No Easy Op: The Navy SEAL & Sp Op Thread

[Nickdfresh]

Many of the Marines I've been around don't like the Blackwater guys. Generally, it deals with their observations of SEALs when they where out in the fleet together. Since a good deal of the trigger pullers in Blackwater are SEALs that bias remains. Hopefully breaking it down Barnie Style will help you understand my past posts/comments. It also goes to prove that you haven't spent any time around contractors, and seen what they do. All your knowledge comes from reading books and newspapers. Your views have been bent by a selective reading of what other people saw, experienced, and reported through their internal bias/filters.

Life was meant to be a combination of actual experiences and education. One supports the other and leads to the path of enlightenment.

What's funny is that MOST, and I mean the vast majority, of the Blackie trigger pullers were people with rather mundane MOS'es, and that real ex-SEAL's can make bank other places...I have heard the SEAL "Hollywood" bias though, from a former Special Forces commander who said he preferred the Marine Force Recon--same training, less attitude...

[BigBadBrian]

I have heard the SEAL "Hollywood" bias though, from a former Special Forces commander who said he preferred the Marine Force Recon--same training, less attitude...

Bullshit! Force Recon DOES NOT get anywhere the same amount or type of training the SEALS do. :gun:

[Seshmeister]

Those at Sea World were impressive but I worry that maybe they are over trained.

[Nickdfresh]

Bullshit! Force Recon DOES NOT get anywhere the same amount or type of training the SEALS do. :gun:

I stand corrected in that the training is not the same, however, they do receive very rigorous training in their own right and are spec ops capable. I believe some do go through actual SEAL training...

[Seshmeister]

Before we get too carried away about how 'amazing' the training of US SEALs is in comparison to other countries special forces I think they should add a class about not throwing fucking grenades at the hostage you are trying to rescue and then lying about it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/13/linda-norgrove-us-commando-disciplinary

[Nickdfresh]

Before we get too carried away about how 'amazing' the training of US SEALs is in comparison to other countries special forces I think they should add a class about not throwing fucking grenades at the hostage you are trying to rescue and then lying about it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/13/linda-norgrove-us-commando-disciplinary

I don't think the SEALs are any more effective than most other well-funded, Western special forces or hostage rescue units like the SAS, GIGN, GSG9, etc. I do think they have a fairly good track record since the "War on Terrah'" began. However, prior to that they were often seen as arrogant dicks that didn't have a lot of talking room after having several ignominious instances after Vietnam such as men drowning off Grenada in 1983 and with an apparent "intelligence failure" resulting in casualties during the invasion of Panama in another instance of commanders wanting to showcase their spec ops superstars by using them inappropriately...

I'm no commando bad-ass nor an expert by any means, but using a fragmentation grenade in the above operation seems inexcusable when they have numerous types of 'flash bangs' available...

*it may be perhaps unfair generalization, but the perception is that the SEAL's are sometimes book-writing marketing-hype Hollywoods whereas the members of other units such as the Army Delta Force tend to more quiet professionals...

[FORD]

Those at Sea World were impressive but I worry that maybe they are over trained.

I had a recon team of otters stalking me the other day when I was walking around the lake. Sneaky little bastards....

[BigBadBrian]

I don't think the SEALs are any more effective than most other well-funded, Western special forces or hostage rescue units like the SAS, GIGN, GSG9, etc.

:lmao: :lmao:

[Nickdfresh]

Really Brian? How many successful premier hostage rescues has SEAL Team 6/Dev Group performed? All the ones I've listed have carried out mass hostage rescues, often in foreign countries with very limited national resources and limited power projection...

[BigBadBrian]

Really Brian? How many successful premier hostage rescues has SEAL Team 6/Dev Group performed? All the ones I've listed have carried out mass hostage rescues, often in foreign countries with very limited national resources and limited power projection...

