Yeah, Lets Cut Millitary Benefits Instead of Medicare, Medicaid, and Unemployment

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  • BigBadBrian
    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
    • Jan 2004
    • 10620

    Yeah, Lets Cut Millitary Benefits Instead of Medicare, Medicaid, and Unemployment

    LINK
    Retiree Benefits for the Military Could Face Cuts
    By JAMES DAO and MARY WILLIAMS WALSH
    Published: September 18, 2011

    As Washington looks to squeeze savings from once-sacrosanct entitlements like Social Security and Medicare, another big social welfare system is growing as rapidly, but with far less scrutiny: the health and pension benefits of military retirees.

    Steve Griffin left the Army after five years and thus receives no pension. But he believes the system provides incentives for recruitment and rewards retirees who have endured great hardship.

    Military pensions and health care for active and retired troops now cost the government about $100 billion a year, representing an expanding portion of both the Pentagon budget — about $700 billion a year, including war costs — and the national debt, which together finance the programs.

    Making even incremental reductions to military benefits is typically a doomed political venture, given the public’s broad support for helping troops, the political potency of veterans groups and the fact that significant savings take years to appear.

    But the intense push in Congress this year to reduce the debt and the possibility that the Pentagon might have to begin trimming core programs like weapons procurement, research, training and construction have suddenly made retiree benefits vulnerable, military officials and experts say.

    And if Congress fails to adopt the deficit-reduction recommendations of a bipartisan joint Congressional committee this fall, the Defense Department will be required under debt ceiling legislation passed in August to find about $900 billion in savings over the coming decade. Cuts that deep will almost certainly entail reducing personnel benefits for active and retired troops, Pentagon officials and analysts say.

    “We’ve got to put everything on the table,” Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta said recently on PBS, acknowledging that he was looking at proposals to rein in pension costs.

    Under the current rules, service members who retire after 20 years are eligible for pensions that pay half their salaries for life, indexed for inflation, even if they leave at age 38. They are also eligible for lifetime health insurance through the military’s system, Tricare, at a small fraction of the cost of private insurance, prompting many working veterans to shun employer health plans in favor of military insurance.

    Advocates of revamping the systems argue that they are not just fiscally untenable but also unfair.

    The annual fee for Tricare Prime, an H.M.O.-like program for military retirees, is just $460 for families and has not risen in years, even as health care costs have skyrocketed. Critics of the system say the contribution could be raised substantially and still be far lower than what civilians pay for employer-sponsored health plans, typically about $4,000.

    Those critics also argue that under the current rules, 83 percent of former service members receive no pension payments at all — because only veterans with 20 years of service are eligible. Those with 5 or even 15 years are not, even if they did multiple combat tours. Such a structure would be illegal in the private sector, and a company that tried it could be penalized, experts say.

    “It cries out for some rationalization,” said Sylvester J. Schieber, a former chairman of the Social Security Advisory Board. “Why should we ask somebody to sustain a system that’s unfair by any other measure in our society?”

    But within military circles, and among many members of Congress, the benefits are considered untouchable. Veterans groups and military leaders argue that the system helps retain capable commissioned and noncommissioned officers.

    And having volunteered to put their lives at risk, those people deserve higher-quality benefits, supporters argue. The typical beneficiary, they add, is not a general but a retired noncommissioned officer, with an average pension of about $26,000 a year.

    “The whole reason military people are willing to pursue a career is because after 20, 30 years of extraordinary sacrifice, there is a package commensurate with that sacrifice upon leaving service,” said Steven P. Strobridge, a retired Air Force colonel who is the director of government relations for the Military Officers Association of America, which is lobbying against changes to the benefits.

    A wild-card factor in the debate is the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq and Afghanistan, which some experts say could avoid the stigma of cutting benefits while troops are at war.

    “The fact that you are getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan does make it easier,” said Lawrence J. Korb, a senior Pentagon official in the Reagan administration who was a co-author of a recent proposal for reducing the cost of military health care. “When the war in Iraq was in terrible shape, it was hard to get people to join the military, and no one wanted to touch any military benefits.”

    By far the most contentious proposal circulating in Washington is from a Pentagon advisory panel, the Defense Business Board. It would make the military pension system, a defined benefit plan, more like a 401(k) plan under which the Pentagon would make contributions to a service member’s individual account; contributions by the troops themselves would be optional. Mr. Panetta has said that if adopted, the plan would not apply to current military personnel.

    While health care costs for active and retired troops are growing faster, military pension costs are larger. Last year, for every dollar the Pentagon paid service members, it spent an additional $1.36 for its military retirees, a much smaller group. Even in the troubled world of state and municipal pension funds, pensions almost never cost more than payrolls.

    Citing the fiscal hazards and inequities of the system, the Defense Business Board proposal would allow soldiers with less than 20 years of service to leave with a small nest egg, provided they served a minimum length of time, three to five years. But it would prevent all retirees from receiving benefits until they were 60.

