The Democrats backed themselves into defending Afghanistan as being The Good War

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  • Fuct Jup
    Head Fluffer
    • Nov 2006
    • 236

    The Democrats backed themselves into defending Afghanistan as being The Good War

    Read these and weep. First you have Bob Woodward reprising his earlier role as warmongering hagiographer. Then you have an excellent piece written by the man who wrote Imperial Life In The Emerald City (which, now that I think about it, was the cartoon version of The Best And The Brightest.)And then, dear God, there's this bucket of cold water, which makes me think we are dealing with a whole new level of hubris. Finally, here are two pieces by Spender Ackerman, who you need to bookmark right now if you haven't already.

    If you haven't gotten out your dog eared copy of TBATB, do it now and read it through. We are about to go through the looking glass with a man named McChrystal.

    The military is obviously turning up the heat in Washington to get us into a much bigger war in Afghanistan and it's being done the usual way, with lies and leaks and back stabbing and grandstanding. And the politics are as confused as ever.

    For me, this one is easy. Afghanistan is the most unlikely place to win a war on the planet. To apply the lessons learned in Iraq (such as they were) to this country seems insane to me --- especially the concept of "counter-insurgency," so beloved by the McChrystalites, which is being bizarrely misapplied. But more important than that: whenever you hear people saying that the primary purpose in continuing a war is because "to leave would send the wrong message" and declaring that "perceptions" are the reasons for continuing a slaughter, you know you are in Pentagon NeverNever land.

    Escalation is a bad idea. The Democrats backed themselves into defending the idea of Afghanistan being The Good War because they felt they needed to prove their macho bonafides when they called for withdrawal from Iraq. Nobody asked too many questions at the time, including me. But none of us should forget that it was a political strategy, not a serious foreign policy.

    There have been many campaign promises "adjusted" since the election. There is no reason that the administration should feel any more bound to what they said about this than all the other committments it has blithely turned aside in the interest of "pragmatism."


    Update: Oh what fun. NRO sent over a bunch of robots who thought it was fun to swing their tiny little appendages around in the comment section (which is now closed and the insults deleted. My house, my rules, no urinating on the furniture.) You didn't miss much other than a bunch of bullshit about Dhimmicrats etc.

    I have always believed that The Good War was a myth and that the Democrats used it as a political weapon. I've written about it plenty in the past. But why these bloodthirsty wingnuts should take issue with that and conclude that I'm therefore responsible for the deaths of American soldiers is beyond me.

    After all, the Democrats were all for the war --- just like they were. The only problem the right had with it was that the Democrats criticized George W. Bush for not being enough of a warmonger on Afghanistan. They weren't pacifists. They were just liars and political opportunists. And now the Republicans and the Democrats are all potentially on the same team, pulling for a bigger and better and longer war in Afghanistan. Huzzah! Post partisan comity is at hand.

    But these people are apparently confused about what they are supposed to believe under these new circumstances. Do they want to escalate the war or do they want the Democrats to "come clean" and get out? I can't really tell. They're so programmed that they launch into Bushian gibberish at the mere mention of the Democrats not "really believing" in the war, like that makes some sort of substantial difference. Am I to conclude that these wingnuts therefore disagree with the Democrats and want to withdraw? Or do they think we should stay? (Or is it that they only want wars to be supported by Republicans, who "really believe" in what they are doing? Heh.)

    These right wingers are a lost and defeated little minority these days so I suppose it's to be expected that they make no sense, but this is ridiculous. Here I put out the hand of friendship and agree that the Democrats are just as full of it as the Republicans when it comes to Afghanistan and they call me a traitor. There's just no pleasing some people.

    The conclusions they come to about Democrats not liking shooting wars and hating the soldiers and the rest is truly laughable when you look at the record. The fairer characterization is that Democrats back every stupid war that comes down the pike. The only question is whether or not they are doing it for craven political reasons or if they really believe in it. Either way, the idea that Democrats are reflexively anti-war is nuts. If there's one thing you can almost always count on is that they will be there smartly saluting whenever the military establishment says boo.

