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Kristy
05-01-2011, 03:04 PM
VATICAN CITY — Some 1.5 million pilgrims flooded Rome today to watch Pope John Paul II move a step closer to sainthood in one of the largest Vatican Masses in history, an outpouring of adoration for a beloved and historic figure after years marred by church scandal.


The turnout for the beatification far exceeded even the most optimistic expectation of 1 million people, the number Rome city officials predicted. For Catholics filling St. Peter’s Square and streets and watching around the world, the beatification was a welcome hearkening back to the days when the pope was almost universally beloved.

“He was like a king to us, like a father,” Marynka Ulaszewska, a 28-year-old from Ciechocinek, Poland, said, weeping. “I hope these emotions will remain with us for a long time,” she said.


http://news.uk4net.com/wp-content/plugins/RSSPoster_PRO/cache/a1a71__52439045_52439044.jpg

Pope Benedict XVI, who has set off controversies with remarks on Islam, contraception, and other issues, praised John Paul for turning back the seemingly “irreversible” tide of communism with faith, courage and “the strength of a titan, a strength which came to him from God.”John Paul is universally credited with helping bring down communism in his native Poland with support for the Solidarity labor movement, accelerating the fall of the Iron Curtain. “He rightly reclaimed for Christianity that impulse of hope which had in some sense faltered before Marxism and the ideology of progress,” Benedict said. “He restored to Christianity its true face as a religion of hope.”


John Paul’s beatification, the fastest in modern times, has triggered a new wave of anger from sex-abuse victims because much of the criminality occurred during his 27-year watch. Critics also say John Paul left behind empty churches in Europe, too few priests in North and South America, priests who violate their celibacy requirement in places like Africa and a general dwindling of the faith in former Christian strongholds.


John Paul’s defenders argue that an entire generation of new priests owe their vocations to John Paul, and that millions of lay Catholics found their faith during the World Youth Days, which were a hallmark of his papacy. Vatican officials have insisted that the saint-making process isn’t a judgment of how John Paul administered the church but rather whether he lived a life of Christian virtue."


1.5 million? Really? I can remember making my First Communion, in June when he visited Colorado. It was an unforgettable experience, even though I was just a little kid and didn't see much. When he died back in 2005 in a way I felt that I had lost a grandfather.

To say he brought about the downfall of Communism is a stretch. As growing up Catholic, I'd hear the stories about how he had to hide from the Nazi's to attend seminary which made him bring more philosophical and sociological issues into the Church that is now being regarded as the common view. He treated women as being more than second class citizens (both inside and outside the Church) insisting that that they have equal rights to men, and be allowed to bear children and still work in this fucked up global economy. Of course he did not directly go after all the known pedophiles within the Church instead opting that the Bishops be held responsible for what was done on their watch. Pope John Paul II was complex man but hardly deserving of Sainthood in my opinion.

binnie
05-01-2011, 03:10 PM
At the pace the Church normally moves with regards to beatification this is very, very speedy.

JP II was a beloved Pope for many Catholics - focussing attention on such a recent Pope is undoubtedly a way of rejuvenating confidence in believers across the world in these, errrrm, 'bumpy', years for the Church.

Kristy
05-01-2011, 03:13 PM
JP II was a beloved Pope for many Catholics - focussing attention on such a recent Pope is undoubtedly a way of rejuvenating confidence in believers across the world in these, errrrm, 'bumpy', years for the Church.

May he finally rest in peace. This is a sad day not only for Catholics, or Christians in general, but for all the people of good will.

binnie
05-01-2011, 03:15 PM
May he finally rest in peace. This is a sad day not only for Catholics, or Christians in general, but for all the people of good will.

I'm a little confused: why is his being made a saint a sad day? Surely the Mass here serves its most poignant function: as an act of heartfelt rememberance?

Kristy
05-01-2011, 03:23 PM
I think it's due that the Church needs a man like him more than ever. NO Bono jokes, please. Pope John Paul II spoke out very strongly on subject of debt and world poverty than the usual issues of celibacy and gender issues of the priesthood. He had a unique balance on one hand as being conservative and unbending on matters of theology and (personal) morality yet politically he was rather liberal.

binnie
05-01-2011, 03:26 PM
Well said.

He was actually a Pope who was admired by non-Catholics. That is very, very rare.

FORD
05-01-2011, 03:27 PM
Most obvious reason why JP was better than Pope Palpatine: He knew a fucking idiot when he saw one.....

http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/p/D/bush_pope.jpg

FORD
05-01-2011, 03:29 PM
http://donstuff.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/bush-and-the-beatles-and-the-pope.jpg?w=500&h=333

Nitro Express
05-02-2011, 04:40 AM
Then you get to be one of the saint statues on the roofline. Last time I was at Vatican City we got to climb to the top of St. Peter's dome. I was amazed at how open the Vatican is in some ways but then they don't have a bunch of lawyers running their country. If you fall to your death or tumble down the steep stairs I guess God didn't like you.:biggrin:

Nitro Express
05-02-2011, 04:55 AM
One of my dad's employees was polish and everyone gave him shit for being a pollock. Back in the days when we made fun of them. Well one day the guy was catching shit from another employee and the polish guy goes well have you know we now have a polish pope. The other guy replied yeah and the first thing he will do is repaint the sistine chapel. :biggrin:

Seshmeister
05-02-2011, 07:17 AM
At the pace the Church normally moves with regards to beatification this is very, very speedy.

JP II was a beloved Pope for many Catholics - focussing attention on such a recent Pope is undoubtedly a way of rejuvenating confidence in believers across the world in these, errrrm, 'bumpy', years for the Church.

At least the institutionalised rape of children has taken the pressure off about his past as a Nazi.

Seshmeister
05-02-2011, 07:18 AM
One of my dad's employees was polish and everyone gave him shit for being a pollock.

They called him a fish?

Seshmeister
05-02-2011, 07:23 AM
He treated women as being more than second class citizens (both inside and outside the Church) insisting that that they have equal rights to men, and be allowed to bear children and still work in this fucked up global economy.

More than second class but less than first?

In any case no single thing subjugates women worldwide more than views on birth control of a bunch of weird old child rapists.

Anonymous
05-02-2011, 08:11 AM
It never fails to amaze me how people believe what they hear & not what they see.

So this cunt talks about poverty & hunger while living in obscene luxury, raping children & he's made a saint? And peopkle actually believe it's the right thing to do & he was a good person?

No wonder this world is so fucked up. People have the right to think, but they never use it.

Cheers! :bottle:

binnie
05-02-2011, 03:28 PM
More than second class but less than first?

In any case no single thing subjugates women worldwide more than views on birth control of a bunch of weird old child rapists.

No single thing? That's an overstatement Sesh. I don't think you can pin gender inequality all over the globe as predominantly the fault of the Catholic Church.

Seshmeister
05-02-2011, 03:42 PM
The catholic church even opposed women getting the vote.

As for John Paul look at what he did in El Salvador.

Personally I don't care if they call him a saint or the chief flying potato sorcerer.

I actually like the whole canonization process because it shines a light on the utter superstitious insanity of the religion where you get grown men saying that a piece of 'magic' or miracle has been performed. :biggrin:

Plus I'm thinking that Penn and Teller must be in with a chance of being made saints when they die too and I quite like them...