Teabaggers Roots go back to Dallas, 1963

[Satan]

Tea party has roots in the Dallas of 1963 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/tea-party-has-roots-in-the-dallas-of-1963/2013/11/20/9cb59b4c-3cf4-11e3-b6a9-da62c264f40e_story.html)
By Bill Minutaglio, Thursday, November 21, 10:37 AM

The president is a socialist. He is neutering the United States on the world stage. He is spending us into bankruptcy. He is hellbent on expanding national health care, which will surely lead to government death panels.

He is advancing big-government agendas everywhere from Main Street to Wall Street. And do we really know the truth about his personal history and religion?

Perhaps the man in the Oval Office should be impeached — even tried for treason.

If today’s extremist rhetoric sounds familiar, that’s because it is eerily, poignantly similar to the vitriol aimed squarely at John F. Kennedy during his presidency.

And just like today, Texans were leading what some of them saw as a moral crusade.

To find the very roots of the tea party of 2013, just go back to downtown Dallas in 1963, back to the months and weeks leading to the Kennedy assassination. It was where and when a deeply angry political polarization, driven by a band of zealots, burst wide open in America.

It was fueled then, as now, by billionaires opposed to federal oversight, rabid media, Bible-thumping preachers and extremist lawmakers who had moved far from their political peers. In 1963, that strident minority hijacked the civic dialogue and brewed the boiling, toxic environment waiting for Kennedy the day he died.

As he planned his trip to Dallas in November 1963, President Kennedy knew that hundreds of thousands across Texas adored him — or at least, respected the office he held. But he also knew that there was an increasingly hysterical fringe.

As Kennedy approached Dallas, he turned to his wife, Jacqueline. “We’re heading into nut country today,” he said.

Dallas Morning News publisher Ted Dealey had a loathing that became particularly deeply personal. At a social luncheon for Texas news executives in the State Dining Room of the White House, Dealey berated Kennedy to his face: “We need a man on horseback to lead this nation — and many people in Texas and the Southwest think that you are riding Caroline’s tricycle.”

Back in Dallas, Dealey ordered his reporters to investigate whether Kennedy had been married to another woman and whether the Kennedy dynasty had somehow erased evidence of that marriage.

Not far away in downtown Dallas, oil billionaire H.L. Hunt was pouring millions into a ceaseless anti-Kennedy radio campaign; it was the dawn of extremist radio in the nation. Hunt’s program, “Life Line,” reached 10 million listeners a day with its scorching attacks against “the mistaken,” the term Hunt’s announcers used to describe the president’s supporters.

When Kennedy proposed Medicare to provide health care for the elderly, Hunt’s shows warned that government death panels would follow: “a package which would literally make the president of the United States a medical czar with potential life-or-death power over every man, woman and child in the country.”

Hunt’s pastor in Dallas was the thundering W.A. Criswell, head of the largest Baptist congregation in the country. Criswell was deeply suspicious of the president’s Catholic religion, and he assailed Kennedy’s candidacy as a possible plot that would undermine America’s true Christian values.

Dallas was represented in Congress by an eloquent, Ivy League-educated ideologue regarded by some as the most extreme politician in Washington. Bruce Alger had cast the lone “no” vote against a federal program to provide free surplus milk to needy children. Even among his conservative peers, Alger was considered on the outer edge.

There was also Maj. Gen. Edwin A. Walker, the commander who had been hailed as a hero for breaking the grip of segregation in Arkansas’ capital; he led the bayonet-carrying troops who escorted African-American students to the doors of a Little Rock high school and kept order in the streets afterwards. Within four years, Walker had been relieved of his command by Kennedy’s defense secretary, Robert S. McNamara, after he was accused of trying to brainwash his troops with ultra-right-wing propaganda. The defrocked Walker moved to Dallas and was welcomed by the mayor in a grand public ceremony.

Walker promoted anti-federal agendas as well as what were once quaintly called “Southern traditions.” He made national headlines by instigating bloody riots against James Meredith’s brave attempts to integrate the University of Mississippi.

Many historians now agree that the blind absolutism of these powerful men of Dallas in the early 1960s has been discredited.

But here we are in 2013 and the echo is painfully clear:

The ad hominem attacks against a “socialist president.” The howling broadcasters. The mega-rich men from Texas funding the political action campaigns. There is even another charismatic, Ivy-educated ideologue: Sen. Ted Cruz would have been quite comfortable in Dallas 1963.

In the days leading to Kennedy’s fateful hour in Dallas, the city experienced one dark moment after another. Swastikas were plastered on the high-end emporium Neiman Marcus. A bomb threat was made during a visit by the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. A cross was burned on the lawn of a Holocaust survivor. U.N. Ambassador Adlai E. Stevenson II, in town for a speech, fled for his life after being surrounded by a spitting mob.

It all occurred in a place where a few powerful people had marched far from the political center and erected a firewall against reasoned debate.

Fifty years after Kennedy’s death, it is as if nothing has changed. As the nation continues to sift for meaning in his tragedy, this is the most aching lesson of all.

Bill Minutaglio is a University of Texas journalism professor and the author of “First Son: George W. Bush and the Bush Crime Family Dynasty.” He and Steven L. Davis are the authors of “Dallas 1963” (2013, Twelve Books), from which this article is adapted.

[Satan]

Fred KKKoch's "John Birch Society" had these posted all over Dallas in the days preceding JFK's ill-fated journey to the city......

http://i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm407/therealestbiz/kennedy-wanted-for-treason.jpg

[Satan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVfeLavkFso

[jacksmar]

Another bullshit attempt to turn tragedies into the service of leftism.

Lee Harvey Oswald was a Marxist and not a product of right-wing Dallas.
The Soviets were glad he left their worker's paradise.

If Oswald were alive today, he probably would have wound up ghost writing the Kenyan Houseboy’s "Dreams of My Father."

[Satan]

Lee Harvey Oswald was a patsy, and at best, a low level dupe of the BCE/CIA. In either case, he was no "lone nut gunman".

And even if he were, that doesn't negate one word of the above article.

[jacksmar]

Lee Harvey Oswald was a patsy, and at best, a low level dupe of the BCE/CIA. In either case, he was no "lone nut gunman".

And even if he were, that doesn't negate one word of the above article.

Yeah.........um............a communist never murders.

The leftists love to blame Dallas for the death of JFK but they never blame Los Angeles for the death of RFK. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm........


So have a beer with JFK and LHO and figure out. Unless you're not really satan. See, the great Satan hisself is red and scaly with a bifurcated tail, and he carries a hay fork.

[Seshmeister]

Another bullshit attempt to turn tragedies into the service of leftism.

Lee Harvey Oswald was a Marxist and not a product of right-wing Dallas.
The Soviets were glad he left their worker's paradise.



The Russians thought he was a lone nut as did his teenage psychiatric tests. The only thing he was decent at was he was a good marksman...

[Satan]

Yeah.........um............a communist never murders.

Not so. Joe Stalin and Pol Pot racked up some impressive numbers, for example. But poor old Lee ain't even remotely comparable to those two. And you don't even know why he went to Russia in the first place.


The leftists love to blame Dallas for the death of JFK but they never blame Los Angeles for the death of RFK.

No, I blame Thane Eugene Caesar, a BCE hitman, for the death of RFK. In that case, it actually WAS a lone gunman (the MK Ultra zombie Sirhan was physically incapable of firing the fatal shot, which was at point blank range behind Bobby's right ear)



So have a beer with JFK and LHO and figure out. Unless you're not really satan. See, the great Satan hisself is red and scaly with a bifurcated tail, and he carries a hay fork.

You really want to invite those two to the same party? Well, when you arrive in Hell, go right ahead. But I think I'll pass.......

[Satan]

The Russians thought he was a lone nut as did his teenage psychiatric tests. The only thing he was decent at was he was a good marksman...

Calling Oswald a "good marksman" doesn't really mean anything. He was about as good as anybody else in the Marines at that time. Not to mention the rifle he allegedly had was a low end piece of crap that wasn't really capable of doing what the dragonshit Warren Commission report claims he did with it.

[Kristy]

The only thing he was decent at was he was a good marksman...

With a Carcano 38? Very low end. Even a pickle-barrel made Mauser is a much better weapon. I have personally fired that rifle and can tell you they are the most inaccurate piece of shit next to an AK - particularity at the range that Oswald allegedly fired it.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/6/63/CarcanoM38CavCarbine.jpg/500px-CarcanoM38CavCarbine.jpg

[Seshmeister]

I don't like the use of the word patsy that you always get about Oswald because it implies he was somehow not guilty.

It's not a popular standpoint with the JFK conspiracy industry but the evidence against him is overwhelming.

1) He has the perfect psychiatric background and reports to be a lone nut gunman
2) He was found to be an excellent shot in the marines
3) Earlier in the year he purchases a rifle and tries to assassinate an anti communist retired general
4) He goes to work at the book depository and then disappears during and after the shooting, the murder weapon, his rifle is found at the scene.
5) People see a guy who looks like him shooting at the motorcade from the depository
6) He gets a taxi away from the scene for the first time in his life, the equivalent in those days of one of us getting a helicopter
7) When challenged by a cop because he fits that description of the shooter he kills him.

You would need to be a fuck of a lawyer to get anyone off of that.

Whether someone put him up to it is hard to prove one way or the other but he didn't seem to talk to many other people or go out so its difficult to see who or how.

There is plenty of why but not much else.

Also worth noting that the mob and the CIA tried over 20 times to assassinate Castro yet managed the perfect crime with JFK first time?

[evilletwin]

Lee Harvey Oswald was a patsy, and at best, a low level dupe of the BCE/CIA. In either case, he was no "lone nut gunman".


And even if he were, that doesn't negate one word of the above article.


A new documentary showed the bullet that hit JFK in the head came from a hungover secret service agent. He shot him by mistake. Whether Lee Harvey actually fired is dubious - the rifle was a piece of Italian junk - so unlikely.

[Satan]

I don't like the use of the word patsy that you always get about Oswald because it implies he was somehow not guilty.

Patsy was the term Oswald used himself. Right before known BCE puppet Jack Ruby shot him in the gut.


It's not a popular standpoint with the JFK conspiracy industry but the evidence against him is overwhelming.

1) He has the perfect psychiatric background and reports to be a lone nut gunman
2) He was found to be an excellent shot in the marines
3) Earlier in the year he purchases a rifle and tries to assassinate an anti communist retired general
4) He goes to work at the book depository and then disappears during and after the shooting, the murder weapon, his rifle is found at the scene.
5) People see a guy who looks like him shooting at the motorcade from the depository
6) He gets a taxi away from the scene for the first time in his life, the equivalent in those days of one of us getting a helicopter
7) When challenged by a cop because he fits that description of the shooter he kills him.

You would need to be a fuck of a lawyer to get anyone off of that.

Apparently the BCE/CIA didn't think the case was strong enough.... so they sent in their old pal Jack Ruby to make sure a trial was never necessary.


Whether someone put him up to it is hard to prove one way or the other but he didn't seem to talk to many other people or go out so its difficult to see who or how.

here is plenty of why but not much else.

Also worth noting that the mob and the CIA tried over 20 times to assassinate Castro yet managed the perfect crime with JFK first time?

I'll bet if Castro's security team had changed his motorcade route and told his security detail to stand down, and then brought his Castromobile to nearly a complete stop right in front of a BCE hitman, they would have been successful.

[Satan]

A new documentary showed the bullet that hit JFK in the head came from a hungover secret service agent. He shot him by mistake.

Dragonshit.

[Kristy]

A new documentary showed the bullet that hit JFK in the head came from a hungover secret service agent. He shot him by mistake. Whether Lee Harvey actually fired is dubious - the rifle was a piece of Italian junk - so unlikely.

Let me guess, Some Jesse Ventura/Alex Jone$ produced "documentary" upon which it's all linked back to Obama?

[Terry]

Oswald did it.

Alone.

When I strip away the rumor, conjecture, inuuendo and supposition utilized to suggest alternative scenarios and reflect on what is fact and actually provable it is clear Oswald acted alone.

[ELVIS]

1) He has the perfect psychiatric background and reports to be a lone nut gunman
2) He was found to be an excellent shot in the marines
3) Earlier in the year he purchases a rifle and tries to assassinate an anti communist retired general
4) He goes to work at the book depository and then disappears during and after the shooting, the murder weapon, his rifle is found at the scene.
5) People see a guy who looks like him shooting at the motorcade from the depository
6) He gets a taxi away from the scene for the first time in his life, the equivalent in those days of one of us getting a helicopter
7) When challenged by a cop because he fits that description of the shooter he kills him.



8)Eye-witnesses put Oswald in the Cafeteria of the Texas Schoolbook Depository at the precise time the first shot hit JFK...

[ELVIS]

it is clear Oswald acted alone.

Bullllllllllllllcrap!!!

And to think I clicked on this thread because I saw that you posted in it...


:biggrin:

[Seshmeister]

8)Eye-witnesses put Oswald in the Cafeteria of the Texas Schoolbook Depository at the precise time the first shot hit JFK...

So that explains him running away and then shooting cops afterwards?

[Seshmeister]

I thoroughly recommend trying the simulation

http://www.fileplanet.com/192027/download/JFK-Reloaded-v1.1-(Free-Game)

Put all the accuracy settings to max, it was written a while ago when PCs were slower than your phone is now.

I'm not saying it's completely faultlessly accurate but it does give you a good idea of the speeds and the distances. The vulnerability of the target in modern terms is unthinkable. Also you have the VP a couple of cars behind in an open top too?

It looks like hitting the people in the presidents car would be pretty straightforward. after that it's down to luck. I think Oswald just got lucky.

It's a terrible thing to admit but it's actually quite good fun, for maximum carnage initially aim for the drivers and remember to allow for the bullet drop...

