Roth Army Site Design Thread

[Mezro]

Figured it might make things easier if we have all the site design related discussion in one thread. There is plenty of ground we need to cover and having to dig around for info and answers to questions would be a pain in the ass.

Mezro...hey VA, could you help make sure this thread stays on topic?...thanks...

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Stuck....

[Mezro]

So I had a good conversation with Melton (designer) last night. Let me give you guys an overview:

1. Melton is going to join the Roth Army and poke around for the next few days. He wants to get a sense of the way we use the forum, how certain pages work in relation to others, and also start putting together global navigation questions. He wants to immerse himself in the project again and get back up to speed. He really wants to see his design applied to the site and the project finished.

2. I have a follow up call scheduled with him Sunday night at 8 PM. I will try to answer any of the navigation questions he has and make sure that he has the scope of the project correct for when he reaches back out to the developers. Any information from that call will be shared with you guys so we can discuss.

3. The estimate Melton sent Sarge is about 5 months old. The $500 quote was for development fees only. That could end up being higher on the development side if the scope of the project broadens. There is a lot of things the developers won't know until they see our revised site architecture and start digging around the site. FYI - Melton did not include any project management fees into the estimate. I don't know what he will want (if anything). He may have to design additional site assets based upon the developers needs.

And the most important thing you guys have to figure out is if you want Melton & I on the project. You can collectively decided to go with you own developer and have someone else handle the project management. If you go in another direction, both Melton & I will help make the transition to a new team easy. All files and assets will be made available to whomever needs them. We can be involved or we can step away. I want to do what makes the most sense for the site. Thoughts?

Mezro...either way, we really need to get this moving to get it done before Sarge is deployed...

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Sounds good Mez...

The only thing I'd add is that of course you know that this version of the Army is a much more scaled-down model... The original Army had several other sections.... Now how many of those would Sarge be interested in bringing back from the dead, only he can answer....

[Mezro]

Sounds good Mez...

The only thing I'd add is that of course you know that this version of the Army is a much more scaled-down model... The original Army had several other sections.... Now how many of those would Sarge be interested in bringing back from the dead, only he can answer....

I hear you bro. The new design features a slightly changed global navigation than the original site. Chris and I had talked about this in the early stages of the design. There were just some things that made sense to roll into others. Take a close look at the design and you will see what I am talking about. Before anything is put into play or any changes made, we need to talk about it and ultimately get Sarge's thumbs up.

Mezro...lots to do to make this happen...

[Diamondjimi]

One suggestion.... bring back Arielle Bot!

A great place to dump shitty assed threads rather than clogging up the "Dump"...

I miss that bitch! :sex:

[twonabomber]

can we get a "Thinks Steve Savicki is a JACKASS for thinking this is a worthless post" button?

[Mezro]

I think we still need some feedback from the community if they even want me to be involved with the rest of this project. I don't want to put the extra time and effort in if you guys really want someone else to finish this up. Like I said, I will do whatever is in the best interest of the Army at this point.

Mezro...just let me know either way before I get too far into the project again...

[Panamark]

Im not sure how else to help at this point apart from inject funds ?
Am I wrong to assume Melton cant translate his work into VB skins
as required, given extra funding ? Dude, I dont think anyone wants
you out.. Im not getting that vibe..

[Mezro]

Im not sure how else to help at this point apart from inject funds ?
Am I wrong to assume Melton cant translate his work into VB skins
as required, given extra funding ? Dude, I dont think anyone wants
you out.. Im not getting that vibe..

You have funded enough Mark. Really man, that was a nice donation.

Melton can modify his files but the original scope of the project didn't include that. He was just supposed to design in Photoshop, get it as close as possible, hand off to the developer, and they would slice and dice his file into a workable VB skin. Miner should have been able to finish the job...but he couldn't. He didn't have the right skill set. He could only work with a design that was a fixed width. The Roth Army site design needs to be a fluid width. He couldn't take the Photoshop files and convert to fluid. The developers Melton wants to work with should be able to do that. If they can't convert to fluid, Melton will have to reformat his design and do it himself. That is extra work for him and a bit of a pain in the ass. One way or the other, he will make it work.