You've never heard about ANY of the shit SEAL TEAM 6 or any other SEAL TEAM did until your boy Barry came along and told the press. For good reason. Obama is an asshat.

http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0610/asshatImage2.jpg

[Nickdfresh]

Navy SEAL wrote 'No Easy Day' after being pushed out of SEAL Team 6

A group of Special Ops veterans released its own e-book, 'No Easy Op,' suggesting 'No Easy Day' author Matt Bissonnette wrote his book in part due to ‘bad blood’ with his former unit.


The publication of 'No Easy Op' further complicates the debate over 'No Easy Day,' former Navy SEAL Matt Bissonnette's account of the raid on Osama bin Laden, published this week under the alias Mark Owen.

By Husna Haq
posted September 4, 2012 at 2:48 pm EDT

As retired Navy SEAL Mark Owens’s (a.k.a Matt Bissonnette) “No Easy Day” hits shelves today, a new e-book on Special Operations offers fresh insight into why Bissonnette broke his code of silence with his tell-all account of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden.

A group of Special Ops veterans released its own e-book Monday, “No Easy Op: The Unclassified Analysis of the Mission that Killed Osama bin Laden,” which suggests Bissonnette “was willing to break the code of silence honored by many commandos because of ‘bad blood’ with his former unit, the elite SEAL Team 6,” writes The New York Times.

According to the NYT, the e-book claims Bissonnette was “effectively pushed out of SEAL Team 6 after he expressed interest last year in leaving the Navy and starting a business.”

“How was he repaid for his honesty and 14 years of service?” the Special Ops writers ask in the e-book. “He was ostracized from his unit with no notice and handed a plane ticket back to Virginia from a training operation.” After that treatment, Bissonnette “felt less compunction” about writing “No Easy Day.”

“No Easy Day” was published as scheduled Tuesday despite a storm of controversy about the firsthand account of the top-secret raid and threat of a government lawsuit. The Pentagon has threatened to sue Bissonnette for breaching his contract by not submitting the manuscript for review early enough in the publication processs.

The publication of “No Easy Op” further complicates the debate over Bissonnette’s account. The e-book was produced by sofrep.com, a website about the news, culture, and weaponry of the Special Ops produced by former commandos. Brandon Webb is a founder of the site and a former SEALs sniper, according to the NYT. In the NYT article, Webb says the e-book is based on “conversations that he and his co-authors had with current members of SEAL Team 7, none of whom are identified.”

(Incidentally, Webb also wrote his own account of his military experience, “The Red Circle,” which was also not submitted for review. But he was not penalized, he says, because the book came out years after missions it describes, and included details already made public.)

“No Easy Op” is largely sympathetic to Bissonnette, according to media reviews. It describes the former Navy SEAL as “an operator’s operator” and says it is highly unlikely “No Easy Day” revealed any vital information about SEAL tactics and procedures. Nonetheless, the e-book does scold Bissonnette for not submitting the book for review, suggesting that move would have placated government officials and put to rest concerns about security breaches. And it emphasizes the point that Bissonnette was less likely to abide by protocol after having been slighted by his former unit.

Whatever Bissonnette’s motivation may be, the former Navy SEAL’s co-author in “No Easy Day,” Kevin Maurer, said in a statement that Bissonnette’s account has nothing but praise for other SEALs and military personnel. “After spending several very intense months working with Mark Owen on this book, I know that he wrote this book solely to share a story about the incredible men and women defending America all over the world,” the statement reads. “Any suggestion otherwise is as ill informed as it is inaccurate. What’s more, Mark has an unshakable respect for the U.S. military, in particular the men he served with. That’s why not one negative word was written about anyone he served with.”

Still, the ongoing controversy over “No Easy Day” has the authors of “No Special Op” predicting Bissonnette’s book may be a game changer in the field. As Americans’ interest in commando culture swells and more retired Special Ops veterans consider sharing their accounts in books, movies, and more, the Pentagon will likely crack down on tell-all revelations like this – making firsthand accounts like these rarer, suggests the e-book. “No Easy Day” it writes, “will result in blowback that will drive policy change across the entire Special Operations community regarding operators’ ability to write books in the future. Hollywood and media access will be virtually impossible for the foreseeable future.”

Husna Haq is a Monitor correspondent.

