Sen. Kerry vs. Nobel Prize Economists

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  • John Ashcroft
    Veteran
    • Jan 2004
    • 2127

    Sen. Kerry vs. Nobel Prize Economists

    6/18/04, Washington – While John Kerry calls for a 36% increase in the minimum wage, the majority of economic research, including the statements of five Nobel Prize-winning economists, continue to show that raising the minimum wage is a dangerous political ploy that will only serve to make life harder for the nation’s least skilled employees.
    “Leading economists such as Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan and Nobel Prize-winning economist Milton Friedman are honest brokers of information who realize that a minimum wage will have the unintended consequence of hurting the least skilled employees in America. It is unfortunate and unconscionable that Sen. Kerry would seek to gain political advantage despite the decades of research and scores of economic studies highlighting the damage caused by these wage increases,” said Richard Berman, executive director of the Employment Policies Institute.

    This research dates back to Franklin Roosevelt’s own Secretary of Labor, Frances Perkins, whose researchers found that following the creation of the first minimum wage, low-skill employees lost their jobs to higher skilled and more experienced applicants attracted to the new wage. More recent research from Cornell University shows that groups such as high school dropouts and African-American young adults suffer four times more employment loss from a minimum wage hike than all other employees.

    So John "jiggy-fly" Kerry isn't a man of the street??? Say it isn't so!:eek:

    “These lost job opportunities for low-skill employees are the real results from a minimum wage hike,” said Berman. “Rather than help those who most need assistance, Sen. Kerry’s minimum wage hike will push low-skill family heads out of the labor market and deeper into poverty.”

    According to U.S. Census data, only 15% of the beneficiaries from Kerry’s proposed increase are single earners with children. The remaining 85% are teenagers living with their working parents, adults living alone, or they are married with a working spouse.
    As a result, the average income of these beneficiaries is over $44,000 a year. Concurring, former Clinton Labor Secretary Robert Reich has acknowledged, “after all most minimum wage workers aren’t poor.”

    Link: here
  • Pink Spider
    Sniper
    • Jan 2004
    • 867

    #2
    Re: Sen. Kerry vs. Nobel Prize Economists

    What a load of corporate media crap. Greenspan is an "honest broker of information" about as much as I'm a Republican.

    A higher minimum wage will inevitably have to cut into the profits of the higher-ups after they find that one person can't do the work of 4 and that's what they're really concerned about. Can't have those workers actually able to afford things you know.

    Comment

    • freak
      Sniper
      • May 2004
      • 980

      #3
      Re: Re: Sen. Kerry vs. Nobel Prize Economists

      Originally posted by Pink Spider
      What a load of corporate media crap. Greenspan is an "honest broker of information" about as much as I'm a Republican.

      A higher minimum wage will inevitably have to cut into the profits of the higher-ups after they find that one person can't do the work of 4 and that's what they're really concerned about. Can't have those workers actually able to afford things you know.

      Sooooo.....Corporate America's plan for greater profit involves the selling of goods and services to a smaller pool of consumers.

      You might want to re-examine your theory or, at least, take an economics course.

      Comment

      • Pink Spider
        Sniper
        • Jan 2004
        • 867

        #4
        Ashcroft, do you have an alias?

        BTW, you might want to look into real world economics instead of studying Wall Street propaganda. The world doesn't work like the fantasy-land of capitalist theory economic courses. There are sweatshops and cheap labor loving conservatives seem to support that kind of thing. So, I wouldn't count on them to see that as a bad.

        In fact I bet they'd love to lower minimum wage to $.50 an hour to compete with places like China and Mexico. Then capitalism could really work, right?

        Comment

        • freak
          Sniper
          • May 2004
          • 980

          #5
          Originally posted by Pink Spider
          Ashcroft, do you have an alias?

          BTW, you might want to look into real world economics instead of studying Wall Street propaganda. The world doesn't work like the fantasy-land of capitalist theory economic courses. There are sweatshops and cheap labor loving conservatives seem to support that kind of thing. So, I wouldn't count on them to see that as a bad.

          In fact I bet they'd love to lower minimum wage to $.50 an hour to compete with places like China and Mexico. Then capitalism could really work, right?
          Hmmmmm....

          Let's take the largest free market in the world and remove every last vestige of its' purchasing power to compete with China.

          And, we're selling to who, exactly?

          Do you even think before you spew this nonsense?

          Comment

          • Pink Spider
            Sniper
            • Jan 2004
            • 867

            #6
            Originally posted by freak
            Hmmmmm....

            Let's take the largest free market in the world and remove every last vestige of its' purchasing power to compete with China.

            And, we're selling to who, exactly?

            Do you even think before you spew this nonsense?
            Do you even think period?

            The cheap labor conservatives hate the labor movement and hate the idea of minimum wage. They're the non-thinkers destroying their own system. I was pointing out their falacies that you didn't seem to understand.

            So, why not raise minimum wage so the consumer can buy more goods? You've just trapped yourself. Very good.

            Comment

            • freak
              Sniper
              • May 2004
              • 980

              #7
              Originally posted by Pink Spider
              Do you even think period?

