Eddie's Tone

[vanshipman]

I'm just curious what others are thinking about Eddie's tone on the new record. I think it sounds the best it has in many years. One thing I really love the most is the absence of a lot of effects, it seems to be a fairly straight ahead sound. (Outside of the wah pedal which I think has been used to great effect no pun intended...lol) And the producer squashed any use of that dang sustainer he had been abusing for the past ten years. They did a great job in capturing not just Eddies sound, but the entire band.

On an entirely different note I would like to give major thanks to the Roth Army website for really doing an outstanding job with all thats been going on as of late, and since Ive been a member. A fairly silent member, but loving every minute of the madness and fun that goes on here. Thanks.

[fourthcoming]

I couldn't agree with you more about Ed's tone. It doesn't sound like the classic brown sound so much but it definitely is darker and has more of a bite than anything since 1984. Sounds kick ass to me bro.

[Hummarstra]

I don't like it. Just doesn't have the magic of the brown sound imho. And he's over using the wha, too.

[ELVIS]

LMAO!

His sound is killer, up-to-date, and still retains some of the "brown sound."

I love it !!!


:elvis:

[Calderone]

LMAO!

His sound is killer, up-to-date, and still retains some of the "brown sound."

I love it !!!


:elvis:


Exactly !!!

[DavidLeeNatra]

LMAO!

His sound is killer, up-to-date, and still retains some of the "brown sound."

I love it !!!


:elvis:

:rockin:

[Matt White]

It's that modern MESA/RETCO tone + the EVH "Brown-sound Mojo".......

Just look at how many guitarist in DEATH METAL use his amps...either the new EVH stuff or the older PEAVEY stuff.....

EDDIE's influence is more prevalent than ever before...his thumbprint is all over modern music right now!!!

[VAiN]

I agree, his sound is the best it's been in yeeeeears.. it's saturated and fat, but defined and crisp. I applaud it!

[redfire]

Part of the deal is the fact that the 5150 III is vastly superior to the 5150 II. The 5150 II was a horrible mis-step for Ed. But as most have said, his lack of effects is most notable, with the exception of the wah pedal. The crazy distortion channel on the 5150 III is a monster. Of course, Ed would say : volume is tone, tone comes from your fingers, etc... not everyone is a professional musician and can drop several grand to buy the new wolfgang, 5150 III, and the appropriate cabinets.

[Pink Spider]

There's some Van Hagar tone on some of the music, but that's not a bad thing. The bad thing about Van Hagar was Hagar. Ed and Al's music has never been dull, even if the lyrics were.

[DavidLeeNatra]

There's some Van Hagar tone on some of the music, but that's not a bad thing. The bad thing about Van Hagar was Hagar. Ed and Al's music has never been dull, even if the lyrics were.

sorry...but "Dreams", "Why can't this be Roth" and everything else with "love" in the title sucked musically...

[Pink Spider]

sorry...but "Dreams", "Why can't this be Roth" and everything else with "love" in the title sucked musically...

Well....I can't really disagree.

But, I'm going to risk the impending swarm and potential ban. Dreams probably would have sounded good with Dave. ;)

[DavidLeeNatra]

Well....I can't really disagree.

But, I'm going to risk the impending swarm and potential ban. Dreams probably would have sounded good with Dave. ;)

there was a reason that 5150 was done without Dave...he didn't want to go the pussified road...

[ELVIS]

Well....I can't really disagree.

But, I'm going to risk the impending swarm and potential ban. Dreams probably would have sounded good with Dave. ;)

All of that bullshit would have sounded way better with Dave...

Just like Blood and Fire...

Underneath is that Ripley Van Hagar sounding guitar (for lack of better words) song that you hardly even notice when you're listening to DAVID LEE FUCKING ROTH !!

[So this is love]

All of that bullshit would have sounded way better with Dave...

Just like Blood and Fire...

Underneath is that Ripley Van Hagar sounding guitar (for lack of better words) song that you hardly even notice when you're listening to DAVID LEE FUCKING ROTH !!