© The Christian Science Monitor. (http://www.csmonitor.com/Books/chapter-and-verse/2012/0904/Navy-SEAL-wrote-No-Easy-Day-after-being-pushed-out-of-SEAL-Team-6-video) All Rights Reserved. Terms under which this service is provided to you. Privacy Policy

[Nickdfresh]

You've never heard about ANY of the shit SEAL TEAM 6 or any other SEAL TEAM did until your boy Barry came along and told the press. For good reason. Obama is an asshat.

http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0610/asshatImage2.jpg

Really? Brian, that might be one of the biggest pieces of disingenuous bullshit you've ever posted here. Yeah, the SEALs were just sooooo secret!! :rolleyes:

http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/51/51319/LOT-DV579.jpg

http://www.navyseals.com/richard-marcinko

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Marcinko

I know you hate Obama, fine. I hated Bush. But do you ever question lying all the time in order to rationalize your views?

[jhale667]

I know you hate Obama, fine. I hated Bush. But do you ever question lying all the time in order to rationalize your views?

Nope, he's a true Repuke - unconcerned with pesky "facts"... much like his "boys" Wrongney and Eddie Munster.

[Nickdfresh]

Yeah, Obama just blew the lid off the ultra secret SEAL T6/Devgru!:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_SEALs_in_fiction


Publication Date: March 1, 1993 | Series: Rogue Warrior
A brilliant virtuoso of violence, Richard Marcinko rose through Navy ranks to create and command one of this country's most elite and classified counterterrorist units, SEAL TEAM SIX. Now this thirty-year veteran recounts the secret missions and Special Warfare madness of his worldwide military career -- and the riveting truth about the top-secret Navy SEALs.

Marcinko was almost inhumanly tough, and proved it on hair-raising missions across Vietnam and a war-torn world: blowing up supply junks, charging through minefields, jumping at 19,000 feet with a chute that wouldn't open, fighting hand-to-hand in a hellhole jungle. For the Pentagon, he organized the Navy's first counterterrorist unit: the legendary SEAL TEAM SIX, which went on classified missions from Central America to the Middle East, the North Sea, Africa and beyond.

Then Marcinko was tapped to create Red Cell, a dirty-dozen team of the military's most accomplished and decorated counterterrorists. Their unbelievable job was to test the defenses of the Navy's most secure facilities and installations. The result was predictable: all hell broke loose.

Here is the hero who saw beyond the blood to ultimate justice -- and the decorated warrior who became such a maverick that the Navy brass wanted his head on a pole, and for a time, got it. Richard Marcinko -- ROGUE WARRIOR.

Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Rogue-Warrior-Richard-Marcinko/dp/0671795937)


Who's the "asshat" BigDumbBrian?

[chefcraig]

I had a recon team of otters stalking me the other day when I was walking around the lake. Sneaky little bastards....

You pretty much realise that you have seen it all and wished you had not after working retail one day and witnessing an entire family of obese assholes (including the overtly, disgustingly overweight kids) check out all three or four of your store's mobility assist scooters in order to plow around the aisles, all while munching on bags of potato chips and drinking super-sized, depth-charge sized fountain sodas. To make matters worse, they start yelling at each other.


http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww155/Jlocoyote/fat-guy-on-scooter.jpg

[ELVIS]

This book is just another part of the misinformation campaign...

BIN LADEN DIED IN 2001 !!!!

If this whole bullshit story were true, this book would have never seen the light of day...

A publisher would normally seek clearance from the pentagon or some other high level government authority to publish a book like this in order to keep from LOSING THEIR ASS !!

But we're supposed to believe that the Pentagon sent this guy a nasty letter !!

Oh my...

The whole story STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN !!!!!!!


:elvis:

[baru911]

Really Brian? How many successful premier hostage rescues has SEAL Team 6/Dev Group performed? All the ones I've listed have carried out mass hostage rescues, often in foreign countries with very limited national resources and limited power projection...


Any of these ring a bell?
1) Happened when they saved this Captain of the Maersk Alabama. You know the Captain...His name is Captain Phillips.
2)They save both Jessica Buchanan and Dane Poul Thisted who were held as hostages in Somalia for 3+ months.