[SunisinuS]

A new documentary showed the bullet that hit JFK in the head came from a hungover secret service agent. He shot him by mistake. Whether Lee Harvey actually fired is dubious - the rifle was a piece of Italian junk - so unlikely.


Did a search for that referenced and still have not found a doc with that spin....got a link?

The 1992 book as of course been out 11 years but have not found the doc you mentioned.

My favorite version of events is of course Tikka to Ride:

[Seshmeister]

Patsy was the term Oswald used himself. Right before known BCE puppet Jack Ruby shot him in the gut.

Apparently the BCE/CIA didn't think the case was strong enough.... so they sent in their old pal Jack Ruby to make sure a trial was never necessary.



Ruby was a small time hustler not a mobster as people try an portray him never mind a CIA operative.

Judging by his statements and letters afterwards he seems to have been nuts too.

[Zing!]

The 1992 book as of course been out 11 years but have not found the doc you mentioned

I saw it on the Reelz channel - called "JFK: The Smoking Gun." Pretty interesting and not any more unlikely than LHO shooting alone.

[Satan]

Documentation of Ruby's long association with the BCE.....

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/RubyandNixon.jpg

[Nickdfresh]

Calling Oswald a "good marksman" doesn't really mean anything. He was about as good as anybody else in the Marines at that time. Not to mention the rifle he allegedly had was a low end piece of crap that wasn't really capable of doing what the dragonshit Warren Commission report claims he did with it.


With a Carcano 38? Very low end. Even a pickle-barrel made Mauser is a much better weapon. I have personally fired that rifle and can tell you they are the most inaccurate piece of shit next to an AK - particularity at the range that Oswald allegedly fired it.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/6/63/CarcanoM38CavCarbine.jpg/500px-CarcanoM38CavCarbine.jpg

The Carcanos were not very good military rifles overall, as not much the Italian military had in WWII could be called "good." But it's all relative. Firstly, a rifle can only be accurate if sited in properly by the shooter. You can plink at shit all day, but If the rifle wasn't sited into your own eyes and zeroed properly, you won't hit shit with them regardless of their accuracy. The Carcanos were not great, but that's compared to the other service rifles at the time like the German Mauser, the American M-1 Garand/Springfield, and the excellent Lee Enfield. That doesn't mean a properly used weapon wasn't more than serviceable enough, they killed more than a few Commonwealth and U.S. soldiers in WWII. Secondly, Oswald's shot wasn't particularly hard nor at long range and the shot and Oswald's purported actions were replicated by an Australian mercenary working with a Discovery Channel crew and showed to be far more plausible than the silly second shooter/Corsican Mafia, etc. conspiracy shit. I believe the weapon he used did jam in one of the simulations, but otherwise he had little trouble obliterating the JFK melon driving in the same distance and angle as JFK was from Oswald with multiple shots...

[Nickdfresh]

A new documentary showed the bullet that hit JFK in the head came from a hungover secret service agent. He shot him by mistake. Whether Lee Harvey actually fired is dubious - the rifle was a piece of Italian junk - so unlikely.


The speculation is that a Secret Service agent was toting a then rather new M-16 rifle, but there isn't much evidence to support it. And again, "Italian junk" is very relative. The standard Jim Garrison condemnation of the Carcano as "junk" comes from chauvinistic and nationalistic notions of American and Commonwealth soldiers in WWII that tended to look down on anything Italian. But I assure you, the high velocity and very unstable 6.5mm bullet fired by the Carcano is quite capable of doing horrific ballistic damage that happened to JFK that day...

[Satan]

Poppy Bush observing the aftermath of the operation he supervised......

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/images/bushtsbd.jpg


When asked where he was on 11/22/63, this treasonous terrorist training heroin smuggler - unlike anybody else alive on planet Earth and more than 3 years old at the time - says "I can't remember".

Well, the picture says otherwise, George.

[Nickdfresh]

Patsy was the term Oswald used himself. Right before known BCE puppet Jack Ruby shot him in the gut.



I hear most guys in prison are also "innocent." And he may have been a "patsy," but he was also a cop killer that opened fire without much hesitation...

[Seshmeister]

I don't think it looks like him.

The evidence for him being a CIA operative at that time never mind being involved is just supposition based on guesses built on wishful thinking.

It's like the Obama birther thing..

[Satan]

I don't think it looks like him.

The evidence for him being a CIA operative at that time never mind being involved is just supposition based on guesses built on wishful thinking.

It's like the Obama birther thing..

To the contrary, the boats used in the Bay of Pigs CIA operation were named the "Houston", the "Zapata" and the "Barbara J".

Houston was Poppy's alleged hometown, and base of his cover, Zapata petroleum. And Barbara J. Crowley Pierce Bush..... well we all know who that is.

Poppy supervised the Bay of Pigs, and he supervised Dallas. Unfortunately, only one of those operations was a failure. http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d085.gif

[Satan]

Also this FBI memo, from the office of J. Edna Hoover herself, specifically mentions "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency".......

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/bushmemoclear.gif

[Nickdfresh]

To the contrary, the boats used in the Bay of Pigs CIA operation were named the "Houston", the "Zapata" and the "Barbara J".

Houston was Poppy's alleged hometown, and base of his cover, Zapata petroleum. And Barbara J. Crowley Pierce Bush..... well we all know who that is.

Poppy supervised the Bay of Pigs, and he supervised Dallas. Unfortunately, only one of those operations was a failure. http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d085.gif


Yeah, um, but...

Even though a lot of the Anti-Castro activity was started under Ike, JFK approved the Bay of Pigs operation...

[Kristy]

The Carcanos were not very good military rifles overall, as not much the Italian military had in WWII could be called "good." But it's all relative. Firstly, a rifle can only be accurate if sited in properly by the shooter. You can plink at shit all day, but If the rifle wasn't sited into your own eyes and zeroed properly, you won't hit shit with them regardless of their accuracy. The Carcanos were not great, but that's compared to the other service rifles at the time like the German Mauser, the American M-1 Garand/Springfield, and the excellent Lee Enfield. That doesn't mean a properly used weapon wasn't more than serviceable enough, they killed more than a few Commonwealth and U.S. soldiers in WWII. Secondly, Oswald's shot wasn't particularly hard nor at long range and the shot and Oswald's purported actions were replicated by an Australian mercenary working with a Discovery Channel crew and showed to be far more plausible than the silly second shooter/Corsican Mafia, etc. conspiracy shit. I believe the weapon he used did jam in one of the simulations, but otherwise he had little trouble obliterating the JFK melon driving in the same distance and angle as JFK was from Oswald with multiple shots...

Couldn't help yourself, could you? For one, have you ever fired this weapon? I have. It's a pile of shit for a mass production rifle. The movable mechanisms were unreliable for battle and two, the half-ass Italian manufacturing sub-par; shit stock, sloppy bolt action, crappy machine boring. So let me tell you what that means: a inaccurate rifle as a whole; firing a rifle with accurate results is much more than just simple siting of a target. I've fired Mausers, too also a mass-production weapon built in several places throughout Europe (the Czech ones being the most solid) but unlike this piece of shit, it was designed with combat environments in mind. My uncle owned several that he built from "pickle barrel" parts and they fired with greater accuracy with little forethought as if one was in battle where his life deepened upon his weapon. I have no doubt a Carcano ended up costing the life of the one handling it than using it. Total pile of shit.

Any weapon will kill if used for its sole intended purpose - even a Carcano and quite possibly a Carcano 38 put a bullet in Kennedy's skull but it would take far more than luck to do it again with a second bullet that quick. Sloppy, sloppy bolt action even for a new one.

[Kristy]

Listen @1:47

Carcano is a piece of shit.

[Satan]

Here's irony for you...... just flipping through the channels on HellCable.... stumbled across the trash TV show "Access Hollywood" and they were talking about the JFK murder. And of course, they were pushing the Oswald fiction.

Why is this ironic? The program is hosted by one Billy BUSH. And yes, he is one of THOSE Bushes. Specifically the son of Jonathan Bush, the corrupt banker who helped Poppy (his brother) with the BCCI terrorist banking scam.

[Kristy]

Well, the picture says otherwise, George.

I have to admit that is interesting - if true.

[Kristy]

Here's irony for you...... just flipping through the channels on HellCable...

Don't you just call it "XFinity" like the rest of us?

[Kristy]

Jackie was quite fuckable for an Illuminati Blueblood

http://cryandhowl.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/jackiekennedy.jpg

[Seshmeister]

I wonder what she found so attractive about billionaire Aristotle Onassis...

http://www.thedarksideoffame.com/images/AristotleOnassis_006.jpg

[Kristy]

I'm sure the word "billionaire" might have something to do with it.

[evilletwin]

Let me guess, Some Jesse Ventura/Alex Jone$ produced "documentary" upon which it's all linked back to Obama?

Jesus, not everything is a conspiracy in your land of the free and the brave. As a Brit, being impartial to Yank Politics, I think I have a reasonable amount of intelligence to discern what is (or at least looks) real. I'm no Obama fan, I think he's a joke -- but I'm certainly no GOP fan either, I think one is as bad as the other for America. Daddy Bush with puppet son ruined your economy with his pandering to the cor-po-rats, and Barrack is merely a Republican in a bad suit with ultra bad policies and race dividing ethics (Zimmerman was a classic, he on his high horse doing a Sharpton, getting a police captain fired for doing his job, while failing to mention that three brutal black on white murders happened that exact day. So, I think the documentary I saw, with previously unreleased footage, showing the SS guy putting a hole in JFK's head, as he was so hungover, fumbling to get a shot off at the Tower, he loosed a round into the guy's head. Accidents do happen. All involved were threatened to keep quiet over the incident or else. . . Now, did Oswald fire the 2nd bullet that hit JFK in the shoulder, that brought him flying back and his head getting in the way of a hungover agent who fired the kill shot? The documentary says yes, I seriously doubt it. They got the best sniper in the States to take the shot with the same gun LHO used, and he only made a direct hit on the third attempt. Unlikely Oswald was a shooter. Maybe, who knows. But if he worked for the CIA, KGB, or whoever would want JFK dead - they would hardly issue the guy with a weapon that basically a pop gun would have more accuracy. Did he act alone? No personal history showed he would do such a thing. That's all I was saying.

[Satan]

Except the Secret Service agent with the rifle was in the car behind Kennedy, and the kill shot was clearly fired from the front, with the part of JFK's skull that was blown off, being the obvious exit wound.

So the kill shot was not fired by either Oswald or a drunk/hungover SS guy. It was fired by a BCE/CIA assassin in the area which has commonly beome known as "the grassy knoll"

[Kristy]

Jesus, not everything is a conspiracy in your land of the free and the brave. As a Brit, being impartial to Yank Politics

One, fuck you you self-entitled whiny limey.


I think I have a reasonable amount of intelligence to discern what is (or at least looks) real. I'm no Obama fan, I think he's a joke -- but I'm certainly no GOP fan either, I think one is as bad as the other for America. Daddy Bush with puppet son ruined your economy with his pandering to the cor-po-rats, and Barrack is merely a Republican in a bad suit with ultra bad policies and race dividing ethics (Zimmerman was a classic, he on his high horse doing a Sharpton, getting a police captain fired for doing his job, while failing to mention that three brutal black on white murders happened that exact day.

Okay, sure, totally relevant to the Kennedy assassination no doubt. Some intelligence, indeed.

[
So, I think the documentary I saw, with previously unreleased footage, showing the SS guy putting a hole in JFK's head, as he was so hungover, fumbling to get a shot off at the Tower, he loosed a round into the guy's head. Accidents do happen. All involved were threatened to keep quiet over the incident or else. . . Now, did Oswald fire the 2nd bullet that hit JFK in the shoulder, that brought him flying back and his head getting in the way of a hungover agent who fired the kill shot? The documentary says yes, I seriously doubt it. They got the best sniper in the States to take the shot with the same gun LHO used, and he only made a direct hit on the third attempt. Unlikely Oswald was a shooter. Maybe, who knows. But if he worked for the CIA, KGB, or whoever would want JFK dead - they would hardly issue the guy with a weapon that basically a pop gun would have more accuracy. Did he act alone? No personal history showed he would do such a thing. That's all I was saying.

What you're saying contradicts your original statement

[Seshmeister]

Did he act alone? No personal history showed he would do such a thing. That's all I was saying.

There could hardly be more personal history - he was textbook lone nut shooter.

[Seshmeister]

I just listened to Oliver Stone give an interview about the 50th anniversary and he's saying the key bit of evidence, the one that is indisputable is that Kennedy was hit from two sides and that the Zebrudder film with his head going backwards towards Oswald categorically proves this.

Bizarre after all these years, I guess some people just get absorbed into these things and can't take a step back to look at any other evidence after a while.

[vandeleur]

That was more interesting than the whole 8hr cut of JFK :D

[vandeleur]

Pen and teller should fight crime

[Seshmeister]

There are 2 things you hear people say a lot about this, one that it was an impossibly difficult shot and secondly that Oswald was a poor shot.

I've found myself saying that before but I don't know where this came from.

When you check the facts the shot was less than 100 yards away with a telescopic sight and Oswald scored above average when his shooting was tested in the Marines. These are facts not opinions.

http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-4.html#walker

[Seshmeister]

That was more interesting than the whole 8hr cut of JFK :D

When I saw that I got pissed off. 'Back and to the left, back and to the left' oh shut the fuck up Costner. :)

I've never hunted but apparently it's an effect well known to those that do.

Anyway everyone knows that exit wounds are much bigger...

[evilletwin]

One, fuck you you self-entitled whiny limey.



Okay, sure, totally relevant to the Kennedy assassination no doubt. Some intelligence, indeed.