    The business board says that its proposal would reduce the plan’s total liabilities to $1.8 trillion by 2034, from the $2.7 trillion now projected — all without cutting benefits for current service members.

    Steve Griffin of Tallahassee, Fla., is the type of soldier the defense board is trying to appeal to: a former captain who did two tours in Iraq, he left the Army in 2010 after five years of service and thus receives no pension.

    Yet in a sign of the deep support for the existing system, Mr. Griffin says it should be left alone because it provides incentives for recruitment and rewards retirees who have endured great hardship.

    “Yes, it would be nice for people like me,” Mr. Griffin, 28, said of the proposal. “But I think the retirement system now is fair. We shouldn’t take anything from it. If anything, we should add to it.”

    Much like in the debate over Social Security, questions about the sustainability of the military pension system abound.

    Each year the Defense and Treasury Departments set aside more than $75 billion to pay not only current and future benefits but also pensions for service many years in the past. But the retirement fund has not accumulated nearly enough money to cover its total costs, with assets of $278 billion at the end of 2009 and obligations of about $1.4 trillion.

    The government tries to close the shortfall by simply issuing more Treasury securities each year, thereby adding to the nation’s debt.

    Given the political potency of veterans groups, it is unclear whether anyone in Congress will lead an effort to revamp the pension or retiree health systems.

    But the debt ceiling agreement approved this summer by Congress, under which the Pentagon must find $400 billion in reductions over the next 12 years, may force cuts once considered unthinkable. And if Congress does not adopt the recommendations of the bipartisan committee studying deficit reduction, the mandated reductions in Pentagon spending would more than double, to about $900 billion, and fall on just about every category of defense spending.

    Deficit hawks, led by Senator Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma, have begun taking smaller steps, pushing for an array of cuts to military benefits, including ending subsidies for base commissaries and tightening disability compensation for diseases linked to Agent Orange.

    But those trims are considered marginal compared with the deeper reductions many experts say are necessary to contain Pentagon spending.

    “If the trend continues, it will call into question the military’s ability to do other things, like buy equipment, do maintenance, train troops and equip them,” said Nora Bensahel, a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, a nonprofit organization with ties to the Obama administration.

    “At some point, the cost pressures by the retirement benefits will really start to impede military capabilities.”
    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush
  • BigBadBrian
    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
    • Jan 2004
    • 10620

    #2
    Originally posted by BigBadBrian
    LINK
    Under the current rules, service members who retire after 20 years are eligible for pensions that pay half their salaries for life, indexed for inflation, even if they leave at age 38. They are also eligible for lifetime health insurance through the military’s system, Tricare, at a small fraction of the cost of private insurance, prompting many working veterans to shun employer health plans in favor of military insurance.

    Advocates of revamping the systems argue that they are not just fiscally untenable but also unfair.

    The annual fee for Tricare Prime, an H.M.O.-like program for military retirees, is just $460 for families and has not risen in years, even as health care costs have skyrocketed. Critics of the system say the contribution could be raised substantially and still be far lower than what civilians pay for employer-sponsored health plans, typically about $4,000.
    Fuck those critics. I don't use Tricare since I have a plan at work but I know alot of people who need to. Having inexpensive healthcare and retired pay after 20 years service is the cost of having a professional well-trained armed forces where we don't have to rely on conscription.

    And before some smartass says this is a socialist policy, no it's not. Please look the word up if you think that.
    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

    Comment

    • Va Beach VH Fan
      ROTH ARMY FOUNDER
      • Dec 2003
      • 17913

      #3
      You want to piss me off, talk about slashing my retirement....

      I'd bet 90% of the cocksuckers that are bitching never spent one day in uniform....

      That is all...

      Eat Us And Smile - The Originals

      "I have a very belligerent enthusiasm or an enthusiastic belligerence. I’m an intellectual slut." - David Lee Roth

      "We are part of the, not just the culture, but the geography. Van Halen music goes along with like fries with the burger." - David Lee Roth

      Comment

      • FORD
        ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

        • Jan 2004
        • 58760

        #4
        They shouldn't cut either one. Not military benefits, and not Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Unemployment either.

        End the wars. Tax the rich. Tax the corporations. Remove the Social Security cap. End corporate welfare. Problem solved.
        Eat Us And Smile

        Cenk For America 2024!!

        Justice Democrats


        "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

        Comment

        • BITEYOASS
          ROTH ARMY ELITE
          • Jan 2004
          • 6529

          #5
          Hey BigBadBrian you dumbass! The same teabagging assholes who want to cut medicaid, medicare, unemployment and social security ALSO want to cut military benefits.