Not a rescue but pretty important -
A sniper and a spotter from Red Team were the ones that lazed Musab al-Zarqawi's last location. He of course failed to leave that location alive. Too bad.
They also did a whole bunch of oil rig stuff when the Gulf War started. Of course, they were never there and it never happened. However, the oil rigs some how got cleared of the "issues" on them.

[ELVIS]

None of that really matters...

[FORD]

I have yet to see any concrete evidence - pun intentional - that Hopalong Al Zarqawi ever actually existed.

He was an anonymous police-style sketch. Then he died. Then he was alive again. Then he lost a leg. Then he was supposedly seen running with two whole legs. Then he was killed again. Then he was supposedly in one of those execution videos, where all the "terrorists" were 6 ft tall white guys who were no more native Arabic speakers than I am. And then finally he was supposedly killed for the last time when 50 tons of rubble landed on top of him when his house was bombed, yet 2 hours later a photo was released of a corpse that sort of resembled the police sketch, but not a scar on him.

I doubt he ever existed at all, and in fact, the BCE even admitted he was a work of fiction meant to "catapult the propaganda" (as Chimpy said)

[baru911]

*it may be perhaps unfair generalization, but the perception is that the SEAL's are sometimes book-writing marketing-hype Hollywoods whereas the members of other units such as the Army Delta Force tend to more quiet professionals...

The books and all the freaking news that have come out lately are part of a directive in the Navy to increase the number of SEAls. Why do you think there was a reality TV show about the making of class 234? Also, there have been a few books written by former CAG guys. One was based to make the TV show The Unit. Another one was the book about the battle of Tora Bora and UBL's escape.

[baru911]

I have yet to see any concrete evidence - pun intentional - that Hopalong Al Zarqawi ever actually existed.

He was an anonymous police-style sketch. Then he died. Then he was alive again. Then he lost a leg. Then he was supposedly seen running with two whole legs. Then he was killed again. Then he was supposedly in one of those execution videos, where all the "terrorists" were 6 ft tall white guys who were no more native Arabic speakers than I am. And then finally he was supposedly killed for the last time when 50 tons of rubble landed on top of him when his house was bombed, yet 2 hours later a photo was released of a corpse that sort of resembled the police sketch, but not a scar on him.

I doubt he ever existed at all, and in fact, the BCE even admitted he was a work of fiction meant to "catapult the propaganda" (as Chimpy said)

This all comes from a guy who gives Elvis crap about conspiracy theories and Alex Jones. That sounds alot like what Alex might view as the truth.

FORD do some research on him and his time in Egypt with the Brotherhood and what the Egyptian Government did to him when they caught him, how he got out of prison and how he got to know UBL. Maybe you'll get a better understanding of what he stood for and what shaped him into the self-hating POS he was when he was alive.

[Nickdfresh]

Any of these ring a bell?
1) Happened when they saved this Captain of the Maersk Alabama. You know the Captain...His name is Captain Phillips.
2)They save both Jessica Buchanan and Dane Poul Thisted who were held as hostages in Somalia for 3+ months.

Both small cases whereas the GIGN and GSG9 have stormed entire airliners...


Not a rescue but pretty important -
A sniper and a spotter from Red Team were the ones that lazed Musab al-Zarqawi's last location. He of course failed to leave that location alive. Too bad.
They also did a whole bunch of oil rig stuff when the Gulf War started. Of course, they were never there and it never happened. However, the oil rigs some how got cleared of the "issues" on them.

Irrelevant to the discussion...

[Nickdfresh]

The books and all the freaking news that have come out lately are part of a directive in the Navy to increase the number of SEAls.

Really? Is that why the Pentagon is probably going to sue Bissonette? Their has always been SEAL news and publicity going back to the early 1980s at least, and they certainly don't need anymore press. I'd say a large number of kids join the Navy thinking one day they might be SEALs even though only a fraction will even get to try out...