    As for Afghanistan, I knew we were going in no matter what the minute the World Trade center was hit and didn't waste my breath arguing against it. It would have been like arguing against the sun coming coming up. And I suppose I could have guessed that we'd still be there eight years on, but it seemed unlikely after the Soviets got their asses handed to them there just a few short years ago.

    But God help me, whatever happened, I didn't think I'd have to listen to the same tired crap about "hearts and minds" and "sending messages" and "dominoes falling" for yet another time in my life. But here we are again, with the wingnuts screeching incoherently about treason and hating the troops like they just invented the argument and the Democrats trying to figure out ways to deal with the whole mess on the margins. It's groundhog day, except that people actually die ...

    Hullabaloo

    From his headquarters in Kabul, Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal sees one clear path to achieve President Obama's core goal of preventing al-Qaeda from reestablishing havens in Afghanistan:


    The top U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan warns in an urgent, confidential assessment of the war that he needs more forces within the next year and bluntly states that without them, the eight-year conflict


    The Washington Post’s headline -- McChrystal: More Forces Or ’Mission Failure’ -- does what the persons who leaked Gen. Stanley McChrystal’s Afghanistan
    Last edited by Fuct Jup; 09-25-2009, 09:48 AM.
    Anything left in that bottle?
  • Nickdfresh
    SUPER MODERATOR

    • Oct 2004
    • 49205

    #2
    What do you mean "Democrats?" What have the "backed themselves into" again? Obama is already talking about changing focus to exclusively one to kill of contain terrorists and partially getting out...

    Comment

    • ELVIS
      Banned
      • Dec 2003
      • 44120

      #3
      Yeah right...

      Comment

      • Nickdfresh
        SUPER MODERATOR

        • Oct 2004
        • 49205

        #4
        Originally posted by ELVIS
        Yeah right...
        Wow. Managed two syllables there!

        What do you and Fuct Jup from the Links actually think about all this? The interesting thing here is that most "conservatives" support the War there. So, you're either "cut-and-runners" or hypocritical cockbags that would be mindlessly defending the War there if McPain and McFailin were in charge...
        Last edited by Nickdfresh; 09-25-2009, 10:52 AM.

        Comment

        • ELVIS
          Banned
          • Dec 2003
          • 44120

          #5
          I support either one of the two following options:

          Destroy the enemy or bring the troops home!

          Comment

          • FORD
            ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

            • Jan 2004
            • 58785

            #6
            This Democrat NEVER bought into the bullshit about Afghanistan.
            Eat Us And Smile

            Cenk For America 2024!!

            Justice Democrats


            "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

            Comment

            • ELVIS
              Banned
              • Dec 2003
              • 44120

              #7
              You may not have, but they, as a whole, did...

              Comment

              • Satan
                ROTH ARMY ELITE
                • Jan 2004
                • 6664

                #8
                I support the next war.... in Iran. And the inevitable result which will bring about the reign of my son, the Antichrist, and the Most Unholiest era in the history of planet Earth.

                Bring it on
                Eternally Under the Authority of Satan

                Originally posted by Sockfucker
                I've been in several mental institutions but not in Bakersfield.

                Comment

                • Nickdfresh
                  SUPER MODERATOR

                  • Oct 2004
                  • 49205

                  #9
                  Originally posted by ELVIS
                  You may not have, but they, as a whole, did...
                  Why wouldn't they have? That's where 9/11 was plotted! The problem was the War was shortchanged so Bush and Cheney could fuck up Iraq and they turned a decisive victory over the Taliban and al Qaida into a muddled backwater cluster fuck of insurgency.

