Catholics question BONER's un-Christ-like treatment of the poor

[FORD]

Catholic faculty question Boehner’s record on poor before commencement address
By Michelle Boorstein, Wednesday, May 11, 10:13 AM

Three days before House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) is scheduled to deliver the commencement address at Catholic University, dozens of faculty at Catholic colleges — including many from the university — have written the Catholic speaker, criticizing him for having a record “among the worst in Congress” on protecting the poor.

The letter, released Wednesday, was organized by faculty at Catholic University, the national university of the Catholic Church in Northeast Washington.

The letter does not protest Boehner’s visit or ask the school to rescind its invitation but urges him to “reawaken your familiarity” with Church teaching on the subject of poverty. It focuses on the 2012 budget Boehner is shepherding, criticizing it for cuts that would hurt the poor and are “particularly cruel to pregnant women and children.”

The liberal Catholic writer Michael Sean Winters blogged Wednesday morning that the proposed budget would increase abortions because it cuts funding to programs that serve at-risk pregnant women, who ostensibly would then be more likely to seek abortions.

Of the nearly 80 signers, about 30 are from Catholic University, including faculty from the schools of law, nursing, history and theology, among others.

Neither Catholic University nor the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, the Church’s official arm in the United States, responded immediately to requests for comment Wednesday.

There has been little public comment from American Catholic bishops, the official voices of the Church, during budget talks. The two men who co-chair the bishops’ committees on domestic and international justice, which typically include subjects related to funding for the poor, have sent several public letters to Congress since the budget talks ramped up, urging lawmakers to prioritize the needs of the poor. The letters have also urged lawmakers not to fund abortions in the budget.

And the bishops’ lobbyists on the Hill have been active in fighting to protect programs for the poor and pregnant women.

But the vast majority of bishops have been silent during debates, which may reflect that they, like the Catholic population, are sharply divided in their general political leanings.

A Washington Post-ABC poll last month showed that like most Americans, white Catholics — who make up 71 percent of U.S. Catholics and were the only group large enough to produce reliable results in a poll of that size — oppose cuts to Medicaid and Medicare as a way to reduce the nation’s debt and support raising taxes on those with incomes of more than$250,000.

[FORD]

Here's the letter.....



Dear Mr. Speaker,

We congratulate you on the occasion of your commencement address to The Catholic University of America. It is good for Catholic universities to host and engage the thoughts of powerful public figures, even Catholics such as yourself who fail to recognize (whether out of a lack of awareness or dissent) important aspects of Catholic teaching. We write in the hope that this visit will reawaken your familiarity with the teachings of your Church on matters of faith and morals as they relate to governance.

Mr. Speaker, your voting record is at variance from one of the Church’s most ancient moral teachings. From the apostles to the present, the Magisterium of the Church has insisted that those in power are morally obliged to preference the needs of the poor. Your record in support of legislation to address the desperate needs of the poor is among the worst in Congress. This fundamental concern should have great urgency for Catholic policy makers. Yet, even now, you work in opposition to it.

The 2012 budget you shepherded to passage in the House of Representatives guts long-established protections for the most vulnerable members of society. It is particularly cruel to pregnant women and children, gutting Maternal and Child Health grants and slashing $500 million from the highly successful Women Infants and Children nutrition program. When they graduate from WIC at age 5, these children will face a 20% cut in food stamps. The House budget radically cuts Medicaid and effectively ends Medicare. It invokes the deficit to justify visiting such hardship upon the vulnerable, while it carves out $3 trillion in new tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy. In a letter speaking on behalf of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, Bishop Stephen Blaire and Bishop Howard Hubbard detailed the anti-life implications of this budget in regard to its impact on poor and vulnerable American citizens. They explained the Church’s teachings in this regard clearly, insisting that:

A just framework for future budgets cannot rely on disproportionate cuts in essential services to poor persons. It requires shared sacrifice by all, including raising adequate revenues, eliminating unnecessary military and other spending, and addressing the long-term costs of health insurance and retirement programs fairly.

Specifically, addressing your budget, the letter expressed grave concern about changes to Medicaid and Medicare that could leave the elderly and poor without adequate health care. The bishops warned further:
We also fear the human and social costs of substantial cuts to programs that serve families working to escape poverty, especially food and nutrition, child development and education, and affordable housing.

