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Seshmeister
03-19-2013, 08:29 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21768668

The Lyndon Johnson tapes: Richard Nixon's 'treason'


By David Taylor
BBC Archive On 4


Declassified tapes of President Lyndon Johnson's telephone calls provide a fresh insight into his world. Among the revelations - he planned a dramatic entry into the 1968 Democratic Convention to re-join the presidential race. And he caught Richard Nixon sabotaging the Vietnam peace talks... but said nothing.



http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/66425000/jpg/_66425593_johnsononphoneap.jpg

After the Watergate scandal taught Richard Nixon the consequences of recording White House conversations none of his successors has dared to do it. But Nixon wasn't the first.

He got the idea from his predecessor Lyndon Johnson, who felt there was an obligation to allow historians to eventually eavesdrop on his presidency.

"They will provide history with the bark off," Johnson told his wife, Lady Bird.

The final batch of tapes released by the LBJ library covers 1968, and allows us to hear Johnson's private conversations as his Democratic Party tore itself apart over the question of Vietnam.

The 1968 convention, held in Chicago, was a complete shambles.

Tens of thousands of anti-war protesters clashed with Mayor Richard Daley's police, determined to force the party to reject Johnson's Vietnam war strategy.

As they taunted the police with cries of "The whole world is watching!" one man in particular was watching very closely.

Lyndon Baines Johnson was at his ranch in Texas, having announced five months earlier that he wouldn't seek a second term.

The president was appalled at the violence and although many of his staff sided with the students, and told the president the police were responsible for "disgusting abuse of police power," Johnson picked up the phone, ordered the dictabelt machine to start recording and congratulated Mayor Daley for his handling of the protest.

The president feared the convention delegates were about to reject his war policy and his chosen successor, Hubert Humphrey.

So he placed a series of calls to his staff at the convention to outline an astonishing plan. He planned to leave Texas and fly into Chicago.


He would then enter the convention and announce he was putting his name forward as a candidate for a second term.

It would have transformed the 1968 election. His advisers were sworn to secrecy and even Lady Bird did not know what her husband was considering.

On the White House tapes we learn that Johnson wanted to know from Daley how many delegates would support his candidacy. LBJ only wanted to get back into the race if Daley could guarantee the party would fall in line behind him.

They also discussed whether the president's helicopter, Marine One, could land on top of the Hilton Hotel to avoid the anti-war protesters.

Daley assured him enough delegates would support his nomination but the plan was shelved after the Secret Service warned the president they could not guarantee his safety.

The idea that Johnson might have been the candidate, and not Hubert Humphrey, is just one of the many secrets contained on the White House tapes.

They also shed light on a scandal that, if it had been known at the time, would have sunk the candidacy of Republican presidential nominee, Richard Nixon.

By the time of the election in November 1968, LBJ had evidence Nixon had sabotaged the Vietnam war peace talks - or, as he put it, that Nixon was guilty of treason and had "blood on his hands".

The BBC's former Washington correspondent Charles Wheeler learned of this in 1994 and conducted a series of interviews with key Johnson staff, such as defence secretary Clark Clifford, and national security adviser Walt Rostow.

WE NOW KNOW
-After the Viet Cong's Tet offensive, White House doves persuaded Johnson to end the war
-Johnson loathed Senator Bobby Kennedy but the tapes show he was genuinely devastated by his assassination
-He feared vice-president Hubert Humphrey would go soft on Vietnam if elected president
-The BBC's Charles Wheeler would have been under FBI surveillance when he met administration officials in 1968
-In 1971 Nixon made huge efforts to find a file containing everything Johnson knew in 1968 about Nixon's skulduggery
-But by the time the tapes were declassified in 2008 all the main protagonists had died, including Wheeler.

Now, for the first time, the whole story can be told.

It begins in the summer of 1968. Nixon feared a breakthrough at the Paris Peace talks designed to find a negotiated settlement to the Vietnam war, and he knew this would derail his campaign.

He therefore set up a clandestine back-channel involving Anna Chennault, a senior campaign adviser.

At a July meeting in Nixon's New York apartment, the South Vietnamese ambassador was told Chennault represented Nixon and spoke for the campaign. If any message needed to be passed to the South Vietnamese president, Nguyen Van Thieu, it would come via Chennault.

In late October 1968 there were major concessions from Hanoi which promised to allow meaningful talks to get underway in Paris - concessions that would justify Johnson calling for a complete bombing halt of North Vietnam. This was exactly what Nixon feared.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/66376000/jpg/_66376457_ap454020238150.jpg
The Paris peace talks may have ended years earlier, if it had not been for Nixon's subterfuge


Chennault was despatched to the South Vietnamese embassy with a clear message: the South Vietnamese government should withdraw from the talks, refuse to deal with Johnson, and if Nixon was elected, they would get a much better deal.