          Comment

          • Va Beach VH Fan
            ROTH ARMY FOUNDER
            • Dec 2003
            • 17913

            #6
            Originally posted by BITEYOASS
            Hey BigBadBrian you dumbass! The same teabagging assholes who want to cut medicaid, medicare, unemployment and social security ALSO want to cut military benefits.
            He didn't post it because he supports it, he's prior military also....
            Eat Us And Smile - The Originals

            "I have a very belligerent enthusiasm or an enthusiastic belligerence. I’m an intellectual slut." - David Lee Roth

            "We are part of the, not just the culture, but the geography. Van Halen music goes along with like fries with the burger." - David Lee Roth

            Comment

            • Dr. Love
              ROTH ARMY SUPREME
              • Jan 2004
              • 7825

              #7
              I demand the government spend less and people make personal sacrifices (as long as it is in areas that don't affect me personally)!
              I've got the cure you're thinkin' of.

              http://i.imgur.com/jBw4fCu.gif

              Comment

              • BITEYOASS
                ROTH ARMY ELITE
                • Jan 2004
                • 6529

                #8
                You can make up for military retirement costs by getting rid of shitty equipment/weapons/aircraft that don't work or are no longer useful in large quantities (i.e. nuclear warheads).

                Comment

                • knuckleboner
                  Crazy Ass Mofo
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 2927

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
                  You want to piss me off, talk about slashing my retirement....

                  I'd bet 90% of the cocksuckers that are bitching never spent one day in uniform....

                  That is all...

                  ok, to start, i completely agree that 20 year retired military members deserve additional benefits on account of the 20 year military pay is nowhere enough to compensate for the 20 years of service. hands down.

                  yet, i'm open to discussing tricare. near as i can tell, tricare yearly costs to military families average 1/10th of the cost of health care expenses to civilian families. and since tricare premiums are currently not indexed for inflation, they will continue to get effectively cheaper each and every year.

                  i do NOT want to equalize health care premiums for either private sector or public sector civilian workers and military members. as i said, i'm all for the benefits.

                  but, when health care costs are one of the most significant drivers of the debt, i am willing to look at at least some changes, including indexing the tricare premiums to inflation.

                  Comment

                  • LoungeMachine
                    DIAMOND STATUS
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 32555

                    #10
                    Perhaps had we not had DRASTIC tax cuts while fighting 2 wars and bailing out a Bush Economic Meltdown we wouldn't even need to be talking about this.....



                    Reverse most of what the Republican Congress did under Bush and no cuts are required.....
                    Originally posted by Kristy
                    Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                    Originally posted by cadaverdog
                    I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                    Comment

                    • FORD
                      ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                      • Jan 2004
                      • 58760

                      #11
                      Reverse all the stupid shit done since 1980 would be even better.
                      Eat Us And Smile

                      Cenk For America 2024!!

                      Justice Democrats


                      "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                      Comment

                      • BigBadBrian
                        TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 10620

                        #12
                        Originally posted by knuckleboner
                        yet, i'm open to discussing tricare. near as i can tell, tricare yearly costs to military families average 1/10th of the cost of health care expenses to civilian families. and since tricare premiums are currently not indexed for inflation, they will continue to get effectively cheaper each and every year.
                        Actually, active-duty military families pay NOTHING for Tricare. It's when you retire that the premiums come in to play. Let's make that clear.

                        You want to start charging active-duty families for their medical care?

                        You want to raise the premiums on retired military members?

                        You do that and you're basically saying you don't want an all-volunteer force. Stressing the benefits of military service, both active-duty and upon retirement, is the main leverage a recruiter has to fill the ranks.
                        “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

                        Comment

                        • Seshmeister
                          ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                          • Oct 2003
                          • 35163

                          #13
                          That means US spending on military pensions and healthcare is the same as the entire Chinese defence budget and nearly double what anyone else spends on defence!

                          It's going to get a lot worse too once you have tens of thousands of mentally damaged post traumatic ex troops wandering around the place.

                          Comment

                          • Seshmeister
                            ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                            • Oct 2003
                            • 35163

                            #14
                            Originally posted by BigBadBrian
                            Actually, active-duty military families pay NOTHING for Tricare. It's when you retire that the premiums come in to play. Let's make that clear.

                            You want to start charging active-duty families for their medical care?

                            You want to raise the premiums on retired military members?

                            You do that and you're basically saying you don't want an all-volunteer force. Stressing the benefits of military service, both active-duty and upon retirement, is the main leverage a recruiter has to fill the ranks.
                            Your whole argument is tits about ass upside down.

                            If you cut the force numbers to something sensible like by 75% you would still get enough volunteers.

                            Especially if you took that $600 billion saving and gave pensions and healthcare to everyone!

                            Of course that would be so fucking sensible it's impossible.

                            Comment

                            • Seshmeister
                              ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                              • Oct 2003
                              • 35163

                              #15
                              I'm sorry but all I hear from US military people is their love of their country and how they wish to serve and protect their homeland.

                              In reality the US military is far far larger than could ever be needed for defence and as you say relies on the failure of government health and social provisions to pressure the poor into military service to get the basic healthcare, education and pensions available to everyone in the other Western democracies.

                              Economic conscription to feed a military industrial complex. All this patriotism nonsense is just a tool they use to oil the machine.
                              Last edited by Seshmeister; 09-20-2011, 07:03 AM.

                              Comment

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