Representing the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, Bishops Hubbard and Blaire have now endorsed with other American Christian leaders a call to legislators for a “Circle of Protection” around programs for the poor that you, Mr. Speaker, have imperiled. The statement of these Christian leaders recognizes the need for fiscal responsibility, “but not at the expense of hungry and poor people.” Indeed, it continues, “These choices are economic, political—and moral. As Christians, we believe the moral measure of the debate is how the most poor and vulnerable people fare. We look at every budget proposal from the bottom up—how it treats those Jesus called ‘the least of these’ (Matthew 25:45).”

Mr. Speaker, we urge you to use the occasion of this year’s commencement at The Catholic University of America to give fullest consideration to the teachings of your Church. We call upon you to join with your bishops and sign on to the “Circle of Protection.” It is your moral duty as a legislator to put the needs of the poor and most vulnerable foremost in your considerations. To assist you in this regard, we enclose a copy of the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church. Published by the Vatican, this is the “catechism” for the Church’s ancient and growing teaching on a just society and Catholic obligations in public life.

Catholic social doctrine is not merely a set of goals to be achieved by whatever means one chooses. It is also a way of proceeding, a set of principles that are derived from the truth of the human person. In Pope Benedict’s words: “Without truth, charity degenerates into sentimentality. Love becomes an empty shell, to be filled in an arbitrary way... the word “love” is abused and distorted, to the point where it comes to mean the opposite.”

We commend to you the Compendium’s discussion of the principles of the common good, the preferential option for the poor, and the interrelationship of subsidiarity and solidarity. Paragraph 355 on tax revenues, solidarity, and support for the vulnerable is particularly relevant to the moment.

Be assured of our prayers for you on this occasion and for your faithful living out of your vocation in public life.

Sincerely,

Stephen F. Schneck
Director, Institute for Policy Research & Catholic Studies
The Catholic University of America

Ken Pennington
Kelly-Quinn Professor of Ecclesiastical and Legal History
The Catholic University of America
School of Canon Law
The Columbus School of Law
The Catholic University of America

Karen M. Korol
Assistant Dean for Undergraduate Studies
School of Theology and Religious Studies
Catholic University of America

Rett R. Ludwikowski, Ph.D.
Comparative and International Law Institute
Columbus School of Law
The Catholic University of America

Patricia C. McMullen, Ph.D., JD, CRNP
Dean
School of Nursing
The Catholic University of America

Kenneth P. Miller, Ph.D, RN, CFNP, FAAN
Associate Dean for Administration
School of Nursing
The Catholic University of America

Timothy J. Meagher
Associate Professor
Department of History
The Catholic University of America

Sr. Ann Patrick Conrad, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
National Catholic School of Social Service
The Catholic University of America

Sr. Vincentia Joseph, Ph.D.
Professor Emerita
National Catholic School of Social Service
The Catholic University of America

Maryann Cusimano Love, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Politics
The Catholic University of America

Stephen McKenna, Ph.D.
Associate Professor & Chair
Department of Media Studies
The Catholic University of America

Linda Plitt Donaldson, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
National Catholic School of Social Service
The Catholic University of America

Margaret Martin Berry
Columbus School of Law
The Catholic University of America

Leslie W. Tentler, Ph.D.
Ordinary Professor
Department of History
The Catholic University of America

Rev. Anthony J. Pogorelc, Ph.D.
Fellow
Institute for Policy Research & Catholic Studies
The Catholic University of America

William V. D’Antonio, Ph.D.
Fellow
Institute for Policy Research & Catholic Studies
The Catholic University of America

William Barbieri, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
School of Theology and Religious Studies
The Catholic University of America

Enrique Pumar, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Sociology
The Catholic University of America

Joseph J. Shields
Associate Professor
The National Catholic School of Social Service
The Catholic University of America

Ellen M. Scully
Assistant Clinical Professor
Columbus Community Legal Services
Columbus School of Law
The Catholic University of America

Marie J. Raber, MSW, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Associate Dean and MSW Program Chair
National Catholic School of Social Service
The Catholic University of America

Michaela L. Zajicek-Farber, MSW, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
National Catholic School of Social Service
The Catholic University of America

William D. Dinges, Ph.D.
Ordinary Professor
School of Theology and Religious Studies
The Catholic University of America

William P. Loewe, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Historical and Systematic Theology
The Catholic University of America

