Now that the NFL referrees strike is apparently over, somebody's gotta say this.

[FORD]

In the matter of a few short weeks, Mainstream America has witnessed first hand what happens when unskilled scabs attempt to replace a union.

Think about this next time you hear union bashing bullshit coming from the right wing.

Sad that the irony of all this will probably be lost on the KKKoch funded union hating politicians from Wisconsin like Scott Walker and Eddie Munster, who were among those screaming the loudest to bring the REAL refs back after the Monday night game.

[BigBadBrian]

In the matter of a few short weeks, Mainstream America has witnessed first hand what happens when unskilled scabs attempt to replace a union.

Wisconsin like Scott Walker and Eddie Munster, who were among those screaming the loudest to bring the REAL refs back after the Monday night game.

So what percentage of skilled workers in America belong to a union? Less than 10%, correct?

And the Wisconsin thing...it was unions for govt employees that was at issue, not workers at private or even publicly-traded companies.

[Nickdfresh]

The wider issue is that owners who are greedy old cunts flush with money--and when I say flush, I mean record setting profits--are such ideological Scrooge-cunts that they try to fuck over refs for the pittance of a few million dollars relative to the integrity of the game and profits...

[BigBadBrian]

"Mainstream America has witnessed first hand what happens when unskilled scabs attempt to replace a union."

OK, my bust: as of 2011, it's estimated that 11.8% of the US workforce are members of unions.

FORD, are you saying the 88.2% of workers NOT in a union are sub-par because of lack of union membership?

[FORD]

So what percentage of skilled workers in America belong to a union? Less than 10%, correct?

And the Wisconsin thing...it was unions for govt employees that was at issue, not workers at private or even publicly-traded companies.

And the decrease in the number of unions just happens to run parallel to the decline of goddamn near everything else in this country over the last 30 years.

You think government sucks now? Just imagine how bad it would be if there were a bunch of minimum wage SCABS populating every office.

[BigBadBrian]

The wider issue is that owners who are greedy old cunts flush with money--and when I say flush, I mean record setting profits--are such ideological Scrooge-cunts that they try to fuck over refs for the pittance of a few million dollars relative to the integrity of the game and profits...
'
So how do we "fix" that pesky little problem called capitalism, Nick? Shall we "redistribute" the earnings of these teams? How would that work...afterall, the teams, more specifically the owners, own the league privately.

[hambon4lif]

In the matter of a few short weeks, Mainstream America has witnessed first hand what happens when unskilled scabs attempt to replace a union.

Think about this next time you hear union bashing bullshit coming from the right wing.

Sad that the irony of all this will probably be lost on the KKKoch funded union hating politicians from Wisconsin like Scott Walker and Eddie Munster, who were among those screaming the loudest to bring the REAL refs back after the Monday night game.No matter what those panzies say to manipulate the masses, when a 16 million dollar shift happens in Vegas over one weekend (something that's never happened before), they have to stop and rethink their rhetoric.

Especially Walker and Munster and folks of that ilk. They nuzzle up the nutsacks of the rich and call them 'constituents'. The very last thing they'd want to do is to disturb the moneyflow.

Fuckin' whores!!!

[FORD]

"Mainstream America has witnessed first hand what happens when unskilled scabs attempt to replace a union."

OK, my bust: as of 2011, it's estimated that 11.8% of the US workforce are members of unions.

FORD, are you saying the 88.2% of workers NOT in a union are sub-par because of lack of union membership?

I'm saying if you look at any industry that once was dominated by unions but now is dominated by foreign slave labor, or some other cheap labor scab source, there is a noticeable decline in quality. Just like there was in the recent football games.

I'm saying (along with everything else destroyed in this country over the last 30 years) that this country was much stronger when the majority of people were employed in living wage, union jobs.

[Nickdfresh]

'
So how do we "fix" that pesky little problem called capitalism, Nick? Shall we "redistribute" the earnings of these teams? How would that work...afterall, the teams, more specifically the owners, own the league privately.

What does capitalism have to do with paying your workers their worth? The league already "redistributes" earnings IIRC via the TV contract. Secondly, there is one team that isn't owned "privately," the Green Bay Packers aren't the other owners have forbidden a team from having shareholders again...

[BigBadBrian]

And the decrease in the number of unions just happens to run parallel to the decline of goddamn near everything else in this country over the last 30 years.


Yeah, and over-regulation and the hog-tying of business, particularly small business, didn't play a part, among other things, did it? Union membership has only decreased slightly in the period you specify.

During the peak of union membership, during WWII, only one-third of the US workforce were union members.

[FORD]

'
So how do we "fix" that pesky little problem called capitalism, Nick? Shall we "redistribute" the earnings of these teams? How would that work...afterall, the teams, more specifically the owners, own the league privately.

Well, you have to appreciate the irony that it was a Packers game that called attention to the issue, since they are the obvious exception to the typical greedy NFL team owner.

[BigBadBrian]

the Green Bay Packers aren't the other owners have forbidden a team from having shareholders again...

Actually, the Packers ARE privately owned. They just happen to have more owners than the other teams. The notion that the Packers are owned by the people of Green Bay is nonsense.

[Nickdfresh]

Actually, the Packers ARE privately owned. They just happen to have more owners than the other teams. The notion that the Packers are owned by the people of Green Bay is nonsense.

