which requires the White House to preserve and maintain its records for permanent storage in a government database. Phillips' request suggests that whatever information the White House receives on health-care reform "disinformation" will be used to further the goal of passing a national health-care makeover, which is, of course, one of the president's main policy initiatives. Such material, and whatever the White House does with it, would qualify as presidential records. Only after more than a decade would such records be publicly available.

    "So the White House, whether by design or accident, has requested information from the public that will become 'records' under the Presidential Records Act, yet would be impermissible for any government to otherwise collect under the Privacy Act," writes one Judiciary Committee source. "Where were the lawyers in all of this? What is their legal basis for authorizing the collection of these records?"

    Linda Douglass, head of communications for the White House Office of Health Reform, says the White House is "not compiling lists or sources of information" on opponents of health care reform. But if "fishy" information is indeed collected, as Phillips' request suggested, the laws involved mean that the information obtained by the White House could not only be secret but permanent. A dissident database, in whatever precise form it ultimately takes, could be around for a long time to come.

    -Byron York


    Washington Examiner
  • Nickdfresh
    SUPER MODERATOR

    • Oct 2004
    • 49125

    #2

    Comment

    • FORD
      ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

      • Jan 2004
      • 58755

      #3
      John Cornyn is just afraid that someone will find his e mails to the "Man/Turtle Love Association"

      Eat Us And Smile

      Cenk For America 2024!!

      Justice Democrats


      "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

      Comment

      • Dolemite!
        Banned
        • Jun 2009
        • 689

        #4
        Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
        "I can only imagine the level of justifiable outrage had your predecessor asked Americans to forward emails critical of his policies to the White House," Cornyn continued. "I urge you to cease this program immediately."

        Exactly.

        I'll never get over how people look the other way when it's their "side" doing it. Now it's ok to go nazi'ing for your country and to think otherwise is just "paranoia." Humanity was built to self-destruct. Kudos to the assholes who made this possible.

        Comment

        • Big Train
          Full Member Status

          • Apr 2004
          • 4011

          #5
          This is one of those "If Bush" arguments.

          If Bush had a database (and I'll throw you a bone, he probably did) and then asked the public to rat on those who disagreed with him and ASKED for this on the White House website, Ford's head would explode, Nick would be on a non stop posting rant, Lounge would be beside himself and the others would be getting ready to march in the streets.

          But because it's Barry O, we are gonna let this one slide. Remember kids, if you disagree with Barry O, you are a racist. You may even have a swastika on your shirt when you go to express your opinion to Nancy Pelosi. Remember to dress poorly, as to be believable to those who you are protesting against.

          Comment

          • bueno bob
            DIAMOND STATUS
            • Jul 2004
            • 22820

            #6
            With the way Fox News has absolutely RUN AMOK with its misinformation campaign about ALL things non Republican, and with the way their empty dittoheaded viewers are buying their FLAGRANT LIES hook, line, and sinker, I can understand the concern. Fox News is engaged in a war of misinformation, lies and empty rhetoric without basis in fact and is actively campaigning to make matters WORSE. The fact that they're bussing in supporters to actively disrupt town hall meetings and BLOCK the spread of information alone ought to be criminal.

            I'd be happy to report instances of misinformation, obstruction and direct lies to the White House so that the White House can make official clarifications when Fox News and Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly and who the fuck ever else start spreading LIES to the American people in the hopes that it'll scare them into thinking a particular way.

            Health care reform is too important for these witless Fox News assholes to fuck it all up simply because they're pissed that their out of power and throwing temper tantrums.
            Twistin' by the pool.

            Comment

            • FORD
              ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

              • Jan 2004
              • 58755

              #7
              Originally posted by Big Train
              This is one of those "If Bush" arguments.

              If Bush had a database (and I'll throw you a bone, he probably did) and then asked the public to rat on those who disagreed with him and ASKED for this on the White House website, Ford's head would explode, Nick would be on a non stop posting rant, Lounge would be beside himself and the others would be getting ready to march in the streets.

              But because it's Barry O, we are gonna let this one slide. Remember kids, if you disagree with Barry O, you are a racist. You may even have a swastika on your shirt when you go to express your opinion to Nancy Pelosi. Remember to dress poorly, as to be believable to those who you are protesting against.
              Bush DID have a database. It was disguised as the "Take My Phone Number off The Telemarketing Autodialer List" scam.

