The Hidden Wealth of the Catholic Church

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  • Hardrock69
    DIAMOND STATUS
    • Feb 2005
    • 21833

    The Hidden Wealth of the Catholic Church

    Frank Zappa once said: "Tax THE CHURCHES........tax the businesses OWNED by the churches".

    Seems if that were to be done, there would be a shitload of revenue for the tax authorities all over the world.


    The Catholic Church in Germany, already struggling to cope with the sex abuse scandal, has been hit by revelations of theft, opaque accounting and extravagance. While the grassroots faithful are being forced to make cutbacks, some bishops enjoy the trappings of the church's considerable hidden wealth.





    06/14/2010

    Financial Scandals

    The Hidden Wealth of the Catholic Church

    By Anna Catherin Loll and Peter Wensierski

    Photo Gallery: 4 Photos
    DPA

    The Catholic Church in Germany, already struggling to cope with the sex abuse scandal, has been hit by revelations of theft, opaque accounting and extravagance. While the grassroots faithful are being forced to make cutbacks, some bishops enjoy the trappings of the church's considerable hidden wealth.

    Shortly before Pentecost, Pastor S. received an unexpected early morning visit, not from the Holy Ghost, but from the police.

    For the authorities, the words of the Gospel of Luke came true on that morning: He who seeks finds. More than €131,000 ($158,000) were hidden in various places in the rooms of the Catholic priest, tucked in between his laundry or attached to the bottom of drawers. The reverend was arrested on the spot. After several weeks in custody, Hans S., 76, is now back at the monastery, waiting for his trial.

    And lo and behold, the proliferation of cash may have been even more miraculous than initially assumed. The public prosecutor's office in the southern city of Würzburg now estimates that S. may have embezzled up to €1.5 million from collections and other church funds. The members of his flock in a wine-growing village in the northern Bavarian region of Franconia are stunned. They had blindly trusted their shepherd, who always seemed so humble and modest.

    The Catholic Church is currently being shaken by a number of financial scandals, not only in Franconia but also in Augsburg, another Bavarian city, where Bishop Walter Mixa's dip into funds from a foundation that runs children's homes recently made headlines.

    More than €40 million have gone missing in the Diocese of Magdeburg in eastern Germany, €5 million have disappeared in Limburg near Frankfurt, and it was recently discovered that a senior priest in the Diocese of Münster had 30 secret bank accounts. And while parishes throughout Germany are cutting jobs and funds for community work, many bishops are still living on the high horse. A brand-new residence? An ostentatious home for their retirement? Restoration of a Marian column to the tune of €120,000? None of these expenditures presents a problem to high-ranking church officials from Trier in the west to Passau in the southeastern corner of Bavaria, whose coffers are brimming with cash.

    In many places, this blatant disparity, along with reports of mismanagement, misappropriation and pomposity have prompted the faithful to challenge church officials. They are accusing many bishops of just covering up the problem, as they did in the sex abuse scandal. They are determined not to allow anyone to see behind the curtain into their parallel world of bulging bank accounts and hidden assets, which, in some cases, have buttressed their power for centuries. The only aspect of church finances that is public is the diocesan budget, which derives its funding from the church tax -- but the church's true assets remain in the shadows.

    Growing Questions About Church Funding

    Now all of this wealth is becoming a political issue, however. The unemployed, recipients of housing assistance, families, communities, businesses, the military -- in the coming years, the federal government plans to deprive them all of billions of euros. But the church, of all things, is being spared, and hardly anyone questions the generous support it receives from the government.

    Financially speaking, Germany's dioceses are in excellent shape. "The Catholic Church claims that it's poor, but the truth is that it hides its wealth," says Carsten Frerk, a Berlin political scientist who, after years of research, is publishing "Violettbuch Kirchenfinanzen" (The Violet Book of Church Finances) this fall. Frerk estimates the cash assets of the church's legal entities at about €50 billion. The Catholics, who are not releasing their own figures, accuse Frerk of being a prejudiced, atheistic critic of the church.

    The assets, accumulated over the centuries, are invested in many areas, including real estate, church-owned banks, academies, breweries, vineyards, media companies and hospitals. The church also derives income from stock holdings, foundations and bequests. As a rule, all of this money flows into the accounts of the so-called bishop's see. Only a bishop and his closest associates are familiar with this shadow budget, which tax authorities are not required to review. The public budgets of dioceses consist of far less than their total finances.

