Pro Fuck Ups

[Seshmeister]

[sadaist]

1st off...I fucking hate Lars. Always have, always will. Especially seeing a clip of him in the studio sipping hot tea. he was complaining about having to come back to work after a year off. He said "argh...I want my vacation back!" And while sipping hot tea? You fucking pussy! QUIT! Go back to playing tennis or baking cookies in your hollow tree home. Let a hungry drummer take your spot that doesn't view playing drums for Metallica work and a chore. It's called "playing" the drums for a reason. It is supposed to be fun. If you are only doing it for the money, you are a god dammed sellout.


Anyways, in defense of Kirk here, James writes some really really weird twitchy riffs. Just the timing of how you play them are really fucking hard to nail down. Best example is Disposable Heroes. Man, I've been trying that whole opening piece for 25 years now & still can't get it right. So off timing & twitchy. So yeah, Kirk is going to have a little trouble getting it down at first. Doesn't mean he sucks.

[sadaist]

I fucking hate Lars.


I agree self.

[Seshmeister]

Metallica's record sales are inversely proportional to their talent.

[lesfunk]

Metallica sucks mainly because their music is devoid of anything musical

[sadaist]

Metallica's record sales are inversely proportional to their talent.


Well...they launched with those 1st three albums because of the awesome catchy riffs. Written by Dave Mustaine. You can hear those old songs & just tell what is a Mustaine penned riff.

Also, James is extremely likable. Cool voice, has the right look & attitude, and writes some decent shit with very very very cool lyrics. Maybe some of the best lyrics for metal ever.

But they are a much greater band than the sum of all their parts.

I still fucking hate Lars more than anything. I didn't care for Newsted either. That said, I totally dig Trujillo 110%. Love that guy. Kirk is hard to hate. He is like your little brother that tries really hard & is too nice for you to tell him to go fuck himself.

[ashstralia]

lars sucks hard. i'll bet he was a sucky tennis player too.

[Seshmeister]

I was on the dance floor in a club a couple of months ago and they played 3 big songs in a row something like Panama, Paradise City and the Stones.

DJ then followed it up with Sad But True.

After about a verse I suddenly had a moment of clarity, this is fucking childish rubbish. You wouldn't take it to your band members in the garage at 17, how do they get away with it?

Any hoo I know that's obviously not everyones opinion judging by the 80 million album sales or whatever it is.

[Seshmeister]

Kirk is hard to hate. He is like your little brother that tries really hard & is too nice for you to tell him to go fuck himself.

Sounds like my cat and sounds like my cat.

[ELVIS]

You call the SM cat as well ??

[ELVIS]

I've always known lars was a way overrated drummer...

I guarantee I'm quite a bit better than he is...

[ELVIS]

"I'm used to having the drummer do the...beat part."


:biggrin:

[ELVIS]

They should have made "METALLITAP The Movie."


:ELVIS:

[chefcraig]

Metallica's record sales are inversely proportional to their talent.

So were Pat Boone's. This has been a staple of the music industry since recording was invented. Hell, even a snot-nosed punk like Pete Townshend knew it in 1965 or so, when he said "If you steer away from quality, you're alright."

Interviewer: But wouldn't you say a group like The Beatles have a certain musical quality?
Pete Townshend: Oooh, that's a tough question. Alright, actually, this afternoon, John and I were listening to a stereo LP of The Beatles, in which the voices come out of the one side and the backing track came out of the other. And when you actually hear the backing tracks of The Beatles without their voices, they're flippin' lousy.

[Seshmeister]

I can understand and forgive people not being that great at their instruments when they get signed, songs are the main thing and image is obviously really important.

What I don't get is these guys that are still pretty shit after being a professional musician(or drummer) for 30 years which is kind of what I was trying to make this thread about rather than drifting into a rant about Metallica.

I read an interview once where Hank Marvin said he didn't improve his guitar playing between about 1964 and 1989. I salute his honesty but WTF?

[chefcraig]

What I don't get is these guys that are still pretty shit after being a professional musician(or drummer) for 30 years which is kind of what I was trying to make this thread about rather than drifting into a rant about Metallica.

One possibility is drugs. I mean, did you ever notice that over their entire career, the Grateful Dead never quite managed to get any better?