              And even my parents fell for that one (and they hated the Chimp as much as I did.)
              Eat Us And Smile

              Cenk For America 2024!!

              Justice Democrats


              "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

              Comment

              • Big Train
                Full Member Status

                • Apr 2004
                • 4011

                #8
                Bob,

                The White House keeping an "eye" on things is the absolute essence of intimidation. This puts a chill on free speech. Fox News is not charged with representing the people of the United States. The White House is.

                The health care argument should be strong enough to stand on it's own merits, regardless of who thinks who is being bused in (I've heard it in the other direction as well, with "union thugs and Acorn" playing the villian role in that script).

                As of now, it does not.

                Comment

                • Big Train
                  Full Member Status

                  • Apr 2004
                  • 4011

                  #9
                  Originally posted by FORD
                  Bush DID have a database. It was disguised as the "Take My Phone Number off The Telemarketing Autodialer List" scam.

                  And even my parents fell for that one (and they hated the Chimp as much as I did.)
                  Big difference though is that Bush did not ASK the public for help keeping an eye on his enemies. He did it himself.

                  You have to wonder if Barry O's request is even constitutional. If private companies can't legally keep certain types of information, on what grounds does POTUS have for this? National Security of his proposals?

                  Comment

                  • bueno bob
                    DIAMOND STATUS
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 22820

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Big Train
                    Bob,

                    The White House keeping an "eye" on things is the absolute essence of intimidation.
                    Well, from my perspective, the White House has been "keeping an eye on things" for MANY years now - in this day and age, it's just getting harder to hide it.

                    Which is, of course, the problem with the government in totality, but the beast is self-sustaining at this point. Short of a massive revision of the whole concept of "Government", I don't think there's any way around that at this point.

                    Originally posted by Big Train
                    This puts a chill on free speech. Fox News is not charged with representing the people of the United States. The White House is.
                    Which is why I think the White House SHOULD respond to instances where misinformation is being spread and clarify the details. Especially where something as important as this is concerned. Freedom of speech I obviously support, but opinions should be framed as opinions, not facts.

                    Originally posted by Big Train
                    The health care argument should be strong enough to stand on it's own merits, regardless of who thinks who is being bused in (I've heard it in the other direction as well, with "union thugs and Acorn" playing the villian role in that script).
                    Well, pro-Republican scripts on how disrupt town hall meetings effectively are available...I'm willing to review the evidence on Acorn and Union scripts on how to do the same thing, obviously...

                    Originally posted by Big Train
                    As of now, it does not.
                    Which is why I feel instances of misinformation being should probably should be responded to directly by the people in charge of making the health care argument. Right now even MY head's swimming in a sea of conflicting ideas about whats in there and what isn't, what'll happen in the future and what won't.

                    I'd certainly like to see official statements being made, and if enough people say "This is what's being said and by whom" to the White House, hopefully it'd have an impact and the bill makers can go on the tube and say "Listen, this is what you're being told and here's the reality of it..."

                    I mean, when you have elderly ladies showing up at conferences and asking Obama why Fox News told her he's going to "Let them die", there's obviously a huge issue about misinformation being spread that needs to be addressed...
                    Last edited by bueno bob; 08-07-2009, 02:09 PM.
                    Twistin' by the pool.

                    Comment

                    • bueno bob
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Jul 2004
                      • 22820

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Big Train
                      Big difference though is that Bush did not ASK the public for help keeping an eye on his enemies. He did it himself.
                      Bush's patriot act increased the freedom of law enforcement to search telephone records, email, medical and financial records, and other things just to see if you were a "good guy".

                      The White House is offering to debunk bullshit that gets spread through an active campaign of misinformation and scare tactics by primarily Fox News and their resources.

                      I think there's a big difference, yeah.
                      Twistin' by the pool.

                      Comment

                      • Big Train
                        Full Member Status

                        • Apr 2004
                        • 4011

                        #12
                        Originally posted by bueno bob
                        Well, from my perspective, the White House has been "keeping an eye on things" for MANY years now - in this day and age, it's just getting harder to hide it.

                        I agree with you on that point, of course they are. However, to publicly state that you want names and addresses is not acceptable, just as it wasn't 200+ years ago.