So on the eve of his planned announcement of a halt to the bombing, Johnson learned the South Vietnamese were pulling out.

He was also told why. The FBI had bugged the ambassador's phone and a transcripts of Anna Chennault's calls were sent to the White House. In one conversation she tells the ambassador to "just hang on through election".

Johnson was told by Defence Secretary Clifford that the interference was illegal and threatened the chance for peace.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/66411000/jpg/_66411436_nixonvietnamgetty.jpg
Nixon went on to become president and eventually signed a Vietnam peace deal in 1973

In a series of remarkable White House recordings we can hear Johnson's reaction to the news.

In one call to Senator Richard Russell he says: "We have found that our friend, the Republican nominee, our California friend, has been playing on the outskirts with our enemies and our friends both, he has been doing it through rather subterranean sources. Mrs Chennault is warning the South Vietnamese not to get pulled into this Johnson move."

He orders the Nixon campaign to be placed under FBI surveillance and demands to know if Nixon is personally involved.

When he became convinced it was being orchestrated by the Republican candidate, the president called Senator Everett Dirksen, the Republican leader in the Senate to get a message to Nixon.

The president knew what was going on, Nixon should back off and the subterfuge amounted to treason.


Publicly Nixon was suggesting he had no idea why the South Vietnamese withdrew from the talks. He even offered to travel to Saigon to get them back to the negotiating table.

Johnson felt it was the ultimate expression of political hypocrisy but in calls recorded with Clifford they express the fear that going public would require revealing the FBI were bugging the ambassador's phone and the National Security Agency (NSA) was intercepting his communications with Saigon.

So they decided to say nothing.

The president did let Humphrey know and gave him enough information to sink his opponent. But by then, a few days from the election, Humphrey had been told he had closed the gap with Nixon and would win the presidency. So Humphrey decided it would be too disruptive to the country to accuse the Republicans of treason, if the Democrats were going to win anyway.

Nixon ended his campaign by suggesting the administration war policy was in shambles. They couldn't even get the South Vietnamese to the negotiating table.

He won by less than 1% of the popular vote.

Once in office he escalated the war into Laos and Cambodia, with the loss of an additional 22,000 American lives, before finally settling for a peace agreement in 1973 that was within grasp in 1968.

The White House tapes, combined with Wheeler's interviews with key White House personnel, provide an unprecedented insight into how Johnson handled a series of crises that rocked his presidency. Sadly, we will never have that sort of insight again.

Listen to the Archive On 4 programme: Wheeler: The Final Word, on BBC Radio 4 at 20.00 GMT on Saturday or for seven days afterwards on the BBC iPlayer.

ELVIS
03-19-2013, 09:46 AM
All this stuff does is lend credence to current cuntspiracies...


:elvis:

Seshmeister
03-19-2013, 10:38 AM
I don't think you have had an evil genius like Nixon in the Whitehouse since Nixon although Cheney comes close...

ELVIS
03-19-2013, 10:57 AM
Can you really link the evils of government to specific individuals ??

FORD
03-19-2013, 12:32 PM
Can you really link the evils of government to specific individuals ??

Yes....

The BCE. Which includes Nixon.

FORD
03-19-2013, 12:36 PM
It's great that the BBC and other "mainstream" media sources are starting to wake up to this, but some of us knew about these things years ago.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9bRRr_cW3I

ELVIS
03-19-2013, 02:10 PM
Mainstream media isn't waking up to shit...

Don't fool yourself...

FORD
03-19-2013, 03:22 PM
Mainstream media isn't waking up to shit...

Don't fool yourself...

Can't get much more mainstream than the BBC....

Thing is, it's easy to admit that Nixon committed treason, because he's dead and burning in Hell, so he can't be prosecuted on Earth.

Odds are that most of the people who helped Nixon commit this treason are also dead and burning in Hell. Poppy Bush may be the one exception. I'm not sure what his role in this specific Vietnam treason was, but it's very similar to the "October Surprise" that he and Bill Casey pulled off with the Iranians in 1980 to extend the hostage crisis, so he probably was behind this as well.

But we all know that bastard is never going to trial.... at least not in this life. :(

I predict that once Poppy is dead, we might suddenly get revelations about all kinds of things. Iran Contra, Bay of Pigs, maybe even the Kennedy assassinations. As long as nobody is alive that can be prosecuted for it, there's no reason for them to hide the truth anymore.

Seshmeister
03-19-2013, 06:26 PM
Can't get much more mainstream than the BBC....