[Nitro Express]

Well...they launched with those 1st three albums because of the awesome catchy riffs. Written by Dave Mustaine. You can hear those old songs & just tell what is a Mustaine penned riff.

Also, James is extremely likable. Cool voice, has the right look & attitude, and writes some decent shit with very very very cool lyrics. Maybe some of the best lyrics for metal ever.

But they are a much greater band than the sum of all their parts.

I still fucking hate Lars more than anything. I didn't care for Newsted either. That said, I totally dig Trujillo 110%. Love that guy. Kirk is hard to hate. He is like your little brother that tries really hard & is too nice for you to tell him to go fuck himself.

What made Metallica was their anti LA glam rock rebellion. That LA scene had become a bad parody of Van Halen and when something gets overdone and boring, people drift to something else. Metallica was really the first grunge band and in the early days, they had the "FUCK YOU!" attitude in droves. It was real and people can smell real rebellion and love it. You really don't need to be the best musicians in the world if you have the attitude and you can be great musicians with no attitude and your art will suck because of it.

[Nitro Express]

Once your life gets better and you are no longer pissed at the world, then you are going to lose what made your band work in the first place. What killed Metallica is they are lousy actors. Life got better for them and they brought it into the public eye. They made a huge mistake taping themselves and showing us what they really have become. As far as Lars goes, he's lazy. He ran off to play with the Teletubbies in the green grass and flowers and never touched the drums.

[ThrillsNSpills]

One possibility is drugs. I mean, did you ever notice that over their entire career, the Grateful Dead never quite managed to get any better?

another possibility is different motives. While we're wanting to assume these guys are in it for passion of the music as the first motivation, some are content to coast or phone it in or possibly just doing it for the fame.
They don't get the rush or satisfaction of improving, so it's not their focus.

[Nitro Express]

One possibility is drugs. I mean, did you ever notice that over their entire career, the Grateful Dead never quite managed to get any better?

LOL! The Grateful Dead was an acid soaked jazz band. There were no goals other than enjoying the journey to who knows where. They actually got worse as time went on but nobody seemed to care.

[ThrillsNSpills]

Like many of you I had absolutely no use for Metallica but they did a great job on the Freddie Mercury tribute.

I haven't heard enough of it to judge although their early bass player Cliff definately had talent.

[Nitro Express]

You can tell if your band is good by looking at the audience. When you start to see the smiles and people start to dance, bingo! you have them. If they just sit there, you are sucking and if they get angry, you are really sucking.

I think bands start to suck when they become studio rats. The musicians who get it, always play as much as they can in front of a live audience. You need that feedback and the audience is part of the art project.

[sadaist]

I can understand and forgive people not being that great at their instruments when they get signed, songs are the main thing and image is obviously really important.

What I don't get is these guys that are still pretty shit after being a professional musician(or drummer) for 30 years which is kind of what I was trying to make this thread about rather than drifting into a rant about Metallica.

I read an interview once where Hank Marvin said he didn't improve his guitar playing between about 1964 and 1989. I salute his honesty but WTF?


I got ya. Well what about Scott Ian from Anthrax? I swear that the Anthrax songs are so easy to play for any beginning guitarist. Just a few very simple bar chords. What I liked is that it was easy to get my fingers in the right spot and I didn't have to fumblefuck around the guitar neck looking for the correct frets. It was just a few easy chords.

But Scott Ian said it isn't about being musically correct. 4-2-4 or something. He said if a sound seems cool he will do it and repeat it over as many times as seems to be the coolest in the song. There are songs where the chord goes CRUNCH CRUNCH CRUNCH 7 times, 11 times, etc. He didn't ever stick to the "It has to be played 2 times, then a change-up to 4 times, then back to 2".

95% of the fans don't care how complex or technically correct the music is. If it sounds cool & you can bang your head or tap your foot to it = album sale.


And once you get the band popular, what is the motivation to practice & improve your skill? No way dude. In fact you probably do that less since now you have money & lifestyle to sit back & enjoy. I'll practice my playing on the 60 dates we are playing live this year. Why attempt to get better if your current level of skill is selling a million albums?

[Nitro Express]

I was in a bass class taught by Jack Casady and he told us you can't excel in music without doing it with others and playing in front of people. He said you can practice all you want alone in a room but you will never master music doing that.

[jhale667]

I can understand and forgive people not being that great at their instruments when they get signed, songs are the main thing and image is obviously really important.