Even VHIII with DLR would have kicked asses.......

[SNIPER]

Well....I can't really disagree.

But, I'm going to risk the impending swarm and potential ban. Dreams probably would have sounded good with Dave. ;)

yes, it would have sounded better just for the fact that DLR would be on it alone. But it would have still been the worst VH song.

[ELVIS]

Even VHIII with DLR would have kicked asses.......

Oh yeah, I've said that many times...

There is some really good guitar on that album...

It's just unlistenable...

[SNIPER]

There's some Van Hagar tone on some of the music, but that's not a bad thing. The bad thing about Van Hagar was Hagar. Ed and Al's music has never been dull, even if the lyrics were.

Not really, The new tone has balls, even on the "some" you speak of. VHagar tone was thin crap with a shit echo.

[ELVIS]

Ed and Al's music has never been dull, even if the lyrics were.

Yes it has...

Quite a bit of that crap was just Ed going through the same old tired motions...

Basically phonong it in...

[vanhalen1r2]

LMAO!

His sound is killer, up-to-date, and still retains some of the "brown sound."

I love it !!!


:elvis:

Sums it up for me.

[Seshmeister]

There's some Van Hagar tone on some of the music, but that's not a bad thing.

Crazy talk.

[vanshipman]

What I love about Eddie's playing on this album is that he got creative with his solos and riffs. On previous Hagar releases he just rehashed a lot of his favorite go to licks, on this album he sounds inspired and hungry. He knew that the world would be scrutinizing everything, and thats a good thing. When you have something to prove, it brings out the best. This album is mindblowing.

[Terry]

Far as Ed's tone, with the exception of 5150, OU812 and Van Halen III, even though it has evolved over the years I've never really had a problem with it.

I'd say right around 1984 or so, Ed's recorded/studio tone lost a slight bit of bite...perhaps a bit too processed on 1984 in comparison to the rest of the 6-pack.

Yeah...Ed's certainly using his wah quite a bit on the new stuff, eh?

I wouldn't say the guitar tone on the new stuff is too "Van Hagarish"...I mean, the difference is Roth being there and what Eddie is playing as opposed to what Ed's guitar sounds like.

[78/84 guy]

Well I think Ed sat down and said too himself if i'm going too do a whole album with Dave I need too really bring it our i'll get killed by the fans and critics !! He did !! Lots of falling down the steps and landing on his feet. His tone is great.

[Eyes of the Night]

Elvis: LMAO!

His sound is killer, up-to-date, and still retains some of the "brown sound."

I love it !!!





:appl:

[SNIPER]

I am very pleased with the guitar tone, it really has the balls to back up this masterpiece. Although the songs are A+ killer no matter what I tend to believe a 51U8C.K. tone would have made it a little less stellar.

[Nitro Express]

I own a EVH 5150 III and a Peavey 5150 II. I think the 5150 III is a 5150 II with the crunch mode of the clean channel being a stand alone channel with it's own EQ's. I can get a pretty good classic sound out of both just by tweaking the knobs a bit. You have to remember both amps run on the same philosophy pioneered by Mike Soldano and that is using the preamp to shape the sound and create most the distortion. You can make a real hot rodded amp this way without blowing power tubes and transformers. It is by no means a classic Marshall plexi but you can get in that territory with the benefit of more drive when you want it. More control over your sound and more reliability.

[DavidLeeNatra]

hey VA! why not moving this thread to the "gear"-forum? or is you WMD (webmaster disease) under medication now?

[VAiN]

I own a EVH 5150 III and a Peavey 5150 II.

Well color me a little jealous.. I have an original 5150 'block letter' half stack and am very happy with it.. I'd love to plug into a 5150 III though..

[Hummarstra]

LMAO!

His sound is killer, up-to-date, and still retains some of the "brown sound."

I love it !!!




:elvis:

Well, we don't all have great ears. There ain't nothing "brown" about it. But, don't wanna piss on everybody's parade. Many people love Paul Gilbert's tone, too, which is shit on a stick really (but, well played, of course.)