[

What you're saying contradicts your original statement


Lol, limey? Like, how old are you? Jesus lol, my grandfather used to be called that. If you must insult me, lose the outdated slogans, and call me a British cunt or something, lmfao. Actually dude, I'm Welsh/Irish not English, so Limey wouldn't be part of my description. Call me a Paddy fuck, leek eating, sheep shagging Brit instead.

Self entitlement? Fuck right off. Don't tar us all with Piers Morgan - you Yanks have him, you can keep him lol. We fucked him out out of here; the patronizing, irritating, politically correct, mother selling, soulless cunt. I can see you are all rights to bear arms - I AGREE. We're not all Piers, so relax. Dude, I'm ex British army living in Ireland FFS, I only have a license for a shot gun and small fire arms to protect myself - and that's only under cntroled conditions that I use the range, and keep all weapons on my property. I'm not allowed to own an auto in this country, or concealed, which I used to always carry in England. Trust me, I'm pro your amendment. I have fought alongside Yanks in Irac and Afghanistan, so ease up there bud. Where did I contradict myself by the way?

[Kristy]

So you're a paddy? Even worse. Fucking Irish.

[Kristy]

Pen and teller should fight crime

That was the gheyest shit I've ever seen. Notice how that F A T cunt is mock-firing the rifle as if the target was stationary? Two, a honey melon or what-the-fuck ever is not the same size of weight of Kennedy's skull and that the melon was also, you guessed it, stationary. How fortunate for that F A T fuck to ignore any laws of physics when it comes to shooting at a moving target. Three, the pill box hat was in bad taste. Fuck them.

[vandeleur]

Really , pill box hat is where you draw the line .

[evilletwin]

There are 2 things you hear people say a lot about this, one that it was an impossibly difficult shot and secondly that Oswald was a poor shot.

I've found myself saying that before but I don't know where this came from.

When you check the facts the shot was less than 100 yards away with a telescopic sight and Oswald scored above average when his shooting was tested in the Marines. These are facts not opinions.

http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-4.html#walker


I could not have made that shot in 3 with the equipment available to L.H.O if he was the shooter. I could shoot an apple off your head from a mile away -- I am, was, top of my class in sniper class in the Royal Marines. I have done multiple pressure kill shots in various situations in Ghost crew when I left the Marines. It is an impossible kill shot in the timer available to make with the tools available. Top guy in the States did it in three in assimilation - I did it in 5 using a similar bolt action, barely grazing a pumpkin we used in a moving jeep. No way, IMO, could L.H.O have made that shot. Taking Kentucky wind into consideration on a prehistoric sight with a relic bolt action -- no chance given the time. The doc that showed the secret service guy blow Kennedy's head off is the most plausible.

[Kristy]

Yes. When it comes to those two lame dog-and-pony Vegas act. They're a joke paid well to spew misleading propaganda for retards.

[evilletwin]

So you're a paddy? Even worse. Fucking Irish.

You failed to mention your heritage, coward.

At least I have an identity and a culture: what's yours, newborn? We founded your financially Chinese owned country, gave you a language, show some respect. Lol.

Are you for real, matey? What is your heritage? Too coward to tell me, huh? I bet your French.

[evilletwin]

Yes. When it comes to those two lame dog-and-pony Vegas act. They're a joke paid well to spew misleading propaganda for retards.

God, dumb me - I just sussed - you're a fucking bird! Jesus, no wonder you are so retarded. God, if I had known it was a dumb chick waffling I wouldn't have bothered replying - move along lack of male sized brain.

[Kristy]

You failed to mention your heritage, coward.

It was never asked, paddy faddy.


At least I have an identity and a culture: what's yours, newborn? We founded your financially Chinese owned country, gave you a language, show some respect. Lol.

Yeah, if rampant alcoholism is "culture" have at it. And you Irish didn't find shit apart from what you took away from the Italians when you came here in droves when you no longer wanted to live on potatoes.


Are you for real, matey? What is your heritage? Too coward to tell me, huh? I bet your French.

Yeah, I'm for real, you revisionist bag of shit. No wonder you hate the French, after all it was their navy that kicked the shit out of your (alleged) red coat ass.

[Kristy]

God, dumb me - I just sussed - you're a fucking bird! Jesus, no wonder you are so retarded. God, if I had known it was a dumb chick waffling I wouldn't have bothered replying - move along lack of male sized brain.
Dumb you = dumb Irish.

[Seshmeister]

It is an impossible kill shot in the timer available to make with the tools available. Top guy in the States did it in three in assimilation - I did it in 5 using a similar bolt action, barely grazing a pumpkin we used in a moving jeep. No way, IMO, could L.H.O have made that shot. Taking Kentucky wind into consideration on a prehistoric sight with a relic bolt action -- no chance given the time. The doc that showed the secret service guy blow Kennedy's head off is the most plausible.


Did you give yourself 8 seconds rather than the incorrect figure of 5 that many of these things are based on?

Did you allow for the fact that the car slowed down after the second shot while the driver braked to look and see what had happened?







Even if it was 1 in 50 that doesn't mean it didn't happen it just means he got lucky. This was not a mission designed with military precision, otherwise for a start he would have been given a better rifle.

[Zing!]

Did you give yourself 8 seconds rather than the incorrect figure of 5 that many of these things are based on?

Did you allow for the fact that the car slowed down after the second shot while the driver braked to look and see what had happened?

Even if it was 1 in 50 that doesn't mean it didn't happen it just means he got lucky. This was not a mission designed with military precision, otherwise for a start he would have been given a better rifle.

Guess Sesh used up his one sensible post over in the Obama drone thread. Oh well. He was on a roll there for about 5 seconds...

[Kristy]

This was not a mission designed with military precision, otherwise for a start he would have been given a better rifle.

God damn right.

[vandeleur]

He was on a roll there for about 5 seconds... I believe it was for 8 seconds :D

[ELVIS]

Military precision goes well beyond choice of rifle...

[evilletwin]

One, fuck you you self-entitled whiny limey.



Okay, sure, totally relevant to the Kennedy assassination no doubt. Some intelligence, indeed.

[

What you're saying contradicts your original statement

Chicken Licken - the great thing about being retired is you can speak your mind: When I joined SF, I had to to do a course of psychological training - basic training in reading your environment, people, language patterns etc. You shot your load on so many ways in a basic skirmish with me. (1) Not my fault daddy fucked off - so take it out on the universe. LOL, Scary how i know that, isn't it? Listen, u think you have it tough, world so against you - try seeing your friends shot to pieces in front of you. Try ha aving you body ripped apart from lung to toe with bullets. I operate on one lung. My right arm is fucked - I can barely move it without codeine these days. You think you have it hard, - I wanted to be a colonel. I nearly made Major in 2004 in Baghdad, before I got shot up, in a mission getting your boys out of a bad situation. I took rounds to my head and lungs - it killed my career, it killed three of my dearest friends in that firefight. I spent another 2 years learning how to fucking walk again. Quit your anger, matey.

[Kristy]

Chicken Licken - the great thing about being retired is you can speak your mind: When I joined SF, I had to to do a course of psychological training - basic training in reading your environment, people, language patterns etc. You shot your load on so many ways in a basic skirmish with me. (1) Not my fault daddy fucked off - so take it out on the universe. LOL, Scary how i know that, isn't it? Listen, u think you have it tough, world so against you - try seeing your friends shot to pieces in front of you. Try ha aving you body ripped apart from lung to toe with bullets. I operate on one lung. My right arm is fucked - I can barely move it without codeine these days. You think you have it hard, - I wanted to be a colonel. I nearly made Major in 2004 in Baghdad, before I got shot up, in a mission getting your boys out of a bad situation. I took rounds to my head and lungs - it killed my career, it killed three of my dearest friends in that firefight. I spent another 2 years learning how to fucking walk again. Quit your anger, matey.

Oh I see where you're going with this bland tripe. You lame sexist comments brought you no favors so now you're attempting the "psychological approach" to your rhetoric and when that doesn't work you go for the self-pity angle. I was right the first time: you are a whiner. Don't ever fucking tell me what to do with my anger, asshole.

[evilletwin]

One, fuck you you self-entitled whiny limey.



Okay, sure, totally relevant to the Kennedy assassination no doubt. Some intelligence, indeed.

[

What you're saying contradicts your original statement

Chicken Licken - the great thing about being retired is you can speak your mind: When I joined SF, I had to to do a course of psychological training - basic training in reading your environment, people, language patterns etc. You shot your load on so many ways in a basic skirmish with me. (1) Not my fault daddy fucked off - so take it out on the universe. LOL, Scary how i know that, isn't it? Listen, u think you have it tough, world so against you - try seeing your friends shot to pieces in front of you. Try ha aving you body ripped apart from lung to toe with bullets. I operate on one lung. My right arm is fucked - I can barely move it without codeine these days. You think you have it hard, - I wanted to be a colonel. I nearly made Major in 2004 in Baghdad, before I got shot up, in a mission getting your boys out of a bad situation. I took rounds to my head and lungs - it killed my career, it killed three of my dearest friends in that firefight. I spent another 2 years learning how to fucking walk again. Quit your anger, matey.

[evilletwin]

Oh I see where you're going with this bland tripe. You lame sexist comments brought you no favors so now you're attempting the "psychological approach" to your rhetoric and when that doesn't work you go for the self-pity angle. I was right the first time: you are a whiner. Don't ever fucking tell me what to do with my anger, asshole.

I can see u were raped by your father. That anger will give you cancer. Let it go, sister.

[evilletwin]

Kristy, u can't hate all of the time. I bet there is a really beautiful person in here. C'mon life throws us lemons - its how we rise from such events that shapes our character -- hey kid, I can see from your replies you are smart -- it can't be a;; that bad, can it?

[Kristy]

I can see u were raped by your father. That anger will give you cancer. Let it go, sister.

Again, sexism is your only defense. It only demonstrates to me how fucking pathetic your life really is.

[Satan]

Why do I get the feeling that our latest arrival isn't as "new" here as one might think?

Now which one of our perrenial trolls haven't we heard from in a while......

http://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/0902/pedobear-demotivational-poster-1234259147.png

[Seshmeister]

Before we end up with another conspiracy theory within a conspiracy theory thread, they are posting from Ireland.

[Satan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5hFMy4pTrs

[Satan]

When I saw that I got pissed off. 'Back and to the left, back and to the left' oh shut the fuck up Costner. :)

I've never hunted but apparently it's an effect well known to those that do.

Anyway everyone knows that exit wounds are much bigger...

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Witness-reports-of-head-wound.jpg

[Satan]

Just found this over at DU....

Now the guy posting this is no "liberal conspiracy nut". Truth is, he's an Obama apologist, false "democrat" DLC asshole, whom I don't agree with on much of anything. But I'd say he raises a relevant question here......



My only post on the JFK assassination
Let's posit that Oswald acted alone. That he fired three shots and those three shots account for all the wounds in Kennedy and Connolly.

Let's also posit that Jack Ruby acted alone. That nobody was behind his actions but himself.

Both points conceded for the sake of my post.


What possible "National Security" reason could there possibly be that would restrict the release of thousands of documents to the public?

Since both men acted alone, without the support or involvement of any foreign or domestic governmental agency ... then there is no logical explanation for keeping documents secret 50 years after the fact.

What National Security information could possibly be at stake here? Both men acted ALONE we are told. They weren't in league with anyone. So who or what is being protected with the secrecy?


You want he CTs to stop? Release all documents to the public with no redaction.

The USSR doesn't exist anymore. Castro is a senile old man. None of the Kennedy brothers are alive anymore. LBJ isn't alive anymore. None of the Mafia chieftains of the day are alive any more. Dulles and Hoover are dead too.

And even if any of them were alive, it would not matter since Oswald and Ruby acted alone we are told.


I am a firm believer in Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is usually the right one.

The simplest explanation for a government locking away files under the guise of "national security" is that there is something in the files that .... wait for it... threatens national security.

Two men acting alone, with no outside agency involved, 50 years ago, doesn't threaten national security in any way.

Release the files. That either shuts up the CTers or validates them.

No excuse not to.

[Satan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bb4DpejUUA

[Satan]

And now for the 21st century equivalent of those KKKoch funded John Birch wanted posters. You can bet this treasonous fuck is on the KKKoch payroll as well.........

http://i42.tinypic.com/2hxtx1i.jpg

[Kristy]

When I read shit as as this what truly scares me about these people is not their warped call to violence but their disillusion that brought them there. These are the same assholes that jack-whatever and Elvis associate with as being "beacons of freedom" in a land of fictional paranoia because they use Colonial terms as if that's all needed for self-entitlement. Their minds are so poisoned and distorted that anything goes in their book (as they make it up as they go along); bringing a loaded semi-automatic weapon to a rally is hardly the Constitutional ideal of a non-violent protest, publicly verbalizing unwarranted death threats to a U.S. President is also hardly patriotic and condemning other religions that don't gel with their own God is not freedom.

It's the proverbial example of the blind leading the perpetually stupid into a self-militant cult of death. None of them as far as I can see want freedom. They want power - power to freely abuse minorities, women, the ill, and most of all, the poor. They would rather see Obama murdered in cold blood than help their fellow man to a better quality of life while all the time cloaking their racist, misogynistic, xenophobic views under the guise of the Second Amendment only to cry foul and victimize themselves when someone with a educational background on history clearly points out their hatred. They are parasites of fear and self-interest. Their nature is predatory and aggressive. Their behavior is unpredictable and paranoid. They offer no hope for America because not one of them has any to give.