The bottom line is that there is plenty of shit that has to happen to get this done. This is a full blown redesign/rebrand of the site. This isn't just switching vBulletin colors and uploading a new logo. Sarge wanted something outstanding and we gave it to him. Now the interesting part of this project is about to begin: production.

Not getting the vibe that people don't want me on this project. It is just a shit load of work. The funny thing is plenty of people want a new site but only a few show any interest in helping.

Mezro...happy to have you and VA helping...diamondjimi is also ready to help with Photoshop stuff if needed...that is a good start...

[Panamark]

You have funded enough Mark. Really man, that was a nice donation.

Melton can modify his files but the original scope of the project didn't include that. He was just supposed to design in Photoshop, get it as close as possible, hand off to the developer, and they would slice and dice his file into a workable VB skin. Miner should have been able to finish the job...but he couldn't. He didn't have the right skill set. He could only work with a design that was a fixed width. The Roth Army site design needs to be a fluid width. He couldn't take the Photoshop files and convert to fluid. The developers Melton wants to work with should be able to do that. If they can't convert to fluid, Melton will have to reformat his design and do it himself. That is extra work for him and a bit of a pain in the ass. One way or the other, he will make it work.

The bottom line is that there is plenty of shit that has to happen to get this done. This is a full blown redesign/rebrand of the site. This isn't just switching vBulletin colors and uploading a new logo. Sarge wanted something outstanding and we gave it to him. Now the interesting part of this project is about to begin: production.

Not getting the vibe that people don't want me on this project. It is just a shit load of work. The funny thing is plenty of people want a new site but only a few show any interest in helping.

Mezro...happy to have you and VA helping...diamondjimi is also ready to help with Photoshop stuff if needed...that is a good start...

Its amazing how many people say they will help.
But I guess its sometimes hard to put your money where your mouth is.
Im trusting that the current donations will be redirected by
Sarge towards Melton and yourself to complete the mods.

Sarge knows I have his back if more funds are required.

Hey, the 30,000 gazilllion other members here, even $10 bucks would
help ???? If you can pay for internet access, Im sure you can
spare a little ?? If not, I will fill the void, if needed.
I have seen a lot of posters say they will give when needed..

Well ???? Here's your chance ???

Give Sarge a break after all his years and own money he has
put in here....

If you cant, doesnt mean we still dont love you...
Im not keeping a list of who has chipped in or not..
You are all important as you are the heartbeat of the place !
But if you can afford $10+ you know its going to a good
cause now.... Bad Ass Visuals !!!!

[Seshmeister]

I think we still need some feedback from the community if they even want me to be involved with the rest of this project. I don't want to put the extra time and effort in if you guys really want someone else to finish this up. Like I said, I will do whatever is in the best interest of the Army at this point.

Mezro...just let me know either way before I get too far into the project again...

I must have missed the meeting where Sarge decided after all these years to turn his site into a Community Project. :)

With all due respect I think given all the bad feeling you generated during your Caligula style reign as webmaster, the fact you don't seem to have any background or knowledge in the field of IT, that your last input to this was so uninspiring half the members thought you had defrauded the site and finally that you continue to call a year to deliver a single logo picture as 'Outstanding Delivery' I would suggest you maybe take a backseat.

If I was Sarge I would be a bit concerned at the he should spend donations on 'Project Management' for this perhaps real character Melton to come to the site and play around with it.

This is the same guy who you said doesn't have a technical skillset? I think if we are going to pay someone for browsing the site we could probably find a few people willing to do it.

I may just be in work mode though and thinking the way I would in a professional IT environment.

How is the health store trade being affected by the recession?


Cheers!

:gulp:

[Panamark]

Good comment Mr Sesh, and at this point (lordy lordy do I have the
current facts) We need to know if Melton is more than a jpeg man ?
We have money in the coffers, obviously Melton owns 5 beach condos
on his jpegs, we are V FUCKING BULLETIN !!!