[ashstralia]

whoa! gday eyes!

i reckon ed's sound is up to date; it's 2012 people. personally i love the wah; overall his tone is thick and strong.
as we all know, it's all in your hands anyway. ask Sir WARF, Bantonelli, or JHale about eddies tone! :)


stay frosty.

[DlocRoth]

Ed is on fucking fire on this album. But like Hummarstra said, it ain't the "brown" sound. Period. Point.

[Nitro Express]

Well color me a little jealous.. I have an original 5150 'block letter' half stack and am very happy with it.. I'd love to plug into a 5150 III though..

Hang onto that block letter. They already have kind of a following going. I really don't think the high gain channel on the III is all that different than what's on your amp but there is a better classic crunch similar to the 5150II and cleans on par with the 5150II. What's nice about the III is you can set all three channels the way you like them because they all have their own EQ setup. So really it's like three amps in one box.

[ELVIS]

hey VA! why not moving this thread to the "gear"-forum? or is you WMD (webmaster disease) under medication now?

Now now, be nice Natra...

We don't want any undue tension on the boards...

Now, let me find a be nice smiley...

How 'bout this...

:yo:

[ELVIS]

I see there's a group hug smiley...

:grouphug:

[ELVIS]

But like Hummarstra said, it ain't the "brown" sound. Period. Point.

I disagree...

Circle get's a square...

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UuTg5wqiqDE/0.jpg

"coochie coochie!"

[Va Beach VH Fan]

hey VA! why not moving this thread to the "gear"-forum? or is you WMD (webmaster disease) under medication now?

I don't know what the fuck your problem is, for the last time, I did not move any of your threads....

[ELVIS]

:grouphug:


:elvis:

[DavidLeeNatra]

I don't know what the fuck your problem is, for the last time, I did not move any of your threads....

man...where is the fun gone on this site...

[ZahZoo]

Ed's current tone... the lows sound like an earthy growl from the bowels of hell. Mid's are tight and not overly bright. High's cut like a knife.

Overall I find it seriously balanced across the sound spectrum on both full sweep bar chords and and single note leads. That's not an easy balance to strike...

No, it's not really the brown sound... it's fuller, cleaner, crisper and better balanced. His middle channel saturated blues tone... hell it's to die for!!!

[ELVIS]

I think Ed's tone is similar to the tone on WACF...

The difference being that the first five albums were recorded on tube consoles and mixed to analog tape. Both mediums adding their inherent warmth...

The new album is recorded digitally and nothing is added digitally to color the sound...


:elvis:

[Nitro Express]

I think Ed's tone is similar to the tone on WACF...

The difference being that the first five albums were recorded on tube consoles and mixed to analog tape. Both mediums adding their inherent warmth...

The new album is recorded digitally and nothing is added digitally to color the sound...


:elvis:

Oh man. That old board Don Landee put together for Ed at 5150 was a ancient thing. I guess it sounded good but if you look at photos of the original control room it was like a trip back to the 60's. But then some of those old boxes from the 60's sounded fabulous.

[ELVIS]

Exactly...

That's one of the reasons for the total change in sound on 1984...

[ELVIS]

But the consoles on the first five albums were from the 50's I believe...

[Nitro Express]

http://vintagekramer.com/5150e.htm

Heres some old 5150 studio photos. Don got that old board out of one of the Hollywood studios when they upgraded their equipment. I forgot which one. It was something like Western Sound or something like that. It's an old analog board with a patch bay running Ampex 1 inch tape. 5150 was actually done on the cheap using used equipment and was never originally intended to be a full blown production studio. It was basically Ed's man cave.

[bigtrouble77]

I don't think the tone resembles anything close to the 6-pack classic brown sound. Those albums had a very organic sound that I have not heard since 1984. I remember listening to Best of Both Worlds after a CVH song and was amazed at how bad it sounded. Those mixes had much more reverb and the instruments had great separation.