What I don't get is these guys that are still pretty shit after being a professional musician(or drummer) for 30 years which is kind of what I was trying to make this thread about rather than drifting into a rant about Metallica.

I read an interview once where Hank Marvin said he didn't improve his guitar playing between about 1964 and 1989. I salute his honesty but WTF?

I totally get what you're saying... if the old adage about "1 live gig equals 1 month's worth of rehearsal" is true, some of these guys - who should by now be beyond masters of their craft AND instruments 30 years later - aren't.

[Nitro Express]

You can keep the fire or you can morph into the Spinal Tap Jazz Odyssey self wankery stage. Metallica should call themselves Spinal Tap now because the do have a black album. :biggrin:

[sadaist]

another possibility is different motives. While we're wanting to assume these guys are in it for passion of the music as the first motivation, some are content to coast or phone it in or possibly just doing it for the fame.
They don't get the rush or satisfaction of improving, so it's not their focus.


I picked up the guitar with dreams of being a rock star (EVH in particular). My dreams were of being on stage, being rich, famous, admired, and bagging any pussy I wanted. I love music and guitar specifically. But I wouldn't say I have a deep love for the actual instrument and what it can attain. When I think of those types I come up with Satriani, Johnson, Vai, McAlpine, Lukather, etc. There are only a handful of those guys that if they walked into a room that had a naked super model and a new guitar in it, their eyes would go straight to the guitar & not even notice the naked woman.

I didn't want to be a wizard on the guitar. Just play well enough to make it sound pretty cool & get pussy.

[jhale667]

I didn't want to be a wizard on the guitar. Just play well enough to make it sound pretty cool & get pussy.

Conversely, I wanted to be a guitar wizard that got pussy... :baaa:

[Nitro Express]

Conversely, I wanted to be a guitar wizard that got pussy... :baaa:

I still think the lead singers get more pussy but then you can be the lead singing guitar wizard. Not only did Hendrix get laid a lot, they honored his cock by making a plaster cast replica of it.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Some Kind of Monster is really what turned me off for both James and Lars....

Talk about a pair of absolutely spoiled, sellout assholes.... It's like they completely forgot where they came from....

On top of that, listen to any Metallica boot, and listen to how basically condescending James talks to the crowd.... It's like he talks down to the crowd....

On the contrary, I've always thought Kirk and Jason (and now Robert I would say) would be really cool guys to just sit down and have a beer with... Just like in VH I think MA would be that way....

Just my .02....

[Nitro Express]

Society has degraded to the point where this aspect of rock and roll does not have the impact it once did, but I think the big appeal of rock and roll is you could break all of societys rules, get away with it, and get rich in the process.

[Nitro Express]

I picked up the guitar with dreams of being a rock star (EVH in particular). My dreams were of being on stage, being rich, famous, admired, and bagging any pussy I wanted. I love music and guitar specifically. But I wouldn't say I have a deep love for the actual instrument and what it can attain. When I think of those types I come up with Satriani, Johnson, Vai, McAlpine, Lukather, etc. There are only a handful of those guys that if they walked into a room that had a naked super model and a new guitar in it, their eyes would go straight to the guitar & not even notice the naked woman.

I didn't want to be a wizard on the guitar. Just play well enough to make it sound pretty cool & get pussy.

This post is too honest. :biggrin:

[Nitro Express]

All I know is if heaven is where all your dreams come true, heaven is going to be one heck of an orgy of excess.

[jhale667]

Some Kind of Monster is really what turned me off for both James and Lars....

Talk about a pair of absolutely spoiled, sellout assholes.... It's like they completely forgot where they came from....

On top of that, listen to any Metallica boot, and listen to how basically condescending James talks to the crowd.... It's like he talks down to the crowd....

On the contrary, I've always thought Kirk and Jason (and now Robert I would say) would be really cool guys to just sit down and have a beer with... Just like in VH I think MA would be that way....

Just my .02....

I met Trujillo during the Infectious Grooves days, and he was cool as shit....totally the kind of guy you'd want to hang out with, probably had a great deal to do with (besides being a monster player) why he got the gig.

[Diamondjimi]

R.T. is a badass. Perfect dude for the band...

[Diamondjimi]

Lars has got to be the biggest run-of -the-mouth to ever do an interview. I'd rather watch paint dry than read/watch his babbling shite....