.

They just have strict rules for non bias and having good evidence and sources.

This can be annoying sometimes but it's so much better than having to triple check that so called news stations aren't just making shit up which is very time consuming.

ELVIS
03-19-2013, 06:30 PM
When I say mainstream media, I'm not talking about foreign sources...

Nickdfresh
03-19-2013, 06:55 PM
They just have strict rules for non bias and having good evidence and sources.

This can be annoying sometimes but it's so much better than having to triple check that so called news stations aren't just making shit up which is very time consuming.

When I say mainstream media, I'm not talking about foreign sources...

You sure aren't talking about the dumb shit you peddle here either, dolt...

FORD
03-19-2013, 06:58 PM
When I say mainstream media, I'm not talking about foreign sources...

So does it count if it's an "American" network owned by an Australian con man and a Saudi terrorist funder? (FAUX Noize)

Or what about a Russian owned network with all American hosts? (RT)

Or Al Jazeera buying a network from Al Gore, for that matter? (Current)

What does it take to be considered "mainstream", in your opinion?

Hardrock69
03-19-2013, 09:23 PM
http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?67956-New-Evidence-Reveals-Depths-of-Treason-and-Treachery-of-Watergate-and-Iran-Contra

ELVIS
03-19-2013, 10:33 PM
What does it take to be considered "mainstream", in your opinion?

FOX

CNN

ABC

CBS


Did I miss one ??

ELVIS
03-19-2013, 10:36 PM
You sure aren't talking about the dumb shit you peddle here either, dolt...

Shaddup...

And like you "triple check" news sources...

Tell the world another one, jackass...

FORD
03-19-2013, 10:57 PM
FOX

CNN

ABC

CBS


Did I miss one ??

Again, FAUX is owned by an Australian criminal and a Saudi terrorist funder.

CNN is owned by AOL, which is a CIA front. I guess that barely counts?

ABC is owned by Disney. I guess Disneyland is America.

CBS.... well, I think Sony still owns a piece of them.... but Viacom owns the rest.

And yeah, you left out NBC, which used to be owned by a "defense" contractor, but is now owned by an evil right wing cable monopoly.

ELVIS
03-19-2013, 11:02 PM
I don't care who owns them, I don't watch it...

ELVIS
03-19-2013, 11:04 PM
But those are the outlets that feed the Obama sheep and all of the other idiots who have no idea what's going on...

Nickdfresh
03-19-2013, 11:44 PM
FOX

CNN

ABC

CBS


Did I miss one ??

I don't have to triple-source anything, dicklick.

I don't have my tongue up some conspiracy fuckwit's asshole, dummy.

Continue on with your fantasies about having some innate knowledge, you sad cunt...

ELVIS
03-19-2013, 11:47 PM
I obviously have more knowledge than you on just about any subject, Mr. Wiki...

Nickdfresh
03-19-2013, 11:50 PM
LOL :biggrin:

LoungeMachine
03-19-2013, 11:58 PM
I obviously have more knowledge than you on just about any subject, Mr. Wiki...

Please name one......

:gulp:

lol

FORD
03-20-2013, 03:32 AM
Please name one......

:gulp:

lol

Cajun roadkill recipes?

ELVIS
03-20-2013, 10:14 AM
That's an easy one...

Nickdfresh
03-20-2013, 11:03 AM
Please name one......

:gulp:

lol

Selectively read parts of the "Good book?" The inconvenient, nonsensical parts not-so-much...

jhale667
03-20-2013, 11:09 AM
I obviously have more knowledge than you on just about any subject, Mr. Wiki...



:lol:

Terry
03-20-2013, 11:41 AM
The general outlay and information contained within the thread premise has been available for years, although obviously the recordings themselves haven't (most of the LBJ recordings I've heard that have been released tend to concentrate on the years of 1964 to 1966, and most of those are focused on Vietnam or the Warren Investigation).

Johnson used to talk a lot of shit, even to his close aides, via the telephone, so it's not really surprising to have recorded confirmations that he was considering making a dramatic appearance at the 1968 Democratic Convention in hopes that the mere sight of him would cause the crowd to move for his nomination on the spot. Indeed, they may well have. In terms of the dem party fat-cats, there were plenty who were willing to accept Humphrey / "LBJ-lite", so it's not outside the realm of realism to think they would have gone for LBJ himself. I never thought it was a given that RFK would have won the nomination had he not been assassinated.

The Nixon stuff (the secret talks and bugging of Nixon's plane) isn't new either, although recordings of Johnson, in effect, confirming these things certainly are.