Why do you think there was a reality TV show about the making of class 234? Also, there have been a few books written by former CAG guys. One was based to make the TV show The Unit. Another one was the book about the battle of Tora Bora and UBL's escape.

There's also public consternation among Naval special warfare officers that there is too much getting out on how they train and operate, and there have always been more than enough potential recruits...


Barbara Starr, CNN Pentagon Correspondent

WASHINGTON (CNN) — The commander of U.S. Navy SEALs has written a scathing message to them, saying he is “disappointed, embarrassed and concerned” that troops are now openly speaking and writing about their secret work.

CNN obtained a copy of the message signed by Rear Adm. Sean Pybus, head of the Naval Special Warfare Command, or NSW, and sent to all 2,500 SEALs and some 5,500 support troops he oversees.

He starts by noting the core value of the community, which is, “We do NOT advertise the nature of our work, NOR do we seek recognition for our actions.” The emphasis is the admiral’s.

Pybus’ message follows a letter from Adm. William McRaven that also is critical of the recent publicity. Although McRaven is a Navy SEAL, he oversees all 65,000 Special Operations Forces from all of the military services. Pybus’ message is viewed as much more directed to the SEAL community.

“I am disappointed, embarrassed and concerned,” Pybus wrote. “Most of us have always thought that the privilege of working with some of our nation’s toughest warriors on challenging missions would be enough to be proud of, with no further compensation or celebrity required. Today, we find former SEALs headlining positions in a presidential campaign; hawking details about a mission against Enemy Number 1; and generally selling other aspects of NSW training and operations. For an elite force that should be humble and disciplined for life, we are certainly not appearing to be so. We owe our chain of command much better than this.”
http://fox8.com/2012/09/05/scathing-message-sent-to-seals-on-secret-work/

[FORD]

This all comes from a guy who gives Elvis crap about conspiracy theories and Alex Jones. That sounds alot like what Alex might view as the truth.

FORD do some research on him and his time in Egypt with the Brotherhood and what the Egyptian Government did to him when they caught him, how he got out of prison and how he got to know UBL. Maybe you'll get a better understanding of what he stood for and what shaped him into the self-hating POS he was when he was alive.



Well, Alex Jones did comment on this back in the day, but so did the mainstream corporate whore Chimp asskissing media.....



Military Plays Up Role of Zarqawi
By Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, April 10, 2006

The U.S. military is conducting a propaganda campaign to magnify the role of the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq, according to internal military documents and officers familiar with the program. The effort has raised his profile in a way that some military intelligence officials believe may have overstated his importance and helped the Bush administration tie the war to the organization responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

The documents state that the U.S. campaign aims to turn Iraqis against Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian, by playing on their perceived dislike of foreigners. U.S. authorities claim some success with that effort, noting that some tribal Iraqi insurgents have attacked Zarqawi loyalists.

For the past two years, U.S. military leaders have been using Iraqi media and other outlets in Baghdad to publicize Zarqawi's role in the insurgency. The documents explicitly list the "U.S. Home Audience" as one of the targets of a broader propaganda campaign.

Some senior intelligence officers believe Zarqawi's role may have been overemphasized by the propaganda campaign, which has included leaflets, radio and television broadcasts, Internet postings and at least one leak to an American journalist. Although Zarqawi and other foreign insurgents in Iraq have conducted deadly bombing attacks, they remain "a very small part of the actual numbers," Col. Derek Harvey, who served as a military intelligence officer in Iraq and then was one of the top officers handling Iraq intelligence issues on the staff of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told an Army meeting at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., last summer.

In a transcript of the meeting, Harvey said, "Our own focus on Zarqawi has enlarged his caricature, if you will -- made him more important than he really is, in some ways."

"The long-term threat is not Zarqawi or religious extremists, but these former regime types and their friends," said Harvey, who did not return phone calls seeking comment on his remarks.

More here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/09/AR2006040900890.html)

As for the Egyptian brotherhood thing, I believe you have him confused with Ayman Al-Zawahiri. He's the Egyptian doctor (and Muslim Brotherhood member) who allegedly became the new CEO of Al Qaeda Terrorism Enterprises, LLC after Osama's, er.... "early retirement".