[Nickdfresh]

Chicken Licken - the great thing about being retired is you can speak your mind: When I joined SF, I had to to do a course of psychological training - basic training in reading your environment, people, language patterns etc. You shot your load on so many ways in a basic skirmish with me. (1) Not my fault daddy fucked off - so take it out on the universe. LOL, Scary how i know that, isn't it? Listen, u think you have it tough, world so against you - try seeing your friends shot to pieces in front of you. Try ha aving you body ripped apart from lung to toe with bullets. I operate on one lung. My right arm is fucked - I can barely move it without codeine these days. You think you have it hard, - I wanted to be a colonel. I nearly made Major in 2004 in Baghdad, before I got shot up, in a mission getting your boys out of a bad situation. I took rounds to my head and lungs - it killed my career, it killed three of my dearest friends in that firefight. I spent another 2 years learning how to fucking walk again. Quit your anger, matey.

So you're SAS?

[Nickdfresh]

Couldn't help yourself, could you?

Nope. :)


For one, have you ever fired this weapon? I have. It's a pile of shit for a mass production rifle. The movable mechanisms were unreliable for battle and two, the half-ass Italian manufacturing sub-par; shit stock, sloppy bolt action, crappy machine boring. So let me tell you what that means: a inaccurate rifle as a whole; firing a rifle with accurate results is much more than just simple siting of a target. I've fired Mausers, too also a mass-production weapon built in several places throughout Europe (the Czech ones being the most solid) but unlike this piece of shit, it was designed with combat environments in mind. My uncle owned several that he built from "pickle barrel" parts and they fired with greater accuracy with little forethought as if one was in battle where his life deepened upon his weapon. I have no doubt a Carcano ended up costing the life of the one handling it than using it. Total pile of shit.

Any weapon will kill if used for its sole intended purpose - even a Carcano and quite possibly a Carcano 38 put a bullet in Kennedy's skull but it would take far more than luck to do it again with a second bullet that quick. Sloppy, sloppy bolt action even for a new one.

I respect the fact you've fired it. But these weapons have a very spotty history with some seeing little real service to extremely worn examples used heavily in North Africa or the Balkans by bewildered, downtrodden Italian troops. They were not a great rifle and no one's favorite military long arm, but they were serviceable. As for mass production, they probably didn't have the best QC, but then we've gone from (mostly) bolt-action rifles that could reach out and touch someone at over 1000 meters provided the user could ever even see a target that far to "assault rifles" that maybe have a 500 meter max with combat ranges realistically at about 200 - 300 meters. You may well have been firing a rifle captured in the Western Deserts in 1940 and not well cared for under harsh conditions.

As for the Mauser, they were a far more popular rifle and lingered on into post-WWII with several companies making them. I recall about 15,000 of them were found in a warehouse in Eastern Germany sometime in the 1990's still in their factory packages and never fired. However, if you compared a late war one made in Germany circa 1944-45 compared with a prewar one, you'd probably notice a tangible drop in quality and many simplifications. In any case, Oswald's shots were fired at a range of about 80 yrds. He was a solid marksman that had familiarized himself with his rifle and had zeroed it most likely at a local range.

[ELVIS]

When I read shit as as this what...

Drugs are bad, Mkay ??

[Nickdfresh]

Drugs are bad, Mkay ??

You should up your prescript.

[ELVIS]

Of what ??

[Nickdfresh]

Anything!

[Kristy]

Ghey.

[evilletwin]

Again, sexism is your only defense. It only demonstrates to me how fucking pathetic your life really is.

Lol, I'm not the bigot who hates the world, sister. Do have a look in the mirror before making lame statements like that.

[evilletwin]

Drugs are bad, Mkay ??

Mkay.

[fraroc]

Lol, I'm not the bigot who hates the world, sister. Do have a look in the mirror before making lame statements like that.

Well, Krustina is the biggest motherfucking cunt not only on this site, but on the entire planet as well.

[Kristy]

Lol, I'm not the bigot who hates the world, sister. Do have a look in the mirror before making lame statements like that.

I'm not your "sister" fuckface.

[Nitro Express]

http://youtu.be/a5IWK9sRYTs

[Nitro Express]

http://youtu.be/t2M1hC4c0tc

Never underestimate what an old military surplus rifle can do. It all depends on what kind of shape the barrel and muzzle are in. The ammo and of course the shooter. Some rifles just shoot better than others. You can't judge the whole lot just because the one you shot didn't shoot well.

[Nitro Express]

http://youtu.be/XNoM0dj9C2s

One thing for certain. Someone wanted the Kennedy's out of the White House. They got Bobby too.

[Nickdfresh]

http://youtu.be/t2M1hC4c0tc

Never underestimate what an old military surplus rifle can do. It all depends on what kind of shape the barrel and muzzle are in. The ammo and of course the shooter. Some rifles just shoot better than others. You can't judge the whole lot just because the one you shot didn't shoot well.

The Mosi-Nagants were quite good if unrefined. They were used by Soviet forces as late as The Afghan War as sniper rifles...

[Terry]

The two bits of circumstantial evidence that tend to stymie those opting for theories other than that of Oswald acting alone are the attempted Walker assassination and the murder of Tippit. Ballistics has matched the missile remains in both shootings to weapons owned by Oswald. Explanations for Oswald undertaking those actions other than Walker being Oswald's first choice and a botched attempt, and Tippit being a case of Oswald panicking and trying to elude capture strain credulity, to be polite about it.
The idea of Ruby being told to shoot Oswald to silence him, well, why would anyone doing such a thing wait until Oswald had been in custody for nearly two full days (with ample opportunity to disclose the names of any hypothetical conspirators he was working with to Dallas police)? And why give such a task to Ruby? Ruby was just as unstable as Oswald was, which naturally begs the question as to why anyone would trust Oswald with killing Kennedy.
There are a lot of illogical syllogisms floating around that are used to make dubious links and claims (e.g. the CIA had a file on Oswald, therefore the CIA did it / Ruby may have knew some low-level mobsters, therefore the Mafia did it). There are some Rashomon-like instances of discrepancies with eyewitnesses at Dealey Plaza but this isn't anything unusal in the case of many events (purple monkey dishwasher / Johnny and the Mothers are playing Stomping At The Sovoy in Vermont tonight), and it is also clear there were suspicions of active plots to murder Kennedy in the fall of 1963 that, if true, were clearly conspiracies. Suspicions strong enough to cause alterations by the Secret Service to the travel plans of JFK in Chicago, Miami and Tampa. Oswald also led an unconventional life full of odd choices and circumstances. All of this makes it not all that difficult for rational people to think there had to be more to the Kennedy assassination than there was. I felt that way for a long time.
I no longer do. I think Oswald thought of himself as someone with a great destiny, who fantasized about being important. In this, he is no more unusual than many people. I think he did do some fairly impressive things for a person of his limited formal educational background and impoverished circumstances. After being in the Marines and defecting to Russia, I think a mundane life of menial jobs and a Russian wife who was asserting her independence from him (she basically looked at Oswald as a sad-sack loser with little more than a head full of daydreams after a couple of years in America with him) just slowly pushed him over the brink. It takes hard work and persistence to attain greatness. Oswald lost patience with that and opted to become notorious as a way of getting fame and a permanent place in history. The irony for Oswald is that he had so little time to relish his newfound fame before some OTHER nutter did HIM in. I wonder about Oswald's last moments, dying while on the way to the hospital, which emotion he felt more: a sense of triumph or regret. Kharma didn't take long to return to him, in any event.

[Nitro Express]

The Mosi-Nagants were quite good if unrefined. They were used by Soviet forces as late as The Afghan War as sniper rifles...

The Soviets would take the ones that grouped better during test firing and set those aside for sniper rifles. Then they would scope them. I tend to shoot mosins better than mausers because a mosin stock fits me better. I've never shot a carcano but knowing what I know from shooting various mosins, mausers, enfields, krags, M1 Garands, 1903 Springfields is never underestimate arms people today think are beat, old, and inaccurate. If they have clean rifling, an undamaged muzzle, good ammo and a shooter that knows what they are doing, they usually shoot quite well.

[Nitro Express]

A high powered rifle round hitting a head is just going to make it explode. People say a round came from the front because the skin, skull, and brains blew back. It's going to blow everywhere. Also when bullets pass through liquid they distort and no longer travel in the line of flight.

All I know is Kennedy wanted to keep us out of the Vietnam war. The warmongering generals hated him. He signed the Green Hilton Agreement to give the Federal Reserve Bank some competition. He wanted to bust up the CIA and throw it into a million pieces. Kennedy had enemies everywhere including his own vice president.

I don't buy the lone nutcase theory because Jack Ruby killed Oswald. Why would a scumbag like Ruby want to kill Oswald? Dead men tell no tales. No way would a scummy club owner with mob ties kill a guy like Oswald because the president had been shot. The Kennedy's were at war with the mob. A guy like Ruby would probably give Oswald a free lap dance because he killed that backstabbing SOB.

[Seshmeister]

The two bits of circumstantial evidence that tend to stymie those opting for theories other than that of Oswald acting alone are the attempted Walker assassination and the murder of Tippit. Ballistics has matched the missile remains in both shootings to weapons owned by Oswald. Explanations for Oswald undertaking those actions other than Walker being Oswald's first choice and a botched attempt, and Tippit being a case of Oswald panicking and trying to elude capture strain credulity, to be polite about it.
The idea of Ruby being told to shoot Oswald to silence him, well, why would anyone doing such a thing wait until Oswald had been in custody for nearly two full days (with ample opportunity to disclose the names of any hypothetical conspirators he was working with to Dallas police)? And why give such a task to Ruby? Ruby was just as unstable as Oswald was, which naturally begs the question as to why anyone would trust Oswald with killing Kennedy.
There are a lot of illogical syllogisms floating around that are used to make dubious links and claims (e.g. the CIA had a file on Oswald, therefore the CIA did it / Ruby may have knew some low-level mobsters, therefore the Mafia did it). There are some Rashomon-like instances of discrepancies with eyewitnesses at Dealey Plaza but this isn't anything unusal in the case of many events (purple monkey dishwasher / Johnny and the Mothers are playing Stomping At The Sovoy in Vermont tonight), and it is also clear there were suspicions of active plots to murder Kennedy in the fall of 1963 that, if true, were clearly conspiracies. Suspicions strong enough to cause alterations by the Secret Service to the travel plans of JFK in Chicago, Miami and Tampa. Oswald also led an unconventional life full of odd choices and circumstances. All of this makes it not all that difficult for rational people to think there had to be more to the Kennedy assassination than there was. I felt that way for a long time.
I no longer do. I think Oswald thought of himself as someone with a great destiny, who fantasized about being important. In this, he is no more unusual than many people. I think he did do some fairly impressive things for a person of his limited formal educational background and impoverished circumstances. After being in the Marines and defecting to Russia, I think a mundane life of menial jobs and a Russian wife who was asserting her independence from him (she basically looked at Oswald as a sad-sack loser with little more than a head full of daydreams after a couple of years in America with him) just slowly pushed him over the brink. It takes hard work and persistence to attain greatness. Oswald lost patience with that and opted to become notorious as a way of getting fame and a permanent place in history. The irony for Oswald is that he had so little time to relish his newfound fame before some OTHER nutter did HIM in. I wonder about Oswald's last moments, dying while on the way to the hospital, which emotion he felt more: a sense of triumph or regret. Kharma didn't take long to return to him, in any event.


Great post.

I used to think there was a conspiracy but if you take a step back and just look at the evidence from scratch you come to the following

a) Oswald was definitely a shooter
b) He wasn't someone you would ever dream of using in a conspiracy and there is no evidence of him having contact with anyone.

That means that either he was the lone shooter or there just happened to be a simultaneous attempt by others unknown to Oswald.

All the rest of the conspiracy theories is selectively taking things and ignoring the stuff that doesn't fit. A lot of these guys are intellectually dishonest, they have done lots of research and yet clearly deliberately don't mention other incredibly pertinent details like Oswald's previous assassination attempt.

For years I did wonder about the Ruby thing but the guy was a fucking nut job. Look up the letters he sent his brother from jail, this was not a rational guy.

[Seshmeister]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Witness-reports-of-head-wound.jpg



This just goes to show how unreliable eyewitnesses can be.


Ironically these frames are from a website saying they prove he was hit from the front when they prove the exact opposite.


http://assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/frame312.jpg http://assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/frame313.jpg

[Nitro Express]

All they prove is a high velocity projectile hit Kennedy in the head and part of his head blew all over the place. I love the conspiracy theory of the limo driver turning around and plugging Kennedy.

What's amazing is the presidential limo had no armor. It had a bubble top in the trunk but it was just plexiglass. You look at the armored beast presidents travel in now it was a different world then. The presidential limos are so heavy now the motors routinely give out and fail.


http://youtu.be/X_ZUTVESJPk

Listen to the inside of the presidential limo at 1:49. It sounds like a rickety old wagon. Probably rides like one too.

Ha! Timothy Geithner looks at Obama like he's a little worm. The Federal Reserve boy wants no stinking burgers!

[Nickdfresh]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/JFK_skull_trajectory.jpg
The angle of entry.
http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f237/490345d1381993685-computer-generated-image-jfk-autopsy-computergeneratedjfk.jpg
A simulation showing the shattered skull...

[Nitro Express]

Nice. Let's all go out for a pasta dinner now.

[Seshmeister]

Looks like a sore one...

[Nickdfresh]

...

All the rest of the conspiracy theories is selectively taking things and ignoring the stuff that doesn't fit. A lot of these guys are intellectually dishonest, they have done lots of research and yet clearly deliberately don't mention other incredibly pertinent details like Oswald's previous assassination attempt. ....

