Romney's Latest Bold-Face Lie

[Va Beach VH Fan]

[VAiN]

Wow, a politician exaggerating something. This is unique.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

That's no exaggeration....

[MUSICMANN]

Who to believe? I guess it's which side of the fence you are on. I guess the very first paragraph says it all.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-21/fiat-says-china-may-build-all-jeep-models-as-suv-demand-climbs.html




I could go on and on. Romney was telling the truth i believe. In the original Bloomberg article, Fiat specifically said what Romney said. It wasn't until Romney said it, that Chrysler Obama backing Union bosses had to reject their original statement and change their own story.

[ELVIS]

Romney was telling the truth i believe.

No he wasn't...

He was trying to make Obama look bad by stretching the truth of a non-issue...

And Obama does the same thing all ther time, but on a scale that makes Bill Clinton look like an amature...

[BigBadBrian]

Ed Schultz isn't exactly a legitimate journalist. Try again.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Ed Schultz isn't exactly a legitimate journalist. Try again.

The fact that Ed Schultz reported the story is irrelevant, I could've posted links from 20 other non-MSNBC outlets.....

[ELVIS]

Source strictly matters around this perverted forum...

[Va Beach VH Fan]

[FORD]

I just have to believe that somewhere on Kolob, George Romney is very sad about what has become of his son. Especially when it comes to his lame assed comments about the auto industry.

[BigBadBrian]

Moving To China

LINK (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-21/fiat-says-china-may-build-all-jeep-models-as-suv-demand-climbs.html)
Fiat Says Jeep Output May Return to China as Demand Rises
By Craig Trudell - Oct 22, 2012 11:10 AM ET
SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region.
Fiat is in “very detailed conversations” with its Chinese partner, Guangzhou Automobile Group Co. (2238), about making Jeeps in the world’s largest auto market, said Mike Manley, chief operating officer of Fiat and Chrysler in Asia. Chrysler hasn’t built Jeeps there since before Fiat took control in 2009.
Enlarge image
The bodies of 2012 Jeep Compass and 2012 Jeep Patriot sports utility vechicles (SUV) move along the assembly line at the Chrysler Group LLC assembly plant in Belvidere, Illinois. Photographer: Daniel Acker/Bloomberg
“The volume opportunity for us is very significant,” Manley, who is also president of the Jeep brand, said in an interview at Chrysler’s Auburn Hills, Michigan, headquarters. “We’re reviewing the opportunities within existing capacity” as well as “should we be localizing the entire Jeep portfolio or some of the Jeep portfolio.”
Chrysler, which entered an alliance with Turin, Italy-based Fiat as part of its U.S. government-backed bankruptcy, is relying on growth in China to counter weakness in Europe’s auto market. The automaker is targeting 500,000 annual sales outside North America by 2014, more than triple its overseas deliveries in 2009.
Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China.
Asia’s Strength
International sales for Chrysler climbed 22 percent to 153,154 this year through September, according to the company. The Jeep brand accounted for more than three of every four of those deliveries, with sales surging 54 percent to 117,189.
“We’ve grown much stronger in Asia to make up or compensate for some of the difficulties in Europe,” Manley said. Europe will be in “very difficult, tough times” through at least 2013, he said.
Boosted by strong demand for the Grand Cherokee and Compass sport-utility vehicles, Jeep sales in China have more than doubled to 33,463 this year through September. The brand topped total deliveries for all of 2011 by July of this year.
Chrysler’s 2014 international sales target is “certainly within reach,” Manley said. The European auto market is on track to plunge in 2012 by the most in 19 years, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association.
“Given what we see around the world, it is stretching for sure, but it’s not something we’ve given up on,” he said.
Fiat and Guangzhou’s plant in Changsha in central China has initial annual capacity of 140,000 cars and is capable of eventually assembling 500,000 vehicles per year. The automakers will add production of a new vehicle to the factory roughly every 12 months and began building the Fiat Viaggio compact there in June.

To contact the reporters on this story: Craig Trudell in Southfield, Michigan, at ctrudell1@bloomberg.net.
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Jamie Butters at jbutters@bloomberg.net

[BigBadBrian]

Moving to Italy
LINK (http://nlpc.org/cached/fiat-says-chrysler-jeep-production-may-move-italy.html?q=stories/2012/10/29/fiat-says-chrysler-jeep-production-may-move-italy)
AUTO BAILOUT BOMBSHELL: Fiat Says Chrysler, Jeep Production May Move to Italy
Submitted by Mark Modica on Tue, 10/29/2012 - 10:53
Coming hot on the heels of speculation that some Jeep production may be moved to China comes a bombshell from a Bloomberg report. Fiat is now considering moving Chrysler and Jeep production to Italy.

According to the piece, "To counter the severe slump in European sales, (Fiat CEO Sergio) Marchionne is considering building Chrysler models in Italy, including Jeeps, for export to North America. The Italian government is evaluating tax rebates on export goods to help Fiat. Marchionne may announce details of his plan as soon as Oct. 30, the people said."

So, let's be real clear here, we are talking about vehicles that will be built in Italy and exported to America. The evidence is clear that Fiat is looking at ways to move production of vehicles from the US to elsewhere, whether it be China or Italy, costing American jobs. This is becoming indisputable, despite outcries from certain parties to the contrary.

Mitt Romney has rightfully criticized the Obama Administration for handing over Chrysler to the Italians and now leaving the fate of American workers in the hands of Fiat management. Fiat is not a healthy company and the auto industry is in as great a risk as ever. The insistence that all is well by those with political motivations does not mask the danger. More jobs are at risk of being lost and more taxpayer money may be lost as well.

Let's face it, the auto bailouts were not well thought out. Perhaps General Motors' CEO, Dan Akerson, said it best when he said, "The good thing about our bankruptcy is that it took only 39 days. The bad news is that bankruptcy took only 39 days. If we had been there longer, people would have asked these questions and looked at these things."

The whole auto industry bailout process was rushed through with the wrong primary motivation of protecting the politically powerful UAW's interests. The Obama Administration never considered that giving Chrysler to Fiat was not a great idea and could eventually hurt the same UAW workers it was trying to protect. Manufacturers like Chrysler and GM are at a competitive disadvantage due to UAW obligations that were not properly addressed in the bankruptcy process. The industry is more competitive than ever and the government does not seem to be the best innovators to lead the sector to real health. This truth is very likely to become more apparent when the political season ends.

Mark Modica is an NLPC Associate Fellow.

[BigBadBrian]

Moving to Italy or China, American workers are getting screwed courtesy of Barack Hussein Obama and his wonderful bail-outs.

[twonabomber]

They're not moving Jeep production out of Toledo. Jeep is hiring at least another shift of workers, can't find the exact number now. Fiat is putting a lot of money in the plant, too. Hardly a smart move if the plan is going to be idled.

This simply says that all Jeep models will be built in China, for sale in China and not for export. In the past all they built/sold there was a version of the old Cherokee and a Wrangler-type vehicle. I read an article that said the last generation Grand Cherokee dies were sent to China and that model was going to be built there too.

[jacksmar]

It's no lie. It's a fact.
http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2012/1/27/Jeep-Made-In-China-7707029/

But what everyone is missing on this issue is very simple: This is a 1% issue. In more ways than one.

Oil is tied to Ubama's GM and Chrysler bailout.

Romney was correct about the bankruptcy. A point that never gets any attention is that Ford had already mortgaged its assets in 2006 to raise $24.5 billion. Remember Ford stock prices dropping?

No one talks about the failure on the part of GM and Chrysler. Back in 2006 , a union member made $70 per hour and a new hire made $26 per hour. What got bailed out? Union salaries and comps. Who got saved? GM. Fiat bought Chrysler.

The taxpayers are still on the hook for the US Treasury loans.

The 1%'ers are part of an old relationship between car manufacturing and "big oil".

The U.S. auto industry is it's own worst enemy in that it's frozen in time and will never keep up with corporate evolution.

[twonabomber]

from the Toledo Blade:

Company says it will not move production out of North America
BLADE STAFF

Chrysler is strongly denying a report the company was considering moving all of its Jeep production to China.

The company has not been shy about wanting to build Jeeps in China, but Chrysler says it won’t quit building them in the United States.

“Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China,” Gualberto Ranieri, the company’s senior vice president for corporate communications, wrote Thursday in a blog posted on Chrysler’s Web site.

“It is simply reviewing the opportunities to return Jeep output to China for the world’s largest auto market.”

Bloomberg reported earlier this week that Fiat SpA, the majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, was in talks with its Chinese partner, Guangzhou Automobile Group Co., about making Jeeps in China. Jeeps were built in China from 1983-2009.

Bloomberg quoted Mike Manley, who is president and CEO of the Jeep brand as well as the chief operating officer of Fiat and Chrysler in Asia.

“The volume opportunity for us [in China] is very significant,” Mr. Manley was quoted as saying.

“We’re reviewing the opportunities within existing capacity” as well as “should we be localizing the entire Jeep portfolio or some of the Jeep portfolio.”

Mr. Ranieri said in his blog that some people misinterpreted the Bloomberg story.

“Despite clear and accurate reporting, the take has given birth to a number of stories making readers believe that Chrysler plans to shift all Jeep production to China from North America ... . It is a leap that would be difficult even for circus acrobats.”

The Washington Examiner, a conservative newspaper distributed in the D.C. area, was among the media that picked up on the Bloomberg report.

“In another potential blow for the President’s Ohio re-election campaign, Jeep, the rugged brand President Obama once said symbolized American freedom, is considering giving up on the United States and shifting production to China,” the Examiner wrote.

“Such a move would crash the economy in towns like Toledo, Ohio, where Jeeps are made and supplied, and rob the community of the economic security they thought Obama’s auto bailout assured them.”

Chrysler last year announced a $500 million investment to expand and modernize part of the Toledo Assembly Complex.

The planned expansion will add about 1,100 jobs, putting total plant employment at about 3,000.

The Toledo plant builds the Jeep Wrangler and, starting next year, will build an as-yet-unnamed vehicle that will replace the Liberty in Jeep’s lineup.

International sales for Chrysler climbed 22 percent to 153,154 this year through September, according to the company.

The Jeep brand accounted for more than three-quarters of those deliveries.

Jeep sold 22,294 vehicles in China last year, an 81 percent increase over 2010.

[Kristy]

Ed Schultz isn't exactly a legitimate journalist. Try again.

At least he originally writes what he says. Most of the time.

[Nickdfresh]

Moving To China

LINK (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-21/fiat-says-china-may-build-all-jeep-models-as-suv-demand-climbs.html)
Fiat Says Jeep Output May Return to China as Demand Rises
By Craig Trudell - Oct 22, 2012 11:10 AM ET
SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region.
Fiat is in “very detailed conversations” with its Chinese partner, Guangzhou Automobile Group Co. (2238), about making Jeeps in the world’s largest auto market, said Mike Manley, chief operating officer of Fiat and Chrysler in Asia. Chrysler hasn’t built Jeeps there since before Fiat took control in 2009.
Enlarge image
The bodies of 2012 Jeep Compass and 2012 Jeep Patriot sports utility vechicles (SUV) move along the assembly line at the Chrysler Group LLC assembly plant in Belvidere, Illinois. Photographer: Daniel Acker/Bloomberg
“The volume opportunity for us is very significant,” Manley, who is also president of the Jeep brand, said in an interview at Chrysler’s Auburn Hills, Michigan, headquarters. “We’re reviewing the opportunities within existing capacity” as well as “should we be localizing the entire Jeep portfolio or some of the Jeep portfolio.”
Chrysler, which entered an alliance with Turin, Italy-based Fiat as part of its U.S. government-backed bankruptcy, is relying on growth in China to counter weakness in Europe’s auto market. The automaker is targeting 500,000 annual sales outside North America by 2014, more than triple its overseas deliveries in 2009.
Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China.
Asia’s Strength
International sales for Chrysler climbed 22 percent to 153,154 this year through September, according to the company. The Jeep brand accounted for more than three of every four of those deliveries, with sales surging 54 percent to 117,189.
“We’ve grown much stronger in Asia to make up or compensate for some of the difficulties in Europe,” Manley said. Europe will be in “very difficult, tough times” through at least 2013, he said.
Boosted by strong demand for the Grand Cherokee and Compass sport-utility vehicles, Jeep sales in China have more than doubled to 33,463 this year through September. The brand topped total deliveries for all of 2011 by July of this year.
Chrysler’s 2014 international sales target is “certainly within reach,” Manley said. The European auto market is on track to plunge in 2012 by the most in 19 years, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association.
“Given what we see around the world, it is stretching for sure, but it’s not something we’ve given up on,” he said.
Fiat and Guangzhou’s plant in Changsha in central China has initial annual capacity of 140,000 cars and is capable of eventually assembling 500,000 vehicles per year. The automakers will add production of a new vehicle to the factory roughly every 12 months and began building the Fiat Viaggio compact there in June.

To contact the reporters on this story: Craig Trudell in Southfield, Michigan, at ctrudell1@bloomberg.net.
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Jamie Butters at jbutters@bloomberg.net

So basically they're selling so many Jeeps in the Far East that they have to set up production there? Awesome...

[Kristy]

The U.S. auto industry is it's own worst enemy in that it's frozen in time and will never keep up with corporate evolution.

Detroit still seems to be stuck in its muscle car heyday of the late 1960s-early 70's even when the consumer culture was changing to imports and more economic vehicles which where largely Japanese. This is because the Japanese listened to the American consumer and built them a car that was dependable, economical and cheap to own in terms of maintainence. Even some 40 years later Detroit still hasn't gotten the picture and only now are starting to change but it is one S-L-O-W process.

I'm not sure what the import to Detroit ratio is in terms of car sales but my guess is that it's slightly higher. This is due to the culture changing once again. People still long for cars that are dependable, etc but want them to be "cute" as well. Wonder why Volkswagon is selling so much of their crap? It's not that the engineering is better (their engines are for the most part made in India) but because they know how to market to hipsters, low-income families and in tremendous debt college grads. Ford, GM cater to rednecks and yuppies without a clue as to how their targeted demographic thinks. That whole RAM Cummings diesel power turbo whatever sounds more like a lame sex toy than a god damn truck. Hey, I'm sure that was wonderful back in the 70's but it's 2012. No one in their right mind is going to buy one for personal use if gas prices continue to rise.

I myself drive a 2004 Mercedes (pile of crap) but I'd still take it over anything Detroit kicks out today. I would never buy an American car that has been made in the past 20 years - eh, make that 40 years. This is not due to me thinking most imports are better but because Detroit is still living in 1972-ish.

[Nickdfresh]

Moving to Italy or China, American workers are getting screwed courtesy of Barack Hussein Obama and his wonderful bail-outs.


Yeah, those poor dumb saps could have been unemployed and working at Wal-Mart if it weren't for that bastard Obama! Obama, YOU BASTARD! :)

Remember Brie, "freedom is slavery"...

[Kristy]

Moving to Italy or China, American workers are getting screwed courtesy of Barack Hussein Obama and his wonderful bail-outs.

If only you paid attention in class.

[jacksmar]

"I myself drive a 2004 Mercedes"

I'll bet your 2004 Mercedes is a lot nicer than you let on.

AWD? E Class?

[ELVIS]

At least he originally writes what he says. Most of the time.

Says who, you ??

[twonabomber]

So basically they're selling so many Jeeps in the Far East that they have to set up production there? Awesome...

I think it's cheaper to build them there due to the tariffs on cars built outside of China and brought into the country. Could be wrong though.

[FORD]

I think it's cheaper to build them there due to the tariffs on cars built outside of China and brought into the country. Could be wrong though.

Yep that's the reason. China actually is smart enough NOT to let their markets be flooded with foreign made products. And that's far more ironic than rain on anybody's wedding day, or flies in the Chardonnay, or any of that shit that whiny ex kid show TV star Canadians might sing about.

[Nickdfresh]

I think it's cheaper to build them there due to the tariffs on cars built outside of China and brought into the country. Could be wrong though.

You're correct, GM has been building cars there for years for that reason...