    This complicated web is handled with such secrecy that not even the financial department heads of all dioceses openly discuss their finances with one another. Seemingly baroque structures make these finances even more difficult to fathom. Depending on the diocese, the administrators of the church's funds can be members of a church tax council, a diocesan tax panel, a financial board or an administrative board. Sometimes assets are also spun off into foundations.

    Of Germany's 27 Catholic dioceses, 25 refused to provide information in response to a SPIEGEL survey, noting that this information "is not made public." Only two dioceses, Magdeburg and the Archdiocese of Berlin, which was on the verge of bankruptcy a few years ago, were somewhat more accommodating, probably because they have so few assets to hide in the first place.

    Secret Assets

    The vicar general of a well-heeled diocese, on the other hand, said: "Yes, the assets in the bishop's see are secret. But perhaps it would be better if you wrote: confidential." When asked to explain this secretiveness, a spokeswoman of the Diocese of Limburg responded: "That's just the way it is." Finally, a representative of the German Bishops' Conference said: "I don't want to talk to you about this."

    Elected lay representatives at the base are hardly more successful. They face a wall of silence, even when they are responsible for financial supervision in their diocese. One of them is Herbert Steffen, whose congregation appointed him to the diocesan council in Trier. Steffen, 75, is not exactly a fierce critic. A former furniture manufacturer, he comes from an arch-Catholic family of entrepreneurs in the Moselle River region. His concern was as straightforward as it was conservative: He wanted to make sure that his diocese was in solid financial shape.

    The businessman was irritated by his experiences in the diocesan council. "I was surprised by the small size of the budget. It was something I thought we ought to look at," he says. At a council meeting, he asked a confidant of the bishop whether this was the entire budget. "There is also the budget of the bishop's see. But it isn't intended for the public," the official replied. When Steffen asked, "are you telling me that we can't see it, either?" the official said: "No!"

    Trier, Germany's oldest diocese, is a good example of the Catholic divide between rich and poor. Bishop Stephan Ackermann, who also oversees sex abuse cases for the German Bishops' Conference, can be quite generous in financial matters, particularly when they involve prestigious projects adjacent to his bishop's palace. For example, the diocese currently has €1 million earmarked for a planned renovation of the square behind Trier Cathedral. Local church authorities want to make sure that the area looks its best, just in case the pope decides to lead an annual pilgrimage to the "holy robe" in 2012, joining the faithful in worshipping a robe that supposedly contains scraps from the robe Jesus wore.

    On the other hand, subsidies for youth organizations and community centers are to be radically cut or eliminated altogether. Under the diocese's proposed cost-cutting program, a number of facilities would be shut down, including Catholic adult education offices, the Catholic Academy of Trier and Catholic student societies in Trier and the nearby cities of Saarbrücken and Koblenz.

    Those who would be affected by the cuts are outraged. "Our goal is to make the church more accessible," says Guido Gross, a pastor who ministers to university students, "but now they want to get rid of the entire field of activity." Lukas Rölli of the Confederation of Catholic Student Societies adds: "I will renounce my faith if the bishop signs this." For Rölli, the Catholic Church creates the impression that it "is trying to withdraw from society more and more, and back into the vestry."

    In Cologne, one of the world's wealthiest dioceses, there is also a wide gap between appearance and reality. Grassroots Catholics there have had to struggle to stay afloat financially. Churches have been closed while a shrinking number of priests have had to minister to bigger and bigger congregations in line with strict requirements outlined in austerity programs. Meanwhile, the Archdiocese of Cologne has a large budget of €863 million, and the assets of the archbishop's see are estimated at several billion euros. According to church critic Frerk's calculations, the diocese's holdings in a group of companies known as the Aachener Gesellschaften, which consist of about 26,000 residential and commercial units, were worth more than €1 billion in 2003.

    But the archbishop's financial officer makes little mention of all this good news. If he did, would the faithful be quite as willing to support all the cutbacks and cheerfully donate their money to pay for a new stained-glass window in the cathedral by the artist Gerhard Richter? For the archdiocese, it is always preferable to have others foot the bills, even when it comes to paying the archconservative Cardinal Joachim Meisner. Based on a centuries-old agreement, the government pays the diocese the cardinal's monthly stipend of about €11,300, which hasn't stopped Meisner from repeatedly attacked his sponsors for their godlessness and various "failings."