                  The problem now is if it's worth the bother of defending a gov't not much better than the Taliban was in many respects. Also, the Taliban is not the same entity it was in 2000-2001 and there are many disparate groups that are more moderate and perhaps even more honest than the Warlord fuckwits we've been dealing with, like the brother of the "Mayor of Kabul"...
                  Last edited by Nickdfresh; 09-25-2009, 04:12 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Satan
                    ROTH ARMY ELITE
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 6664

                    #10
                    Yeah, Jeb Karzai and his brother Unocal W. Karzai ain't doing the US any favors
                    Eternally Under the Authority of Satan

                    Originally posted by Sockfucker
                    I've been in several mental institutions but not in Bakersfield.

                    Comment

                    • Fuct Jup
                      Head Fluffer
                      • Nov 2006
                      • 236

                      #11
                      U.S. Commander of Afghanistan has only talked to Obama once?

                      WTF?

                      The military general credited for capturing Saddam Hussein and killing the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq says he has only spoken to President Obama once since taking command of Afghanistan.

                      “I’ve talked to the president, since I’ve been here, once on a VTC [video teleconference],” General Stanley McChrystal told CBS reporter David Martin in a television interview that aired Sunday.

                      “You’ve talked to him once in 70 days?” Mr. Martin followed up.

                      “That is correct,” the general replied.

                      This revelation comes amid the explosive publication of an classified report written by the general that said the war in Afghanistan “will likely result in failure” of more troops are not added next year. Yet, the debate over health care reform continues to dominate Washington’s political discussions.

                      Former U.S. Ambassador for the United Nations John Bolton said this was indicative of President Obama’s misplaced priorities.

                      “I think it’s very clear, and has been during last year’s campaign and in the eight months the president has been in office that he just doesn’t regard foreign policy and national security as important as domestic issues, like reforming the health care system,” Mr. Bolton told the hosts of the Washington Times’ American Morning News Monday morning.

                      He went on, “If you think there are no threats then it’s not illogical to pay no attention to the rest of the world. The problem is in his [Obama’s] basic reading of the international environment where we do continue to face massive threats for international terrorists and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, among others.

                      U.S. Commander of Afghanistan only talked to Obama once - The Back Story - Washington Times
                      Anything left in that bottle?

                      Comment

                      • ELVIS
                        Banned
                        • Dec 2003
                        • 44120

                        #12
                        Why hasn't Obahhahhahhahhahhahhama displayed (to us, the people) any support, or explained his position regarding his foreign policy ??

                        Comment

                        • FORD
                          ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                          • Jan 2004
                          • 58785

                          #13
                          Originally posted by ELVIS
                          Why hasn't Obahhahhahhahhahhahhama displayed (to us, the people) any support, or explained his position regarding his foreign policy ??
                          Yeah, he should give statements like Chimpy did.


                          Uhhhh.... were gonna git them evildoers. Gonna smoke em
                          out of their holes. Except that now we ain't gonna do that
                          cuz I'm not that concerned about him, and God told me to
                          strike Iraq, eh or something like that. Huh huh huh huh huh
                          Eat Us And Smile

                          Cenk For America 2024!!

                          Justice Democrats


                          "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                          Comment

                          • Fuct Jup
                            Head Fluffer
                            • Nov 2006
                            • 236

                            #14
                            Obama has no foreign policy.

                            You think he would have time to talk to our Generals rather than flying to Copenhagen to fight for Chicago with Oprah. He has spent less time in the White House than any other president in their first 9 months in office.
                            Anything left in that bottle?

                            Comment

                            • Guitar Shark
                              ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                              • Jan 2004
                              • 7579

                              #15
                              Originally posted by ELVIS
                              Why hasn't Obahhahhahhahhahhahhama displayed (to us, the people) any support, or explained his position regarding his foreign policy ??
                              Just because you haven't listened to it, or have dismissed it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
                              ROTH ARMY MILITIA


                              Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
                              Sharky sometimes needs things spelled out for him in explicit, specific detail. I used to think it was a lawyer thing, but over time it became more and more evident that he's merely someone's idiot twin.

                              Comment

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