[Seshmeister]

I picked up the guitar with dreams of being a rock star (EVH in particular). My dreams were of being on stage, being rich, famous, admired, and bagging any pussy I wanted. I love music and guitar specifically. But I wouldn't say I have a deep love for the actual instrument and what it can attain. When I think of those types I come up with Satriani, Johnson, Vai, McAlpine, Lukather, etc. There are only a handful of those guys that if they walked into a room that had a naked super model and a new guitar in it, their eyes would go straight to the guitar & not even notice the naked woman.

I didn't want to be a wizard on the guitar. Just play well enough to make it sound pretty cool & get pussy.

I'm afraid to admit I was the same. :)

So when my band split up and I wasn't single then I basically didn't play for 10 years.

In the last few years I've come back to it expecting all these bands to have technical abilities like Rush. I don't mean playing that kind of music because that would be self defeating but in things like the Monster film or watching clips of Ozzy's latest band you think these people have actually gone backwards.

[Nitro Express]

Lars has got to be the biggest run-of -the-mouth to ever do an interview. I'd rather watch paint dry than read/watch his babbling shite....

His money will run out some time and then he will resurface with his big mouth trying to make more money when nobody cares any more. What else can Lars do but drum for Metallica? He can't even do that now. The thrill is gone Lars.

[Seshmeister]

Unless they impose a prick tax then I don't see him spending his $175 million any time soon.

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/rock-stars/lars-ulrich-net-worth/

[Nitro Express]

Yeah but how is that $175 million invested? I hope he invested with Madoff. :biggrin:

[sadaist]

Been thinking about this thread all day. Isn't there a point where no matter how much you play, practice, or are taught where you stop improving? You have reached your personal maximum skill level? I mean, not everyone will be a virtuoso, no matter how much they try. Not everyone will be Joe Montana no matter how many footballs they throw. Not everyone can be Michael Jordan no matter how much time on the court they have.

I waterski and have been for 21+ years. For many years we were at it 4 days a week. I reached a point where I wasn't getting any better. I still had loads of fun and was quite good....but I could not improve no matter how hard I kept trying. I bought newer skis, ropes, gloves, even skied behind different boats. I wasn't going to be able to turn any sharper, get closer to the water horizontally or improve my slalom times.

Just thinking some of these guys have reached their max level of proficiency.

[ThrillsNSpills]

Been thinking about this thread all day. Isn't there a point where no matter how much you play, practice, or are taught where you stop improving? You have reached your personal maximum skill level? I mean, not everyone will be a virtuoso, no matter how much they try. Not everyone will be Joe Montana no matter how many footballs they throw. Not everyone can be Michael Jordan no matter how much time on the court they have.

I waterski and have been for 21+ years. For many years we were at it 4 days a week. I reached a point where I wasn't getting any better. I still had loads of fun and was quite good....but I could not improve no matter how hard I kept trying. I bought newer skis, ropes, gloves, even skied behind different boats. I wasn't going to be able to turn any sharper, get closer to the water horizontally or improve my slalom times.

Just thinking some of these guys have reached their max level of proficiency.

There's so many areas to grow if that's your choice. There's rhythm playing, soloing, writing, etc. and there's tons of ways to improve playing if it's a stringed instrument especially. You can use a pick, use a pick and fingers, tap with 1 hand or two. The biggest challenge is losing your passion for it if you already have momentum developed. If you just pick it up and think you're helping your chops by playing the same patterns then you're growth is shot unless you decide to try new notes and directions. Not that playing patterns isn't good for your picking but you're more in a position of maintenance.

[jhale667]

There's so many areas to grow if that's your choice. There's rhythm playing, soloing, writing, etc. and there's tons of ways to improve playing if it's a stringed instrument especially. You can use a pick, use a pick and fingers, tap with 1 hand or two. The biggest challenge is losing your passion for it if you already have momentum developed. If you just pick it up and think you're helping your chops by playing the same patterns then you're growth is shot unless you decide to try new notes and directions. Not that playing patterns isn't good for your picking but you're more in a position of maintenance.

:baaa:

Excellent post. I'd totally agree, there's no reason to stop striving to be better. Look at someone like Jeff Beck...in his 60s and tell me THAT guy isn't still improving!! Once you get past a certain technical point, sure - you're not going to become more of a gymnast so to speak, but you should always be trying to improve your phrasing, sense of melody, etc. It's all about maintaining your passion and desire at that point, as Thrills so eloquently put it.


