Montrose

[tommyv]

So a late night at work...drinking Twice As Mad Tom after a couple at the curling club. We had a big comeback win tonight. Down 5-1 after 4, we ended up with a 12-7 win.

The first Montrose album is on the turntable and is a spectacular piece of vinyl. I don't give a fuck about who the lead singer is, this was a practice project for Mr Templeman.

Sammy peaked early.

Discuss amongst yourselves, I only have 2 beer left.

[FORD]

Still have it on vinyl. Still listen to it on occasion..... try to drown out the vocals somehow.

[VHscraps]

Yeah, Sam is the singer and he actually wrote most of the tunes, which - in light of his later career - makes it all the more amazing that it is one of the most killer rock albums ever. Still have the vinyl.

Check this out - this is Montrose playing the intro to 'Rock Candy' in the movie A Star is Born from 1976 - you don't actually see 'em up close, but that's them on-stage as the camera flies over the stadium:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5_0lSx4Hcs

I think Hagar had left by then - but you don't hear any vocals on that clip anyway. Think his replacement was a guy called Bob James. I also like their second album, Paper Money - but their albums were actually dreck after Hagar left. Figure that one out.

Ronnie made a couple of decent albums with Gamma in the late 70s/early 80s (Gamma 2 is the best in my book)

[Seshmeister]

I'm not interested, I hear Adolf Hitler was kind to his pet dogs.

There is enough music in the world that there is no need to ever go anywhere near anything Hagar was involved in.

[DLR Bridge]

I'm not interested, I hear Adolf Hitler was kind to his pet dogs.

Not quite. Rent Downfall with Bruno Ganz. That fucker made the dogs swallow cyanide, too.

[Seshmeister]

Better than being eaten by a bunch of Russian soldiers.

[VHscraps]

I suspect that people could be split into two camps on this:

(i) those who heard Montrose long before Hagar came within a country mile of Van Halen

(ii) those who never knew the album at all (it wasn't a big seller, although it had gone platinum probably before he joined VH due to its reputation) and only knew him as the luckiest man in rock'n'roll in 1985 in being able to step into what Dave created.

I was listening to Montrose - the 1973 debut - as a fan of it for at least 6 years before all of that. I had been hearing it since the day it was released - 'cos one of my brothers was the first guy in our small town to own it!! And even though Hagar was recognised by many in the late 70s as just another mediocre talent, no one that I knew and who had been familiar with the Montrose debut changed their mind about it. They didn't change their mind after he joined VH either.

It's just some kind of cosmic accident that he made that album - he managed to hook up with three other guys who were perfect in letting it all happen, and of course, Templeman and Landee showed that they made the best sounding records of anybody at that time (I recommend also Sailin' Shoes by Little Feat from around the same time, maybe earlier - 72 - to see that they were two guys who knew what they were doing).

I gave him a chance in VH for the first two albums, then I bailed - because it wasn't VH. The realisation was very clear - VH was more DAVE than anything else.

I fully understand, though, that if you are in the second of those two camps, it would be impossible to go and listen to it now without all that has happened colouring your view of it. But, I still rate it as one of my favourite hard rock albums.

[chefcraig]

For me, the best Montrose album is still Open Fire, mainly because there isn't any annoying singing going on to clutter up or cover over the freakin' guitar playin'.


http://img1.imagehousing.com/94/cc1598463b603bcb78f463a30e2ff73a.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/1111478)

[cadaverdog]

Montrose Montrose is a better album than any of the Van Hagar stuff, most of Dave's solo stuff and a couple CVH albums.

[Matt White]

I'll take DIVER DOWN over MONTROSE anyday of the week........

better than Van Haggis? Yup....I will give you that...RONNIE plays his ass off on the 1st record....Spam is almost tolerable....AND it was 1973....so they got that going for 'em...........too bad Spam's ego got in the way so early in his career...MONTROSE might have actually been important.......instead of a footnote....funny how history repeated itself?

[cadaverdog]

I'll take DIVER DOWN over MONTROSE anyday of the week........

better than Van Haggis? Yup....I will give you that...RONNIE plays his ass off on the 1st record....Spam is almost tolerable....AND it was 1973....so they got that going for 'em...........too bad Spam's ego got in the way so early in his career...MONTROSE might have actually been important.......instead of a footnote....funny how history repeated itself?
No doubt Sammy's mouth runs too much. So does the sisters but everybody forgives them. They fucked Dave twice. Sam treated Dave better than he deserved when they toured together. Everybody forgets that.