[Nickdfresh]

Buick is one of the hottest cars in China, and I think at least some of the models are different than here. Of course, no one complains that the Buick Regal is basically an Opel. Or that Ford has simply brought their long renowned Euro lineup of small cars over to the U.S. like the Fiesta, Focus, and the new Fusion (which is now the same as the legendary Mondeo) instead of making shitty equivalents like the Tempo (drove one in the Army, God that was awful :019: --it was great in the snow though)...

[Hardrock69]

Saw this on ABC Evening News wif Plastic Diane this evening......the Republicans are running an ad where they claim Obama and the automakers are going to ship jobs at the Jeep factory to China.....and get this.....it is a repeat of an already debunked lie! :hee:

The auto manufacturers are pissed off like 10 motherfuckers, and the UAW has seen a massive surge in a single question from their membership: "Is what the ad says true?"

The Big 3 angrily denied that any plans are afoot to do that, and even I must admit they are not THAT stupid......and the UAW is angry because their membership are worried about their job stability (naturally).

In the meantime I find it both hilarious and disgusting that this has happened.

It is one thing to use negative press to slam your opponent in the POTUS campaign.......but in times like these the public at large does not need to hear any news that might make them think their jobs are endangered (unless it is true, but the Big 3 say no, so.........but I digress).

Mitten's Moron's (those who work FOR him, and those who are FUNDING him) have once again, shot themselves in the foot.

Remember when I said you could not write a movie like this if you tried?

Christ.......

Ugh...just had a TV ad on one of the local stations (am watching the 6 o'clock News at 9:15 PM) slamming the unions, painting them as corporatations' evil henchmen, and trying to tie them to Obama.....local ad, that is....but just as stupid as any other pronouncements from Republican fools.....

So....back to the subject at hand.....I lost track of what number this event is in the Republican Self-Defeat 2012 schedule is.....I mean in some other previous thread I listed what, half a dozen things or more that they had done in the last few months to ensure the Republicans lose.....and now this.

The Retardlicans just lost a lot of votes from auto workers and their families.....


Here we go:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/30/mitt-romney-jeep-ad_n_2044465.html


WASHINGTON -- Unbowed by a barrage of criticism and fact checks over its ad insinuating that Chrysler is moving Jeep production to China, the Mitt Romney campaign has released a new radio ad making the same debunked claim.

The ad, which was flagged by a Democratic source, is running in Ohio's Toledo and Dayton markets. The Romney campaign has spent a total of $224,000 in both markets this week.

The script is as follows:


Barack Obama says he saved the auto industry. But for who? Ohio or China?

Under President Obama, GM cut 15,000 American jobs, but they are planning to double the number of cars built in China, which means 15,000 more jobs for China. And now comes word that Chrysler plans to start making Jeeps in, you guessed it, China.

What happened to the promises made to autoworkers in Toledo and throughout Ohio? The same hard-working men and women who were told that Obama’s auto bailout would help them?

Mitt Romney grew up in the Auto Industry. Maybe that’s why the Detroit News endorsed him, saying, ‘Romney understands the industry and will shield it from regulators who never tire of churning out new layers of mandates.

Mitt Romney – he’ll stand up for the auto industry. In Ohio, not China.


A fair reading of the script suggests that the new attack is even more misleading than the ad that the Romney campaign has already aired. Chrysler is thinking of building cars in China, but only for purposes of expanding into the market there. The company's CEO has vehemently denied that any American jobs are being outsourced.

The Romney campaign has repeatedly declined to defend the ad on the record. On background, aides have noted slight technicalities in the language in order to argue that nothing in the ad is factually incorrect. But in essence, the campaign is playing off the fears of voters to try to win a crucial state.




This is just one more demonstration of how Mittens is so desperate he has to resort to fear-mongering on an epic scale.......

"O NOES! VOTES FO' ROMNEY OR DE SKY IS FALLING DE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!"

Why not just go all out and claim that Obama is a genetic creation of Nazi scientists who is bent on making Satanism a national religion with yearly National Sacrificial Celebrations across the country where babies or thrown into fires, dogs and kitties have their brains bashed out on rocks, or vice-versa....all in the name of Satan....

Oh....wait...the Republican voters and political action committees are already doing that.

Oh well.


There have been several plateaus reached by the Republican Party in the 2012 elections........heights of stupidity never imagined....yet only dreamed of.....the HIGHEST stupidity!!!!!

And each time I think I have seen more stupidity defecated unto the Republican voters, Romney and his Kast of Klowns have shockingly been able to supersede the previous record-breaking level of idiocy.....taking their foolishness to new and unprecedented levels of crazy.

What next?

Next thing you know, there will be a leak of a gay sex-tape showing Mittens and Paul with a table full of hundred dollar bills, reefer, blow, and pills.....and you know....even if such a thing actually occurred....the Romney campaign would not care, as they are counting on the ignorance of the Republican Voters........they obviously think their constituency is SO FUCKING IGNORANT that they can do or say just about anything, and the unwashed masses will still droolingly vote for them.....

Wow.

2012.....

"May you live in interesting times...."

[Nickdfresh]

Um, don't we already have a thread on this?

[Hardrock69]

Not that I could see....though Jacksmar posted some stuff about some OTHER campaign ads.....

[Satan]

Mittens is trying to keep the mediawhores from talking about the business that IS going to China - the one HE owns!!

http://bainport.com/

[Hardrock69]

You know, come to think of it Nick, the common subject IS Romney Campaign Lies In Toledo.....so if you wanna move this thread into that one, it would make sense to me.....or not....whatever you think best......

Yes Satan. Anything to deflect attention from what he is really doing.

[MUSICMANN]

Mittens is trying to keep the mediawhores from talking about the business that IS going to China - the one HE owns!!

http://bainport.com/

How stupid are these people. Sensata Technologies, were acquired from Texas Instruments in 2006 for approximately $3 billion and Romney was long gone from Bain at that time. Just because he was part founder of Bain Capital doesn't mean he should be held accountable for anything that happened once he was gone. This is typical democrat bull shit. Those people need to be protesting to those that run that company, not Romney.

[Satan]

Romney is to Bain as Cheney is to Halliburton.

He may not occupy the corner office on the top floor of the building anymore, but he still owns a shit load of stock in the company and makes money off of everything they do, stabbing Americans in the back.

[DONNIEP]

Romney is to Bain as Cheney is to Halliburton.

He may not occupy the corner office on the top floor of the building anymore, but he still owns a shit load of stock in the company and makes money off of everything they do, stabbing Americans in the back.

But is he a member of the Bilderberg Group? That's the real question :biggrin:

[Satan]

But is he a member of the Bilderberg Group? That's the real question :biggrin:

Apparently so.... http://rt.com/usa/news/mitt-romney-bilderberg-conference-184/

[DONNIEP]

Apparently so.... http://rt.com/usa/news/mitt-romney-bilderberg-conference-184/

I shoulda known :doh:

[MUSICMANN]

Apparently so.... http://rt.com/usa/news/mitt-romney-bilderberg-conference-184/

Did you actually read the article. The Liberal Almighty God Obama was said to have been invited and went to the same meeting in 2008, even though his people denied he ever went. This is a non issue. You Liberals are probably having a panic attack every hr. on the hr. with every poll showing a clear Romney win next week. Your boy screwed the pooch for the last 4 yrs. and now the majority of Americans have woken up out of that trance.

[DONNIEP]

Do I get to be liberal now too? :biggrin:

[MUSICMANN]

Do I get to be liberal now too? :biggrin:

Here's a good piece on how Obama and his rushed auto bailout has hurt more retiree's than helped them.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/31/auto-industry-touted-by-obama-still-rubs-some-industry-retirees-wrong-way/?test=latestnews

[Hardrock69]

Question: Does it help the retirees more or less when the auto companies go completely out of business?

[Satan]

......with every poll showing a clear Romney win next week.

Yeah right. And I'm the first chair harp player in Heaven's symphony orchestra http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d025.gif

[MUSICMANN]

Question: Does it help the retirees more or less when the auto companies go completely out of business?

The reason why these retirees are in the predicament was because of the rushed money given to them for the bailout, which in turn was a hasty and rushed Bankruptcy. Romney has said over and over, that a normal Bankruptcy that goes through the process of restructuring GM and Chrysler would have saved around 90 billion tax payer dollars. Even in one of the debates he said we could have hired 200k more teachers with that money.