Karlynn BrintzenhofeSzoc, Ph.D., MSW, OSW-C
Associate Professor
Director, Data Management & Outcomes Assessment
National Catholic School of Social Service
The Catholic University of America

James A. McCann, Ph.D.
Professor of Political Science
Purdue University
Visiting Fellow, Institute for Policy Research & Catholic Studies
The Catholic University of America

Chris Grech
Associate Professor
School of Architecture and Planning
The Catholic University of America

Ernest M. Zampelli, Ph.D.
Ordinary Professor
Department of Business and Economics
The Catholic University of America

David A Lipton
Director, Securities Law Program
School of Law
The Catholic University of America

Murry Sidlin
Professor, School of Music
The Catholic University of America

John Sniegocki
Associate Professor of Christian Ethics
Xavier University
Cincinnati, OH

Kristin Suna-Koro, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Theology
Xavier University
Cincinnati, OH

Jean Lim
Visiting Professor, Theology
Xavier University
Cincinnati, OH

Arthur T. Dewey
Professor of Theology
Xavier University
Cincinnati, OH

Edward P. Hahnenberg, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Theology
Xavier University
Cincinnati, OH

Vincent J. Miller
Gudorf Chair in Catholic Theology and Culture
Department of Religious Studies
University of Dayton

Una M. Cadegan
Associate Professor, Department of History
University of Dayton

Francis Xavier Doyle
Former Associate General Secretary
U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops

Arturo Chavez, Ph.D.
President and CEO
Mexican American Catholic College

Gary Macy
John Nobili, S.J. Professor of Theology
Santa Clara University

Gerald J. Beyer
Associate Professor of Christian Social Ethics
Department of Theology and Religious Studies
Saint Joseph's University

Dr. Eugene J. Halus, Jr.
Associate Professor of Politics
Department of History and Politics
Immaculata University

Kristin Heyer
Associate Professor
Religious Studies
Santa Clara University

Bryan N. Massingale
Associate Professor of Theological Ethics
Marquette University

Dolores L. Christie
CTSA/John Carroll University

Alex Mikulich, Ph.D.
Research Fellow
Jesuit Social Research Institute
Loyola University
New Orleans, LA

Daniel K. Finn
Professor of Theology and Clemens Professor of Economics
St. John’s University
Collegeville, MN

Terrence W. Tilley
Avery Cardinal Dulles, S.J., Professor of Catholic Theology
Chair, Theology Department
President, Society for Philosophy of Religion
Fordham University, Bronx, NY

Thomas J. Reese, S.J.
Senior Fellow
Woodstock Theological Center
Georgetown University

Bruce T. Morrill, S.J.
Professor, Theology Department
Boston College

Nancy Dallavalle
Associate Professor and Chair, Department of Religious Studies
Fairfield University

Lisa Sowle Cahill
Monan Professor of Theology
Boston College

Bradford Hinze
Professor of Theology
Fordham University

Mary Ann Hinsdale
Associate Professor of Theology
Boston College

Paul Lakeland
Aloysius P. Kelley, S.J. Professor of Catholic Studies
Director, Center for Catholic Studies

Jeannine Hill Fletcher
Associate Professor of Theology
Faculty Director, Dorothy Day Center for Service and Justice
Fordham University

Paulette Skiba
Professor of Religious Studies
Clarke University

Dennis M. Doyle
Professor
Department of Religious Studies
University of Dayton

Maura Donahue, Ph.D.
Director, Program for Christian Leadership
University of Dayton

Richard R. Gaillardetz
Murray/Bacik Professor of Catholic Studies
University of Toledo

Christopher Pramuk
Assistant Professor of Theology
Xavier University

Marie Dennis
Director
Maryknoll Office for Global Concern

Mary Ann Brenden MSW, LICSW
Associate Professor of Social Work
St. Catherine University/University of St. Thomas School of Social Work

Mark Ensalaco, Ph.D.
Director, Human Rights Studies program
University of Dayton

Dr. Marie J. Giblin
Associate Professor
Theology Department
Xavier University

Frank Farrell, Ph.D.
Chair- Liberal Arts Division
Senior Associate Professor, Religion
Manor College

Rev. Joseph Nangle, OFM
Our Lady Queen of Peace
Arlington, VA

Todd Whitmore
Associate Professor of Christian Ethics
Department of Theology
University of Notre Dame