No dis on the Mez Man

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Its amazing how many people say they will help.
But I guess its sometimes hard to put your money where your mouth is.

Right. For all of the talk, four days into the project, we've had donations from nine, that's nine, people.... Fortunately, those nine have been quite generous, having donated a total (less Paypal fees) of $654.07 USD.

Fully understand, beggars can't be choosers, and times are tough, but you'd think we'd have some more input than this.....

Perhaps at the beginning of the month....

And Sesh, rest assured buddy, the funds are in my possession, and they won't be transferred until we (collectively) are assured they're going to be used towards the completion of the project....

[kwame k]

I'm just waiting for a check and then I'll put my money where my mouth is......hopefully Mon or Tues.

I've done web design HTML, XHTML, CSS and PHP. I've used Photoshop for years when I was in the Printing Industry and to do web design. Mostly designed in Dreamweaver and Adobe products.

Problem is.....I have zero knowledge of VB so I haven't offered any help because I figured I'd be in the way more than anything else.

[chefcraig]

Problem is.....I have zero knowledge of VB so I haven't offered any help because I figured I'd be in the way more than anything else.

Yeah, vbulletin is a bit quirky, and in the wrongs hands can be a disaster. But if used properly, it is a terrific little package that is truly user-friendly for the site's posters. There will be some initial confusion as folks get used to the format, but in the long run is an efficient platform.

[Mezro]

IWith all due respect I think given all the bad feeling you generated during your Caligula style reign as webmaster, the fact you don't seem to have any background or knowledge in the field of IT, that your last input to this was so uninspiring half the members thought you had defrauded the site and finally that you continue to call a year to deliver a single logo picture as 'Outstanding Delivery' I would suggest you maybe take a backseat.

This is exactly the type of honesty I wanted to hear. Other than 3 years as being the VP of Marketing for a design firm in Oakland where I helped creative direct, wrote proposals, and worked closely with designers, I don't have a solid enough background in IT for this. I can tell a designer what I want to see visually, but I don't understand the technical aspects of it all.


If I was Sarge I would be a bit concerned at the he should spend donations on 'Project Management' for this perhaps real character Melton to come to the site and play around with it.

"Project Management" fees are normal for this type of job. And at this point, Melton hasn't ask for any additional fees. Just stating that he might. Melton can't just hand off his design to a developer without being involved. How does the developer know anything about the global navigation. What sub-pages link where? No matter what developer you guys choose to produce, there are going to be problems and questions. Which one of you are going to walk them through that?


This is the same guy who you said doesn't have a technical skillset? I think if we are going to pay someone for browsing the site we could probably find a few people willing to do it.

I think you misunderstand. Melton is a competent designer but he is not a developer. I was asked by Sarge to find a designer; we had a developer in Miner. A good developer can produce any design. Think of a designer as the architect and the developer as the general contractor. And Melton is not being paid a cent to browse the site. He is in a discovery mode to try and anticipate questions a developer might have with the production.


I may just be in work mode though and thinking the way I would in a professional IT environment.

This is what I need man. Like I said before, I have no problem stepping away and be available in whatever capacity you guys need.


How is the health store trade being affected by the recession?

We work very hard and are quite fortunate. Both of our stores have grown the last two years even with the recession. It takes a plenty of effort but is well worth it. Thanks for asking.

Mezro...but I would like to see the site finished up...we all would...

[Mezro]

Good comment Mr Sesh, and at this point (lordy lordy do I have the
current facts) We need to know if Melton is more than a jpeg man ?
We have money in the coffers, obviously Melton owns 5 beach condos
on his jpegs, we are V FUCKING BULLETIN !!!

No dis on the Mez Man

No dis taken Mark. Sesh brings up some good points. I understand the concern. Like I said before, you guys can find a developer, I can have Melton send files to him, and both Melton & I can be done with our involvement. But someone here needs to project manage. Who is that going to be?

Mezro...without someone driving the project it is going to stall...