Oliver Stone would be the poster boy for intellectually dishonest. He lionizes Jim Garrison and only briefly shows members of his staff quitting. What he left out was that Garrison was increasing sounding like a crazy bitch, and was completely fabricating things that never happened, like his statements regarding the "coup" in Dallas that sounded more like the Chilean coup against Allende, including armored vehicles on the streets of Dallas and armed soldiers in full battle gear. Something no one has ever recounted and there is no record of anything even close to that taking place. He left the fact that Garrison was melting down towards the end of his pursuit of "the truth" out of the film to give this lunatic credibility and a heroic stature he does not deserve...

[Nitro Express]

http://youtu.be/-PSXQJ9jujk

Yeah but that movie gave us the best John Candy scene ever. John Candy as Dean Andrews. Classic!

[Seshmeister]

He's completely unrepentant.

As I said I heard him being interviewed recently (due to his new TV series The Untold Story of the US) and he doesn't take anything a back, instead blaming the US press for unfairly attacking the JFK movie.

He's clearly a smart guy and has done some brilliant work in his time but he seems to have a huge blind spot on this.

[Nitro Express]

Well Hollywood movies are entertainment. Period. The problem is people are too stupid to see them as otherwise. As far as a movie art project goes Stone did a good job. I liked the casting.

[Nickdfresh]

http://youtu.be/-PSXQJ9jujk

Yeah but that movie gave us the best John Candy scene ever. John Candy as Dean Andrews. Classic!

That's what's gauling, it's a very good film technically. Well acted and great cinematography...

[Nitro Express]

Well that's why Oliver Stone got paid the big bucks. He was a good movie maker. It's art. Artists take artistic license. Most accurate historians are lousy artists and the public want to be entertained. The dog and pony show always will win in movie ticket sales. It's about putting butts in theater seats and selling the videos. It's not about educating anyone.

[Seshmeister]

Well Hollywood movies are entertainment. Period. The problem is people are too stupid to see them as otherwise.

The problem is movies get embedded in peoples minds and over time they get confused with reality.

Happened even more so with Capricorn 5 movie and the crazy Fake Moon Landing conspiracy.

[Terry]

This just goes to show how unreliable eyewitnesses can be.


Ironically these frames are from a website saying they prove he was hit from the front when they prove the exact opposite.


http://assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/frame312.jpg http://assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/frame313.jpg

And then if you point out that the Zapruder and Nix films show the back of Kennedy's head intact after the head shot was fired and you point out that the autopsy photos show a small entrance wound at the back of the head, contrarians will automatically say "well, clearly this shows the autopsy photos AND the Zapruder/Nix films were altered aftre the fact."

Well, wait a minute, who altered them and how were they altered?

"They" did it.

Regarding what you said about intellectual dishonesty, there are enough odd circumstances surrounding the whole biz and various 'six degrees of separation' relationships to make it seem that there is something that wasn't there. But I'd have to agree that more than a few of the more prominent pro-conspiracy authors/pundits (Robert Groden and Jim Marrs spring to mind) have been intellectually dishonest to the point where I don't doubt they believe there was a conspiracy, but too much of their respective theories involve pounding intellectual square pegs into round holes to prove this was the case.

Probably the best-known example is Oliver Stone's movie JFK, where when one really starts examining the backstory and sources of Stone's information used in the film, it just collapses as the bunk house of cards the Garrison investigation was. Not just the liberties Stone took with condensing events, creating composite characters and fabricating scenes that never happened, either.

[Terry]

He's completely unrepentant.

As I said I heard him being interviewed recently (due to his new TV series The Untold Story of the US) and he doesn't take anything a back, instead blaming the US press for unfairly attacking the JFK movie.

He's clearly a smart guy and has done some brilliant work in his time but he seems to have a huge blind spot on this.

See, Stone always fobs off the same childish response to those questioning the veracity of his sources and conclusions re: JFK the movie - "I'm a filmmaker and I don't have a responsibility to the accuracy of my sources as much as I have a responsibility to entertain the audience."

Well, no, if you're gonna make a movie about the Kennedy assassination and claim to be offering an "alternative myth or reality about what happened, just as the Warren Commission was one myth about what happened" then it's just plain silly not to expect people to pick apart what you chose to put in the movie as far characters and the facts as you saw them. Stone seems to think that as a filmmaker he has the license to speculate on the Kennedy assassination to whatever degree he wanted without being called out on such assertions as Clay Shaw being involved, or Shaw knowing Ferrie and Oswald. [Stone] created a composite character to assert that Ferrie, Oswald and Shaw had discussed the assassination beforehand, yet fails to point out that the ONLY witness Garrison had (Perry Russo) to make that claim did so under hypnotic suggestion and later recanted that such an event took place. And this is just ONE instance of Stone outright fabricating (or lying) in the name of 'creative license'. I'm not gonna go on and point out every instance of this happening in the flick, but this was far from an isolated incident.

Stone HAS made quite a few great movies, although after U-Turn I find his stuff pretty bland. As a movie, JFK is an interesting flick. If one sees it without being aware of the actual events and Stone's sources, it may seem to make a compelling case for a conspiracy. Once one does a bit of homework, it's not even close.

[Seshmeister]

I made the analogy before but it's like looking at a puddle and saying 'wow what are the chances of that water being the exact same shape as the hole.

If you look at anything closely enough including your day today there will be all sorts of coincidences and strangeness.

I only ever went to the club I met the SM at once as did she - the one in the Trainspotting movie. It was a last minute decision on a Wednesday night based on a bunch of unlikely shit. We just happened to sit at adjacent seats, her friend just happened to disappear, my pal just happened to go and fuck some girl on the dance floor.

The conspiracy theorist approach to that is to say that because this was a one in ten thousand thing to happen there must have been some government plot for us to have our kids.

Shit happens, there are an infinite number of possibilities and when there are it becomes likely that unlikely things will happen routinely and that scares people.

Evidence and the scientific method is all we have that works and unfashionable and unexciting as it is, just because the Warren committee was a bit shit doesn't mean that it wasn't a big conspiracy...

[Seshmeister]

Stone HAS made quite a few great movies, although after U-Turn I find his stuff pretty bland.

This is the thing - he was saying that making JFK meant that 'They' had set out to ruin his career.

So you look at IMDB.

He writes Scarface then directs and or writes Platoon, The Doors, Born on the Fourth of July, Talk Radio and Wall Street.

He then does JFK followed by Heaven & Earth, Natural Born Killers, Nixon, U Turn, Any Given Sunday, Alexander, World Trade Centre and W.

There are a few problems with his argument mainly that his later movies are on the whole clearly not as good but also if the CIA were trying to stop him would he even get to make just as many big movies as his contemporary directors and also have a couple of successes?

Hollywood nonsense...

[Kristy]

Looks like a sore one...

That is one sexy photo of Kennedy.

[Kristy]

Stone HAS made quite a few great movies, although after U-Turn I find his stuff pretty bland. As a movie, JFK is an interesting flick. If one sees it without being aware of the actual events and Stone's sources, it may seem to make a compelling case for a conspiracy. Once one does a bit of homework, it's not even close.

Oh PLUUUUUUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEZE! Stone is a hack. Always has been, always will be. He only nod to any sort of true accreditation was his screen writing in Scarface in which De Palma directed. When stone ventured out on his own with The Doors you just knew he made tripe movies. The man has no latent behind the lens as he did the typewriter.

[cadaverdog]

A high powered rifle round hitting a head is just going to make it explode. People say a round came from the front because the skin, skull, and brains blew back. It's going to blow everywhere. Also when bullets pass through liquid they distort and no longer travel in the line of flight.

All I know is Kennedy wanted to keep us out of the Vietnam war. The warmongering generals hated him. He signed the Green Hilton Agreement to give the Federal Reserve Bank some competition. He wanted to bust up the CIA and throw it into a million pieces. Kennedy had enemies everywhere including his own vice president.

I don't buy the lone nutcase theory because Jack Ruby killed Oswald. Why would a scumbag like Ruby want to kill Oswald? Dead men tell no tales. No way would a scummy club owner with mob ties kill a guy like Oswald because the president had been shot. The Kennedy's were at war with the mob. A guy like Ruby would probably give Oswald a free lap dance because he killed that backstabbing SOB.
If Kennedy was trying to keep us out of Viet Nam why did he start sending troops over there? Eisenhower sent 900 advisors but there were 16,000 US military personnel by 1963. That doesn't sound like he tried very hard to me.

[vh rides again]

The dumbocrats roots go all the way back to slavery and the KKK, they started the first war trying to hold onto it, one of their dipshit followers even assassinated a president over it.

so whats your point ?

[fraroc]

The dumbocrats roots go all the way back to slavery and the KKK, they started the first war trying to hold onto it, one of their dipshit followers even assassinated a president over it.

so whats your point ?

The two parties switched sides.

[Angel]

Well, Krustina is the biggest motherfucking cunt not only on this site, but on the entire planet as well.

Ummm...no. This new cunt has seized the throne.

[Nickdfresh]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/JFK_skull_trajectory.jpg
The angle of entry.
http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f237/490345d1381993685-computer-generated-image-jfk-autopsy-computergeneratedjfk.jpg
A simulation showing the shattered skull...

I hope everyone realizes this a computer generated simulation of the concave of the skull after the shooting if you remove the flap of skin and hair. This isn't an actual pic...

[Nickdfresh]

If Kennedy was trying to keep us out of Viet Nam why did he start sending troops over there? Eisenhower sent 900 advisors but there were 16,000 US military personnel by 1963. That doesn't sound like he tried very hard to me.

There's no definitive evidence either way. Kennedy expanded the role there of the U.S. and there is some indication he was prepared to send American combat troops. There is also some evidence he was thinking about scaling back U.S. involvement after Diem was executed in a coup. He authorized the coup, but didn't want Diem killed and he was becoming somewhat dubious of the shit filled Saigon
crony political system.

Then again, if JFK had lived, he might have appointed a better general than Wastemoreland who actually would have understood the political nature of the war...

[Nickdfresh]

The dumbocrats roots go all the way back to slavery and the KKK, they started the first war trying to hold onto it, one of their dipshit followers even assassinated a president over it.

so whats your point ?

But now all the Southern racists vote Republican. :)

[vh rides again]

But now all the Southern racists vote Republican. :)

Huh
The dumbass ocrats still to this day want to enslave Americans, make us completely reliant on the government or at its mercy.
The only people that want big government are the parasites that are too fucking lazy to go get it their self.
By the end of next year, Americans will have opened their eyes to what this administration has been doing these last few years instead of being mindless sheep that pay no attention to anything.
People's pocketbooks are going to get raped hard for insurance, then the shit is going to hit the fan.
It's comin and it's not going to be pretty for the demo tards.

[Satan]

Yeah, that's white! We'll show you goddamned librul commie hippie bastards! Were gonna tear it all down and deregulate everything, have slavery again, and goddamn homeschool our children, who are all the product of incest, so they can be just as goddamned stupid as we are!

YEEEEEEHAAAAAW! Ted Cruz 2016! Dumbasses Uber Alles! :meinsmiley:

[Kristy]

Huh
The dumbass ocrats still to this day want to enslave Americans, make us completely reliant on the government or at its mercy.
The only people that want big government are the parasites that are too fucking lazy to go get it their self.
By the end of next year, Americans will have opened their eyes to what this administration has been doing these last few years instead of being mindless sheep that pay no attention to anything.
People's pocketbooks are going to get raped hard for insurance, then the shit is going to hit the fan.
It's comin and it's not going to be pretty for the demo tards.

Look, another Alex clone.

[Satan]

Nah, it's just our old friend "4morequeers"/"aquaticpunk" with a newer and dumber alias.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

There's no definitive evidence either way. Kennedy expanded the role there of the U.S. and there is some indication he was prepared to send American combat troops. There is also some evidence he was thinking about scaling back U.S. involvement after Diem was executed in a coup. He authorized the coup, but didn't want Diem killed and he was becoming somewhat dubious of the shit filled Saigon
crony political system.

Then again, if JFK had lived, he might have appointed a better general than Wastemoreland who actually would have understood the political nature of the war...


I disagree, they were getting ready to execute National Security Action 263, which would have pulled 1000 "advisors" out of Vietnam by the end of 1963.

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/w6LJoSnW4UehkaH9Ip5IAA.aspx

Of course, then LBJ put out National Security Action 273 four days after the assassination, which basically set the wheels in motion to escalate the war...

http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/johnson/archives.hom/nsams/nsam273.asp

IMHO, I don't think Vietnam would have been anywhere close to being as bad as LBJ and Nixon ended up managing it....

[vh rides again]

Nah, it's just our old friend "4morequeers"/"aquaticpunk" with a newer and dumber alias.

Wrong again loser , no alias's here.

[vh rides again]

Look, another Alex clone.

Look another dolt that refuses to admit that the guy he/she voted for is an idiot/ criminal.

[Kristy]

Of course, then LBJ put out National Security Action 273 four days after the assassination, which basically set the wheels in motion to escalate the war...

Was that before or after The Gulf Of Tonkin "incident?"

[Seshmeister]

http://bit.ly/18C61Za

[Kristy]

Links are for pussies, Sesh.

[vh rides again]

Who the fuck cares about who killed Kennedy , he was a scumbag that came from a criminal scumbag family, whoever shot him did his idiot wife a favor.

[WARF's Vagina]

links are for pussies, sesh.

stfu.

[Satan]

Who the fuck cares about who killed Kennedy , he was a scumbag that came from a criminal scumbag family, whoever shot him did his idiot wife a favor.

Better clean your house so it will be ready for your visit from the Secret service, asshole. Because this dragonshit just got forwarded to them.........

[Kristy]

Who the fuck cares about who killed Kennedy , he was a scumbag that came from a criminal scumbag family, whoever shot him did his idiot wife a favor.

You fucking talking Jone$ parrots. I swear you lack any originality in your banal arguments.

[Nitro Express]

Who the fuck cares about who killed Kennedy , he was a scumbag that came from a criminal scumbag family, whoever shot him did his idiot wife a favor.

