Israel needs to tell Obama to go fuck himself

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  • BigBadBrian
    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
    • Jan 2004
    • 10620

    Israel needs to tell Obama to go fuck himself

    In Curt Exchange, U.S. Faults Israel on Housing

    WASHINGTON — President Obama’s criticism of new Israeli housing plans for East Jerusalem, and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s even sharper retort, have thrown the Middle East peace talks into jeopardy, with the dispute over Jewish settlements looming as a seemingly insuperable hurdle.

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel this week urged a tougher line on Iran.
    The Obama administration is struggling to restart direct negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians, which stalled last month after the expiration of a partial freeze on settlement construction in the West Bank. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton plans to meet Mr. Netanyahu in New York on Thursday, while Egypt sent two top officials to Washington to discuss ways to salvage the process.

    But the brusque exchange between Mr. Obama and Mr. Netanyahu reflected again the gulf between Israel and the United States over settlements — an issue Mr. Obama initially made the centerpiece of his Middle East diplomacy. Palestinian officials said Israel’s latest announcement threatened the talks and could prompt a unilateral declaration of a Palestinian state.

    When asked in about Israel’s plans for 1,000 housing units for a contested part of East Jerusalem, Mr. Obama said, “This kind of activity is never helpful when it comes to peace negotiations.”

    “I’m concerned that we’re not seeing each side make the extra effort involved to get a breakthrough,” the president added during his visit to Indonesia. “Each of these incremental steps can end up breaking trust.”

    A few hours later, Mr. Netanyahu’s office responded with a statement, saying that “Jerusalem is not a settlement; Jerusalem is the capital of the State of Israel.”

    The United States and Israel have well-known differences over Jerusalem, Mr. Netanyahu’s office said in the statement, adding that building plans should have no effect on the peace talks.

    Despite their efforts to build mutual trust, Mr. Obama and Mr. Netanyahu seem to keep talking past each other. On Tuesday, they were worlds apart in symbolism as well as substance: the president voiced his criticism of Israel while on a visit to Jakarta, capital of the world’s most populous Muslim country.

    Mr. Netanyahu was in New York, meeting business people, midway through a visit to the United States that included a speech to a Jewish group in New Orleans on Monday, in which he called on Washington to be more aggressive in threatening Iran with a military strike if it did not give up its nuclear program.

    Analysts said Mr. Netanyahu’s unyielding tone — a palpable contrast to his chagrined reaction after a similar housing dispute during a visit to Israel by Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. — testified to the altered political environment in the United States. The stinging Democratic defeat in the midterm elections, the analysts said, had emboldened Mr. Netanyahu to push back harder against the administration.

    “He is dealing with a president who is politically weakened,” said Daniel C. Kurtzer, a former American ambassador to Israel. “A lot of his friends in Washington are Republicans. He feels more comfortable with them, so he just feels that he’s got a freer hand here.”

    Israel’s ambassador to the United States, Michael B. Oren, rejected that view. “We’re not looking for a confrontation with the Obama administration,” he said.

    He said Mr. Netanyahu was eager to discuss with Mrs. Clinton “how we are going to move forward, once we get over this hump.”

    But Mr. Oren declined to say whether Mr. Netanyahu would offer new proposals for breaking the impasse. The United States has asked him to extend the settlement freeze for 60 days in return for security incentives.

    Israeli officials have said Mr. Netanyahu is hemmed in by his right-wing coalition, which opposes extending the freeze. Some officials said that by taking a hard line on Israel’s right to build in Jerusalem, Mr. Netanyahu might gain the political cover to compromise over the West Bank.

    On Wednesday, Mrs. Clinton will meet with Egypt’s foreign minister, Ahmed Aboul Gheit, and its intelligence chief, Omar Suleiman. Egypt is worried by the impasse, and American officials said they expected the Egyptians to advance their own ideas for resuscitating the talks, which could include an Israeli pledge to withdraw troops from parts of the West Bank.

    Whether that would be enough to satisfy the Palestinians without an extension of the settlement freeze is not clear. In another gesture to the Palestinians, Mrs. Clinton will announce the United States’ annual financial contribution to the Palestinian Authority on Wednesday, an administration official said.

    Mr. Netanyahu has supported Mr. Obama’s mix of engagement and sanctions against Iran. But in his speech to the Jewish Federations of North America in New Orleans, he called for a more aggressive approach.

    “If the international community, led by the United States, hopes to stop Iran’s nuclear program without resorting to military action,” he declared, “it will have to convince Iran that it is prepared to take such action.”

    Dan Diker, a senior foreign policy analyst at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, said the speech was calculated to “push the military option to the top paragraph of the policy from the third or fourth paragraph.”

    But Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said that the threat of military action was not the best way to deter Tehran. Mr. Gates said the recent United Nations sanctions against the Iranian government were starting to bite.

    Israel’s housing announcement came in the form of plans published for public review in local newspapers on Friday, just before Mr. Netanyahu headed to Washington. As with previous announcements, Israeli officials said the timing was determined bureaucratically, not politically.

    Still, the timing raised questions about what Mr. Netanyahu knew and when. After Mr. Biden’s visit to Israel was spoiled last March by a similar announcement that Mr. Netanyahu said was a surprise to him, American officials told the Israelis that they wanted no more surprises.

    At the time, Mr. Netanyahu’s aides said he sent out letters demanding lists of future settlement plans to avoid surprises while peace talks were under way. It was unclear whether Mr. Netanyahu knew about this one before it was published in newspapers last week. On Tuesday, it also became clear that some 800 units would be built in the West Bank settlement of Ariel.

    Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian negotiator, said Israel’s action was “a call for immediate international recognition of the Palestinian state.”

    The Palestinian leadership has been talking about shifting its focus to getting international recognition of a Palestinian state if settlement building continued and the peace talks remained stalled. The Obama administration and Arab states have urged it not to go that route.

    LINK
    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush
  • Seshmeister
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    • Oct 2003
    • 35153

    #2
    You would maybe change your mind if a native American stole your house, stuck you on a shitty bit of land and then built a huge wall around it.

    Comment

    • DavidLeeNatra
      TOASTMASTER GENERAL
      • Jan 2004
      • 10703

      #3
      Originally posted by Seshmeister
      You would maybe change your mind if a native American stole your house, stuck you on a shitty bit of land and then built a huge wall around it.
      been there three weeks ago...it's not as simple as that...and I'm not taking sides...
      Roth Army Icon
      First official owner of ADKOT (Deluxe Version)

      Comment

      • chefcraig
        DIAMOND STATUS
        • Apr 2004
        • 12172

        #4
        Israel needs to tell Obama to go fuck himself
        At this point, I believe you have that backwards.









        “The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
        ― Stephen Hawking

        Comment

        • BigBadBrian
          TOASTMASTER GENERAL
          • Jan 2004
          • 10620

          #5
          Originally posted by Seshmeister
          You would maybe change your mind if a native American stole your house, stuck you on a shitty bit of land and then built a huge wall around it.
          Israel had claims to that land long before the Palestinianoterrorits did.
          “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

          Comment

          • BigBadBrian
            TOASTMASTER GENERAL
            • Jan 2004
            • 10620

            #6
            Originally posted by chefcraig
            At this point, I believe you have that backwards.
            Please do a little more reading on the subject and see the following POST.
            “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

            Comment

            • chefcraig
              DIAMOND STATUS
              • Apr 2004
              • 12172

              #7
              Originally posted by BigBadBrian
              Please do a little more reading on the subject and see the following POST.
              Right, you are telling me to educate myself on a subject I've been following more than half my life. Quite frankly, I've about had it with discussing the Israel/Palestine conflict, mainly because it never seems to go anywhere. It seems that for about the past 25 years, anyone offering a dissenting opinion of voices coming out of Israel, be the thoughts cultural, political or philosophical in content, is labeled as an insensitive anti Semite. Ths defense has it's base in actions that took place in WWII. To me, this isn't political discourse, and quite frankly it barely qualifies as guarded rhetoric. What it does boil down to is the sort of tit for tat bickering you'd find in a high school debate class for underachievers. (Come to think of it, this pretty much crystallizes about 85% of what passes for political theater on the entire planet these days.) And the sad upshot to this crap is nothing, nothing gets accomplished. It's merely a show full of smoke and mirrors, yielding more heat than light. The fact is, it's all a remarkably astounding waste of time.

              The reality of the situation is this: The so-called "peace process" has been tripping over itself since sometime before the Carter administration, and in that time nothing has changed, despite the efforts of several different U.S. administrations since the seventies. People are still dying every day because of the conflict, yet both sides continue to bicker back and forth because apparently, this is the status quo they have become accustomed to. So as I said earlier, maybe it would be a good idea for the U.S. to give up altogether, and let the combatants settle things amongst themselves. Of course that isn't going to happen, so yet another administration finds it's hands tied, it's money wasted and ultimately, with absolutely zero chance of any reconciliation in sight.









              “The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
              ― Stephen Hawking

              Comment

              • FORD
                ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                • Jan 2004
                • 58755

                #8
                Originally posted by BigBadBrian
                Israel had claims to that land long before the Palestinianoterrorits did.
                Those Russian bastards like NuttyYahoo have about as much relation to the family lines of Abraham and Moses as they do the Vulcan family line of Mr Spock.
                Eat Us And Smile

                Cenk For America 2024!!