[Matt White]

No doubt Sammy's mouth runs too much. So does the sisters but everybody forgives them. They fucked Dave twice. Sam treated Dave better than he deserved when they toured together. Everybody forgets that.

I mean the lyrics on MONTROSE suck...which is typical Spammy

DAVE worst stuff is MILES better than Spam's best...........

Now...if DAVE had been the singer on MONTROSE.....hell, we know who'd be more famous.....

The sister's are lucky to have had DAVE...otherwise they'd have been QUIET RIOT....

still....that CD is a good one....

[Nickdfresh]

Montrose Montrose is a better album than any of the Van Hagar stuff, most of Dave's solo stuff and a couple CVH albums.

You're retarded if you think that jerked-off noise is better than anything CVH or EAS...

Actually, I don't mind "Rad Motor Scooter" or whatever the fuck it is, but the lyrics sound like they were written by a four year old overdosing on a sugar high...

[Nickdfresh]

No doubt Sammy's mouth runs too much. So does the sisters but everybody forgives them. They fucked Dave twice. Sam treated Dave better than he deserved when they toured together. Everybody forgets that.

Sam runs his mouth alright, but I don't have a huge problem with that. The sisters have only on occasion run their mouths on anything after the initial war of words in 1986, save for the MTV meltdown of "Tonight is not about your fucking hip!" 1996. But the sisters are both virtuosos at what they do. Sam certainly ain't. He'd good at maximizing what little talent he had and for self-promotion, but he sucks balls musically. Many will argue he has a really good voice, but I've always thought he sounded like Janice Joplin being raped by howler monkeys...

[FORD]

You're retarded if you think that jerked-off noise is better than anything CVH or EAS...

Actually, I don't mind "Rad Motor Scooter" or whatever the fuck it is, but the lyrics sound like they were written by a four year old overdosing on a sugar high...

Especially this part....


Now, since you been gone, I been feelin' a-bad, yeah!
I come out to your place – I'm afraid of your dad.

Seriously.... this was written by someone who claimed to be a badass boxing champion??

[chefcraig]

POOR SONGWRITING 101

Lesson A: Start with a great opening line, then turn the rest of the tune into an uninspired and insipid piece of crap-o-rama...


Well, I gave love a chance and it shit back in my face
And I just quit my job makin' toothpicks out of logs
You know it's gettin' thin when your friends turn you in
Better sock away your bread, there's a worse time ahead

And I don't want it
Not today, no no I don't need it
So take it away, yes
Get along right here

Flowers make me sneeze and prayin' hurts my knees
Funerals make me cry and I don't wanna die
Gettin' high's a gas, but stayin' high, I'll pass
Goin' to school's alright but teachers are uptight

Wooh, I don't want it
Not today, no no I don't need it
Take it away, yeah
I said I, I don't want it
Not today, no no I, I don't need it
Take it away, yeah
I don't want it
Not today I don't need it
Take it away, yeah
I said I don't want it
Not today, no no I, I don't need it
Take it away, yeah, yeah, yea

[DLR Bridge]

Sam treated Dave better than he deserved when they toured together. Everybody forgets that.

Huuuhhh???? Not that I've ever heard or read about. All Sammy did was piss and moan about dressing room sizes and complain that he wasn't being thanked enough by Dave for him "pulling his career out of the sewer and putting him back in front of larger crowds". Yeah, Sammy was a saint. Puhleeeze.

[Nitro Express]

Sammy is an egotistical windbag but he's also a fighter. When he came into Van Halen he saw how little Warner Brothers were paying them and Sam and his manager took Warners on and managed to get Van Halen a bunch of money retroactive. I think it was $1 million. Not bad. From an artist standpoint; especially with lyrics Sam is a dud. From a negotiation and business standpoint I find the guy interesting actually. The guy is a hard core businessman but looks like an aging beach bum. Sam looks like the guy who would be running a metal detector on the beach in the morning. LOL!

[hambon4lif]

There is enough music in the world that there is no need to ever go anywhere near anything Hagar was involved in.Besides the first Montrose album, that statement is dead-on.

It's been so long that I can't even remember the last time I heard it, but it's the only one I could actually listen to for more than 10 minutes.