Joseph Kennedy was as big of a scumbag as you could find. Rose Kennedy seemed like a decent person who wanted to divorce Joe for his womanizing but in those days good catholics didn't get divorced. JFK was a weird mix of his father and mother. He was far from perfect but he loved his country and wasn't anti-american like the string of presidents we have had the misfortune to have in office. He tried to keep us out of a war for profit. He tried to get US Dollars issued by the government interest free instead of being a slave to the Federal Reserve Bank. He tried to break up a corrupt intelligence agency that had too much power.

What he did with other women was between him and Mrs. Kennedy. As far as I can see, he wasn't screwing the American people so give the guy a break. I doubt blowing her husband's brains all over her was doing Mrs. Kennedy a favor. I doubt that would qualify for a thank you card.

[78/84 guy]

I don't like the use of the word patsy that you always get about Oswald because it implies he was somehow not guilty.

It's not a popular standpoint with the JFK conspiracy industry but the evidence against him is overwhelming.

1) He has the perfect psychiatric background and reports to be a lone nut gunman
2) He was found to be an excellent shot in the marines
3) Earlier in the year he purchases a rifle and tries to assassinate an anti communist retired general
4) He goes to work at the book depository and then disappears during and after the shooting, the murder weapon, his rifle is found at the scene.
5) People see a guy who looks like him shooting at the motorcade from the depository
6) He gets a taxi away from the scene for the first time in his life, the equivalent in those days of one of us getting a helicopter
7) When challenged by a cop because he fits that description of the shooter he kills him.

You would need to be a fuck of a lawyer to get anyone off of that.

Whether someone put him up to it is hard to prove one way or the other but he didn't seem to talk to many other people or go out so its difficult to see who or how.

There is plenty of why but not much else.

Also worth noting that the mob and the CIA tried over 20 times to assassinate Castro yet managed the perfect crime with JFK first time?

All true. Because he did hit Kennedy with the second shot. The magic bullit. The one that went through his neck. But who got him with the front head shoot ?

[Satan]

You mortals should ask Arlen Specter what he thinks of that "magic bullet" theory now.

Let's just say it's one of the main reasons he's here......

Gerald Ford too, for that matter. He wouldn't have necessarily come to Hell for pardoning Nixon. But chairing that fraudulent Warren Commission.... that's what brought him here.

[78/84 guy]

Jesus, not everything is a conspiracy in your land of the free and the brave. As a Brit, being impartial to Yank Politics, I think I have a reasonable amount of intelligence to discern what is (or at least looks) real. I'm no Obama fan, I think he's a joke -- but I'm certainly no GOP fan either, I think one is as bad as the other for America. Daddy Bush with puppet son ruined your economy with his pandering to the cor-po-rats, and Barrack is merely a Republican in a bad suit with ultra bad policies and race dividing ethics (Zimmerman was a classic, he on his high horse doing a Sharpton, getting a police captain fired for doing his job, while failing to mention that three brutal black on white murders happened that exact day. So, I think the documentary I saw, with previously unreleased footage, showing the SS guy putting a hole in JFK's head, as he was so hungover, fumbling to get a shot off at the Tower, he loosed a round into the guy's head. Accidents do happen. All involved were threatened to keep quiet over the incident or else. . . Now, did Oswald fire the 2nd bullet that hit JFK in the shoulder, that brought him flying back and his head getting in the way of a hungover agent who fired the kill shot? The documentary says yes, I seriously doubt it. They got the best sniper in the States to take the shot with the same gun LHO used, and he only made a direct hit on the third attempt. Unlikely Oswald was a shooter. Maybe, who knows. But if he worked for the CIA, KGB, or whoever would want JFK dead - they would hardly issue the guy with a weapon that basically a pop gun would have more accuracy. Did he act alone? No personal history showed he would do such a thing. That's all I was saying.

They originally thought the driver did it because in the original uncleaned up film, you can see a shadow of what looks like a gun as the driver turns around. But in the restored version it's clear it was just the shadow or glow of the sun glowing off the hair of the passenger ridding in the front of the car next to the driver.

[Seshmeister]

All true. Because he did hit Kennedy with the second shot. The magic bullit. The one that went through his neck. But who got him with the front head shoot ?

Read the rest of the thread.

[Nickdfresh]

Huh
The dumbass ocrats still to this day want to enslave Americans, make us completely reliant on the government or at its mercy.
The only people that want big government are the parasites that are too fucking lazy to go get it their self.
By the end of next year, Americans will have opened their eyes to what this administration has been doing these last few years instead of being mindless sheep that pay no attention to anything.
People's pocketbooks are going to get raped hard for insurance, then the shit is going to hit the fan.
It's comin and it's not going to be pretty for the demo tards.

Thanks for admitting I'm right. So, all the Southern Dixiecrat assholes that supported white supremacy and segregation all defected to the GOP in the 1960's-70's....

[tbone888]

Didn't I read somewhere that Sen Kennedy was swayed by Sen Byrd ( a former KKK member) to vote against an earlier civil rights bill in the late 50's fearing a loss of southern votes? I swear politicians will whore themselves out to anyone or anything that will keep them in power...racists, corporations, anything.

[vh rides again]

Thanks for admitting I'm right. So, all the Southern Dixiecrat assholes that supported white supremacy and segregation all defected to the GOP in the 1960's-70's....

Your not going to see me defending any of them, unlike you I won't act like nothing is wrong just because they are the team I support.

I have no respect for you at all, your nothing but a bigot.

[vh rides again]

Better clean your house so it will be ready for your visit from the Secret service, asshole. Because this dragonshit just got forwarded to them.........

LOL
Wouldn't surprise me a bit, I've always suspected you of being a rat fink piece of shit.

[Satan]

LOL
Wouldn't surprise me a bit, I've always suspected you of being a rat fink piece of shit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj_-_HFMErA

[cadaverdog]

LOL
Wouldn't surprise me a bit, I've always suspected you of being a rat fink piece of shit.
Ford wouldn't dare notify the authorities. The BCE would find out where he lived and silence him. He has extensive files detailing their activities since great great great great great great grandpa Bush paid Pontius Pilot to was his hands.

[Satan]

Ford wouldn't dare notify the authorities. The BCE would find out where he lived and silence him. He has extensive files detailing their activities since great great great great great great grandpa Bush paid Pontius Pilot to was his hands.

The BCE had nothing to do with Pontius Pilate. Goddamn, Socky... don't you ever listen to the Stones??

And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

so in other words, that one was all on me.


And I won't speak for FORD, but the BCE knows damn well where I'm at. Because it's their future eternal home as well...... http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d010.gif

[Terry]

Kennedy is a bit too highly rated in terms of presidential rankings.

The JFK myth has always been a bit overblown, and much of it was based on great things people assume he MIGHT have accomplished had he lived.

It's just as easy to imagine Kennedy's second term resulting in Civil Rights legislation proposals that Kennedy didn't have a chance of getting through Congress (the whole biz was basically DOA in the weeks leading up to his death in terms of the chances that any actual laws would result from whatever Kennedy's ambitions were, because JFK's relations with Congress were pretty abysmal). Along with the Bobby Baker scandal that was unfolding when Kennedy died, and the Baker connections to Ellen Rometsch, which could potentially have led to the resignation of LBJ and also exposed Kennedy's extramarital affairs in a manner that would be too big for the Fourth Estate to turn a blind eye to.

As for Vietnam, virtually all of the advisors surrounding LBJ in 1964 onwards were holdovers from the Kennedy Administration. Kennedy significantly increased the number of military personnel in that country, and regardless of Kennedy's intent to withdraw from Vietnam after he was re-elected, events could well have overtaken those intentions.

So much of JFK's historical 'greatness' comes as a result of him having died young and not having much of a chance to grapple with turning his visions of the New Frontier into realities.

[Terry]

Oh PLUUUUUUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEZE! Stone is a hack. Always has been, always will be. He only nod to any sort of true accreditation was his screen writing in Scarface in which De Palma directed. When stone ventured out on his own with The Doors you just knew he made tripe movies. The man has no latent behind the lens as he did the typewriter.

In terms of cinematography and the imagery Stones opts to present, I think he's done a lot of very interesting flicks.

In terms of the heavy-handedness of the messages his various movies impart, I'd certainly agree Stone is about as subtle as a knee to the groin.

I enjoyed much of what he did right up until U-Turn. After that, well...I liked the camerawork on Any Given Sunday, but found it too long and packed with characters I didn't give a shit about. W was pretty much tripe. World Trade Center was kind of dull. Basically, up until U-Turn, even if I didn't like certain Stone movies I at least didn't find them boring. After 1998, he just ran out of gas.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

As for Vietnam, virtually all of the advisors surrounding LBJ in 1964 onwards were holdovers from the Kennedy Administration. Kennedy significantly increased the number of military personnel in that country, and regardless of Kennedy's intent to withdraw from Vietnam after he was re-elected, events could well have overtaken those intentions.

But the FACT was that he was going to start withdrawing troops. That's not speculation, such as events overtaking his intentions.


Um, how about preventing a nuclear war? Any credit for that?

[Seshmeister]

Yeah just how legendary would Obama be now if Alex Jones had been correct and he was murdered in his first year...?

[Kristy]

In terms of cinematography and the imagery Stones opts to present, I think he's done a lot of very interesting flicks.

And here is every "interesting flick" Stone ever did in one sentence:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CS4z-M6zmy0/Tn1KrgdYVCI/AAAAAAAAAnY/VZGtudPxrKM/s400/Poo-on-plate.jpg

[Seshmeister]

That's silly - and not a sentence.

Scarface, Platoon, Wall Street, Born on the Fourth of July and The Untold History of the United States are all excellent to good and that's pretty much an objective opinion.

Then you have Nixon, The Doors, Natural Born Killers, The People vs. Larry Flynt and so on that have problems but in places have memorable moments and some interesting stuff.

In a world where most big movies are 'designed' by studio accountants to maximize the return by aiming at 15 year olds on the lowest common denominators and showing most of the (half the time comic book) film in the fucking trailer, it's ridiculous to attack Stone as being completely shit.

[Kristy]

That's silly - and not a sentence.

Was too, hippie.


Scarface Rip off of every gangster movie ever made

Platoon Rip off of Full Metal Jacket

Wall Street Stone was having gay sex with Charlie Sheen at the time

Born on the Fourth of July Stone was having gay sex with Tom Cruise at the time.

The Untold History of the United States So "untold" no one ever saw it.

[Satan]

Geez... Kristy hates Oliver Stone so much, you would have thought he directed "The Song Remains The Same"

[Kristy]

Once Stone directs a watchable movie let me know.

[Seshmeister]

I disagree, they were getting ready to execute National Security Action 263, which would have pulled 1000 "advisors" out of Vietnam by the end of 1963.

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/w6LJoSnW4UehkaH9Ip5IAA.aspx

Of course, then LBJ put out National Security Action 273 four days after the assassination, which basically set the wheels in motion to escalate the war...

http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/johnson/archives.hom/nsams/nsam273.asp

IMHO, I don't think Vietnam would have been anywhere close to being as bad as LBJ and Nixon ended up managing it....

There were 3 options for American presidents, let South Korea go communist, send in troops or send in money and advisers. By 1965 the third option would have disappeared. Johnson kept all JFK's people same head of national security, secretary of state, defense and they all urged him to send in troops, would he have resisted all that? Could he after fighting an election in 1964 against a right wing republican?

Would he have made it through 2 terms without being impeached when he was banging mobster molls and foreign hookers?

[Nickdfresh]

Didn't I read somewhere that Sen Kennedy was swayed by Sen Byrd ( a former KKK member) to vote against an earlier civil rights bill in the late 50's fearing a loss of southern votes? I swear politicians will whore themselves out to anyone or anything that will keep them in power...racists, corporations, anything.


I dunno, did you? You seem unsure...

[Nickdfresh]

Your not going to see me defending any of them, unlike you I won't act like nothing is wrong just because they are the team I support.

I have no respect for you at all, your nothing but a bigot.

Oh God no! My day is ruined! van hagar rides a man has no respect for me and calls me a bigot? Maybe you can arbitrarily and completely nonsensically call me other names you pull out of your asshole, 4manwhoreforqueers? :D

[Nickdfresh]

Joseph Kennedy was as big of a scumbag as you could find. Rose Kennedy seemed like a decent person who wanted to divorce Joe for his womanizing but in those days good catholics didn't get divorced. JFK was a weird mix of his father and mother. He was far from perfect but he loved his country and wasn't anti-american like the string of presidents we have had the misfortune to have in office. He tried to keep us out of a war for profit. He tried to get US Dollars issued by the government interest free instead of being a slave to the Federal Reserve Bank. He tried to break up a corrupt intelligence agency that had too much power.

What he did with other women was between him and Mrs. Kennedy. As far as I can see, he wasn't screwing the American people so give the guy a break. I doubt blowing her husband's brains all over her was doing Mrs. Kennedy a favor. I doubt that would qualify for a thank you card.

Joe Kennedy was no saint. But he isn't the bogeyman devil he's often caricatured as either. Yes, he was a 'womanizer', which was fairly standard back then for upper class men. But he was against WWI on moral grounds and was inherently an Isolationist. One who lost most of his sons and one who never got over the death of JFK's older brother in WWII...

[Nickdfresh]

And here is every "interesting flick" Stone ever did in one sentence:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bA4vQlXFjm4/TtI0bW9-n6I/AAAAAAAAEVk/6p_kFSZXERw/s1600/platoonElias4.jpg

Platoon is without question one of the greatest war films ever made...

[Nickdfresh]

..
Rip off of Full Metal Jacket
....

Um, Platoon predates Full Metal Jacket by at least a year, and was based on a dramatic version of Stone's service...