What I've noticed with this album is that the distortion sounds overblown... I did not notice this until I hooked it up to my studio monitors. It has the blown sound with clipping pops cleaned up. A very compressed sound.

The bass always influences the guitar sound, and this album is no exception. The bass (understandably) is the highest in the mix that it's ever been. I think there's actually too much low end here to the point of being hard to hear some of the instrument separation. I hate to say it, but the mix is a little muddy in some places.

Finally, the production feels a lot like Balance to me (never listened to vhIII). The guitar is heavier, the low end of the mix is way heavier, but the overall tone is very similar (especially with You and Your Blues). I would have preferred the use of more reverb and echo with a crunchier guitar tone, but what we got is pretty good. It's really the performances that makes this album so great and the production is good enough. Although, if I had my hand at mixing this album I would have done it much differently.

Edit: I'm comparing this production and tone to the original six-pack sans Diver Down. Those are some of the best produced albums I've ever heard (VHII being my favorite). ADKOT is a great (modern) production, but it just does't compare to those 5 albums.

[SNIPER]

I don't think the tone resembles anything close to the 6-pack classic brown sound. Those albums had a very organic sound that I have not heard since 1984. I remember listening to Best of Both Worlds after a CVH song and was amazed at how bad it sounded. Those mixes had much more reverb and the instruments had great separation.

What I've noticed with this album is that the distortion sounds overblown... I did not notice this until I hooked it up to my studio monitors. It has the blown sound with clipping pops cleaned up. A very compressed sound.

The bass always influences the guitar sound, and this album is no exception. The bass (understandably) is the highest in the mix that it's ever been. I think there's actually too much low end here to the point of being hard to hear some of the instrument separation. I hate to say it, but the mix is a little muddy in some places.

Finally, the production feels a lot like Balance to me (never listened to vhIII). The guitar is heavier, the low end of the mix is way heavier, but the overall tone is very similar (especially with You and Your Blues). I would have preferred the use of more reverb and echo with a crunchier guitar tone, but what we got is pretty good. It's really the performances that makes this album so great and the production is good enough. Although, if I had my hand at mixing this album I would have done it much differently.

Edit: I'm comparing this production and tone to the original six-pack sans Diver Down. Those are some of the best produced albums I've ever heard (VHII being my favorite). ADKOT is a great (modern) production, but it just does't compare to those 5 albums.

[bigtrouble77]

I'm sure the production sounds great on your iPod headphones and that's all that matters.

[SNIPER]

I'm sure the production sounds great on your iPod headphones and that's all that matters.

Good thing studio monitors are in every household across the world. I guess the car, Home system, and "iPod" are old news now.

[SNIPER]

Good thing studio monitors are in every household across the world. I guess the car, Home system, and "iPod" are old news now.

It's all really just opinion. I respect yours. :beers8:

[bigtrouble77]

It's all really just opinion. I respect yours. :beers8:
Likewise, but you gotta realize that when we start talking tone the gloves are off ;)

[ELVIS]

The warm sound on the early albums are more of a result of the recording process and are not at all a direct representation of Ed's actual tone at the time...

[bigtrouble77]

The warm sound on the early albums are more of a result of the recording process and are not at all a direct representation of Ed's actual tone at the time...
I agree to some degree, recording analog is like shooting film... but I've also heard the AxeFX2 and the tone is very close to those albums. I think the main problem is compression. Those albums had a higher dynamic range that gave the recordings so much character. I guess you would only notice that if you had high end gear. Actually, the newer stuff probably sounds better with cheap headphones and car speakers, but I'll still argue it isn't worth it.

[ELVIS]

I have high end gear...

I'm waiting to hear the actual CD and the vinyl...

[Sarge]

I can't wait for the Vinyl! It's going to be awesome!

[ELVIS]

I would expect it to be mastered differently for vinyl due to the wide range of lows and highs of the digital source...

Should sound better...

I plan to transfer the vinyl to digital for the version I'll listen to the most...