Every single album Hagar has made since, including the Van Hagar ones, have all been identical. 2 blatant radio kiss-ups, and the entire rest of it is the most unlistenable garbage bullshit filler you'll ever hear in your life. They're 'time-vampires' that piss you off because you could've spent that time listening to something cool instead. That just makes you hate him even more.

Some people are satisfied with mediocrity, the rest of us think it's shit.

[Zing!]

Sam treated Dave better than he deserved when they toured together. Everybody forgets that.

I definitely seem to have forgotten that. I wouldn't mind hearing your rationale for that claim.

[VHscraps]

Sam looks like the guy who would be running a metal detector on the beach in the morning. LOL!

Maybe that is why he was able to make so much cash in his career. While everyone is going, "hey, you kidding me? A fucking cantina in Cabo San Lucas - let him have it ... What? Our own brand Tequila? Fuck no, I'm not investing in it ... With that douche in charge it is bound to fail ..."

And Sam continues to stroll down that beach with his metal detector ...

I read his book, and while all the stuff about how much money he made got a bit tiresome after a while, there is no doubt he decided early on he wasn't gonna end up poor like his old man - who I think died a homeless drunk on the street.

You are right - his manager, Leffler, seems to have served his artists better than the jerk who is now either hauling VH off the road and/or preventing them going on the road (delete as appropriate).

In case he, the goddam manager FFS, has to pay Live Nation a cut because of his severance deal with them!!

[DLR Bridge]

They're 'time-vampires' that piss you off because you could've spent that time listening to something cool instead.

I'm not sure that makes sense, but I like the way it sounds!

Is it beer o' clock yet?

[78/84 guy]

I definitely seem to have forgotten that. I wouldn't mind hearing your rationale for that claim.

It's all bullshit ! Sam was playing smaller clubs as soon as he put out his first solo album, after he was out of Van Halen. But he has too make it sound like nobody cared about Dave anymore. Even though Dave was playing places with Brian Young for a few years at this point. I have defended Hagar about some things before but that one always pissed me off. He is so full of shit. All the guy does is bitch about anything he can these last 10 years. And for a guy that truly has everything I don't get it. He would have been a nobody at this point if it wasn't for his time in Van Halen. As far as the Montrose album goes I love it. I think it paved the way for bands like Styx & Boston or whatever. Even though it never got much airplay itself. The FM rock bands got their formula from it. Whatever you think of them. Me not to much. Most of them had some good hits. So that makes it a somewhat important album. Paper Money is good but too mellow for me. Nobody is missing too much not have it. Ronnie was awesome though. Love Open Fire and Music From Hear. Great solo stuff. Bearings was cool also. I meet him once. A real nice down to earth guy. It's a shame he is gone.

[Seshmeister]

POOR SONGWRITING 101

Lesson A: Start with a great opening line, then turn the rest of the tune into an uninspired and insipid piece of crap-o-rama...


Well, I gave love a chance and it shit back in my face
And I just quit my job makin' toothpicks out of logs
You know it's gettin' thin when your friends turn you in
Better sock away your bread, there's a worse time ahead

And I don't want it
Not today, no no I don't need it
So take it away, yes
Get along right here

Flowers make me sneeze and prayin' hurts my knees
Funerals make me cry and I don't wanna die
Gettin' high's a gas, but stayin' high, I'll pass
Goin' to school's alright but teachers are uptight

Wooh, I don't want it
Not today, no no I don't need it
Take it away, yeah
I said I, I don't want it
Not today, no no I, I don't need it
Take it away, yeah
I don't want it
Not today I don't need it
Take it away, yeah
I said I don't want it
Not today, no no I, I don't need it
Take it away, yeah, yeah, yea

Hahaha.

It's like Vogon poetry... :)

[cadaverdog]

I definitely seem to have forgotten that. I wouldn't mind hearing your rationale for that claim.
Mainly based on a documentary I saw about the tour. It was biased by the fact it was more from Sam's side but they showed a lot of odd crap Dave was involved in. And the fact Sam asked Dave a few times to do it when Daves career was going nowhere after the sisters used him to make the greatest hits album.

[Nickdfresh]

Maybe that is why he was able to make so much cash in his career. While everyone is going, "hey, you kidding me? A fucking cantina in Cabo San Lucas - let him have it ... What? Our own brand Tequila? Fuck no, I'm not investing in it ... With that douche in charge it is bound to fail ..."

And Sam continues to stroll down that beach with his metal detector ...