[baru911]

Well, Alex Jones did comment on this back in the day, but so did the mainstream corporate whore Chimp asskissing media.....




More here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/09/AR2006040900890.html)

As for the Egyptian brotherhood thing, I believe you have him confused with Ayman Al-Zawahiri. He's the Egyptian doctor (and Muslim Brotherhood member) who allegedly became the new CEO of Al Qaeda Terrorism Enterprises, LLC after Osama's, er.... "early retirement".

I did...thanks for the correction.

[baru911]

Both small cases whereas the GIGN and GSG9 have stormed entire airliners...

Does the size of the operation in your mind make it the best? The SAS have dealt with an embassy. If so, then I guess the SAS are the best under that thinking or maybe Spetsnaz is the best because of the Moscow Theater. They did kill what around 30 terrorist when they got inside? However, 120+ of the hostages where killed when they stormed the theater. Size of an operation is a strange way to weigh what operational unit is "the best".

[DONNIEP]

Those Red Cell videos kick ass.

[Nickdfresh]

Does the size of the operation in your mind make it the best?

Not necessarily size, but context as well. The Navy SEAL snipers took impressive shots, but they were also dealing with amateurs with virtually no training. The GSG9 flew into an African nation to take out trained terrorists with minimal support...


The SAS have dealt with an embassy. If so, then I guess the SAS are the best under that thinking or maybe Spetsnaz is the best because of the Moscow Theater. They did kill what around 30 terrorist when they got inside? However, 120+ of the hostages where killed when they stormed the theater. Size of an operation is a strange way to weigh what operational unit is "the best".

I never said anything about Spetnaz. The SAS have a long tradition regardless of what one thinks about them, and they essentially invented modern hostage rescue and had the earliest capability....

[baru911]

Really? Is that why the Pentagon is probably going to sue Bissonette? .

The 5 sided building guys are mad at him because he didn't get the book vetted. A large amount of the anger is being directed at him from the fleet.




There's also public consternation among Naval special warfare officers that there is too much getting out on how they train and operate, and there have always been more than enough potential recruits...

When you have a graduation rate of 30 to 35% there is never enough recruits/volunteers. Some classes do not even graduate a single man. The Navy spent millions of dollars trying to identify the perfect candidate. They couldn't do it. The directive from the top has been to get more people into BUDs since the war on terror began. The slots still need to be filled and those slots are opening at a higher rate due to men getting older, maimed, killed, retiring, or getting out for other reasons. It becomes a numbers game. The number of men needed has expanded due to role that the Teams now play in this new form of warfare (I know it really isn't a new form of warfare in number of ways).

All of the above is based on information from conversations with friends. I can't give you a better explanation as I ain't a SEAL.

[motherchicken]

I had a recon team of otters stalking me the other day when I was walking around the lake. Sneaky little bastards....
Let Nick know. His homeland security connection can have them deported.

[FORD]

Isn't it about time that you forget your password again and disappear, Sockfucker?

Since I'm sure you wrote it down on a scrap of paper, be sure to toss it into the wash with your socks.

[baru911]

Not necessarily size, but context as well. The Navy SEAL snipers took impressive shots, but they were also dealing with amateurs with virtually no training. The GSG9 flew into an African nation to take out trained terrorists with minimal support...



I never said anything about Spetnaz. The SAS have a long tradition regardless of what one thinks about them, and they essentially invented modern hostage rescue and had the earliest capability....

Maybe you should have as they are pretty elite and US Operators now cross train with them in our brave new world. The SAS have had some issues. Like the events that took place on Gibraltar in the late 80's. I think the size of the operation really isn't a tell of who is or might be "the best". The type of mission/location/other factors are a better way of determining what group to use and who might be "The Best". This is a really strange thread.