[So this is love]

The warm sound on the early albums are more of a result of the recording process and are not at all a direct representation of Ed's actual tone at the time...

Also read that Ed didn't like how the guitar in earlier cvh always came out from the right side with bass/drums on the left side of the speakers instead of a stereo output. He found this out in his car, try this and once you notice its very annoying... I wonder if this is resolved with adkot...

[ELVIS]

I like the guitar on one side on the early albums...

[tjvhou812]

well i disagree,i think that guitar sound could have came of the diver down album, not any of the van hagar albums

[bigtrouble77]

Also read that Ed didn't like how the guitar in earlier cvh always came out from the right side with bass/drums on the left side of the speakers instead of a stereo output. He found this out in his car, try this and once you notice its very annoying... I wonder if this is resolved with adkot...

I don't get it, that's the definition of stereo output. Diver Down is the only album that isn't mixed like this and the old tapes sound like a mono recording. The recent remasters fixed this up significantly, but it's still a weak mix.

[VAiN]

man...where is the fun gone on this site...

It's going on the road Feb 18..

[DavidLeeNatra]

It's going on the road Feb 18..

hope it brings some sense of humor for some webmodmasters... ;)

[ELVIS]

It's gone all serious now...


:cheer:

[jhale667]

All I can say having been 10 ft away from 3 raging EVH 5150 III full-stacks the other night is the Ed's tone is KILLING again...gone is the 2007 fizz...yes, there's more preamp goin' on, but this time it's not harsh or buzzy...all three channels sounded magnificent, and his effects (artfully used as ever) sounded HUGE - lush and spacious. I was beyond impressed...our guitar hero is back, and firing on all cylinders, as is his rig!! I love the cabs with no grille-cloth too, very Fair Warning kinda vibe visually. It also bears noting I didn't walk out of there (more) DEAF, either...it was plenty loud, but not punishing or painful...

Ed's chops are back through the ceiling :eek: It'll be interesting to see what people think of the effects usage... I like how he's using them this time out. I remember someone saying they hoped he stayed away from the wah...well, it's all over "The Trouble with Never", and it's a GOOD thing...





:guitar:

http://pbr65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/utf-8BTG9zIEFuZ2VsZXMtMjAxMjAyMDEtMDAzMzcuanBn.jpg?t=1 328230971

[DLR Bridge]

Great to hear! Can't wait to have my face pleasantly torn off at the Garden in 3 weeks and a day! Wah is a good thing. It's the sustainer that needs only to be used sparingly in my book. That being said, I hope they play Honeybabysweetiedoll.

[jhale667]

From what I'm hearing it seems everything he's using (the Sustainer, the Octave pedal, the wah) is being used sparingly and totally embellishes whatever he's doing, rather than being the foundation of it... I love it. Can't wait to have my face torn off AGAIN in a few months...

[Golden AWe]

I'm no guitar expert...I can't tell "tone from tone"..but I'm saying this new album could be called "Eddie Van Halen: Resurrection" in my opinion.

Especially track 8 to 12...first, on "Honeybabysweetiedoll" he goes through the modern metal music...but what Eddie has, and majority of the metal guitarists don't have, is HEART, SOUL and BLUES in his playing...he can add soul, even if he's going through all the "Pantera" and "Slayer" and all the 1000 metal playing followers of him and the toughest "kerrykings" of metal.

Then, on "The Trouble with never" he turns into a totally funky mode...and boy does he do it well. It's a bit like he did on "Drop dead legs", but with a even funkier groove.

Then, on "Outta Space"...he shreds a modern version of genuine Van Halen "On Fire" and "Lighting up the sky" -kind of rock tune...

and back to "Stay Frosty"...then again the FUN is back...it has to do with Dave too, but yeah, the FUN of Van Halen is back...Ice Cream Man 2012...not copying...but making it sound FUN HALEN...

And "Big River"...this is a very classic Van Halen too...but 100 times better than it did as a demo...he has really added to it. The solo is INSANELY GOOD!

