Eat 'Em and Smile Vs. 5150, the breakup revisted

[Unchainme]

Was curious about this, as tbis was probably the first time a good portion of the board was able to instantly decifer that Hagar was shit, and Dave was the real brains behind the magic of Classic Van Halen.

The only thing I come close to even to saying something similiar, was picking up BOV1, and seeing..like this immediate dropoff of quality after "Panama", as it seg-wayed into "Why can't this be love".

But yeah, my question is this? what was your reaction to the news of the breakup? and did you buy 5150 and EEAS to judge for yourself which half was best?

[PETE'S BROTHER]

tryin' to figure out which song "tbis" was for half a joint

[PETE'S BROTHER]

never bought 5150......

[chefcraig]

You couldn't instantly decide much of anything (other than Hagars's astronomical amount of suck) because 5150 came out around 4 or 5 months before EEAS. The way information was spread back then, with no internet the only updates you could get were from magazines that pretty much came out once a month, from radio (and who knew were they got their info) or from MTV. Hell, I didn't know who was in Roth's band until I had the album cover in my hands. I did buy the single of "Yankee Rose", as it came out a short while before the album, and was blown away by the "Shyboy" B-side. Yet when I finally got the album, it really felt odd. I mean I loved EEAS, but when I truly thought about it, I realized that there was a third album somewhere in between 5150 and EEAS that would have been a hell of a lot better than either of them.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

"why can't this song suck more" was the first single released? no? horrible. dit dit doo doo doo.........

[VAiN]

Ha! Look what I just stumbled upon... this writer is dead wrong though... hagar is completely responsible for committing non-stop lyrical felonies....

In defense of Van Hagar ...

[kwame k]

To be honest...at first I sided with the "musicians". Loved Dave but thought the Van Halens were the true musical brains.

They played the shit out of 5150 on the local radio station......heard "Helloooooo baaaaaaaby" wasn't too impressed. A friend had a copy and I listened to it 2 or 3 times......between the lame electronic drum sound, the ballad, and lack luster lyrics wasn't a big fan of it.

EEAS......convinced me Dave was the brains behind VH. Great album and far better than 5150.

After listening to OU812 a few times I gave up completely on Van Hagar and was more interested in what Dave was doing.

[Terry]

5150 was pretty much a letdown. If I recall correctly, WCTBL was released as a single shortly before the album, and wasn't a positive sign. However, I wasn't all that thrilled with Jump either, yet the rest of 1984 I quite enjoyed. So, based on that I put my misgivings aside and bought 5150 when it was released. Right from the get-go when Good Enough started things off, there were several factors that pretty much became the blueprint for the Hagar years:

1) The production values regarding sonics had changed, and not for the better. Ed's tone, once crisp and clear, had degenerated into a mid-frequency slush.

2) The diversity of CVH in terms of style was replaced by a fairly limited focus once Hagar joined. With some exceptions, it seemed all Van Hagar were capable of churning out were keyboard driven pop songs/ballads or fairly uninspired, middle-of-the-road rock tunes.

3) The sense of humor contained in Roth's lyrics vanished along with Dave. Hagar seemed to have cribbed his lyrics from an assortment of Hallmark greeting cards.

4) Vocally, after reading for 6 months how according to EVH "Sam is just a better singer than Dave" I was a bit puzzled as to how he drew that conclusion. Hagar had a higher natural key than Dave, and sang nearly every song in that key (which sounds like a cat in heat at 3AM when you have to get up early for work the next day). Just this annoying screechy wail, and the really odd part is that his previous solo stuff wasn't quite like that re: his delivery. While never an exceptional singer, to be fair his solo material pre-1985 was somewhat listenable as to HOW he sang. I mean, I could hear his stuff on the radio without it resulting in grabbing for a bottle of Advil.

In addition, Alex's drums on 5150 sounded awful. Although rectified on subsequent albums, the near exclusive use of cheesy electronic drums (yeah, yeah, the 5150 studio drum room wasn't finished yet, wah wah wah) on that album just sounded like shite.

I did (and still do) enjoy the guitar work on the title track.