[Mezro]

I'm just waiting for a check and then I'll put my money where my mouth is......hopefully Mon or Tues.

I've done web design HTML, XHTML, CSS and PHP. I've used Photoshop for years when I was in the Printing Industry and to do web design. Mostly designed in Dreamweaver and Adobe products.

Problem is.....I have zero knowledge of VB so I haven't offered any help because I figured I'd be in the way more than anything else.

Do you know any developers that do work in VB?

Mezro...that would help...

[kwame k]

Do you know any developers that do work in VB?

Mezro...that would help...

Sure don't, man.

[Mezro]

Sure don't, man.

No worries man. Never hurts to ask.

Mezro...and the hunt continues...

[Guitar Shark]

Sarge knows I have his back if more funds are required.


The same goes for me too. I made a relatively small donation to start with, because I'm still not sure whether Sarge is even on board with this idea. But if he is, there's more where that came from. With the amount of entertainment this site has given me over the years, it's the least I can do...

[PETE'S BROTHER]

The same goes for me too. I made a relatively small donation to start with, because I'm still not sure whether Sarge is even on board with this idea. But if he is, there's more where that came from. With the amount of entertainment this site has given me over the years, it's the least I can do...

amen. i asked my brother if he could tackle such a project, but he said it is beyond his abilities right now.

[Mezro]

Hey Sesh, you are in the IT field right? I was thinking that you might be the perfect guy to manage this project. You are one of the original members, people respect and trust you, and you seem proactive enough to get the job done correctly. Plus, if you do it, that means I am no longer involved (which would make plenty of people happy). What do you think man?

Mezro...would this be something you are interested in?...

[flappo]

sesh is an it expert after all

sounds grate !!!

[Sarge]

So I had a good conversation with Melton (designer) last night. Let me give you guys an overview:

3. The estimate Melton sent Sarge is about 5 months old. The $500 quote was for development fees only. That could end up being higher on the development side if the scope of the project broadens. ..

The estimate I got from Melton was from 2/12/2010.
I didn't have any files from the design until 12/1/2009.

I can't really see how 6 weeks would make that much of a difference in development fees.

Sarge

[Sarge]

I agree with much of what Sesh is posting.
I am going to go with Mez/Melton on this.
I am going to unsticky this thread and start another.

[GAR]

I think we still need some feedback from the community if they even want me to be involved with the rest of this project.

If you are going to finish no matter what personal sacrifice comes of it I'm for it because it's bold of you to step up to the plate for the enjoyment of all, but forget some bells and whistles if you have to and finish it if something distracts.

[Sarge]

Also, if I hadn't mentioned it in the past. Thanks to Mezro for working with Melton on the design. It is kick-ass.

Breasts,
Sarge

[GAR]

Will the Poop return back to the Butt?

Will HitchWorld reattach to the Army?

[Mezro]

I can't really see how 6 weeks would make that much of a difference in development fees.

I don't know what that it will. I also don't know how deeply the developers scoped the projected before they put together their estimate.

Mezro...we will find out...

[Mezro]

I agree with much of what Sesh is posting.
I am going to go with Mez/Melton on this.
I am going to unsticky this thread and start another.

I agree with much of what Sesh is posting too. The guy made some solid points.

Mezro...we are going to keep you guys posted every step of the way...

[Mezro]

Also, if I hadn't mentioned it in the past. Thanks to Mezro for working with Melton on the design. It is kick-ass.

Breasts,
Sarge

Mezro...Thanks Chris. Sorry it took such a long fucking time to push the boulder up the hill....

[twonabomber]

can we get a "Thinks Steve Savicki is a JACKASS for thinking this is a worthless post" button?

add a "thinks GAR is a JACKASS for thinking this is a worthless post" button, too. or maybe just a "GAR is a JACKASS" smiley.

[Sensible Shoes]

I don't feel there is much I could offer, but for what it's worth - I am taking a basic class in development, and live with a person who teaches it to HS students at a local technical school. Perhaps if there is some tedious grunt work that a novice could handle, the one thing I do have is time.