[MUSICMANN]

Yeah right. And I'm the first chair harp player in Heaven's symphony orchestra http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d025.gif

Every poll showing a tie or even Romney up. More people trust Romeny with the economy and more trust Romney with fixing political grid-lock.

http://news.yahoo.com/fix-political-gridlock-poll-favors-romney-203606816--election.html

[bueno bob]

Every poll showing a tie or even Romney up. More people trust Romeny with the economy and more trust Romney with fixing political grid-lock.

http://news.yahoo.com/fix-political-gridlock-poll-favors-romney-203606816--election.html

I remember lots of polls saying McCain and Palin were going to slide into the White House pretty easily, too...

We'll know soon enough, I think.

[DONNIEP]

I remember lots of polls saying McCain and Palin were going to slide into the White House pretty easily, too...

We'll know soon enough, I think.

But McCain didn't get the nod from the Bilderberg Group :biggrin:

[Satan]

But McCain didn't get the nod from the Bilderberg Group :biggrin:

And he didn't have billion dollar Shittizens United slander campaigns working for him either. Nor did he own his own electro-fraud machine company or corporate radio network (Clear Channel) like Mittens does.

[DONNIEP]

And he didn't have billion dollar Shittizens United slander campaigns working for him either. Nor did he own his own electro-fraud machine company or corporate radio network (Clear Channel) like Mittens does.

No, really? You mean the Presidential elections can actually be rigged?? :doh:

[Satan]

Well.... after Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004 (or the Iowa caucus in early 2004, for that matter) I thought that was common knowledge by now? http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/g010.gif

[DONNIEP]

Well.... after Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004 (or the Iowa caucus in early 2004, for that matter) I thought that was common knowledge by now? http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/g010.gif

Well, since I'm apparently a newly minted liberal, I didn't know these things.

[Hardrock69]

The reason why these retirees are in the predicament was because of the rushed money given to them for the bailout, which in turn was a hasty and rushed Bankruptcy. Romney has said over and over, that a normal Bankruptcy that goes through the process of restructuring GM and Chrysler would have saved around 90 billion tax payer dollars. Even in one of the debates he said we could have hired 200k more teachers with that money.

Well, if you want to believe Massuh Mittens, then that is your prerogative.

Sure, there may have been a cheaper or more efficient alternative to large bailouts.....but then, when it comes down to it, there are only some of the greatest financial wizards involved in planning for such things..........or not.....

But wishing upon a star is at least more accurate or truthful than anything Mittens has had to say during his entire campaign.

At lease when wishing upon a star, you know it is just a wish....

When you are wishing upon a Romney, you are hoping an incompetent gets elected.....

[LoungeMachine]

Every poll showing a tie or even Romney up.

Utter bullshit.

You must be anal retarded.

:gulp:

And national polls don't mean shit with our form of government and elections, moron.

Otherwise GORE would have been elected in 2000 [which he actually was]

See if Yahoo can school you on the Electoral College

[Satan]

They also don't mean shit when pollsters call only landlines, during the day time when the only people who are home are old folks who don't have caller ID, or unemployed people who DO have caller ID, and avoid answering any calls from numbers they don't recognize, because it's probably a collection vampire.


Not a very good sampling model at all. But that's not what the pollsters and the media whores want. They want to artificially keep the "horse race" going until the very end, because they're making money from it.

[LoungeMachine]

Well it would explain why ELVIS has been over-sampled

:gulp:

[Satan]

Does he have a landline at his place?

http://wildcabbage.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/image-thumb11.png

Where would it be plugged in? http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d025.gif

[Hardrock69]

The thing is, regardless of what the daily sample is in the polls, it has no overall bearing on reality.

Hey, didja hear that General Zod is now ahead of Mitt Romney?

75% of respondents polled (in this case, 3 out of 4 people at ComiCon) said they would rather have General Zod as president than Mitt Romney.

:lmao:

[Satan]

Maybe Zod can trap Mittens in one of those one dimensional space prison bubble thingys. Just tell Mittens it's a spaceship that can reach Kolob and he'll probably go voluntarily.

[Hardrock69]

LMAO!!!

:lmao:

[BigBadBrian]

Yeah, those poor dumb saps could have been unemployed and working at Wal-Mart if it weren't for that bastard Obama! Obama, YOU BASTARD! :)
Remember Brie, "freedom is slavery"...


If only you paid attention in class.

Reading a little economic theory wouldn't hurt either of you two, NicktheDick and Krusty. The problem with the bailout, as opposed to a structured resettlement (including a change in management), is that the same mistakes that were committed to get Chrysler in that mess in the first place will be committed again. Their dealerships are laying off people left and right...not a good sign. Chrysler is on the way out.

[ELVIS]

Chrysler is on the way out.

You're an idiot...

Chrysler profits are up 80% because they're producing nice vehicles that people want...

Fiat is currently working to expand Alfa Romeo, Maserati and Jeep on the world market...

Jeep especially is in high demand...

[MUSICMANN]

Utter bullshit.

You must be anal retarded.

:gulp:

And national polls don't mean shit with our form of government and elections, moron.

Otherwise GORE would have been elected in 2000 [which he actually was]

See if Yahoo can school you on the Electoral College


So when the polls show Obama in a landslide, they are accurate and correct, right. I also know the electoral collage as well. It has most of the swing states moving toward Romney including Ohio.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Jeep threads merged....

[Von Halen]

I myself drive a 2004 Mercedes (pile of crap) but I'd still take it over anything Detroit kicks out today. I would never buy an American car that has been made in the past 20 years - eh, make that 40 years. This is not due to me thinking most imports are better but because Detroit is still living in 1972-ish.


Your 2004 Mercedes was a combined engineering effort of Daimler Chrysler. Mercedes bled the fuck out of Chrysler, sent most of the profits back to Germany, and then nearly let them go out of business. Thankfully Fiat stepped up and righted the ship. The Chrysler World HQ went from a virtual city inside a building, to a ghost town, almost overnight, thanks in a big part, to Mercedes.

Our current Government has allowed a whole bunch of automotive dies and stamping presses to be shipped over to China during this term. The majority of those are not still owned by the American Automotive companies. I believe, the Chinese will soon (I don't know how soon) be shipping cheap cars back to the U.S.

As far as the Jeep production over there, I believe the intention is to build them for the purpose of selling them only over there. Will that ultimately be the case? If it is, how does this benefit the UAW and its members? What if the Chinese start sending their Jeeps to Countries we are currently supplying them to, and doing it for a lot less? What about our military Jeeps? Will our Government continue to pay the UAW outrageous amounts to build their vehicles, when they can have them built in China for a lot less? I don't know the answers to these questions, or if they are even valid concerns, but I can tell you as I live in the Detroit area, there are concerns with the Chinese ramping up to build full scale automotive plants. Will the Chinese engineer vehicles? I believe they will. This will cause major issues to the American automotive market. It takes a lot more engineers to design a vehicle, than it does factory workers to build it.

Generic Motors still hasn't paid back it's bailout "loans". They still continue to spend and waste extreme amounts of money on things that have no bearing on the building, or quality, of their vehicles. Not to mention, their cars are lame, unimaginative, and poor quality. GM is a very arrogant company. Our Government should have never bailed them out. Our Government didn't hold GM accountable for what got them in trouble in the first place. That's why they are still struggling.

If the UAW employees spent as much time working, as they do trying to figure out how to get out of work, they'd never have to worry about anything. The attitudes inside those plants is obscene. Ungrateful and entitled are two words that come to mind everytime I step foot in one of those plants.

[Nickdfresh]

Reading a little economic theory wouldn't hurt either of you two, NicktheDick and Krusty.

Which economic theory to you read, BigGayBrian?


The problem with the bailout, as opposed to a structured resettlement (including a change in management), is that the same mistakes that were committed to get Chrysler in that mess in the first place will be committed again. Their dealerships are laying off people left and right...not a good sign. Chrysler is on the way out.

Um, really? And is this more unsubstantiated bullshit you post on the web? Because you seem to be doing just that lately. Chrysler being owned by Fiat is much better than Chrysler being owned by Daimler-Benz. Read about that, shitforbrains. Read Elvis' post for actual facts...