:guitar:

[Nitro Express]

:baaa:

Excellent post. I'd totally agree, there's no reason to stop striving to be better. Look at someone like Jeff Beck...in his 60s and tell me THAT guy isn't still improving!! Once you get past a certain technical point, sure - you're not going to become more of a gymnast so to speak, but you should always be trying to improve your phrasing, sense of melody, etc. It's all about maintaining your passion and desire at that point, as Thrills so eloquently put it.


:guitar:

The people who do get better have a passion for it. That's the difference in anything. You find something you like to do, you do it well, and if enough people like it, you can make a living at it. Some people are motivated by the living part of it and do enough to get by and then there are the ones who love what they do and would do it if they even didn't get paid to do it. Those are the people who are going to stand out and unless mental problems, physical disabilities, or drug addiction gets in the way, they typically do get better. Most people don't know what they want and are mostly money motivated so they don't have that natural drive for what they do. They do the bare minimum to get a paycheck and typically hate what they do.

[Nitro Express]

There's so many areas to grow if that's your choice. There's rhythm playing, soloing, writing, etc. and there's tons of ways to improve playing if it's a stringed instrument especially. You can use a pick, use a pick and fingers, tap with 1 hand or two. The biggest challenge is losing your passion for it if you already have momentum developed. If you just pick it up and think you're helping your chops by playing the same patterns then you're growth is shot unless you decide to try new notes and directions. Not that playing patterns isn't good for your picking but you're more in a position of maintenance.

I think a big challenge and you see this with Metallica is once they make a lot of money, they have other interests because the money opened those options up. Going on tour and making music might have been great when they had nothing and were hungry and had less options but now money has opened up a whole new world. The next thing you know you are wearing Armani with the trophy wife going to fashion shows and playing polo.

[Diamondjimi]

I think a big challenge and you see this with Metallica is once they make a lot of money, they have other interests because the money opened those options up. Going on tour and making music might have been great when they had nothing and were hungry and had less options but now money has opened up a whole new world. The next thing you know you are wearing Armani with the trophy wife going to fashion shows and playing polo.

Money turned them into "Rock Stars". The type of musicians they loathed and despised all those years ago. They became a stereotype.
I was fortunate enough to witness them in their "hungry/ftw" era (Ride the Lightning/Master). The fucking slayed. Haven't given them a dime of my money since '89.
Take a band like Slayer or Pantera, both have done well financially, but neither turned into "rock star" pussies or sold out for the big bux by writing "accessible music .
It's called integrity. And Metallica claims to have plenty, yet in reality they have ZERO.

[sadaist]

It's all about maintaining your passion and desire at that point, as Thrills so eloquently put it.


:guitar:


Yeah. But I imagine passion & desire to improve kinda fly out the window when your current level of skill has reaped $175 million. What is Lars' motivation to improve? To most people just self improvement is enough of a motivator. Be the best you that you can be. I don't really see Lars as this type of person.

[sadaist]

Money turned them into "Rock Stars". The type of musicians they loathed and despised all those years ago. They became a stereotype.
I was fortunate enough to witness them in their "hungry/ftw" era (Ride the Lightning/Master). The fucking slayed. Haven't given them a dime of my money since '89.
Take a band like Slayer or Pantera, both have done well financially, but neither turned into "rock star" pussies or sold out for the big bux by writing "accessible music .
It's called integrity. And Metallica claims to have plenty, yet in reality they have ZERO.

"Following our instinct - not a trend...

go against the grain until the end!"


Empty meaningless words now. But those fuckers lived it for a while. That was the attraction.

[Hardrock69]

I totally get what you're saying... if the old adage about "1 live gig equals 1 month's worth of rehearsal" is true, some of these guys - who should by now be beyond masters of their craft AND instruments 30 years later - aren't.

I had a friend who had a band for 2-3 years. They rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed. I think they only played 2 gigs the entire time. I used to get on him about it, and say "Learn 6 songs and get out there and play gigs! You aren't going to get any better playing for the roaches in the rehearsal facility!".

Then the band broke up.

Oh well, whatever.

[ashstralia]

these great guitarists all have a beautifully singing but individually recognisable sssooouuunndd.


:stoned-smiley: