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  • ELVIS
    Banned
    • Dec 2003
    • 44120

    U n c o n s t i t u t i o n a l

    RICHMOND, VA - A federal court ruled Monday that a central plank of the health law violates the Constitution, dealing the biggest setback yet to the Obama administration's signature legislative accomplishment.

    A federal judge ruled today that Congress exceeded its "constitutional boundaries" when it required most Americans to carry health insurance or pay a fine. The Journal's Peter Landers and Simon Constable discuss the potential fallout.

    In a 42-page ruling, U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson said the law's requirement that most Americans carry insurance or pay a penalty "exceeds the constitutional boundaries of congressional power."

    The individual mandate "would invite unbridled exercise of federal police powers," wrote Judge Hudson, of the Eastern District of Virginia. "At its core, this dispute is not simply about regulating the business of insurance—or crafting a scheme of universal health insurance coverage—it's about an individual's right to choose to participate."

    The lawsuit, brought by Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, is the first court ruling against the law since President Barack Obama signed it in March. More than 20 federal lawsuits have been filed against the overhaul, and judges in two of those cases ruled in favor of the Obama administration.

    While the ruling creates a headache for the law's supporters, it doesn't mean states or the federal government must stop implementing the law.

    Judge Hudson didn't grant the plaintiffs' request for an immediate nationwide injunction against the entire law or against the requirement that most Americans carry insurance. That requirement, known as the individual mandate, begins in 2014. The judge also said his ruling only applies to the individual mandate and the provisions of the law that are directly dependent on it.

    "At its core, this dispute is not simply about regulating the business of insurance -- or crafting a scheme of universal health coverage -- it's about an individual's right to choose to participate."

    The Supreme Court is expected ultimately to settle the issue after the Virginia case and similar challenges wind their way through the courts.

    Administration officials say the ruling amounts to an attack on one of the law's most popular provisions, the ban on insurers denying coverage to people with pre-existing health conditions. That piece of the law can't work unless coupled with a requirement that nearly all Americans carry insurance, they say.

    "We are disappointed in today's ruling but continue to believe—as other federal courts in Virginia and Michigan have found—that the Affordable Care Act is constitutional," said Justice Department spokeswoman Tracy Schmaler. "There is clear and well-established legal precedent that Congress acted within its constitutional authority in passing this law, and we are confident that we will ultimately prevail."

    The administration has downplayed the outcome of the challenge by Mr. Cuccinelli, a Republican, saying it received outsize attention because of his visibility.

    For opponents of the law, Monday's ruling is the first victory in a multifaceted attack designed to help Republicans take back the White House in 2012. Republicans see the court battle as one way to express their opposition to the law.

    The Obama administration argues that since all Americans at some point get health-care services, a requirement to carry health insurance is simply a way of regulating how consumers pay for their care. The Constitution gives Congress the power to regulate interstate commerce.

    In his ruling, Judge Hudson wrote that the Interstate Commerce Clause wasn't sufficient for Congress to establish the individual mandate. He said Congress lacked precedent for "regulation of a person's decision not to purchase a product, notwithstanding its effect on interstate commerce or role in a global regulatory scheme."

    Judge Hudson took some jabs at the law. In discussing whether Congress intended the law to stand if the mandate weren't included, he wrote that it was difficult to assess "given the haste with which the final version of the 2,700-page bill was rushed to the floor for a Christmas Eve vote."

    He said the court was finding invalid only the part of the law that establishes the individual mandate, and any directly dependent provisions that refer to that part.

    Exactly what that applies to is unclear.

    The Obama administration says that without the individual mandate, it could no longer require insurers to provide coverage to people with pre-existing conditions because that would create an unhealthy pool of consumers and drive up insurance prices for everyone.

    But the administration argues that, should the mandate ultimately be struck down, courts should uphold most of the rest of the law. That would include the expansion of Medicaid to 16 million Americans, tax subsidies to help lower earners buy insurance and the creation of new exchanges where consumers can comparison shop for policies.

    The health overhaul is designed to expand insurance to 32 million Americans. Without the requirement to carry insurance, the Obama administration predicts, the law would leave an additional 16 million Americans uninsured.