                Justice Democrats


                "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                Comment

                • Nitro Express
                  DIAMOND STATUS
                  • Aug 2004
                  • 32797

                  #9
                  Originally posted by FORD
                  Those Russian bastards like NuttyYahoo have about as much relation to the family lines of Abraham and Moses as they do the Vulcan family line of Mr Spock.
                  I hate the whole special bloodline concept. It basically says God plays favorites and anyone without Abraham and Sarah blood are shit. It's more about controlling populations of people and having an excuse to justify bad behavior than anything. We just need to tell these Jews and Muslims they are nothing special and we can stop enabling the madness by ignoring them. But certain people want to control the middle east resources and it sells lots of weapons. Enabling it makes a few filthy rich while making most our lives miserable.

                  I say pull out, make oil obsolete with new technology, and let these holier than thou bastards fight over the Oasis, the holy land, and the women like they have been doing for thousands of years. Let them live in the stone age while we focus on more productive things.
                  No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                  Comment

                  • Nitro Express
                    DIAMOND STATUS
                    • Aug 2004
                    • 32797

                    #10
                    The reality is Jews and muslims got along fairly well in the middle east until the Zionists out of Europe came in and started thinking they were special. There have always been Jews in the middle east and then you have these Khazar converts playing high and mighty coming in. I think it had more to do with European bankers wanting a base of operations they controlled close to the Suez canal and oil fields than religion.
                    No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                    Comment

                    • Nitro Express
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 32797

                      #11
                      Bringing peace to the middle east is about as realistic as making Sammy Hagar music good. It's impossible and a waste of time.
                      No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                      Comment

                      • FORD
                        ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                        • Jan 2004
                        • 58755

                        #12
                        Jerusalem should not be anybody's capitol. It should be an independent city-state of its own. Israel should keep Tel Aviv as their capitol, and a Palestinian state should exist with some other city as their capitol. Jerusalem shouldn't belong to either one.

                        And the fact that NuttyYahoo spelled it "capital" says a lot about his true motivations, for that matter.
                        Eat Us And Smile

                        Cenk For America 2024!!

                        Justice Democrats


                        "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                        Comment

                        • FORD
                          ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                          • Jan 2004
                          • 58755

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Nitro Express
                          The reality is Jews and muslims got along fairly well in the middle east until the Zionists out of Europe came in and started thinking they were special. There have always been Jews in the middle east and then you have these Khazar converts playing high and mighty coming in. I think it had more to do with European bankers wanting a base of operations they controlled close to the Suez canal and oil fields than religion.

                          The Bible actually predicted this, believe it or not. There are several references to "those who say they are Jews but are not, they are the Synagogue of Satan".
                          Eat Us And Smile

                          Cenk For America 2024!!

                          Justice Democrats


                          "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                          Comment

                          • chefcraig
                            DIAMOND STATUS
                            • Apr 2004
                            • 12172

                            #14
                            The real problem with the whole debate is the idea of using the Bible as a basis of historical archeology. Wouldn't it be a pisser if the territory the Israelites claimed as the holy land was in fact in the wrong geographic location? This sure would blow a hole in the idea of entitlement, as the logic is pretty much like some guy approaching your station wagon in the Denny's parking lot and claiming it as his own, since he "discovered" it. This makes as much sense as Columbus discovering America. How in hell do you "discover" a country, when there are people on the shore waving back at you as your boat sails into the harbor? (Stole that last line from a comedian who's name escapes my memory at the moment.)









                            “The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
                            ― Stephen Hawking

                            Comment

                            • Nitro Express
                              DIAMOND STATUS
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 32797

                              #15
                              The bible is History. His Story. It's been written and rewritten to justify someone's political agenda. The history of temple systems is they are used to control the populations of people who are subject to this system. If anything, I think the concept was borrowed from the Babylonians who invented it.

                              The Mormons are a good example. They want as many temples as possible because this is how they control the church population. Attending the temple is required to be a member in good standing and not attending means they endlessly pressure you to go and you will be the third class citizen in the church without temple attending status. How do you get this status? You pay at least 10% of your gross earnings to the church, marry another member in the temple, and do everything the church leaders tell you to do. On top of that, non temple attending members cannot attend temple weddings so they throw it in your face there as well. Temples are all about control, always have been and always will be.

                              It was huge business in Jesus's day where everyone had to come to Jerusalem and spend lots of money. The high priests lived well off the spoils. It was a racket then as it is a racket now.
                              No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                              Comment

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