You're retarded:


The Green Bay Packers are an American football team based in Green Bay, Wisconsin. They are members of the North Division of the National Football Conference (NFC) in the National Football League (NFL). Green Bay is the third-oldest franchise in the NFL, having been organized and playing in 1919.[5] The Packers are the only non-profit, community-owned major league professional sports team in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers

Do you enjoy being my bitch, BBB?

[BigBadBrian]

I'm saying if you look at any industry that once was dominated by unions but now is dominated by foreign slave labor, or some other cheap labor scab source, there is a noticeable decline in quality. Just like there was in the recent football games.

So you admit: it was a matter of training, not union membership.
.

I'm saying (along with everything else destroyed in this country over the last 30 years) that this country was much stronger when the majority of people were employed in living wage, union jobs.

Statistics don't bear that out.

[BigBadBrian]

You're retarded:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers



Wikipedia: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Next thing you'll do is quote al-jazeera on US Foreign policy. :biggrin:

[FORD]

So you admit: it was a matter of training, not union membership.


Union members are better trained.

[BigBadBrian]

Union members are better trained.

:lmao: I think the auto workers in the Toyota plants in TN would have little dispute with that remark. TN is a right-to-work state with union members, particularly in the auto industry, in the minority.

[Nickdfresh]

Wikipedia: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Next thing you'll do is quote al-jazeera on US Foreign policy. :biggrin:

So basically you're full of shit and have no idea what you are talking about....:thumb:

[FORD]

:lmao: I think the auto workers in the Toyota plants in TN would have little dispute with that remark. TN is a right-to-work state with union members, particularly in the auto industry, in the minority.

Given the number of Toyota recalls in the last few years, that's probably not going to help your argument.

[motherchicken]

I've been in a few unions and known some union members. I had a few friends making Camaros and Firebirds in Van Nuys. That plant is a shopping center now. I was in the carpenters union in Cali for many years. They priced thenselves out of work paying entry level laborers 25 bucks an hour. The only thing good about that union is prevailing wage jobs are based on union wages and most government construction contracts call for prevailing wages for any worker on those projects. I was in the sheet metal workers union also. The company I worked for went belly up two years after the union came in. They paid a decent wage with full benefits before the union was voted in. Most of our raises went to paying union dues. Unions might help people who work at shitholes like Walmart but if you've noticed union grocery store chains seem to be disappearing all the time. If the union ever gets into Walmart they'll close those stores and start another chain of non union stores.

[Hardrock69]

So basically you're full of shit and have no idea what you are talking about....:thumb:

You expected something different? :hee:


One nice thing about the refs being back on the job....(and thanks to the internet)..the public backlash was so fast and furious the NFL owners caved and gave the refs everything they wanted. :lmao:

[Hardrock69]

I have been in the Machinists Union at several points in my life. Eventually found out that the union was just another division of upper management, and when people would file grievances, they would always lose. This made me realize the money being taken out of my check for union dues was just being thrown away, as the union fighting for wages/benefit contract provisions is just one aspect of what they are supposed to do. They are also supposed to stand up for the workers when they have a legit beef with the company practices, and the Machinists Union failed many times in that department, in my experience.

[Nickdfresh]

http://nfl.cpl.delvenetworks.com/player/usatoday/carousel/embed_code_420.html?channelId=de89a8aeb3e422bac4eb 48567f10ebd0&channelListId&mediaId=477ae6182a1f474db797b129a50fc12d

[BigBadBrian]

I have been in the Machinists Union at several points in my life. Eventually found out that the union was just another division of upper management, and when people would file grievances, they would always lose. This made me realize the money being taken out of my check for union dues was just being thrown away, as the union fighting for wages/benefit contract provisions is just one aspect of what they are supposed to do. They are also supposed to stand up for the workers when they have a legit beef with the company practices, and the Machinists Union failed many times in that department, in my experience.

Sorry about the trouble you had with your union, but your union dues ARE NOT being thrown away. Some fat cat union official is living very comfortably on them, and some are being donated to political candidates, some of whom you may not even vote for yourself.

My wife has a cousin whose husband works for the freight section of American Airlines. Instead of being scheduled for 1 eight-hour shift, he is scheduled for a four-hour shift, gets an hour break, and then is scheduled for another four-hour shift...where both four-hour shifts are considered part-time and payable at a lower wage with no benefits for that period. Is that right? Hell no it isn't. Unions were originally created to protect workers from this shit. What did his union say? Basically "Shut the Fuck Up and deal with it." They had hundreds of campaign posters for some political candidate they were getting ready to distribute at the time and couldn't be bothered with a "petty grievance." Their words.

Neither Unions or companies should be allowed to make political donations. Period. End of story. They can't donate in other people's names, either.

Individual political donations should have a $1000 annual limit. Once a person donates a total of $1000 on 1 or more candidates, they are done donating for the calendar year. None of this horseshit of being able to donate vast sums to multiple candidates. $1000 total PERIOD.

[ZahZoo]

I've seen both the good and the no good side of unions... today it's difficult to say it's worth having them at all, but doing away with them comes with just as many down-sides. How do you strike a balance..?

With unions wages and benefits tend to be good... but then the risk of running yourself completely out of business is extremely high due to competitiveness. Also seems to remove a lot of performance motivation within the labor force.

Non-union businesses perform better on a cost competitive basis... but worker wages and benefits suffer. But then motivation for performance within the labor force is much higher fighting for the crumbs of advancement companies offer.

Somewhere there's a middle balance... I'll be damned if I could come up with a solution though.