[Kristy]

Look! Niki can IMDB, too.

There is no end to your internet talents!

[Nickdfresh]

Who the fuck cares about who killed Kennedy , he was a scumbag that came from a criminal scumbag family, whoever shot him did his idiot wife a favor.

You dumbfucking sockpuppet.

JFK is neither the liberal romanticist's Prince of Camelot; nor is he the Machiavellian "son-of-a-bootlegger." He was a complex man that was flawed. But he was also without a doubt a war hero that saved his men from certain death. Mind you, while doing this while suffering from such severe, chronic back-pain he should never have served in WWII, let alone on a PT Boat. But nearly all of his crew held him in high regard, and what is lost in all the PT109 stuff is that LT Jack Kennedy was one of the key architects from transforming the PT Boats from their largely useless function as torpedo boats into coastal gunboats and "barge-busters," and he devised tactics which contributed to blockading Japanese garrisons and in itself probably saved untold lives.

As for doing his wife a 'favor': when she was picking his brain matter off the truck of the car they were riding in that day in Dallas and stuffing it back into his head, a Secret Service agent heard her whimper something to the affect of "Oh God Jack! what have they done to you? I love you."

I seriously doubt anyone gives that much of a fuck about a bitter, weak Iowa fucktard like you...

[Nickdfresh]

Look! Niki can IMDB, too.

There is no end to your internet talents!

No, actually I'm a fan of both films and own the collectors edition them. I can simply look at the jackets and know what the fuck I'm talking about and provide facts to support my opinions...

[Kristy]

Good save, Niki. Good save.

[Von Halen]

Nicki Wiki! :D

[Kristy]

Shortened for Nikipedia.

[Nickdfresh]

Wikibator...

You're making Von jealous with all this attention to me, Kristy!

[78/84 guy]

Platoon is without question one of the greatest war films ever made...

Nah. Over acted. Has nothing on Full Metal.

[Terry]

But the FACT was that he was going to start withdrawing troops. That's not speculation, such as events overtaking his intentions.


Um, how about preventing a nuclear war? Any credit for that?

Presume you're referring to the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Depends on your take of the crisis.

Am not pro or anti-Castro. However, the fact remains the US government (rightly or wrongly) was trying to overthrow the Castro regime. Castro knew he was a target. Was turning to or accepting Soviet nuclear missiles in his country a bit extreme on his part? From our viewpoint, perhaps, but then we didn't have the perspective of a man who had a larger country organizing attempted coups and assassination plots against him.

So, in conclusion, um, how about taking our country to the brink of nuclear war? Does Kennedy get the credit for that, too? Or was JFK blameless in the events that led to Soviet missiles being deployed in Cuba?

[Seshmeister]

Christopher Hitchens had a good line about that.

"I always remember where I was when I was nearly killed by Kennedy."

[Terry]

I wish Hitchens were still around.

[Seshmeister]

Also worth mentioning as people sometimes seem to forget, that Castro overthrew an evil fuck of a corrupt dictator who had tortured and executed thousands while being propped up by the US government and mafia.

Castro was the lesser of two evils for his people at that time and the US responded by trying repeatedly to murder him.

[Seshmeister]

I wish Hitchens were still around.

He wasn't always right but he was always interesting and fearless.

[Terry]

He wasn't always right but he was always interesting and fearless.

Oh, indeed. I didn't agree with everything he had to say, but even when this was the case it was clear Hitchens had put a great degree of thought into his position, rather than cobble together a bunch of bumper sticker slogans and fob that off as an informed philosophy.

[Terry]

Also worth mentioning as people sometimes seem to forget, that Castro overthrew an evil fuck of a corrupt dictator who had tortured and executed thousands while being propped up by the US government and mafia.

Castro was the lesser of two evils for his people at that time and the US responded by trying repeatedly to murder him.

Although in time Castro and his regime turned out to be just as malicious as Batista, in the late 1950s/early 1960s the reason Castro had to go was because he had nationalized and took control of all the businesses, as opposed to allowing US business interests to essentially control the island.

[Seshmeister]

Oh, indeed. I didn't agree with everything he had to say, but even when this was the case it was clear Hitchens had put a great degree of thought into his position, rather than cobble together a bunch of bumper sticker slogans and fob that off as an informed philosophy.

He went after JFK, Kissinger, Clinton, Islam and Mother Theresa - he had balls. :)

I found myself actually laughing at the 'God is not great' book, it was a bit extreme even for me...

[Terry]

He went after JFK, Kissinger, Clinton, Islam and Mother Theresa - he had balls. :)

I found myself actually laughing at the 'God is not great' book, it was a bit extreme even for me...

He did a wonderful piece in Vanity Fair a couple of years before he died on Jackie Kennedy, thoughtfully and carefully laying out the case that she was a conniving gold digger who didn't deserve near the amount of adoration and praise lavished upon her by the media: when what she actually accomplished in life (as opposed to what she gained by marriage) was laid out, it made for pretty slim pickings.

He had a similar take on Princess Diana, and wasn't afraid to say so publicly (although he did wait for a decent interval after her death, mostly because he was so stunned people were going totally overboard in their reactions to her death).

[Seshmeister]

Although in time Castro and his regime turned out to be just as malicious as Batista, in the late 1950s/early 1960s the reason Castro had to go was because he had nationalized and took control of all the businesses, as opposed to allowing US business interests to essentially control the island.

I'm don't think he ever reached the levels of Batista but it's true people on the left are far too willing to forgive him for locking up journalists and suppressing free speech. I do wonder though if the US had reacted differently then he may not have gone to the extreme. After WWII Britain nationalized most of our key industries and set up free healthcare and improved education.

I'm amazed that he's still alive and they haven't flipped by now.

A couple of my pals were there a few years ago and they took some over the counter drugs like aspirin to give away to local doctors as they can be difficult to source because of the ridiculous US embargo. The doctor they subsequently went out for beers with was making $30 a month...

[Seshmeister]

He did a wonderful piece in Vanity Fair a couple of years before he died on Jackie Kennedy, thoughtfully and carefully laying out the case that she was a conniving gold digger who didn't deserve near the amount of adoration and praise lavished upon her by the media: when what she actually accomplished in life (as opposed to what she gained by marriage) was laid out, it made for pretty slim pickings.

He had a similar take on Princess Diana, and wasn't afraid to say so publicly (although he did wait for a decent interval after her death, mostly because he was so stunned people were going totally overboard in their reactions to her death).

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2011/12/hitchens-201112

Just read it - I don't think he is unfair

Also I don't think she was the great beauty that she was played up to be, and neither was Diana. Pretty enough but nothing special until built up by the media.

[78/84 guy]

The secret service agent in the car behind him shot him getting up to respond to the 1st shot Aswald fired.

[Satan]

The secret service agent in the car behind him shot him getting up to respond to the 1st shot Aswald fired.

Impressive work... running fast enough to get in front of the Presidents car, fire the kill shot, which entered his head from the front and blew the back right corner of his skull off, and then run back to the car behind the limo before anybody could see him.

That would deserve some sort of Olympic Assassination Gold Medal. If it ever fucking happened, which of course it didn't.

[Seshmeister]

The secret service agent in the car behind him shot him getting up to respond to the 1st shot Aswald fired.

There are some serious problems with that theory/50th anniversary cash in.

a) It's actually 20 years old - it was originally in an early 1990s book. The accused agent at the time sued and the publisher and author both apologized and settled out of court. He's died a couple of years ago so now can no longer sue. Great news for people who wish to make some money with this.

b) The two most important passengers and known assassination witnesses in the Secret Service follow-up car were NOT Secret Service agents. They were Ken O’Donnell and Dave Powers, two of President Kennedy’s senior staff members and perhaps two of the men closest to him personally outside of his immediate family. Think Toby and Josh in West Wing terms.

They sat in jump seats directly behind three agents in the front seat and directly in front of agent Hickey and two other agents in the rear seat. O’Donnell told the Warren Commission that he had a clear look at JFK’s fatal head shot and called it a “perfect shot.” Had that shot originated a mere foot or two from the back of his own head, as any discharge of Hickey’s AR-15 would have been, O’Donnell would have had no trouble hearing it or locating its source — even without following the smell of the gunpowder.

c) 3 African American men who were co-workers of Oswald were sitting watching the motorcade looking out the window on the floor directly below the window that Oswald fired from. There are still documented photos of them. They testified before the Warren Commission and subsequent inquiry panels. All 3 testified that they heard 3 shots and after each shot they heard the spent casing hit the wooden floor. The floor above them was being repaired and there was only a thin layer of plywood. They even heard the bolt of the rifle go back and forth. Any mention of them in this documentary? No. Just some bogus excuse for the finding of 3 spent casings near the window…that one of them was empty? But the 3 witnesses say the shots they heard above them lined up with the sound of the casings hitting the floor.

d) No solid witnesses. McLaren makes a big deal of trusting witnesses, but more than 100 people there that day thought shots came from the Book Depository or the infamous grassy knoll. No one claimed to see Hickey discharge his weapon directly at the president.

e) There are no pictures or video of him with the rifle out apart from much later and the rifle is pointing up to the sky.

The usual intellectual dishonesty of conspiracy theorists means that you never hear about stuff like that in their books or documentaries.

[78/84 guy]

The bullet entered in the back of his head exploded, and blew of the right side of his head. Unlike the bullet Oswald used. A full metal jacket so to speak. The kind of bullet that will travel through something, which it did, Kennedy. Then into the govener, without exploding. It was an accident and they covered it up.

[Seshmeister]

It's actually one of the few conspiracy theories that can be conclusively be shown to be false.

Hickley was sitting down when the fatal shot hit which is shown in the Charles Bronson (not that one :) ) footage.

http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/images/news/bronson_254_083013.jpg


It's impossible for a start he would have had to fire through the windshield of his own car - with an invisible rifle. Sorry you have been duped by a misleading documentary, blame immoral TV companies.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Presume you're referring to the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Depends on your take of the crisis.

Am not pro or anti-Castro. However, the fact remains the US government (rightly or wrongly) was trying to overthrow the Castro regime. Castro knew he was a target. Was turning to or accepting Soviet nuclear missiles in his country a bit extreme on his part? From our viewpoint, perhaps, but then we didn't have the perspective of a man who had a larger country organizing attempted coups and assassination plots against him.

So, in conclusion, um, how about taking our country to the brink of nuclear war? Does Kennedy get the credit for that, too? Or was JFK blameless in the events that led to Soviet missiles being deployed in Cuba?


Those are valid points, without a doubt....

But at the same time, as the Bay of Pigs fiasco was still ongoing, the Joint Chiefs wanted Kennedy to send in US forces to support them, but JFK said no....

Then again, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, the same military hawks wanted a full invasion of Cuba, basically guaranteeing World War III... Again, JFK said no, used diplomacy and resolved the issue....

I shudder to think what our world would like 50 years later if Reagan or W. Bush was President during those times...

[Satan]

Those are valid points, without a doubt....

But at the same time, as the Bay of Pigs fiasco was still ongoing, the Joint Chiefs wanted Kennedy to send in US forces to support them, but JFK said no....

Then again, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, the same military hawks wanted a full invasion of Cuba, basically guaranteeing World War III... Again, JFK said no, used diplomacy and resolved the issue....

I shudder to think what our world would like 50 years later if Reagan or W. Bush was President during those times...

Reagan would have said "we begin bombing Russia in 5 minutes" only it wouldn't have been a bad joke like it was when he did that mic check in the 80s. Chimpy wouldn't have even bothered with a warning. And if either had been in the White House in 1962, well let's just say immigration to Hell would have increased rapidly right around that time, and none of you would have had to be up there to debate the subject now.

Heaven too, of course, but my Former Employer has a much bigger infrastructure budget than I do.

[Seshmeister]

I shudder to think what our world would like 50 years later if Reagan or W. Bush was President during those times...

"When Kennedy ran for president in 1960, one of his key election issues was an alleged "missile gap" with the Soviets leading. In fact, the United States led the Soviets. In 1961, the Soviets had only four intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs). By October 1962, they may have had a few dozen, although some intelligence estimates were as high as 75.[13]
The United States, on the other hand, had 170 ICBMs and was quickly building more. It also had eight George Washington- and Ethan Allen-class ballistic missile submarines with the capability to launch 16 Polaris missiles each, with a range of 1,400 miles (2,300 km)."

Sounds a bit like Raygun to me.

Plus who was it that upped the ante by putting missiles aimed at the USSR in Turkey?

[Va Beach VH Fan]

"When Kennedy ran for president in 1960, one of his key election issues was an alleged "missile gap" with the Soviets leading. In fact, the United States led the Soviets. In 1961, the Soviets had only four intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs). By October 1962, they may have had a few dozen, although some intelligence estimates were as high as 75.[13]
The United States, on the other hand, had 170 ICBMs and was quickly building more. It also had eight George Washington- and Ethan Allen-class ballistic missile submarines with the capability to launch 16 Polaris missiles each, with a range of 1,400 miles (2,300 km)."

Sounds a bit like Raygun to me.

Plus who was it that upped the ante by putting missiles aimed at the USSR in Turkey?


The missiles in Turkey (and Italy) were technically NATO, not US. I know, I know, semantics....

And, as you know, JFK removed those missiles for peace....

[Kristy]

blame immoral TV companies.

I'm going to start doing that today!

Dear Sirs at Immoral TV Company,

I really must complain...

[Nickdfresh]

I'm don't think he ever reached the levels of Batista...

I dunno know about that, Batista was certainly a corrupt cunt of the highest order, but I think Castro may have exceeded him in the death count of political enemies, although Batista's henchmen were probably even more evil with actual dissidents as far as torture and whatnot...