    Taxpayers' Money for German Churches

    Meisner and many of his fellow ministers aren't the only ones to receive public stipends. Year after year, both the Catholic Church and the Protestant Church in Germany receive generous payments from the federal, state and local governments. Not as well known as the church tax (about €10 billion a year) are the annual subsidies to the church, both direct and indirect, which in 2000 amounted to an estimated €17 billion.

    The government pays substantial sums of money for the maintenance and constant renovation of cathedrals and other church buildings. It pays the salaries of religion teachers and foots the bill for the altar wine used in church services for the military. Some benefits, such as the annual firewood deliveries a few southern German towns make to their bishop, are based on 200-year-old entitlements that politicians have never reviewed.

    Despite the constitutional separation of church and state in Germany, substantial subsidies are paid for church conferences, church libraries, pastors who minister to police officers, inmates of prisons and psychiatric institutions, and the military. The government even helps to pay for the employment of conscientious objectors, and for the maintenance of offering boxes and wayside crosses.

    The church likes to point out how much it does for the poor and the weak, and to promote social cohesion, and it has a valid argument. Nevertheless, the government foots the bill for many of these activities. The German government pays the bulk of the German Caritas Association's estimated annual budget of €45 billion, while the Catholic Church pays only a fraction.

    In guidelines published on March 15, the diocesan financial board in the Bavarian city of Regensburg, which manages the assets of the bishop's see, even specifies the conditions that must be met before it will contribute financially to the renovation of church-run kindergartens and shelters -- namely that it will only contribute if the local government "has contractually agreed to pay" two-thirds of total production costs" and is willing to guarantee payment of at least 80 percent of a potential operating cost deficit for "at least 25 years."

    Apparently the diocese is only interested in church-run kindergartens if the government assumes most of the cost. Does that mean the diocese would quickly abandon its compassionate care for the children of God if public funding were to dry up? In other dioceses in Germany, Catholic hospitals, schools and retirement homes are even fully government-funded.

    Church Pays no Taxes and is Unsupervised

    In return, the church is not even required to pay taxes: no property tax, no corporate tax and no capital gains tax. Everything it does as a public corporation in Germany is considered charitable, benevolent and tax-exempt. Unlike other public corporations like universities, the church is not subject to any state supervision.

    According to church law, "the Catholic Church has the innate right, independently of secular power, to acquire, own, manage and sell assets for the attainment of its own purposes." Defending this "innate right" and the billions backing it is one of the central functions of bishops.

    Complicated financial structures and secret coffers only become somewhat more visible to the public when perfidious administrators abuse them.

    This is a particularly glaring issue in the Diocese of Limburg at the moment. A few weeks ago, the head of a church financial administration, who had embezzled about €5 million, was sentenced to more than six years in prison. The man, who was also the managing director of the Catholic congregation in Limburg, had unimpeded access to church funds.

    "The embezzlement was surprisingly easy," the judge remarked. The problem was only discovered when the diocese recently began to introduce a new commercial accounting system. Until then, the Limburg bishops and their confidants could apparently dispose of their funds as they saw fit. The current Bishop of Limburg, Franz-Peter Tebartz-van Elst, had to admit that mistakes were made during financial audits.

    A Palace Fit for a Prince

    The diocese could easily afford such a careless approach to its finances, because the bishop's see appears to have plenty of cash. It is currently planning to build a new residence for the bishop, partly with funds from the bishop's see. Residents of the small city refer to the hill above Limburg, where the bishop will live behind the tall stone walls of a former aristocratic estate, as the "Acropolis."

    "Our bishop wants to be a prince again," the locals say mockingly. By contrast, his predecessor, Bishop Franz Kamphaus, chose to live modestly in a two-room apartment in the seminary instead of the old bishop's residence, which he turned over to a family of Ethiopian refugees for several years.

    What architects have designed for Tebartz-van Elst on the "Acropolis" is far more than a generous apartment with an on-site chapel. As part of the project, adjacent buildings will also require extensive renovation and conversion. New quarters will be needed for an order of nuns that will be moving in to ensure that His Excellency is well taken care of. And as part of a new security system for the cathedral museum, relocating one of the museum's emergency exits will cost €1.5 million alone. As an added benefit, it will be harder to disturb the bishop in his refuge in future.