[Nickdfresh]

So when the polls show Obama in a landslide, they are accurate and correct, right. I also know the electoral collage as well. It has most of the swing states moving toward Romney including Ohio.

Um, they mostly show Obama narrowly leading, and completely owning the Electoral College. And yes, there is a difference between polls, I think Pew Research actually admitted that their poll showing Romney with a solid lead was mostly comprised of Republican respondents...

[Nickdfresh]

...

Generic Motors still hasn't paid back it's bailout "loans"...

No, they did in fact pay back their loans, with interest...


...They still continue to spend and waste extreme amounts of money on things that have no bearing on the building, or quality, of their vehicles. Not to mention, their cars are lame, unimaginative, and poor quality. GM is a very arrogant company. Our Government should have never bailed them out. Our Government didn't hold GM accountable for what got them in trouble in the first place. That's why they are still struggling.
....

I prefer Ford, but um, GM has made great strides and I'd probably buy one of their newer offerings like the Sonic or the Cruze over an overpriced Corolla (washing machine with wheels) or Civic that Honda nearly aborted by cheapening them out in the 2011 model year, then having to go back to remake the car in 2012.

[Nickdfresh]

I was watching Romney speak on CNN, and it is almost physically painful at how uncharismatic and douchy he is with his meaningless drivel about how holding an American flag made his arm electrified. I wonder if that flag was made in China? I'm not saying that Obama is Mr. Sunshine or anything, but Jesus...

[bueno bob]

You must be anal retarded.

Well, now that I've got the milk and cereal off of my laptop screen, I can thank you for revisiting that for me.

[Von Halen]

No, they did in fact pay back their loans, with interest...


Wrong.

"New" GM paid back their loans. "Old" GM still owes $850 million, which will never be paid.

GMAC is still mostly owned by the Government. They still have billions of dollars on the ledger. Billions that will never get recovered, unless it goes into the pockets of those that didn't actually earn it.

GM has not paid back all of the money, nor will they ever. They got a handout, that we paid for. And the Unions came out smelling like a rose.

[Nickdfresh]

Wrong.

"New" GM paid back their loans. "Old" GM still owes $850 million, which will never be paid.

GMAC is still mostly owned by the Government. They still have billions of dollars on the ledger. Billions that will never get recovered, unless it goes into the pockets of those that didn't actually earn it.

GM has not paid back all of the money, nor will they ever. They got a handout, that we paid for. And the Unions came out smelling like a rose.

GMAC is now Ally Financial, and their problems do not stem from auto financing but from subprime mortgages and being one of the unlawful "auto-signers" that violated due process laws in handling foreclosures. However, Ally is actually very profitable:


On May 15, 2012, the company put its ResCap subsidiary into Chapter 11 bankruptcy after it failed to make an interest payment of $20 million on unsecured debt. ResCap had written off $22 billion in mortgages in 2009, 2010, and 2011 much of it subprime mortgages. The move was seen as attempt for the company to focus on its profitable core business of auto loans and direct banking (Ally showed a $2.72 billion profit in 2011 in its auto finance unit but had a $402 million loss at ResCap).[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ally_Financial#History

The Unions took significant losses and made huge concessions. Even roses grow in shit...

[Von Halen]

GMAC is now Ally Financial, and their problems do not stem from auto financing but from subprime mortgages and being one of the unlawful "auto-signers" that violated due process laws in handling foreclosures. However, Ally is actually very profitable:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ally_Financial#History

The Unions took significant losses and made huge concessions. Even roses grow in shit...

GM still owes $27 Billion. GMAC/Ally owes $14.7 billion of that. I don't care what they are called now, or what loans they financed. The bottom line is simple. GM/GMAC/Ally received a whole bunch of bailout money, and haven't repaid it, like you claim they did. You can spin doctor it all you want on the technicality of a name change, but they received the money as a GM entitiy, and will never pay it back. GM should have NEVER been bailed out. Keep making excuses for them, while you are footing the bill.

Did the "Unions" make "huge concessions", or did their members make huge concessions? Can you be more specific as to what those "concessions" were? I am in those plants on a weekly basis. I have friends and family employed by all 3 of The Big 3. None of them are suffering. None of them have had any lifestyle change for the worse, only the better. None of them are making any less than they were before. None of them are getting less time off. None of them are getting fucked over with their benefits.

The real people that suffered through the automotive downturn were the suppliers and their employees. The ones that weren't protected by the criminals known as the UAW. The companies and their employees that were going out of business faster than you can blink, because GM was refusing to pay them for product that had already been delivered. Those are the real "auto workers" that made concessions, and suffered greatly. GM should have been put out of business, just like the HUNDREDS of companies they forced out of business by not taking their handout, and paying the proper people with it.

You can suck all the GM and Union cock you want. But what our Government, and GM did, was fucking CRIMINAL.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

You can suck all the GM and Union cock you want. But what our Government, and GM did, was fucking CRIMINAL.

That's cool.... And of course you have the same opinion about Bush bailing out Wall Street 100 cents on the dollar with ZERO strings attached, right ??

[Von Halen]

That's cool.... And of course you have the same opinion about Bush bailing out Wall Street 100 cents on the dollar with ZERO strings attached, right ??

Of course.

[Kristy]

Your 2004 Mercedes was a combined engineering effort of Daimler Chrysler. Mercedes bled the fuck out of Chrysler, sent most of the profits back to Germany, and then nearly let them go out of business. Thankfully Fiat stepped up and righted the ship. The Chrysler World HQ went from a virtual city inside a building, to a ghost town, almost overnight, thanks in a big part, to Mercedes.

Exactly why I bought it. Fuck the American car industry. Let me know when Detroit finally builds a car that is worth a shit.

[Von Halen]

Exactly why I bought it. Fuck the American car industry. Let me know when Detroit finally builds a car that is worth a shit.

You bought a "pile of crap" (your words) to show Detroit up?

You are much too ignorant to know whether Detroit, or anyone else for that matter, are building good cars or not.

Even the junk Generic Motors is putting out these days, is as good or better than any of your over priced foriegn crap.

Keep buying the propaganda, and the "pile of crap" cars like you already own.

Break a nail....

[FORD]

[jhale667]

With the exception of a few of the willfully ignorant, it definitely seems like people are waking up. There's only so much bullshit the average person will overlook, and Mitt's well past the saturation point and still defecating on the airwaves.
Case in point: One conservative co-worker who describes himself as "deeply disappointed" in Obama's overall performance fully acknowledged the blatant Republican obstructionism yesterday (cited it as a reason his disappointment couldn't fully fall on Obama's shoulders), and furthermore said after this week he's still voting for Obama "if only to keep THAT GUY out of office". Good on him.

[Nickdfresh]

Exactly why I bought it. Fuck the American car industry. Let me know when Detroit finally builds a car that is worth a shit.

And you bought a Mercedes?

[Va Beach VH Fan]

It's all over!

[ Clap, clap, clap-clap-clap ]

It's all over!

[ Clap, clap, clap-clap-clap ]

It's all over!

[ Clap, clap, clap-clap-clap ]

[Seshmeister]

With the exception of a few of the willfully ignorant, it definitely seems like people are waking up. There's only so much bullshit the average person will overlook, and Mitt's well past the saturation point and still defecating on the airwaves.
Case in point: One conservative co-worker who describes himself as "deeply disappointed" in Obama's overall performance fully acknowledged the blatant Republican obstructionism yesterday (cited it as a reason his disappointment couldn't fully fall on Obama's shoulders), and furthermore said after this week he's still voting for Obama "if only to keep THAT GUY out of office". Good on him.

Romney is a ridiculous choice for a candidate especially at this time.

[BigBadBrian]

You're an idiot...

Chrysler profits are up 80% because they're producing nice vehicles that people want...[quote]

Yeah....Jeeps. YOU buy one of those other Chrysler pieces of shit. In fact, you can have my wife's van.

[quote]Fiat is currently working to expand Alfa Romeo, Maserati and Jeep on the world market...[quote]

And the new Alfa Romeo SUV will definitely threaten Jeep sales since it's to be built in Ohio. The Alfa SUV is a crapshoot.

[quote]Jeep especially is in high demand...