Christine Firer Hinze, Ph.D., B.A, M.A, CUA
Professor of Theology
Director, Francis & Ann Curran Center for American Catholic Studies
Fordham University

Ed Kelly
Adjunct Professor
University Writing Program
University of Notre Dame

Maria McKenna, Ph.D.
Director of Undergraduate Studies
Department of Africana Studies
University of Notre Dame

Sr. Mary Hughes, OP
President
Leadership Conference of Women Religious

Ron Pagnucco
Chairman
Department of Peace Studies
College of St. Benedict/St. John's University

Michael A. Zampelli, SJ
Paul Locatelli, SJ Professor
Department of Theater and Dance
Rector, Santa Clara Jesuit Community
Santa Clara University

John A. Coleman, SJ
Casassa Professor of Social Values, Emeritus
Loyola Marymount University

Jim Hug, S.J.
President
Center of Concern

Lew Daly
Director, Fellows Program
Demos
Author of God’s Economy: Faith-Based Initiatives and the Caring State

John A. Barba
will receive Ph.D. in Historical and Systematic Theology at Catholic University graduation on Saturday

[Nitro Express]

I hate how are corrupt social welfare system keeps people dependent on the government but I also hate how the Republicans refuse to cut any spending out of the military budget. We need to cut $4 Trillion but you can do that without taking government assistance away from people who really need it. Plus, it's stupid politically. The Deomocrats will hoop it up and scare everybody that the Republicans are going to toss grandma out in the street.

Bohner is just a bonehead.

What needs to happen is a transition from welfare to jobs. Both parties have failed at this. You make jobs available and then you systematically phase the welfare out but then politicians love to keep people dependent so that isn't going to happen.

[hideyoursheep]

Boner won't listen to anybody....except maybe his old HS football coach, Gerry Faust.

[knuckleboner]

many Christians conveniently forget Christ's stance on the poor.

oh, they believe in it. they just don't think government should do it. (i.e., let somebody ELSE pay for it. i want to keep all of my money...)

[Seshmeister]

Does the Catholic Church have any credibility on this issue at all???

Next they'll be writing letters to Gary Glitter...

[Satan]

There are many charities owned by the Catholic church who do a great deal to help the poor. So they deserve some credit for that, despite the kiddie diddlers and the Opus Dei douchebags like Bill Donohue telling them to vote Repuke because of gay marriage and abortion.

[Hardrock69]

Boner won't listen to anybody....except maybe his old HS football coach, Gerry Faust.

You are wrong. He will listen to his corporate overlords intently when they threaten not to fund him.

[Nitro Express]

There are many charities owned by the Catholic church who do a great deal to help the poor. So they deserve some credit for that, despite the kiddie diddlers and the Opus Dei douchebags like Bill Donohue telling them to vote Repuke because of gay marriage and abortion.

The Catholic church is really several church's under one name. It's kind of like the US Government where it's gotten so big and complicated one part is basically mutually exclusive from the other. I mean you really do have some people in the Catholic church that put the rest of us to shame when it comes to real no BS compassionate service. I'm not Catholic but I have donated money to the Catholic Relief Fund because I have seen personally the good that organization does. Jesse Ventura is an atheist but he said when he was governor of Minnesota he was amazed at how much community help the church's gave. He said even though he is not a believer if the church's disappeared the government couldn't pick up the slack and many people would go without help and fellowship. So that it the good aspect of organized religion.

The bad side is the con artists and scumbags that use it to exploit others. The catholic church amongst many others are masters at controlling people through fear and guilt. It's really limiting and puts people in a mental cage. I hate that aspect of religion. The schools, charity, and fun activities were the good part of it.

[BigBadBrian]

many Christians conveniently forget Christ's stance on the poor.



So tell us! Do it without a Bible or using any other reference. You won't, because you can't. Neither can the rest of you.

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

-Matthew 7:3-5

[kwame k]

So tell us! Do it without a Bible or using any other reference. You won't, because you can't. Neither can the rest of you.

Yeah, tell us! Who would want to use the Bible to quote Jesus, Forrest........:umm:

[Nitro Express]

A successful church will eventually have a bigger business side to it than the church itself. Most people see the Catholic church as priests and nuns but they don't see the huge banking, real estate, and business side of it. Most people don't know some of their favorite sports teams are actually owned by the jesuits.