Example:
1) If you want someone to take an airfield? The Rangers
2) Want indigenous peoples/tribes trained in modern warfare and weapons? Army Special Forces
3) Want to take an oil rig? The SEALs
4) Got an A Team out in indian country and want an air strike/fire controll called in because your being engaged by a superior force? Hope that you have a combat controller
5) Got a terrorist situation in Germany? GSG 9
6) Got a terrorist situation in NC? CAG
7) Got a bank robbery and hostage situation in downtown New York City. NYPD's Emergency Services Unit fits the bill.

[hideyoursheep]

.The 5 sided building guys are mad at him because he didn't get the book vetted. .

That's true..then again, so long as he's no longer active, he is under no obligation to do so. The guy's just looking to cash in on being a part of what is arguably the single most imortant event in Bush's GWOT....even though Bush was either too much of a cunt to give ther green light on this, or he never wanted the boogey man to be captured in the first place. I say let him have his bank...fucking turd mercs are making more scratch than he was as a SEAL, and their standards aren't even in the same galaxy as SEALs.

Oh! And he's not ignorant enough to print secret, or top secret shit in that book, otherwise he knows he'd be in serious trouble. He was debriefed and is aware of what can fly, and what will get him locked up in Gitmo. Classified? Give me a break...That's just another term for "It's not that important (on the level of National Security) but keep it to yourself anyway. The world knows UBL got smoked. They know one of their choppers crashed (probably too close to that fucking 10' wall the Paki's built for him and couldnt get enough lift). As long as their names are changed to protect their identities I don't see any problem.

[hideyoursheep]

Maybe you should have as they are pretty elite and US Operators now cross train with them in our brave new world. The SAS have had some issues. Like the events that took place on Gibraltar in the late 80's. I think the size of the operation really isn't a tell of who is or might be "the best". The type of mission/location/other factors are a better way of determining what group to use and who might be "The Best". This is a really strange thread.

Example:
1) If you want someone to take an airfield? The Rangers
2) Want indigenous peoples/tribes trained in modern warfare and weapons? Army Special Forces
3) Want to take an oil rig? The SEALs
4) Got an A Team out in indian country and want an air strike/fire controll called in because your being engaged by a superior force? Hope that you have a combat controller
5) Got a terrorist situation in Germany? GSG 9
6) Got a terrorist situation in NC? CAG
7) Got a bank robbery and hostage situation in downtown New York City. NYPD's Emergency Services Unit fits the bill.

You. Are a fucking idiot.

Operation Praying Mantis ring any bells, merc nut-hugger? Those weren't SEAL's taking those oil rigs, dumbass.

Want to take an airfield? 24th ID and 3rd ID have already done that for you. Twice.

[jhale667]

Oh, snap..... LMAO @ "merc nut-hugger".... :lmao:

[BigBadBrian]

Nope, he's a true Repuke - unconcerned with pesky "facts"... much like his "boys" Wrongney and Eddie Munster.

You can't debate your way out of a wet paper bag despite all the lies you're told to repeat. :biggrin:

[BigBadBrian]

Yeah, Obama just blew the lid off the ultra secret SEAL T6/Devgru!:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_SEALs_in_fiction



Who's the "asshat" BigDumbBrian?

You are, of course. You still haven't proven any point. You're stooping down to the intellectual level of gayhale, which is about 10 levels below the rest of us, even that Swedish wench. :gulp:

[BigBadBrian]

Really? Is that why the Pentagon is probably going to sue Bissonette? Their has always been SEAL news and publicity going back to the early 1980s at least, and they certainly don't need anymore press. I'd say a large number of kids join the Navy thinking one day they might be SEALs even though only a fraction will even get to try out...


Actually, one can enlist with a guaranteed spot in the training program. Still, less than 10% will make it. A guaranteed spot is also offered to other SOC operator programs, I believe.

[BigBadBrian]

That's true..then again, so long as he's no longer active, he is under no obligation to do so.

Actually, he is.

[BigBadBrian]

You. Are a fucking idiot.

Operation Praying Mantis ring any bells, merc nut-hugger? Those weren't SEAL's taking those oil rigs, dumbass.

Want to take an airfield? 24th ID and 3rd ID have already done that for you. Twice.