Eat 'Em and Smile just came out with guns blazing. I mean, fuck, Vai was doing some jaw-dropping guitar work and Sheehan was burning up the fretboard (his fucking BASS had a Kahler tremolo...when I first heard the unison guitar/bass work on Shyboy I literally couldn't believe my ears).

The tracks I'm Easy and That's Life didn't really mean much to me then, and haven't exactly aged any better 25 years later. I suppose the harshest thing I could say about the tunes overall is that some of them tend to be little more than vehicles for Vai's solos at times (although I dig what Roth did lyrically on them, Elephant Gun and Big Trouble seem to fall in this category for me - might be sacreligious to some, but am just calling them likes I see them). Bump 'N Grind is a bit weak in comparison to the best the album has to offer.

Even with those faults, I'd say EEAS came much closer to approximating the style, sonics, fury and energy that CVH represented to me than 5150 ever did. I mean, Good Enough to me just came across like Van Halen doing a parody of the CVH style, and Hagar's attempt to pull a Roth, particularly with that post-solo spoken section, was fuckin' cringeworthy.

[VAiN]

I mean, Good Enough to me just came across like Van Halen doing a parody of the CVH style, and Hagar's attempt to pull a Roth, particularly with that post-solo spoken section, was fuckin' cringeworthy.

You are correct, I have a bootleg - New Haven, CT 1984 and you can clearly hear Eddie playing the main riff to (not)Good Enough throughout the break in Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love... fuck, what could have been...

[sadaist]

EEAS......convinced me Dave was the brains behind VH. Great album and far better than 5150.

Same. It sounded more like classic Van Halen than 5150 did...by far. As far as 5150 goes, I still really dig the song "5150". Just wish I could find a copy without any vocals. It is my favorite example of Alex's drumming. So many fills & rolls & trills...or whatever the fuck you guys call them. That is my favorite song to air drum to ( and the Jamies Cryin' riff of course).

[Unchainme]

Same. It sounded more like classic Van Halen than 5150 did...by far. As far as 5150 goes, I still really dig the song "5150". Just wish I could find a copy without any vocals. It is my favorite example of Alex's drumming. So many fills & rolls & trills...or whatever the fuck you guys call them. That is my favorite song to air drum to ( and the Jamies Cryin' riff of course).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CSt66h30o0

[kwame k]

Same. It sounded more like classic Van Halen than 5150 did...by far. As far as 5150 goes, I still really dig the song "5150". Just wish I could find a copy without any vocals. It is my favorite example of Alex's drumming. So many fills & rolls & trills...or whatever the fuck you guys call them. That is my favorite song to air drum to ( and the Jamies Cryin' riff of course).

Which just kills me because if Al's drums weren't that lame electronic bullshit it would of made that album better..........

Al's drumming got better during the Hagar years and the tone he got on the Andy Johns produced album was killer.

[sonrisa salvaje]

I heard WCTBL on the radio and wasn't impressed but was still willing to give it a chance. Fortunately, me best friend (who always tried to buy the new releases before i did) bought the tape and played it for me. From the first listen i determined that it wasn't for me. When i saw the video for Yankee Rose and heard the song for the first time, i was floored. I bought the tape the day it came out but i wasn't blown away by the body of work immediately. Over the course of listening to it for the next year and catching Dave 3 times on tour i grew to love it. Looking back i don't think there is much of a comparison between the two. Dave went with straight ahead hard rock for the most part with a couple of tracks thrown in to follow up on the Crazy from the Heat momentum. Van Halen, to me, changed their sound completely and for the worse. At least the keyboards in 1984 were joint worthy. Van Hagar came across as sappy and more of a move toward trying to land in the top 40 in a "reach the masses" type way. There wasn't anything on EEAS that was overly radio friendly.

[sadaist]

Which just kills me because if Al's drums weren't that lame electronic bullshit it would of made that album better..........

Yeah, but he is still pounding the fuck out of them on 5150. Would be really cool to hear them sound with the more traditional deep rich warm THUD. I can imagine after you play the drums to that song you are one tired motherfucker.

I'm still surprised drummers don't have giant Hulk arms.

[kwame k]

The biggest workout is playing Keith Moon......that's a fucking workout!

But Playing Al is always fun.