    States and companies in the health industry say they are forging ahead with responding to the law, and Monday's decision is unlikely to change those plans.

    "We don't anticipate an adverse ruling at the district-court level in Virginia or in any other case to materially impede implementation of the act across the full range of its many provisions," an Obama administration official said.


  • jhale667
    DIAMOND STATUS
    • Aug 2004
    • 20929

    #2
    It's already come out that the Judge in this case has a HUGE conflict of interest going on, and the decision is by no means a shocker in light of that. Also means it'll probably get overturned.
    Originally posted by conmee
    If anyone even thinks about deleting the Muff Thread they are banned.... no questions asked.

    That is all.

    Icon.
    Originally posted by GO-SPURS-GO
    I've seen prominent hypocrite liberal on this site Jhale667


    Originally posted by Isaac R.
    Then it's really true??:eek:

    The Muff Thread is really just GONE ???

    OMFG...who in their right mind...???
    Originally posted by eddie78
    I was wrong about you, brother. You're good.

    Comment

    • ELVIS
      Banned
      • Dec 2003
      • 44120

      #3
      The TV tell you that ??

      Comment

      • jhale667
        DIAMOND STATUS
        • Aug 2004
        • 20929

        #4
        Originally posted by ELVIS
        The TV tell you that ??
        Like I'm watching TV in the office...moron.
        Originally posted by conmee
        If anyone even thinks about deleting the Muff Thread they are banned.... no questions asked.

        That is all.

        Icon.
        Originally posted by GO-SPURS-GO
        I've seen prominent hypocrite liberal on this site Jhale667


        Originally posted by Isaac R.
        Then it's really true??:eek:

        The Muff Thread is really just GONE ???

        OMFG...who in their right mind...???
        Originally posted by eddie78
        I was wrong about you, brother. You're good.

        Comment

        • FORD
          ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

          • Jan 2004
          • 58785

          #5
          I have a feeling this is going to the Supreme Court. This of course, creates quite the dilemma for Opie Roberts....

          Does he allow his solid record of ruling in favor of the corporations fall, in order to rule against a "Democratic" (and I use the term loosely) President?

          In this case, I hope he lets partisanship take over. I never liked this fucking mandate bullshit myself.

          Too bad the Democrats in the House won't do the right thing with their short time remaining, and just pass HR 676, then ram it through the Senate on Christmas eve (when none of the cowards are there to vote against it) so the question of insurance corporate criminals becomes entirely irrelevant.
          Eat Us And Smile

          Cenk For America 2024!!

          Justice Democrats


          "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

          Comment

          • FORD
            ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

            • Jan 2004
            • 58785

            #6
            BTW, yesterday was the 10 year anniversary of the BCE Supreme Court's first assault against the Constitutional Democratic Republic

            December 12, 2000 - a day that will forever live in infamy. And this country still has not recovered from it.
            Eat Us And Smile

            Cenk For America 2024!!

            Justice Democrats


            "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

            Comment

            • Nitro Express
              DIAMOND STATUS
              • Aug 2004
              • 32798

              #7
              It's clearly unconstitutional because the federal government only can regulate interstate commerce if you buy something across states lines. The feds can't use that regulation to force you into buying something. The companies will just dump everyone's health insurance and pay the $2000 fine because the insurance will cost a fortune. Then we have that nice tax on home sales they snuck into the bill and 42 new government agencies. If you think the TSA is bad, wait until this gets going.

              I say defund it, let it rot, and sink the fucker like prohibition and start the fuck over.
              No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

              Comment

              • Nitro Express
                DIAMOND STATUS
                • Aug 2004
                • 32798

                #8
                Let's see, the congress gave the Federal Reserve a blank check. Ben Bernanke gave $13 Trillion to his banker friends. They are now making record profits and enjoying 0% no collateral loans from the Fed. Meanwhile the middle class stave, get taxed and regulated to death, and their interest and fees jacked. This is your US Government in action.