Jeep are in high demand. True. Jeeps in China are made in China. Jeeps in Europe are made in Italy. Some Jeeps in America are going to be exported from...wait for it...Italy. Some are from US plants. Obama didn't sell Chrysler to the Italians. He gave it to them. Chrysler jobs in America could have been building the Jeeps and exporting them to Europe. Then enter Obama bin Barack.

Hopefully Chrysler can increase its US workforce but they are at Fiat's mercy.

Oh yeah, don't buy the Grand Cherokee.

[ELVIS]

Did you smoke some spice before that post or is it the steroids ??

[BigBadBrian]

Did you smoke some spice before that post or is it the steroids ??

You could use some steroids for that pea-brain of yours because it isn't very powerful. :gulp:

[VAiN]

Exactly why I bought it. Fuck the American car industry. Let me know when Detroit finally builds a car that is worth a shit.

As the proud owner of a 2012 Mustang GT, I can tell you that Ford has their shit together and is making one hell of a product. They have embraced technology and invested in pushing forward.
I paid 31.5 out the door, and I'll put my car up against any car of your choice at that price point.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/05/u9yqevus.jpg

[vandeleur]

Vain that's some car and i love the colour . Very cool

[Nitro Express]

As the proud owner of a 2012 Mustang GT, I can tell you that Ford has their shit together and is making one hell of a product. They have embraced technology and invested in pushing forward.
I paid 31.5 out the door, and I'll put my car up against any car of your choice at that price point.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/05/u9yqevus.jpg

I test drove one and they are nice. Anyone who thinks American cars are shit hasn't owned enough foreign cars. If you ever owned a Jaguar XJ6 you know what I'm talking about. :biggrin: Mercedes and BMW quality has gone downhill in the last few years. All the Japanese cars I have had were pretty reliable but the build quality wasn't the best and the interior trim was pretty cheap. The only thing that ever gave me trouble in an American car was that wonderful GM 700R transmission and a front GM transaxle. My experience with American made engines has been pretty trouble free.

[BigBadBrian]

As the proud owner of a 2012 Mustang GT, I can tell you that Ford has their shit together and is making one hell of a product. They have embraced technology and invested in pushing forward.
I paid 31.5 out the door, and I'll put my car up against any car of your choice at that price point.


Really Nice car, VAIN!!! I've always liked the Mustang.

I agree, FORD MOTORS is producing a much better quality vehicle than either of the other 2 US auto-makers (though Chrysler isn't really American anymore). I've got a F150 pickup and like it also. My wife's Chrysler Van - pretty much pathetic. I'm going to get her a Toyota Highlander (SUV, baby!) I think. I really don't want to buy foreign but GM and Chrysler vehicles are, overall, shit.

[Seshmeister]

Yeah I drove a brand new Chrysler van a few years ago and it was a heap of junk.

I also rented a Mustang for a road trip to the Dave and Sam tour (10 years ago???) and it was ok but not fast and didn't handle that great, I was disappointed in it.

That's good if they are starting to perform more like how they look.

[ELVIS]

GM and Chrysler vehicles are, overall, shit.

That is TOTAL bullshit...

[Kristy]

As the proud owner of a 2012 Mustang GT, I can tell you that Ford has their shit together and is making one hell of a product. They have embraced technology and invested in pushing forward.
I paid 31.5 out the door, and I'll put my car up against any car of your choice at that price point.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/05/u9yqevus.jpg

Your car tells me of two things: one, you're a wannabe teenage girl and two, you have a small penis

[ELVIS]

That's a man's car for someone who appreciates quality, performance and killer looks...

Would driving a Prius make VAiN more attractive to you ??

[Kristy]

And you bought a Mercedes?
I'll still take it over anything Detroit has built in the last 40 years.

[Kristy]

That's a man's car for someone who appreciates quality, performance and killer looks..

right: male, mid to late 40's balding, divorced, alcoholic, living in low-rent apartment hitting on girls half their age about to be repossessed quality car.

[ELVIS]

What stereotype do you fall into ??

[BigBadBrian]

That is TOTAL bullshit...

The only thing that is total BS are your posts. Don't be a hater. :gulp:

[Zing!]

right: male, mid to late 40's balding, divorced, alcoholic, living in low-rent apartment hitting on girls half their age about to be repossessed quality car.

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee340/wolf101971/0811st_55_zsport_truck_milestonesed.jpg

[ELVIS]

The only thing that is total BS are your posts. Don't be a hater. :gulp:

Dude, I know more about cars than you think you know about working out...

Let's see you pick apart one of the following vehicles from the current Top Ten American Cars list from Total Car Score (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/09/top-10-best-american-cars-on-the-market/)...




1. 2012 Cadillac CTS – With an overall “superb” Total Car Score (TCS) of 86.49, the 2012 Cadillac CTS is not only an appealing American entry luxury car, but its first-place ranking is illustrated when “reviewers compare it favorably to European rivals, which used to have the segment sewn up.” The Car Connection review of the 2012 Cadillac CTS concludes: “It has a styling leg up, and the 2012 Cadillac CTS backs up its looks with good dynamics, good build quality and a competitive set of body styles and options.”

2. 2012 Buick LaCrosse – Noting that the 2012 Buick LaCrosse posted the highest score in the large sedan category, the overall 85.01 TCS score receives reviewer praise for its “quiet ride, responsive handling, strong V-6 engine and available all-wheel drive.” Here’s what our editors have to say: “As a sophisticated, roomy, tech-savvy premium sedan—now with up to 36 mpg—the 2012 Buick LaCrosse hits the mark for a lot of shoppers who want luxury on a limited budget.”

3. 2012 Chevrolet Traverse – The family-friendly eight-passenger and the “uncommonly adult-friendly third-row seat” are obvious attractions, contributing to the 2012 Chevrolet Traverse TCS of 84.87. The Car Connection editors comment: “A very spacious interior, seating for eight, and a smooth, quiet ride make the 2012 Chevrolet Traverse a top pick for families.”

4. 2012 Ford Flex – While its style may not appeal to everyone, there’s no arguing the 2012 Ford Flex has a lot to offer, as borne out by its overall 84.44 TCS. Among the positive attributes are its “roomy, comfortable interior and excellent crash test ratings.” On The Car Connection side: “One of our top-rated vehicles, the 2012 Ford Flex has real distinction, along with top-shelf turbo power, great seats and great features.”

5. 2012 GMC Acadia – With a TCS of 84.18, the 2012 GMC Acadia, note editors, “is located in the sweet spot between truck-based SUVs and minivans.” The Car Connection has equally high praise, saying the 2012 GMC Acadia is “the most carlike of GMC vehicles,” is “better for people than a big SUV, better looking than a minivan,” and has top overall safety ratings from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS).

6. 2012 Cadillac CTS-V – The high-performance version of the CTS, the 2012 Cadillac CTS-V is, according to Total Car Score editors, “a genuinely strong contender among the usual German suspects in the premium sport sedan segment.” Its overall TCS of 83.65 bears that out. Of course, there are sedan and wagon variants of the CTS-V line as well. Our editors get right to the point: “With its ZR1-derived powertrain, the 2012 Cadillac CTS-V stuffs Vette excitement into a track-ready coupe, wagon or sedan.”

7. 2012 Chrysler 300 – Its overall 83.29 TSC is credited largely to the comfortable ride, powerful engines, all-wheel drive capability and new eight-speed automatic transmission. The Car Connection editors, meanwhile, say that the 2012 Chrysler 300 is “riper and more mature,” has “classically handsome looks and, in the right versions, big rear-drive fun.”

8. 2012 Ford Taurus SHO – Although it “isn’t exactly your typical family car,” what really sets the 2012 Ford Taurus SHO apart – and leads to its overall 83.22 TCS, is its “gutsy” 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6 engine and firmer suspension tuning delivering confident handling. Our editors have this to say about the 2012 Ford Taurus SHO: “In top SHO guise, it’s a strong, tech-loaded 365-horsepower luxury performance sedan that can sticker at $45k or even higher.”

9. 2012 Cadillac SRX – Giving kudos to the new 3.6-liter V-6 engine under the hood of the 2012 Cadillac SRX (replacing two smaller engines), handsome styling inside and out and standard suspension delivering smooth ride and confident handling, Total Car Score editors weighed in with an overall 83.01 TCS. The Car Connection says: “With a smooth new engine and a rich, uniquely American interior, the 2012 Cadillac SRX appeals to those who want a lot of luxury and flair but don’t require driving excitement.”