I read his book, and while all the stuff about how much money he made got a bit tiresome after a while, there is no doubt he decided early on he wasn't gonna end up poor like his old man - who I think died a homeless drunk on the street.

You are right - his manager, Leffler, seems to have served his artists better than the jerk who is now either hauling VH off the road and/or preventing them going on the road (delete as appropriate).

In case he, the goddam manager FFS, has to pay Live Nation a cut because of his severance deal with them!!

Sam is living proof that people are stupid, tasteless, and vapid and will purchase miserable excuses for shit music as an "experience" of nostalgia.

Without Van Hagar, he would be a barely recognizable footnote in music history, and known merely as a 'flavor-of-the-month" trend-bandwagon-hopper that went through a bunch of phases mimicking everyone from Peter Frampton to now Jimmy Buffett...

I think Anthony Bourdain sums it up nicely here in a video with comments on Guy Fieri at the 2:50 mark. I don't think he mentions Hagar, but it might as well be as Chad Kroeger and Sam are buds and pretty much of the same culturally deficient ilk of crap masquerading as rock idolatry...

[Nickdfresh]

Mainly based on a documentary I saw about the tour. It was biased by the fact it was more from Sam's side but they showed a lot of odd crap Dave was involved in. And the fact Sam asked Dave a few times to do it when Daves career was going nowhere after the sisters used him to make the greatest hits album.

Where the fuck was Sam's career going?

[DLR Bridge]

Mainly based on a documentary I saw about the tour. It was biased by the fact it was more from Sam's side but they showed a lot of odd crap Dave was involved in. And the fact Sam asked Dave a few times to do it when Daves career was going nowhere after the sisters used him to make the greatest hits album.

Sam asked Dave to do it because he loved taunting the brothers. You make it sound like he was being a good samaritan. It's always been about his own interest. He knew more money would come in if he toured with Dave rather than some upstart flavor of the month band. He loved doing anything that he knew would piss Ed and Al off. He put out a live album that featured Gary fucking Cherone and Mike Anthony performing Dreams with him FFS!! Would he ever have asked Gary on stage if he didn't think it would get Ed's goat? Fuck no and fuck him.

[FORD]

Where the fuck was Sam's career going?

Apparently to BeeGees land, if this performance is any indication.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA314KTTcbQ

[Coyote]

Apparently to BeeGees land, if this performance is any indication.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA314KTTcbQ

Egad... Talk about chasing trends... :biggrin:

[FORD]

Well this should help clean that disco cheese out of your ears....

Yeah, it's still Hagar singing, but at least the guitar's good.......



https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=LBjFrocXfRU

[DLR Bridge]

In that first vid, he's wearing whatever Kate Smith was wearing at the time. Very odd man.

Oh and, way to fall flat on the easy notes. I feel a Ched Chunker thread jump start coming on.

[cadaverdog]

Sam asked Dave to do it because he loved taunting the brothers. You make it sound like he was being a good samaritan. It's always been about his own interest. He knew more money would come in if he toured with Dave rather than some upstart flavor of the month band. He loved doing anything that he knew would piss Ed and Al off. He put out a live album that featured Gary fucking Cherone and Mike Anthony performing Dreams with him FFS!! Would he ever have asked Gary on stage if he didn't think it would get Ed's goat? Fuck no and fuck him.
It doesn't bother me that it pissed off the sisters as well. Or that Sammy made money doing it. It still benefited Dave. Spin it how you want. His career was going nowhere then. He was playing the club circuit in Orange County right before he took the Sam and Dave gig.

[DLR Bridge]

It doesn't bother me that it pissed off the sisters as well. Or that Sammy made money doing it. It still benefited Dave. Spin it how you want. His career was going nowhere then. He was playing the club circuit in Orange County right before he took the Sam and Dave gig.

I'm not arguing that the tour didn't give Dave's solo career a shot in the arm. It surely did, but it was both of them who benefited from the pairing. Like Nick said, where was Sammy's music career going?

[cadaverdog]

I'm not arguing that the tour didn't give Dave's solo career a shot in the arm. It surely did, but it was both of them who benefited from the pairing. Like Nick said, where was Sammy's music career going?
Sammy was still playing arenas with the Waboritos and whatever he called his band when Mikey played bass. And still putting out albums. A lot more than Dave was doing at the time.