I don't think he was suggesting those were the only units that could do those particular ops. Chill out, dude. :gulp:

[jhale667]

You can't debate your way out of a wet paper bag despite all the lies you're told to repeat. :biggrin:

You say that as if you CAN, oh ignorant shill for the lowest common denominatior? I can out-debate you drunk, with one lobe of my brain tied behind my back. That's not saying much though -pretty much anyone here can. You're the KING of spewing bullshit Republicunt talking points here.

[Nickdfresh]

.

The 5 sided building guys are mad at him because he didn't get the book vetted. A large amount of the anger is being directed at him from the fleet.

Well he did sign a contract, and like CIA Agents, operators who write about their work experiences can often blow up sources and methods. The book Secret Warriors supposedly helped destroy a vital intelligence network in Iran in the 80's...


When you have a graduation rate of 30 to 35% there is never enough recruits/volunteers. Some classes do not even graduate a single man.

I doubt it's even that high, I also doubt classes never produce SEALs. High attrition rates are expected. That's why they're elite, and that's pretty much the story with any special operations force. Few are geared for those kind of operations day in and out...


The Navy spent millions of dollars trying to identify the perfect candidate. They couldn't do it.

There is no one, "perfect candidate." The Lt. Audie Murphy is a prime example why...


The directive from the top has been to get more people into BUDs since the war on terror began. The slots still need to be filled and those slots are opening at a higher rate due to men getting older, maimed, killed, retiring, or getting out for other reasons. It becomes a numbers game. The number of men needed has expanded due to role that the Teams now play in this new form of warfare (I know it really isn't a new form of warfare in number of ways).

I'm unaware of directives from the top as apparently are you. But even in the War on Terrah, there are so many special ops people needed on the whole, especially since we're out of Iraq...


All of the above is based on information from conversations with friends. I can't give you a better explanation as I ain't a SEAL.

Neither am I, just pay attention...

[Nickdfresh]

Maybe you should have as they are pretty elite and US Operators now cross train with them in our brave new world.

Really? You think?


The SAS have had some issues. Like the events that took place on Gibraltar in the late 80's. I think the size of the operation really isn't a tell of who is or might be "the best". The type of mission/location/other factors are a better way of determining what group to use and who might be "The Best". This is a really strange thread.

All special forces have "issues." Four SEAL's drowned during an unnecessary and retarded drop off Grenada in 1983. The Delta Force suffered (relatively) heavy casualties taking an airport they were not specifically trained, equipped, nor organized to take. A SEAL team had to 'escape and evade' in the same Invasion. All these were side effects of the Pentagon wanting to show off its super ninja, badass superstars, and conduct a reenactment of D-Day, for political reasons when the Island could have just been taken by the Marines...


Example:
1) If you want someone to take an airfield? The Rangers
2) Want indigenous peoples/tribes trained in modern warfare and weapons? Army Special Forces
3) Want to take an oil rig? The SEALs
4) Got an A Team out in indian country and want an air strike/fire controll called in because your being engaged by a superior force? Hope that you have a combat controller
5) Got a terrorist situation in Germany? GSG 9
6) Got a terrorist situation in NC? CAG
7) Got a bank robbery and hostage situation in downtown New York City. NYPD's Emergency Services Unit fits the bill.

It's never that simple and there is overlap. The Army Special Forces are not just "teachers," they're certainly doers as well. CAG/ACE/Delta wouldn't respond to a terror attack in the Carolinas. Most likely it would be the FBI HRT. And the GSG9 proved pretty effective in Africa...

[hideyoursheep]

Delta Force..Oof!

I'd seen 3 guys repeatedly put in for that back in the day..2 were back within 30 days, and another came back about 3 months later on crutches. None of them went at the same time, and were given little notice to report for training. They got their orders and were gone. One of the things to expect if one has the desire to make that career move, I suppose.

I have no idea how the SEAL's go about selecting candidates, but I imagine it's similar.

Unconventional warfare never interested me as a young man. Yet whenever I saw that green beret or the SF combat patch, I showed respect! They most definitely deserve it.

[Seshmeister]