Yeah I can't say a thing about guitar techniques...but I know I love Eddie Van Halen 2012!!!

[indeedido]

I like the tone. More presence and bite than recent times. But I still want the wah dialed out. I don't like it with high gain. Don't like it added to CVH songs either. Can't wait to pick up the disc tomorrow and hear it on something other than my computer.

[Hummarstra]

I agree with everything everyone has said here, except the "brown" part. It ain't brown.

[evil_lil]

I just got to listen to the full cd this morning and there is way too much take in. I am fully stoked. Never thought I would be this excited to hear Eddie Van Halen again. Never thought I'd care about his tone again but he's doing some new shit and I like it.

There is so much there and he's just killin' it.

[ELVIS]

I agree with everything everyone has said here, except the "brown" part. It ain't brown.

If it were recorded better it probably would be...

[Hardrock69]

I am perfectly satisfied with how it sounds. No complaints. No looking a gift horse in the ear. :yo:

[sadaist]

I haven't read this thread yet before I post. Didn't want my listening opinion skewed 1 way or the other. Eddie sounds incredible and like Eddie. But....I'm kinda mising that "Little Dreamer" type brown sound. I hear a few spots where it's getting close. And the whole thing has a great sound & CRUNCH! to it. But just a tad off. I suppose almost 30 years of upgrading & switching out gear that tiny little nuance might be lost. I love the album...just saying it's not quite as brown as the 6 pack.

I loves da CRUNCH!

[diverj5150]

I'm glad someone opened a thread on this. When I heard Tattoo, I was extremely disheartened; Eddie has opened a new chapter in his tone.

His tone sounds nothing like the first 6 albums, or the Van Hagar Spammy era. His tone now sounds like someone dialed his tone up in 30 seconds at a Guitar Center on a crap amp. I'm not saying his amp is bad, the translation to Pro Tools just didn't occur correctly. I also know that Eddie doesn't want any compression or eq added once he's recorded. He frequency range is stretched to the lows and highs taking over the mix, not in a good way and it's over saturated. The saturation with the bass is too much; add Wolf's bass guitar in there and the whole mix doesn't work. If you listen, Al's snare literally disappears at times cause Eddie's tone is not brown.

I'm not trying to stir anything, I just really love great tone of the first 6 albums, and to me, my opinion, his tone is horrible.... Go listen to Tattoo, and then put on Unchained!

[ELVIS]

I hope the vinyl production is much softer...

Otherwise my $50,000 moonrock stylus will jump to it's death...


:elvis:

[ELVIS]

It's the digital realm that makes his tone so harsh...

Way too much clipping...

[Nitro Express]

I'm glad someone opened a thread on this. When I heard Tattoo, I was extremely disheartened; Eddie has opened a new chapter in his tone.

His tone sounds nothing like the first 6 albums, or the Van Hagar Spammy era. His tone now sounds like someone dialed his tone up in 30 seconds at a Guitar Center on a crap amp. I'm not saying his amp is bad, the translation to Pro Tools just didn't occur correctly. I also know that Eddie doesn't want any compression or eq added once he's recorded. He frequency range is stretched to the lows and highs taking over the mix, not in a good way and it's over saturated. The saturation with the bass is too much; add Wolf's bass guitar in there and the whole mix doesn't work. If you listen, Al's snare literally disappears at times cause Eddie's tone is not brown.

I'm not trying to stir anything, I just really love great tone of the first 6 albums, and to me, my opinion, his tone is horrible.... Go listen to Tattoo, and then put on Unchained!

It also doesn't have enough cowbell.

[ThrillsNSpills]

It's the digital realm that makes his tone so harsh...

Way too much clipping...

Maybe people forget when they heard Running with the Devil it was analog and not this sampled digital excuse for tone which Ed has zero to do with. (he actually threw a fit over it years ago)

[diverj5150]

It also doesn't have enough cowbell.

It's needs a WHOLE LOT OF COWBELL

[sadaist]

It also doesn't have enough cowbell.


You mean overhead plumbing pipe right?