Most people see the Mormons as a bunch of strange people in Utah but have no idea they are the biggest land holder in the US or the extent of their commercial holdings in the US and around the world or the amount of political power they really wield.

Some church's become wealthy but then can't hold it. The PTL Club is a good example. The ones that are around for a while seem to survive a long time. They seem to have the system down.

That being said, some sub organizations in these church's do a lot of good charity work.

[Guitar Shark]

So tell us! Do it without a Bible or using any other reference. You won't, because you can't. Neither can the rest of you.

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

-Matthew 7:3-5

LMAO. Thanks for proving kb's point! The text you are citing says not to judge others, it has nothing to do with the poor. The correct text is the one about the camel and the eye of the needle. And you're right, I can't quote it exactly without referring to the Bible, but that's the passage you should be using.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

:hee:

[jhale667]

There are many charities owned by the Catholic church who do a great deal to help the poor. So they deserve some credit for that, despite the kiddie diddlers and the Opus Dei douchebags like Bill Donohue telling them to vote Repuke because of gay marriage and abortion.

True, and it's about time someone within the Catholic Church's organization (even if it is only a blogger) pointed out that for a party that's supposedly so ANTI-abortion, they sure do seem hellbent on creating circumstances for women that would INCREASE THE LIKELIHOOD of said abortions taking place, the fucking morons...

And as for the usual BigBlandBlather...Kwame and Sharky kicked him through the uprights...shocker! :baaa:


LMAO. Thanks for proving kb's point! The text you are citing says not to judge others, it has nothing to do with the poor. The correct text is the one about the camel and the eye of the needle. And you're right, I can't quote it exactly without referring to the Bible, but that's the passage you should be using.

Brie needs some ointment for that WICKED BURN...lol Leave it to BBB to use a bible verse warning against being judgmental to unwittingly illustrate just how judgmental HE is...:lmao:

http://alllayedout.com/Images/Owned_Pics/graphics/motorcycle_owned.jpg

[Nitro Express]

It's just proof celibacy fucks people up. People need to get fucked and laid. The school nun that cracks the kids with a stick needs sexual release and a lack of pussy makes father want to bang anything including the alter boy. He can intimidate the kid and shut him up.

We aren't that far from the animals at the zoo. I took my nephew to the Seattle zoo and all the animals were doing it. Even two lions were getting it on right by the Jimi Hendrix tribute memorial which for some reason they put in the lion section of the zoo. I can't imagine what would happen if those animals couldn't release their horny energy. They probably would escape and tear the people to shreds. Maybe some would mount the people. It would get ugly. But when a lion is getting laid, why do they want to leave?

[Satan]

LMAO. Thanks for proving kb's point! The text you are citing says not to judge others, it has nothing to do with the poor. The correct text is the one about the camel and the eye of the needle. And you're right, I can't quote it exactly without referring to the Bible, but that's the passage you should be using.

And there's that whole passage in Matthew 25, with the key words "as you do unto the least of these, you do unto Me".

Pretty bad when the Devil has to quote scripture to a self-proclaimed "Christian", isn't it? http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d025.gif

[fifth element]

Yeah, tell us! Who would want to use the Bible to quote Jesus, Forrest........:umm:

hell, no....that wouldn't make ANY sense at all.......:hee:

[fifth element]

So tell us! Do it without a Bible or using any other reference. You won't, because you can't. Neither can the rest of you.

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

-Matthew 7:3-5


I'm w/ kwame....is funny that you should say not to use quotes from Jesus in speaking ABOUT Jesus.....

but, Everything we know about Him tells us he has kindhearted values.
He was compassionate, took care of the poor, the needy, and the sick.
He did not judge others harshly, at least not often....and forgiveness was the new law

[Jesus Christ]

I'm w/ kwame....is funny that you should say not to use quotes from Jesus in speaking ABOUT Jesus.....

but, Everything we know about Him tells us he has kindhearted values.
He was compassionate, took care of the poor, the needy, and the sick.
He did not judge others harshly, at least not often....and forgiveness was the new law

Very well said :)

For verily I say unto all of you, that it is less important that ye can quote My teachings, than ye LIVE according to My teachings.