    Meanwhile, the bishop has ordered his flock to live by the motto "Save and Renew." Limburg is one of the dioceses cutting back on parishes, masses and priests. In the surrounding villages, the faithful are hard at work collecting donations for the most urgent maintenance work on their churches. "The saving is happening at the base, while the renewing takes place elsewhere," says Henny Toepfer of the local chapter of the reform movement "We Are Church." She has trouble understanding why millions of euros are available for a new residence, but not to pay for buses to bring elderly Catholics from the villages to church services.

    The Lure of Financial Markets

    For some time now, the old-fashioned vices of pomposity and wastefulness have been joined by a thoroughly modern temptation for the financial administrators of the bishops' sees: the promise of turning a profit in global capital markets.

    Take, for example, Magdeburg. Hoping to solve its financial problems, the poverty-stricken diocese, which also has relatively few members, established a stock corporation called Gero AG. To increase earnings from interest and compound interest, Bishop Leo Nowak's confidants invested in real estate deals, ship partnerships, biogas plants and even controversial research into genetically modified plants. A priest in the administration of the diocese even blessed a greenhouse intended for use with genetically modified plants, in hopes that the church's pious investment would flourish.

    Today the bishop faces a financial mess. His diocese claims to have lost more than €40 million, while the press estimates the losses at about €100 million. Now the new executive board of Gero AG plans to restructure the ailing network of companies and holdings. The corporation has already sued its former managing director for damages.

    Why do the princes of the church refuse to be held accountable to their congregations? And why are they so careful to keep the government, which supports them so generously, out of their financial affairs?

    A former spokesman of a diocese has spent a lot of time thinking about these questions. He attributes the current problems to the pre-modern world of diocesan ordinariates and residences, which revolved around royal courts. "The bishops and prelates, with their colorful titles, feel superior to the Western world and shield themselves against it," he says. "The confessional stands in the church, not the offices of the tax authorities."
  • Nitro Express
    DIAMOND STATUS
    • Aug 2004
    • 32798

    #2
    You only have to look at the Mormon church which was $3 million in debt in the early 1900's due to borrowing to complete some buildings it couldn't afford. Then the church leadership decided to make cash tithing payment mandatory. The church paid off it's debt and had so much surplus money they build railroads, water works, power companies, various agricultural ventures. Today the business side of the Mormon church is bigger than the religious side. The members are basically used as cheap labor and missionaries are called to do office work or run church businesses without pay. It's one of the greatest scams in US history.

    Regarding the Catholic church, it's financial side and geo political side is where the real power resides. The Vatican actually is one of the biggest sources of banking power in the world, the church makes a nice facade.
    No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

    Comment

    • Hardrock69
      DIAMOND STATUS
      • Feb 2005
      • 21833

      #3
      The Emperor Constantine recognized that spiritual power was stronger and more long-lasting than force of arms. You cannot kill an idea or belief after all.
      Little did he know that 1700 years after his reign, the Church Of Satan....err...I mean, The Catholic Church is alive and well and has more money than God.

      Comment

      • ace diamond
        Full Member Status

        • Sep 2004
        • 3863

        #4
        Originally posted by Hardrock69
        The Emperor Constantine recognized that spiritual power was stronger and more long-lasting than force of arms. You cannot kill an idea or belief after all.
        Little did he know that 1700 years after his reign, the Church Of Satan....err...I mean, The Catholic Church is alive and well and has more money than God.
        the catholic church and the church of satan have nothing to do with one another.
        get you shit straight, bucko, before you open your trap.
        Originally posted by hideyoursheep
        When Hagar speaks, I want to cut off my ears and send them to Bristol Palin.
        "It's like trying to fit a mouse fart into a sardine can with a shoe horn"-Ace Diamond

        Comment

        • PETE'S BROTHER
          DIAMOND STATUS
          • Feb 2007
          • 12682

          #5
          Originally posted by ace diamond
          the catholic church and the church of satan have nothing to do with one another.
          get you shit straight, bucko, before you open your trap.
          you sir, are not smart. your church of satan would not exist without the bible and the church.
          Another one of those classic genius posts, sure to generate responses. You log on the next day to see what your witty gem has produced to find no one gets it and 2 knotheads want to stick their dicks in it... Well played, sir!!

          Comment

          • PETE'S BROTHER
            DIAMOND STATUS
            • Feb 2007
            • 12682

            #6
            spooky....http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html







            There are many speculations regarding why Anton LaVey chose these enigmatic words to conclude The Satanic Bible. However, Dr. LaVey wanted their significance to remain a mystery and we respect his wishes.