10. 2012 Chrysler 300 SRT8 – Hailed by critics as “one serious high performance automobile,” the 2012 Chrysler 300 SRT8 achieves its spot in the Top 10 Best American Cars (with overall TCS of 82.59) thanks to its 470-horsepower HEMI V-8 “that hurtles the car from a standing stop to 60 mph in less than five seconds.” Our review of the 2012 Chrysler 300 (including SRT8), says that the “SRT8 belts out a meaty, NASCAR-ish throb that few cars—even muscle cars—can match.”



The last one is my favorite on the list...


:elvis:

[Kristy]

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee340/wolf101971/0811st_55_zsport_truck_milestonesed.jpg
Is there anything he doesn't whore himself to?

[BigBadBrian]

Dude, I know more about cars than you think you know about working out...


:lmao:

BTW - why did you get fired from being a (supposed) nurse and get your license revoked? Probably got caught stealing patient's meds, huh? :biggrin:

[Nitro Express]

I've owned enough foreign and domestic cars to know it's a push. I could say German cars are junk from some experience. Is that true? Maybe for some specific models. The same for Japanese cars. I can say my Jeep was a hell of a lot more reliable than my Land Rover has been. That being said, I like how the Land Rover drives off road better.

[twonabomber]

10. 2012 Chrysler 300 SRT8 – Hailed by critics as “one serious high performance automobile,” the 2012 Chrysler 300 SRT8 achieves its spot in the Top 10 Best American Cars (with overall TCS of 82.59) thanks to its 470-horsepower HEMI V-8 “that hurtles the car from a standing stop to 60 mph in less than five seconds.” Our review of the 2012 Chrysler 300 (including SRT8), says that the “SRT8 belts out a meaty, NASCAR-ish throb that few cars—even muscle cars—can match.”
[/i]


The last one is my favorite on the list...


:elvis:

Mine, too.

I just paid off my SRT-6 and will probably wait a year before I buy another car. May have to cuntsider the Grand Cherokee SRT-8.



Your car tells me of two things: one, you're a wannabe teenage girl and two, you have a small penis

The thing with the Mustangs...there's a shitload of V6 models out there, some of them with the stripe/graphics package that make them V8 lookalikes. That, and if Ford wants to build a car to truly compete with the Corvette, they should just build one instead of bolting more go-fast parts to Mustangs. You don't see any V6 or V8 Vipers out there...

[ELVIS]

Mine, too.

I just paid off my SRT-6 and will probably wait a year before I buy another car. May have to cuntsider the Grand Cherokee SRT-8.



My wife drives a nice V6 Challenger and we couldn't be happier with it...

I'm hoping to get a used SRT-8 6 speed Challenger in the next year or so...

Some nice used deals out there...

[ELVIS]

:lmao:

BTW - why did you get fired from being a (supposed) nurse and get your license revoked? Probably got caught stealing patient's meds, huh? :biggrin:

No, roidhead...

[VAiN]

right: male, mid to late 40's balding, divorced, alcoholic, living in low-rent apartment hitting on girls half their age about to be repossessed quality car.

You are such a hater. What's your problem? Mad at the world?

To your point, I'm 38, not balding, never married, no bastard kids, have owned a condo in S. Florida minutes from the beach for the last 13 years, go for women 30 years of age and up and my car payments are secure.
Some of us have things called a career and talent. We use these to generate income to buy things, enjoy the good times and not be a bitter cunt. You really should seek help. You seem like you're bright enough to realize you're acting like a child.

[VAiN]

Ford wants to build a car to truly compete with the Corvette, they should just build one instead of bolting more go-fast parts to Mustangs. You don't see any V6 or V8 Vipers out there...

The Mustang really doesn't compete with the Vette, but if it had to, I'd say look at the Shelby GT 500. It's about 660HP and a nasty car. It's sort of apples & oranges though.
The V6 Mustang is basically the bread and butter that allows Ford to make the Boss, the Shelby and develop the new 32-valve 5.0 & 5.8 motors.

[Nickdfresh]

The V6 Mustang is also to have a 300+ horsepower car that gets around 30MPG...

[Nitro Express]

The V6 Mustang is also to have a 300+ horsepower car that gets around 30MPG...

They can get a lot more horsepower and torque out of a V6 now. I know someone who owns a GMC dealership and he said the Sierra pickups came out with V6 engines and they were great and got a lot more mileage. The problem is he couldn't sell them. He would take people on test drives, go up big hills but nobody wanted a V6. He would ask if they were going to pull anything and they said no and he would show them the specs that the new V6 was in the same ballpark as a carburated V8. Then Dodge was killing them in sales because they were selling a V10.

More cylinders is what the truck market wanted and Dodge understood that. You can show specs until you are blue in the face and even give test drives but unless you can overcome the ingrained psychology sometimes selling the new thing is hard. Now that's the truck market I don't know about the muscle car market.

[VAiN]

It's very impressive that we have 300+ HP V6's. 10 years ago I was thrilled to have that in a V8.
My buddy just picked up a 2012 F150 Lariat with the Ecoboost V6 that pumps out 365 HP and 420 ft lbs - amazing power. It's a twin turbo, but still very impressive. I'm of the opinion that a twin turbo V6 mustang is coming up for the 2015 refresh. They could easily get 400/400 and upwards of 30 mpg. Gotta love technology.

[SunisinuS]

Not that people pay even lip service to statistics or facts anymore: I mean...that is Anti-Christmas!

Deconstructing the 5 most ridiculous myths about Barack Obama

.The 44th president has long been the target of misinformation, smear campaigns, and outright, bald-faced lies
I've spent the last four years covering the Obama presidency and tweeting about it on a daily basis from the White House briefing room. And the Twitter messages I get — thousands of them — tell me that there are folks who will believe absolutely anything regardless of whether it is a distorted or a bald-faced lie, and regardless of whether factual information is staring them in the face.

I neither support nor oppose President Obama. I disagree with about half of what he has tried to do. But I do support trying to determine what is accurate and true and what is not. With that in mind, I deconstruct, based on four years worth of observation, the top five bogus myths about Obama:

1. Obama has played more golf than any president in history
This isn't even close to being true. Now, there's no question that he plays on a regular basis: 104 rounds from January 2009 through Aug. 4 of this year, the last time he played, according to Mark Knoller, the longtime White House correspondent for CBS Radio. That puts him about in the middle when compared with other duffers-in-chief. It's less than Bill Clinton, and a lot less than Dwight Eisenhower, who played more than 800 rounds over eight years — four times as often as Obama plays.

And why is it an outrage if the president, who heads one of three branches of government, golfs 104 times in three-and-a-half-years, but the head of another branch of government, the Speaker of the House, plays four times as much? You heard correctly: John Boehner once told Golf Digest that he plays upwards of 100 rounds a year. Seems like a double standard, no?

2. Obama has taken more vacation time than any president in history
This isn't even remotely accurate either, but first, some context from Nancy Reagan: "Presidents don't get vacations — they just get a change of scenery. The job goes with you." The responsibilities, the pressure, the officer with the "nuclear football" — it's all with a commander-in-chief at all times. No exceptions.

But how much time away from the White House has President Obama spent, and how does this compare with predecessors?

POTUS Tracker, compiled by The Washington Post, shows that from January 2009 to October 31, 2012, Obama spent all or part of 72 vacation days in a variety of places, mostly Hawaii in the winter and Martha's Vineyard in the summer. That's about 10 weeks away in three-and-a-half years, hardly extravagant. Through May 18, according to data from CBS's Knoller, he also visited Camp David 22 times, spending all of part of 54 days there.

What about his predecessors?

· In 1798, President John Adams left the capital for seven months to care for his ailing wife Abigail; his enemies said he practically relinquished his office.

· Thomas Jefferson and James Madison routinely went away for three- and four-month stretches.

· Abraham Lincoln, during the Civil War, was blasted for spending about 25 percent of his time away from the White House.

· Dwight Eisenhower took long summer breaks in Denver and spent almost every single weekend at Camp David.