[Guitar Shark]

Thank my fuckin' post, Jesus!! :mad:

;)

[Jesus Christ]

Such language, Matthew! :jesuslol:

[Guitar Shark]

Much better!

It's about time Jesus thanked me for something.

[Satan]

Doesn't matter. You're still going to Hell! http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d025.gif

[Seshmeister]

Under section 4.321(b) dealing with unacceptable professions.:)

[jhale667]

Pretty bad when the Devil has to quote scripture to a self-proclaimed "Christian", isn't it? http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d025.gif

I heard a rumor you can quote scripture better than anyone, Scratch...just sayin'. :hee:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/667.gif

[Unchainme]

many Christians conveniently forget Christ's stance on the poor.

oh, they believe in it. they just don't think government should do it. (i.e., let somebody ELSE pay for it. i want to keep all of my money...)

Nein.

If I want to make a charitable donation or tithe, I would prefer it to go to a trustworthy charity of my choice, and not into Ace Diamond's pocket.

I don't view paying Taxes as being "Charitable" and a good person, rather just obeying the law set by the land, which Jesus himself preached to do.

Don't get me wrong on this. I am of the belief that Taxes should go to help provide a safety net of sorts, but not a "hand-out", rather a "hand up".

[Unchainme]

BTW, is it really any shock that most of these guys are theological/ethical teachers on this list?

Every professor I've had in that field is left-wing. Every last one. It's really no shocked that they opposed Boehner that much.

[BigBadBrian]

LMAO. Thanks for proving kb's point! The text you are citing says not to judge others, it has nothing to do with the poor. The correct text is the one about the camel and the eye of the needle. And you're right, I can't quote it exactly without referring to the Bible, but that's the passage you should be using.

No dumbass, I used the quote I used because the so-called catholic theologians are judging Boehner on one point without considering the rest of the picture: balancing the budget and reducing the deficit. I'm sure they'll agree with Obama on the rest of his policies also. :lmao:


Yeah, tell us! Who would want to use the Bible to quote Jesus
Another obvious point that went over your head. Who would have thought? :biggrin: It obviously went over the heads of a few of your compadres as well that were whining about not being able to quote Jesus without the use of a Bible. Typical.
I'm saying you only use the Bible when you feel it is convenient. Like when the Huffington Post points out something in it that supposedly supports the liberal agenda.
You and your ilk only quote the Bible or Christ when you feel it is politically advantageous.

[BigBadBrian]

I'm w/ kwame....is funny that you should say not to use quotes from Jesus in speaking ABOUT Jesus.....


I didn't say that. When kb talked about "Christ's stance on the poor," I merely stated that most on here wouldn't know what that was without looking from a Bible... that they had never bother to learn it except to pick and choose quotes when it was politically expedient. To hear how Christianity is mocked in this forum proves that.

[Seshmeister]

You and your ilk only quote the Bible or Christ when you feel it is politically advantageous.

Unlike all those people that quote the bible when it isn't?

You don't half talk some shit. :D

[BigBadBrian]

Nein.

If I want to make a charitable donation or tithe, I would prefer it to go to a trustworthy charity of my choice, and not into Ace Diamond's pocket.

I don't view paying Taxes as being "Charitable" and a good person, rather just obeying the law set by the land, which Jesus himself preached to do.

Don't get me wrong on this. I am of the belief that Taxes should go to help provide a safety net of sorts, but not a "hand-out", rather a "hand up".

True enough...well said.
Charity, certainly a noble gesture, comes from the heart, not the tax bill.
That doesn't mean I don't believe in a social safety net. However, as I'm sure you're aware, welfare and unemployment compensation have gotten way out of hand and even Social Security and Medicare are not used today as they were originally intended.

[BigBadBrian]

Unlike all those people that quote the bible when it isn't?

You don't half talk some shit. :D

I assume you're talking about Christians?

[fifth element]

I didn't say that. When kb talked about "Christ's stance on the poor," I merely stated that most on here wouldn't know what that was without looking from a Bible... that they had never bother to learn it except to pick and choose quotes when it was politically expedient. To hear how Christianity is mocked in this forum proves that.

the terms "political expediency" and "Christianity" should not be used in reference to one another...

as stated, under Jesus, I believe that it was said that Forgiveness is the new rule,
and as I am certainly in no position to sit as judge or jury upon ANY person,
I'll leave that up to God

unless you continue to feel the need, of course...