            He did record the song by that name on his album “Satan Takes a Holiday,” which was released by Amarillo Records and which has been re-released by Reptilian Records on their Adversary label. Some say this jaunty tune was one LaVey used to end his sets when playing organ in bars and nightclubs, but who can be certain that this is a clue?







            Click on the direct link above, or visit the Sources page and click on the link for the Emporium for ordering information, if you’d like to purchase this CD.
            Another one of those classic genius posts, sure to generate responses. You log on the next day to see what your witty gem has produced to find no one gets it and 2 knotheads want to stick their dicks in it... Well played, sir!!

            Comment

            • PETE'S BROTHER
              DIAMOND STATUS
              • Feb 2007
              • 12682

              #7
              Satanism
              Main article: Satanism
              Satanic groups have various opinions about Satan, ranging from the conviction that he exists and ought to be worshipped (theistic Satanism), to Anton Szandor LaVey's symbolic interpretation, which emphasizes individual will and pleasure-seeking.
              Much "Satanic" lore does not originate from actual Satanists, but from Christians. Best-known would be the medieval folklore and theology surrounding demons and witches. A more recent example is the so-called Satanic ritual abuse scare of the 1980s — beginning with the memoir Michelle Remembers — which depicts Satanism as a vast (and unsubstantiated) conspiracy of elites with a predilection for child abuse and human sacrifice. This genre regularly describes Satan as actually appearing in person in order to receive worship.
              Another one of those classic genius posts, sure to generate responses. You log on the next day to see what your witty gem has produced to find no one gets it and 2 knotheads want to stick their dicks in it... Well played, sir!!

              Comment

              • PETE'S BROTHER
                DIAMOND STATUS
                • Feb 2007
                • 12682

                #8
                your friends are stupid too, acehole.
                Another one of those classic genius posts, sure to generate responses. You log on the next day to see what your witty gem has produced to find no one gets it and 2 knotheads want to stick their dicks in it... Well played, sir!!

                Comment

                • Jagermeister
                  Full Member Status

                  • Apr 2010
                  • 4510

                  #9
                  Originally posted by PETE'S BROTHER
                  Satanism
                  Main article: Satanism
                  Satanic groups have various opinions about Satan, ranging from the conviction that he exists and ought to be worshipped (theistic Satanism), to Anton Szandor LaVey's symbolic interpretation, which emphasizes individual will and pleasure-seeking.
                  Much "Satanic" lore does not originate from actual Satanists, but from Christians. Best-known would be the medieval folklore and theology surrounding demons and witches. A more recent example is the so-called Satanic ritual abuse scare of the 1980s — beginning with the memoir Michelle Remembers — which depicts Satanism as a vast (and unsubstantiated) conspiracy of elites with a predilection for child abuse and human sacrifice. This genre regularly describes Satan as actually appearing in person in order to receive worship.

                  My parents thought I was into Satan because I listened to Kiss and Led Zep all the time. Little did they know that that probably would have been safer than all the drugs and alcohol I consumed.

                  Oh well.

                  Comment

                  • Nitro Express
                    DIAMOND STATUS
                    • Aug 2004
                    • 32798

                    #10
                    I got in big trouble for calling a Luciferian a Satanist. This was a girl in college from a well to do family. She was obsessed with doing certain rituals on certain days to the point of it being like obsessive compulsive disorder. She was a great fuck but her weirdness was tripping me out. I finally asked if she was a Satanist and she got really pissed and said no, we are Luciferian not that Satanist goth trash.

                    I guess here whole family was into it and from what I can tell, it's inversed Christianity where Jesus is the bad guy and Lucifer is the good guy. Jesus apparently is the controlling jelouse God who burdons us down with controlling rules where Lucifer wants us to be free, do what we want. They are very materialistic and believe in survival of the fittest and the weak get what they deserve. It's some dimented do as thy wilt shit. I dumped the bitch because her religion gave her a huge ego problem to say the least.
                    No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                    Comment

                    • Nitro Express
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 32798

                      #11
                      My sister and I ran loose in the papal palace in 1978. We had came out of the sistine chapel and on the way to St. Peter's you go through part of the papal palace. There were no Swiss guards and we were to meet the rest of our family at the obalisk in St. Peter's Square in an hour. Time to burn no security so we went exploring. I remember a bunch of nuns and a priest coming down the corridor and we went around a big column so they wouldn't see us. What I learned about the Vatican is out front they have all the biblical stuff but tucked away out of sight there is a lot of sun worship pagan stuff from the old Roman days and lot's of Egyptian stuff. The papal palace had lot's of suns and Egyptian stuff in it. Where the commoners go, you have the biblical art. I saw the double standard when I was a little kid.