                        Which is, of course, the problem with the government in totality, but the beast is self-sustaining at this point. Short of a massive revision of the whole concept of "Government", I don't think there's any way around that at this point.

                        Again I'm ok with that to. My problem is that you can't say it's ok provided you agree with the government's position and then say it isn't when you don't. If it wasn't ok for Bush or Nixon, or the King of England, it isn't ok for Obama.


                        Which is why I think the White House SHOULD respond to instances where misinformation is being spread and clarify the details. Especially where something as important as this is concerned. Freedom is speech I obviously support, but opinions should be framed as opinions, not facts.

                        The White House did a prime time softball special, the President has been all around the country and has a few networks in his pocket to sell his message. It's not being bought. Fox News/talk radio can claim a certain amount of that credit, but ultimately the people are not buying it. His own party has hurt him more.


                        Well, pro-Republican scripts on how disrupt town hall meetings effectively are available...I'm willing to review the evidence on Acorn and Union scripts on how to do the same thing, obviously...

                        It's the same play, just swap out heroes and villians.


                        Which is why I feel instances of misinformation being should probably should be responded to directly by the people in charge of making the health care argument. Right now even MY head's swimming in a sea of conflicting ideas about whats in there and what isn't, what'll happen in the future and what won't.

                        I'd certainly like to see official statements being made, and if enough people say "This is what's being said and by whom" to the White House, hopefully it'd have an impact and the bill makers can go on the tube and say "Listen, this is what you're being told and here's the reality of it..."

                        I mean, when you have elderly ladies showing up at conferences and asking Obama why Fox News told her he's going to "Let them die", there's obviously a huge issue about misinformation being spread that needs to be addressed...

                        All that has to be done is what they have done. News conferences and White House "nights" with Brian Williams sell very effectively. It might be helpful if in the future Congress gets to read the bill and his own parties advocates can speak to what is and isn't actually in the bill, which as of now, they cannot. That might keep the blue hairs from listening to what is out there.

                        Comment

                        • Big Train
                          Full Member Status

                          • Apr 2004
                          • 4011

                          #13
                          Originally posted by bueno bob
                          Bush's patriot act increased the freedom of law enforcement to search telephone records, email, medical and financial records, and other things just to see if you were a "good guy".

                          The White House is offering to debunk bullshit that gets spread through an active campaign of misinformation and scare tactics by primarily Fox News and their resources.

                          I think there's a big difference, yeah.
                          There would be if they were not collecting personal information about their adversaries. It's in the same league, it can't be denied.

                          Give me an honest need for them to have the infomation on the individual as opposed to debunking the myth.

                          They would be "Debunking" only if it were a FAQ or suggestion box of questions. It changes tone entirely when it says "Bob from Pittsburgh says this: is it true"?

                          Comment

                          • ULTRAMAN VH
                            Commando
                            • May 2004
                            • 1480

                            #14
                            Originally posted by bueno bob
                            Bush's patriot act increased the freedom of law enforcement to search telephone records, email, medical and financial records, and other things just to see if you were a "good guy".

                            The White House is offering to debunk bullshit that gets spread through an active campaign of misinformation and scare tactics by primarily Fox News and their resources.

                            I think there's a big difference, yeah.
                            So Obama and his gang, responding by creating a list of those who disagree with his plan is not a scare tactic?

                            Comment

                            • jhale667
                              DIAMOND STATUS
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 20929

                              #15
                              Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
                              So Obama and his gang, responding by creating a list of those who disagree with his plan is not a scare tactic?

                              Be afraid when THEY start throwing people in some GitMo-type detention facility without benefit of charges or trial like his predecessor did...

                              Not likely to happen, though.
                              Originally posted by conmee
                              If anyone even thinks about deleting the Muff Thread they are banned.... no questions asked.

                              That is all.

                              Icon.
                              Originally posted by GO-SPURS-GO
                              I've seen prominent hypocrite liberal on this site Jhale667


                              Originally posted by Isaac R.
                              Then it's really true??:eek:

                              The Muff Thread is really just GONE ???

                              OMFG...who in their right mind...???
                              Originally posted by eddie78
                              I was wrong about you, brother. You're good.

                              Comment

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