              The cheap labor conservatives hate the labor movement and hate the idea of minimum wage. They're the non-thinkers destroying their own system. I was pointing out their falacies that you didn't seem to understand.
              They didn't get rich by being stupid.

              So, why not raise minimum wage so the consumer can buy more goods? You've just trapped yourself. Very good.
              Sounds like you're talking out of your ass.

              Comment

              • Lincoln
                Groupie
                • Jan 2004
                • 80

                #8
                While John Kerry calls for a 36% increase in the minimum wage,
                36% - ppfffttt, why not just make the minimum wage 50,000 a year? I mean what the hell corporate profits can absord that kind of number.
                http://debatepolicy.com

                Comment

                • John Ashcroft
                  Veteran
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 2127

                  #9
                  Actually Lincoln, you'll hear these clowns parrot the "living wage" idea around here quite often. What do you think they're talking about?

                  Essentially it'd be the first large step towards outright Socialism.

                  And Pinky, no alias. Not quite sure what you meant by the question, but I'd be glad to answer whatever it is you're looking for (provided certain pictures are posted...) Anyway, read the article again. There have been studies on the impact of a raise in minimum wage. And it didn't come from Greenspan.

                  Here it is:

                  This research dates back to Franklin Roosevelt’s own Secretary of Labor, Frances Perkins, whose researchers found that following the creation of the first minimum wage, low-skill employees lost their jobs to higher skilled and more experienced applicants attracted to the new wage. More recent research from Cornell University shows that groups such as high school dropouts and African-American young adults suffer four times more employment loss from a minimum wage hike than all other employees.

                  I know, I know, you're arguing exclusively on how you "feel" about the topic. Research and proof be damned! But, I've seemed to hit a sore spot with you here. Tell me, is you passion for a raise in the minimum wage vested in personal interest? Is this the only way you ever get a raise?

                  Comment

                  • Pink Spider
                    Sniper
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 867

                    #10
                    So, didn't the market recover after the last minimum wage increase and hasn't production doubled since the 60s? Its you, the low wage conservatives that are full of it.

                    You forget that the first minimum wage laws were written coming out of a depression when higher skilled employees were jobless and the second report doesn't take into account of the temporary market adjustments. Someone will have to do those high skilled jobs.

                    It has nothing to do about how I "feel". It's all about how you're incapable of simple logic.

                    Comment

                    • Lincoln
                      Groupie
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 80

                      #11
                      Originally posted by John Ashcroft
                      Actually Lincoln, you'll hear these clowns parrot the "living wage" idea around here quite often. What do you think they're talking about?

                      You are quite right JA, I know they are gearing toward socialism. But you and I know that the minimun wage is just that, minimun. Its not meant to be a carrier wage.
                      http://debatepolicy.com

                      Comment

                      • Pink Spider
                        Sniper
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 867

                        #12
                        Yeah, let's go back to pure capitalism. Perhaps they could bring back child labor. Ashcroft would love that idea.

                        Comment

                        • Lincoln
                          Groupie
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 80

                          #13
                          Yeah, that is a logical retort.
                          http://debatepolicy.com

                          Comment

                          • John Ashcroft
                            Veteran
                            • Jan 2004
                            • 2127

                            #14
                            I worked a minimum wage job once, when I was 15 on working papers my parents had to sign. The wage was $3.35 per hour, working the counter at a meat market (absolutely no skills required). I stayed at that wage for approximately 4 weeks, after which I was given a $1 per hour raise. You see, all I had to do is work hard. I didn't have to show any great skill or ability. I didn't need experience. I didn't need a college degree. Just hard work.

                            The problem with you commies, is that you feel employers owe you something just for showing up. Somehow you're entitled to more of their money because you're giving them your time. Hard work is almost never even mentioned by your type. But the fact is, even at minimum wage, if you're willing to work hard mimimum wage is just that... And it's temporary.

                            But hell Pinky, I'll bite. Where's your statistics showing that a large segment of our labor force works at minimum wage? The article I posted breaks it down, but you take issue with it. Where's your supporting data?

                            Comment

                            • Pink Spider
                              Sniper
                              • Jan 2004
                              • 867

                              #15
                              Originally posted by John Ashcroft
                              The problem with you commies, is that you feel employers owe you something just for showing up. Somehow you're entitled to more of their money because you're giving them your time. Hard work is almost never even mentioned by your type. But the fact is, even at minimum wage, if you're willing to work hard mimimum wage is just that... And it's temporary.

                              Their money?

                              Hard work? Do you actually think that CEOs do hard labor for their cash? Give me a break. They get rich by making others work for them without lifting a finger. You're completely and utterly clueless. The minimum wage worker usually works harder than those paid more. Just showing up? You're just showing ignorance.

                              But hell Pinky, I'll bite. Where's your statistics showing that a large segment of our labor force works at minimum wage? The article I posted breaks it down, but you take issue with it. Where's your supporting data?
                              I never said that they did. So, stop making up stuff to support your hollow arguments.
                              Last edited by Pink Spider; 06-24-2004, 11:31 AM.

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