                      I love to explore. I did the same at the Mormon Salt Lake Temple. If you go there for certain cerimonies you can only go to certain rooms. Basically all you see is the creation room, the world room, the terrestial room and the Celestial room. The people who work in the temple are old retired people. I was in the Celestial room and the old dude guarding the stairway went to take a leak and I booked it up the stairs. I ended up on the old Administrative floor where the church leaders used to have their offices. Now it's meeting rooms. I went up one of the cool spiral staircases in one of the towers that goes up to this very cool huge meeting hall. I never got busted. Unlike the vatican there wasn't any things that made you go hmmmmmmm. The Vatican was far more creepy and mysterious. The Salt Lake Temple is just a grand Victorian styled building that more resembled a nice turn of the century hotel than a religious building. The wierdest thing is wearing a bakers hat, a white robe and that fucking wierd green apron. The Mormon temple robes make great togas for toga parties though. I had a nice one with all the cool pleats. LOL!
                      No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                      Comment

                      • Nitro Express
                        DIAMOND STATUS
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 32798

                        #12
                        To be honest. I'll give the Vatican some credit. They have invaluable pieces of art all over that place and at least in the late 70's, it was suprisingly open. The Mormons on the other hand are very paranoid. When I was a kid I used to ride my skateboard around the church administrative buildings and nobody cared. As long as you weren't skate boarding on the temple grounds they seemed cool with it. Now you sit on the edge of the fountain and a security person will come out and tell you to get lost. I never got that kind of treatment at a Catholic church ever and I've been to plenty around the world. Sure it's a corrupt organization lying to it's membership and they have a huge pedafile problem but at least they make you feel welcome. LOL!
                        No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                        Comment

                        • Hardrock69
                          DIAMOND STATUS
                          • Feb 2005
                          • 21833

                          #13
                          Regardless of how evil one can say the Catholic Church is, yes, they have been around for a LONG time, and I someday would love to visit and see it. I probably would spend more time exploring the Roman ruins, the Appian Way, etc., but damn...the Sistine Chapel is quite possibly the greatest work of art on Earth.

                          So far the closest I have ever come to the Roman Empire was walking around London and Cambridge in the UK, and as you are driving on the M11 from Cambridge to London, there is a Roman road that intersects the motorway. It is pure, crushed white limestone, and it comes from the horizon, ends a couple of hundred feet from the motorway, then picks back up on the other side.

                          Comment

                          • ace diamond
                            Full Member Status

                            • Sep 2004
                            • 3863

                            #14
                            Originally posted by PETE'S BROTHER
                            you sir, are not smart. your church of satan would not exist without the bible and the church.
                            That is a 2 way street, pal.
                            Neither would exist without the other.
                            it's called:
                            "BALANCE"
                            'nuff said.
                            Originally posted by hideyoursheep
                            When Hagar speaks, I want to cut off my ears and send them to Bristol Palin.
                            "It's like trying to fit a mouse fart into a sardine can with a shoe horn"-Ace Diamond

                            Comment

                            • ace diamond
                              Full Member Status

                              • Sep 2004
                              • 3863

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Jagermeister
                              My parents thought I was into Satan because I listened to Kiss and Led Zep all the time. Little did they know that that probably would have been safer than all the drugs and alcohol I consumed.

                              Oh well.
                              same here..........

                              satanism, booze and plenty of drugs,along with a ton of KI$$, Led Zeppelin,
                              CVH, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, OZZY, Dio, Megadeth, Slayer, VENOM, etc....
                              i have enjoyed every minute of it.
                              no regrets.
                              Last edited by ace diamond; 06-24-2010, 06:50 PM.
                              Originally posted by hideyoursheep
                              When Hagar speaks, I want to cut off my ears and send them to Bristol Palin.
                              "It's like trying to fit a mouse fart into a sardine can with a shoe horn"-Ace Diamond

                              Comment

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