[Nickdfresh]

Sammy was still playing with Mikey's balls. And suffering from a prolapsed rectum. A lot more than Dave was doing at the time.

Fixed...

[Hardrock69]

Curling?

Where someone slides a giant weightlifter's weight down the ice and some moron goes after it with a broom? :lmao:

[cadaverdog]

Trolled..
It was inevitable.

[chefcraig]

Sammy was still playing arenas with the Waboritos and whatever he called his band when Mikey played bass. And still putting out albums. A lot more than Dave was doing at the time.

By and large, I'd have to agree, yet you have to admit that by that point (2002) both of these guys (Dave Roth and Hagar) had fallen well beneath the radar in terms of public taste. Just think of the bands that were on the radio (Sorry, I refuse to do so, as the mere thought sends my bowels shivering toward the crapper) like Creed and Hoobastank. As a result, either one of 'em was merely a step away from doing car shows with David Hasselhoff and Adam West dressed up in an ill-fitting Batman costume.

In fact, the only true highlights of the year occurred when The Simpsons featured Elvis Costello, Tom Petty, the Glimmer Twins and Brian Setzer on an episode where Homer went to a rock and roll fantasy camp vacation and PBS broadcasted the highly moving Concert For George Harrison.

[sadaist]

Montrose sucks.



There, I said it.

[78/84 guy]

Sammy was still playing arenas with the Waboritos and whatever he called his band when Mikey played bass. And still putting out albums. A lot more than Dave was doing at the time.

Sammy was not playing arenas. He was playing clubs & theaters. And his albums were nothing like what he did before Van Halen. Shit some of what I heard was country almost ! I did like one. Ten 13. Got it for five bucks. It had a few tunes that reminded me of that Twister song. But his albums didn't sell after VH. I think his first one did o.k.

[Zing!]

Almost positive Haggar was playing the casino circuit during this time (as was DLR). I think they both played at Mystic Lake Casino here in MN around that time.

[sadaist]

I'm not arguing that the tour didn't give Dave's solo career a shot in the arm. It surely did, but it was both of them who benefited from the pairing. Like Nick said, where was Sammy's music career going?



This tour with Dave was the peak of Sams post-VH career. After VH 1996 he had a short string of very popular albums and was playing large theaters & ampitheaters. The Jimmy Buffet Wabo thing was a huge success and everyone was enjoying it, the party rock beach lifestyle, and Mikey coming out for a couple VH tunes. But after the Sam/Dave tour it all went south for Sam. Country album, crappy live album, crappy anthem song, failed reunion tour with 3 god awful songs, and an enormous loss in the amount of people still in to the Wabo party concert thing. He toured so much that these people in their 40's mostly had already seen him 3 times and were just staying home with the kids now. Except for the dedicated red heads. Sammy was offering nothing new to keep them coming out.

And now we got us a Chickenfoot that even less people are following.


On the flip side 2002 was probably the lowest point of Daves solo career. This tour reignited interest in DLR. After which he had the radio gig, Boston Pops and bluegrass thing. 5 years of crap yes.....but 5 years of a lot of press. His name was out there quite often which right up to 2002 it wasn't.

Daves name = reunion rumors = good thing

and we got us 2007. Since Dave still had the taste of failure strong in his mouth, he performed on this tour like never before. And WOW! was he awesome! His voice & performances were the strongest perhaps we had ever seen.

So there it is. I was at the Sam/Dave tour & enjoyed both acts. Sammy closed and had the better stage setup. Dave had the better setlist.

[78/84 guy]

Almost positive Haggar was playing the casino circuit during this time (as was DLR). I think they both played at Mystic Lake Casino here in MN around that time.

Hag was playing small places right after Van Halen. I went to his first two tours. Both in smaller places. At the U of M the first time. About 3000 seats and he was horrible. People up close were giving him shit about the Wobo's. How sloppy they were. He said hey man it's only our third show ! I thought what the fuck. Maybe you should have practiced more dude ! I just went because I was bored. Then he came back a few years later with Mike and the original Montrose. At a casino. His band still sucked. Montrose was awesome. Not sure why people think he was playing big places. He wasn't. Not that I really care.

[Nitro Express]

Hag. :lmao:

[DLR Bridge]

Not sure why people think he was playing big places. He wasn't. Not that I really care.

Precisely why I bailed on the argument that was originally about Dave owing Hags thanks, which he did not. And I'm with you in the not caring department.