· John F. Kennedy rarely spent a weekend in the White House, staying at family homes in Palm Beach, Hyannis Port, and the Virginia countryside.

· Lyndon Johnson spent 484 days in five and a half years at his Texas ranch.

· Ronald Reagan was away for 436 days, usually at Rancho del Cielo (his mountaintop retreat in California) or Camp David.

· Bill Clinton, who didn't own a vacation home, loved to party with his elite friends in Martha's Vineyard and the Hamptons.

· George W. Bush spent 32 months at his ranch (490 days) or Camp David (487 days) — an average of four months away every year.

Time off doesn't mean goofing off. President Bush, for example, met with a variety of foreign leaders at his ranch. President Obama held a G-8 summit at Camp David. Just like you might check your email while sitting on the beach (you fool, you), presidents never really unplug. But if anyone deserves a vacation, it is the person who serves in the world's most stressful and demanding job.

3. Obama shows his true colors by not going to Arlington National Cemetery
Sadly, the days we set aside to honor those who have worn the uniform of our country — and made the ultimate sacrifice — have become highly politicized. There is an expectation that presidents should go to Arlington National Cemetery on Memorial and Veterans Day. Certainly, any commander-in-chief should mark these sacred days in such fashion. But paying tribute to those whose final resting place is in any other of America's other 130 national cemeteries is no less honorable.

That being said, the tradition of going to Arlington itself on Memorial Day is fairly new. Most presidents never, or rarely, went. Let's look at the past six decades:

· Eisenhower: Twice in eight years

· Kennedy: Never in three years

· Johnson: Once in five years

· Nixon: Never in six years

· Ford: Twice in two years

· Carter: Never in four years

· Reagan: Three times in eight years

· Bush Sr.: Never in four years

· Clinton: Eight times in eight years

· Bush Jr.: Seven times in eight years

· Obama: Three times in four years

Bush Jr. and Obama really have perfect records as far as I'm concerned. The one year Bush wasn't at Arlington he was at Normandy, honoring the heroes of D-Day. The one year Obama wasn't at Arlington he was at a National Cemetery in Illinois, where the heroes who rest in peace are no less deserving of our respect than those who rest in Arlington.

4. Obama has never visited Israel as president, which shows he doesn't give a damn about it
It's true that Barack Obama, as president, hasn't visited the Jewish state. Not once in four years. He's in good company:

· Nixon waited five-and-a half years to visit

· Ford never went

· Carter went once in four years

· Reagan never went in eight years

· Bush Sr. never went

· Clinton went six times in eight years

· Bush Jr. waited seven years to visit

That Obama hasn't gone, therefore, means two things: 1) Jack and 2) Squat. It's true he and Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu don't like each other personally, but the more important issue is whether he's committed to Israeli security. Hardline Defense Minister Ehud Barak, a hawk who, with Netanyahu, has been the driving force behind a possible attack in Iran, says:

I can see long years, administrations of both sides of the political aisle deeply supporting the state of Israeli and I believe that reflects a profound feeling among the American people. But I should tell you honestly that this administration under President Obama is doing in regard to our security more than anything that I can remember in the past.

Then there's Dennis Ross, who has spent a whole lot of time with five Republican and Democratic presidents, not to mention their Israeli counterparts.

I've worked with every Israeli prime minister in the past 30 years, and there have always been ups and downs. But you don't really see the kind of language we're hearing now. It must be the polarization. I can't explain it otherwise.

If you think you know better, Mr. Armchair Expert, than Israel's own hardline defense minister and the guy who has worked with Republican presidents, Democratic presidents, and every Israeli prime minister over the past three decades, I'm all ears.

5. Taxes under Obama are at an all-time high
If you buy this one, congratulations: You've failed not just history, but economics as well. Between the combined burden of federal, state, and local income taxes, Americans are parting with the smallest share of their income since 1958. The Bureau of Economic Analysis says we pay 23.6 percent of what we make, down from an average of about 27 percent during the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s.

What makes you think that any president is responsible for what state and local governments take from you anyway? Never mind that Congress controls the federal purse strings, and never mind that cuts in income tax rates and payroll tax rates have been in effect for several years now. Of course, this could all change come January, unless hyper-divided Washington can somehow find a way to cooperate and avoid taking the economy over the fiscal cliff. But for now, the notion that taxes are gobbling up more of our hard earned income than ever is, to use a word we've heard often during this long and often dishonest campaign, malarky.



http://news.yahoo.com/deconstructing-5-most-ridiculous-myths-barack-obama-061800188.html

[Guitar Shark]

Your car tells me of two things: one, you're a wannabe teenage girl and two, you have a small penis

This post brought to you by the roller coaster emotional freakshow that is Kristy.

She said she was leaving for good, and yet she is back, hurling lame insults at people who have far more to be happy about than she.

Why don't you tell us more about the next pair of shoes you want to buy?

[SunisinuS]

This post brought to you by the roller coaster emotional freakshow that is Kristy.

She said she was leaving for good, and yet she is back, hurling lame insults at people who have far more to be happy about than she.

Why don't you tell us more about the next pair of shoes you want to buy?

Is Kristy running for Prez? If so...i will vote for her. Give me a better alternative.

[ThrillsNSpills]

Is Kristy running for Prez? If so...i will vote for her. Give me a better alternative.

I couldn't imagine those political ads.

[Kristy]

Oh I can.

[LoungeMachine]

This post brought to you by the roller coaster emotional freakshow that is Kristy.

She said she was leaving for good, and yet she is back, hurling lame insults at people who have far more to be happy about than she.

Why don't you tell us more about the next pair of shoes you want to buy?

:lmao:

:rofl:

:gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

They can get a lot more horsepower and torque out of a V6 now...

Like turbos? The new Ford Taurus SHO Police Interceptor with a turbocharged 3.5L V6 destroys both its Dodge and Chevy V8 competitors in testing. The local dept's are getting them because they're AWD...

Here's the episode of American Top Gear if you can get it to load: http://www.history.com/shows/top-gear/videos/playlists/season-3-full-episodes#top-gear-police-cars

[Von Halen]

The twin turbo in the new Ecoboost engine, is bad ass. Virtually eliminates the low rpm lag of a single turbo.

If Plymouth had done this with the Prowler, WOW!

I prefer the sound of a V8, but there is no denying the power, performance and gas mileage of the new generation of V6's.

Please do not discourage Krusty from posting. We need as much comical ignorance as we can get, around here.

[Kristy]

You are such a hater. What's your problem? Mad at the world?

To your point, I'm 38, not balding, never married, no bastard kids, have owned a condo in S. Florida minutes from the beach for the last 13 years, go for women 30 years of age and up and my car payments are secure.
Some of us have things called a career and talent. We use these to generate income to buy things, enjoy the good times and not be a bitter cunt. You really should seek help. You seem like you're bright enough to realize you're acting like a child.

Well if any good comes form this it would be how your Small Penis Need To Buy A Mustang Pre-Middle Life Crisis Support Group is working out for you.

[Kristy]

The twin turbo in the new Ecoboost engine, is bad ass.

Wow. The Detroit "Ecoboost" engine
http://www.dreamstime.com/cute-hamster-in-a-hamster-wheel-thumb10434221.jpg

Badass indeed.

[Von Halen]

Well if any good comes form this it would be how your Small Penis Need To Buy A Mustang Pre-Middle Life Crisis Support Group is working out for you.

And your dry kunt needed you to buy that over priced, under achieving "pile of crap", right?

[Von Halen]

Wow. The Detroit "Ecoboost" engine
http://www.dreamstime.com/cute-hamster-in-a-hamster-wheel-thumb10434221.jpg

Badass indeed.

That's your retort? Brilliant.

You are living proof abortion should be legal.

[Kristy]

Eh, it was more or less a bargain deal. But "under achieving"? I had no idea my car wanted to go to college.

[Kristy]

You are living proof abortion should be legal.

And you're living proof why the trailer park was invented.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Well if any good comes form this it would be how your Small Penis Need To Buy A Mustang Pre-Middle Life Crisis Support Group is working out for you.

I don't know what your problem is, and I really don't care, but indiscriminately bashing virtually everyone on this board is not cool, not cool at all....

So I'll say this as politely as I can, chill the fuck out....