                They should have just let the banks fail and bought everyone healthcare. It would have been far cheaper.
                No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                Comment

                • Little Texan
                  Full Member Status

                  • Jan 2004
                  • 4579

                  #9
                  The article said that two judges ruled in favor of the Obama Administration, and this one ruled against. I guess the health insurance companies didn't pay this judge enough, then.

                  I'm glad the judge ruled that this mandate shit is unconstitutional, because that is exactly what it is, and it is main issue that I and the majority of Americans have had with this turd of a law from the start. Hopefully this holds up and people aren't forced to buy something that they either can't afford or don't want.

                  Comment

                  • kwame k
                    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                    • Feb 2008
                    • 11302

                    #10
                    Look, anything Mandated is by no means an acceptable solution.........what needs to happen is AFFORDABLE health care for all! I'll repeat it for those here who have an attention span of a mosquito, AFFORDABLE health care. It's not that hard to do and we can afford to do it.

                    If you don't believe that it's possible than the anti-health care special interests have done their job.
                    Originally posted by vandeleur
                    E- Jesus . Playing both sides because he didnt understand the argument in the first place

                    Comment

                    • FORD
                      ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                      • Jan 2004
                      • 58785

                      #11
                      It's only going to become truly affordable when the profit motive is taken out of the equation. Expanding Medicare into a single payer system for all would be the most obvious way to do this. If private insurance corporations are allowed to play a part at all, then they should be legally required to be non-profit corporations, as is the case in Switzerland.
                      Eat Us And Smile

                      Cenk For America 2024!!

                      Justice Democrats


                      "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                      Comment

                      • kwame k
                        TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                        • Feb 2008
                        • 11302

                        #12
                        Oh, but the single payer option is just plain socialism, FORD...........the medical industry has to make billions of dollars of profit, if they don't or someone wants to make common sense laws against these bastards it's considered bad for the country!!!!!!!!!! One of the biggest costs to most Americans is health care and yet the sheep out there bought into the notion that having affordable health care was bad for Americans......
                        Originally posted by vandeleur
                        E- Jesus . Playing both sides because he didnt understand the argument in the first place

                        Comment

                        • FORD
                          ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                          • Jan 2004
                          • 58785

                          #13
                          Some things NEED to be "socialized". The recent "privatized fire department" fiasco in Kentucky should have proven that beyond any reasonable doubt.

                          I'm on the same page with Thom Hartmann and Mike Malloy when they call for a form of "Democratic Socialism", with banking, energy, health care, infrastructure, and defense being the areas taken out of the profit motive corporate hands.
                          Eat Us And Smile

                          Cenk For America 2024!!

                          Justice Democrats


                          "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                          Comment

                          • kwame k
                            TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                            • Feb 2008
                            • 11302

                            #14
                            Of course those things should be socialized or better yet, taxpayer funded. Service given for money (our tax dollars) rendered.

                            Shouldn't we expect or demand the necessities for living in a modern world? When I dial 911 I want a cop, fireman or an ambulance there. When I drive to work I want safe roads, gas that meets a minimum standard. I want running water and trash service, for these things I'm willing to spend money/taxes.

                            Why in the fuck wouldn't I want to spend a reasonable or an affordable amount of money/taxes for something that might save my life, like health care.
                            Originally posted by vandeleur
                            E- Jesus . Playing both sides because he didnt understand the argument in the first place

                            Comment

                            • Nitro Express
                              DIAMOND STATUS
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 32798

                              #15
                              We had a great healthcare system. Then society got too greedy. The patients got greedy. The lawyers got greedy. The politicians got greedy. The doctors got greedy. The drug companies got greedy. Everyone felt entitled to milk the system.

                              The reality is if this universal greed can sink a once great free market system, why wouldn't it sink a government ran system? Everyone will fleece the government system too until it's a huge fiasco.

                              I think the real problem is rampant greed and until people behave better, no system is going to work.

                              Another thing I don't like about Obamacare is it makes it illegal for doctors to practice medicine for free. I've personally seen cases where doctors are paid in barter or they just provide services for free to needy families. I know one doctor who took a cow as payment for setting a broken leg. That will all be illegal.
                              Last edited by Nitro Express; 12-14-2010, 03:16 AM.
                              No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                              Comment

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