Seshmeister
03-20-2013, 02:39 PM
I think it's odd/enlightening that Johnson and Nixon decide they want all their phone calls recorded for their historical legacy and then act like assholes on the phone.

I guess it just shows how detached these people in power get.

I bet if we had recordings of the founding fathers in private conversation there would be a lot less demi-worship of them... :)

LoungeMachine
03-20-2013, 02:45 PM
I think it's odd/enlightening that Johnson and Nixon decide they want all their phone calls recorded for their historical legacy and then act like assholes on the phone.

I guess it just shows how detached these people in power get.

I bet if we had recordings of the founding fathers in private conversation there would be a lot less demi-worship of them... :)

Back in the 70's there was a great TV series on the weekends called something like "You were there" which had these theater-like reinactments of famous meetings and conversations of the FF's.

:gulp:

There was zero production values, just 2-3 guys in powdered wigs talking. But even as a teenage history/political junkie, I found them fascinating.

Terry
03-20-2013, 08:26 PM
I think it's odd/enlightening that Johnson and Nixon decide they want all their phone calls recorded for their historical legacy and then act like assholes on the phone.

I guess it just shows how detached these people in power get.

I bet if we had recordings of the founding fathers in private conversation there would be a lot less demi-worship of them... :)

Well, in the case of presidents who recorded phone calls (which goes back as far as FDR, in terms of someone secretly making some sort of a transcribed record without the person the president was speaking to being aware of it), prior to Nixon they all believed that none of the physical recordings would ever be outside of their control. To a large extent, that proved to be true. Even with all the transgressions Nixon was involved in, he was still able to retain control of a lot of the materials even after Watergate as part of an agreement with the GSA.

Dr. Love
03-20-2013, 10:31 PM
Back in the 70's there was a great TV series on the weekends called something like "You were there" which had these theater-like reinactments of famous meetings and conversations of the FF's.

:gulp:

There was zero production values, just 2-3 guys in powdered wigs talking. But even as a teenage history/political junkie, I found them fascinating.

What were the 70s like, grandpa?

Angel
03-21-2013, 02:29 AM
What were the 70s like, grandpa?

Sex and drugs and rock n' roll, baby!

Seshmeister
03-21-2013, 06:57 AM
What were the 70s like, grandpa?

The main thing I remember is we didn't have a remote for the TV, it was hell.

Angel
03-21-2013, 09:14 AM
The main thing I remember is we didn't have a remote for the TV, it was hell.

My grandpa had a remote....thought it was so cool!

Seshmeister
03-21-2013, 09:21 AM
There was a story told by a friend of the royal family that when they first gave the Queen Mother a TV remote she tried it for a while and then said she would prefer to go back to using the bell...

ashstralia
03-21-2013, 09:39 AM
The main thing I remember is we didn't have a remote for the TV, it was hell.

did it matter, with only 2 channels? :D

ELVIS
03-21-2013, 09:42 AM
http://7reasons.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/size-piers-morgan-copy.gif
"There was a story told by a friend of the royal family that when they first gave the Queen Mother a TV remote she tried it for a while and then said she would prefer to go back to using the bell."



Haha...

What a delightful and amusing tale...

Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown...


:biggrin:

jacksmar
03-21-2013, 10:02 AM
Let me make this story and every other story about Nixon simple to understand: Nixon got Alger Hiss, a commie lib, a typical commie lib. And in typical commie lib fashion, the communist left has been playing catch up since.

The leftists have always been radical supporting and promoting socialism and did everything to get Nixon and still try to defame Nixon at least once each year to blur the commie lib left agenda.

Too bad we can’t dig up the Rosenbergs and kill them each year.
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4647413259175776&pid=15.1



"Socialism means slavery."

FORD
03-21-2013, 10:13 AM
The story is simpler than that....

Nixon was BCE from the beginning of his political career.

The BCE is the very definition of political corruption.

And as for your Commie paranoia... the BCE created them too, when Samuel P. Bush made sure that Nick Lenin and his boys had lots of Remington rifles to overthrow the Czar with.

And Joe Stalin returned the favor by making the KKKoch brothers daddy rich.

So who really supported communism? All your right wing icons, that's who.

jacksmar
03-21-2013, 10:30 AM
TARD, you worthless idiot. Keep the spin coming.

Do you have a picture of Whittaker Chambers's with a bulls eye target on your wall?

FORD
03-21-2013, 10:58 AM
TARD, you worthless idiot. Keep the spin coming.

Do you have a picture of Whittaker Chambers's with a bulls eye target on your wall?

No room.....

I'd have to take down my bullseye posters of Ayn Rand, the KKKochs, Rupert Murdoch, and the BCE to make room for him. And that's not gonna happen.