[Nickdfresh]

The bullet entered in the back of his head exploded, and blew of the right side of his head. Unlike the bullet Oswald used. A full metal jacket so to speak. The kind of bullet that will travel through something, which it did, Kennedy. Then into the govener, without exploding. It was an accident and they covered it up.

The 5.56mm M193 NATO round (fired by the M-16/AR-15) WAS/IS a full metal jacketed round, too. They travel at a high velocity and are ballistically unstable causing them to splinter and yaw in the body and sometimes resulting in horrific wounds. You know what? The Carcano's 6.5mm bullet DOES THE EXACT SAME THING!!

Hopeless, FFS. :rolleyes:

[Nickdfresh]

"When Kennedy ran for president in 1960, one of his key election issues was an alleged "missile gap" with the Soviets leading. In fact, the United States led the Soviets. In 1961, the Soviets had only four intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs). By October 1962, they may have had a few dozen, although some intelligence estimates were as high as 75.[13]
The United States, on the other hand, had 170 ICBMs and was quickly building more. It also had eight George Washington- and Ethan Allen-class ballistic missile submarines with the capability to launch 16 Polaris missiles each, with a range of 1,400 miles (2,300 km)."

Sounds a bit like Raygun to me.

Plus who was it that upped the ante by putting missiles aimed at the USSR in Turkey?

All true. But JFK had begun campaigning about a missile gap and was told this was bullshit later after being read-on. So contradicting himself would have revealed to the Soviets that we had pretty good intelligence on their systems. We also had legitimate fears that the Soviets still held somewhat of an edge in conventional forces and could have conceivably stormed Europe before the U.S. could fully mobilize.

JFK did indeed stand up to some borderline psychotic hardliners like Curtis (fucking crazy) LeMay, who wanted to invaded Cuba and bomb the bejesus out of the commies. Something the Soviets tended to do when one of their communist gov'ts lightened up as in the case of Prague 1968, or collapsed in the case of Hungry 1956! Of course, what we didn't know was that the Soviets had tactical nukes there in addition to the missiles, and almost certainly would have used them on landing Marine and Army divisions if they started to break through the beach defenses. Yes, JFK isn't blameless in the Cuban Missile Crisis, but neither were the Soviets in their aggressive ringing of Berlin. Despite some of his bad policies, JFK still appears to be a cool head that prevented a nuclear catastrophe and wider war...

[Satan]

Castro actually went to the US for help first. Eisenhower knew Batista was a cunt, but he declined to help Fidel overthrow him, so he went knock knock knocking on Kruschev's door.

Why did Ike turn him down? Well, the fact that Prescott Bush was making a shit load of money from Cuban sugar plantations (which Castro would eventually nationalize) probably had a lot to do with it.

Pepsi was buying a lot of that BCE sugar..... which brings us back to Dallas, because Richard Nixon of the BCE just happened to be at a Pepsico board meeting on 11/22/63, in Dallas. Coincidence? maybe.... but it's definitely an odd convergence of players in the whole BCE/Cuba drama.

[78/84 guy]

It's actually one of the few conspiracy theories that can be conclusively be shown to be false.

Hickley was sitting down when the fatal shot hit which is shown in the Charles Bronson (not that one :) ) footage.

http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/images/news/bronson_254_083013.jpg


It's impossible for a start he would have had to fire through the windshield of his own car - with an invisible rifle. Sorry you have been duped by a misleading documentary, blame immoral TV companies.

Have the book. Watched the doc. Sure you haven't been duped ? The photo proves nothing. Could have been the moment he was thrown back in his seat as he stood up. And that's when Hickley could have discharged the gun by accident. This would have happened when the trail car was behind the sign in the film as Kennedys car appears. Also being a car guy I know you step up into a 50s car. A much higher floor than cars built after 1958. The floors did not drop down, you had too step up to get in. So you sat up higher. And the windshields were much lower. The car Hinkley was in was a 55 Caddy. So the bullet could have cleared the windshield. More than a few people smelled gun powder at street level. Not just up by the hill. Even though people ran up there. To find nobody ! Hickley never came out to defend himself in any way shape or form. WHY NOT ? And didn't sue until the book had been out for what ? 2 years ? All the doctors were ordered to sign a gag order. Almost all of the autopsy work they did disappeared ! A few testified too this in the 90s when Clinton reopened the investigation. The doctors were harassed by the secret service. Then they misplace his brain ! PLEEEEESSSEE !! Hell a lady on the sidewalk said in her statement to the police she thought the 2nd car fired at the lead car ! She was never called to testify. Hinkley himself said in his written statement he didn't pull the gun out until they were under the bridge. That's a lie ! The photos prove that. A guy on the bridge smelled gun powder as that car pasted under him ! Interesting anyway. Do I believe it 100 % ? No but it sure sounds possible.

[Seshmeister]

Hickley never came out to defend himself in any way shape or form. WHY NOT ? And didn't sue until the book had been out for what ? 2 years ?

I don't understand these three sentences. He went to all the effort of taking them to court and they settled and apologized. Short of going around to the conspiracy creators house and punching him in the face I don't see how he could defend himself any more than he did.

No one in the conspiracy business brought this nonsensical theory up again until he was dead and couldn't sue them as well. Hinkley isn't holding a gun and he is surrounded by witnesses who back him up.

The power of the JFK story - in what other case would you even consider this theory for a second? :D

[78/84 guy]

You kidding right ? This theory came out in what ? 1977. Bringing someone to court answers the question for you maybe. Not me.

[Terry]

The secret service agent in the car behind him shot him getting up to respond to the 1st shot Aswald fired.

This is the contemporary reprise of the nonsense originally published in Mortal Error, which came out in the early 1990s, although the added twist for today is that the Secret Service told RFK what happened and RFK helped them cover it up.

I'm not going to debunk the theory beyond saying that it just isn't credible. There's no photographic, eye or earwitness testimony to support it, and the reason more conspiracy advocates don't support it is because it does nothing to alter the notion (most strongly supported by the available evidence in the case) that Oswald acted alone.

[Terry]

Those are valid points, without a doubt....

But at the same time, as the Bay of Pigs fiasco was still ongoing, the Joint Chiefs wanted Kennedy to send in US forces to support them, but JFK said no....

Then again, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, the same military hawks wanted a full invasion of Cuba, basically guaranteeing World War III... Again, JFK said no, used diplomacy and resolved the issue....

I shudder to think what our world would like 50 years later if Reagan or W. Bush was President during those times...

Well, Kennedy did use diplomacy and the issue was resolved, but simultaneously he was involved in a physical allocation of military resources on the high seas and engaging in nuclear brinksmanship with not much room for error.

Much of what Kennedy did during the crisis was in response to what the Soviets were doing, and it can be argued that he didn't have many good choices...

The Bay of Pigs is a different matter. Kennedy obviously inherited this program from Eisenhower and was probably duped to a degree as to what the chances of success were, but considering the missile crisis a year later and the stakes involved in THAT, how smart was it in retrospect to allow the Bay of Pigs invasion to collapse without any US military support?

It was just an odd way of utilizing the military. JFK and RFK were enthralled with notions of counterinsurgency, but there was no such thing as getting a little bit pregnant when it came to Cuba...or Vietnam. To have any chance of winning, you had to go all in, balls-deep, sooner than later and not in terms of gradual escalation.

I'd agree that W.Bush being in there during those times would be a disaster, but Reagan (whom I have no particular love for) wasn't nearly as much a warmonger as the myth of his reputation would have one believe (as his response to the 1983 Korean airplane shootdown by the Russians demonstrates).

[Seshmeister]

You kidding right ? This theory came out in what ? 1977. Bringing someone to court answers the question for you maybe. Not me.

*sigh*

I hope that people only do this with the big conspiracy theories otherwise it really makes you worry about the jury system.

[Terry]

*sigh*

I hope that people only do this with the big conspiracy theories otherwise it really makes you worry about the jury system.

Then again it's like that old joke about who would want a jury consisting of 6 to 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty in the first place?

[78/84 guy]

When you have hard evidence this isn't what happened get back to me. As far as court goes. Ask Ron Goldmans dad what he thinks of our wonderful justice system ! O.J. had to steal a autograph of himself to end up in jail !

[Seshmeister]

It didn't even reach court because with 100 eye witness testimonies, photographs and forensics all against them, the publishers had no option but to settle.

[Never was]

To believe the lone gunmen requires believing one bullet caused 7 separate wounds on two different people. The primary recipient of that bullet Gov. Connally has stated he was shot after Kennedy, that simply put the time difference is just too long to believe. He testified he had no doubt he was hit with a seperate bullet and the holes in his clothes and body are consistent with a clean bullet and not a damaged bullet. If 4 shots the timeline does not support the conclusion. The lone gunman also fails to explain bullet damage to the windshield, the windshield frame, plus the accidental bystander who also states the bullet that hit at his feet came from elsewhere. Three bullets simply do not match the physical evidence and more than three destroys the timeline.

The motion of Kennedy's body is misinterpreted by both conspiracy and lone gunmen theories. Kennedy's back brace which he was wearing was extremely stiff and alters how he body moves. The P&T clip is correct in regard movement sans back brace. It is also correct that the crater in the melon is on the opposite side of the entry point.

The crater wound on Kennedy was on the back of his head not the front. They didn't intend to but holding up that melon actually damages the Oswald was alone theory.

[Never was]

The massive fragmenting in the brain tissue itself is also consistent with one or two soft tipped bullets which in inconsistent with the metal sleeve bullets in Oswald's gun, this was noted by both the coroner and FBI agents during the autopsy. It was also noted that the back wound entry point the coroner could feel the end of the wound with his finger, request to dissect that wound was denied as was a request for the throat wound. The denial may have been as simple as trying to cover Kennedy's Addison disease or a more corrupt motive. Regardless of motive the inability to dissect makes evidence to prove or disprove the magic bullet theory elusive.

[Terry]

The only (and all of the) fragments retrieved from the limosine, Kennedy and Connally were all determined to match up with the spent shells that were fired from Oswald's rifle.

[Terry]

When you have hard evidence this isn't what happened get back to me. As far as court goes. Ask Ron Goldmans dad what he thinks of our wonderful justice system ! O.J. had to steal a autograph of himself to end up in jail !

See above post.

[Never was]

The folks that conducted the autopsy disagree. The fragments from skull and brain tissue are not consistent not with Oswald's rifle or with metal sleeve bullets. That was determined 4 days after the shooting. It is SA Sibert's and Oneil's report as well as confirmed by the doctor. That is not my view, it is the FBI's. The same reports note that the back wound is on a 60 degree downward angle, is very shallow and has no exit. If it never exited according to those who examined the body how does the magic bullet theory works? Also, Connally himself says that was not the bullet that shot him.

I never mentioned fragments in the limo, I cited damage done in more places than possible with three bullets.

I'm not endorsing any specific conspiracy but the physical evidence does not support the lone gunmen. That is simply false or inconclusive. The surviving victims Connelly and the bystander victim dismiss the lone gunmen, the FBI SA and doctor whom examined the body also.

[Zing!]

The lone gunman also fails to explain bullet damage to the windshield, the windshield frame...

The same windshield that was switched out, repaired (along with the rest of the limo) and the damaged one destroyed within 48 hours of the assassination? Nope, nothin to see here, folks - move along...

[Never was]

The limo was refurbished and actually was in service for 13 more years. First how creepy must it have been to ride in it again and secondly why the hell would they still put a US president in a freaking convertible again let alone that specific one.

[Seshmeister]

All I'm saying is take a step back, look at all the evidence and make a balanced decision on the probability.

Don't read one of the 5000 books and take it at face value when it ignores all the evidence that doesn't fit.

Also remember that if something happens which is either a fuck up or a massively detailed plot the chance that it is a fuck up is a lot more likely.

Particularly if the government is involved and even more so if it is something that hasn't happened before.

[Never was]

Simple is usually true and why citing every coincidence as part of a conspiracy is fruitless. For example not examining Kennedy's back is consistent with protecting what was at the time still a health secret about Kennedy. Bust was in Dallas, yes travel logs confirm but he was there on dozens of occasions. So on and so on...
There is nothing simple or physically possible about a bullet traveling 84 yards on a 50 degree angle, reversing to an upward trajectory, traveling 2.25 to the left, then flattening its trajectory exiting cleaning, then causing 5 more wounds and a second person. This bullet did so while leaving no evidence of exiting and the exam of the wound found it to be shallow. So what probability are you assigning to that?

Exam of the body is one of the central pieces of evidence in any murder. That physical evidence does not support the single gunmen and the probabilities of physics dictate the magic bullet is not feasible. If no magic bullet how does the balance of evidence make the depository the sole source of shots?

Now taking the conclusion of the evidence pointing to more than one shooter and assigning that to a political movement 50 years later is stretching it beyond the evidence. But it also stretching physics and evidence to say three bullets from a lone gunmen.

[Seshmeister]

Your position is close to where I used to be and the Occams Razor approach is usually the correct one.

A reason I'm now with the sole shooter thing is that the magic bullet to me is a lot less unlikely than someone else just choosing that same moment to shoot at Kennedy.

Oswald was a shooter and hugely unlikely to be part of a conspiracy.

That and Ruby being a fruitcake.

Plus all the tons of evidence that the conspiracy people never mention because it doesn't fit.

Seeing all the bullshit conspiracy crap that went on with 9-11 made me go back and look at JFK again - it's all the same highly selective evidence building supposition on top of supposition.

[Nickdfresh]

To believe the lone gunmen requires believing one bullet caused 7 separate wounds on two different people.

Something that is not particularly unusual...


The primary recipient of that bullet Gov. Connally has stated he was shot after Kennedy, that simply put the time difference is just too long to believe. He testified he had no doubt he was hit with a seperate bullet and the holes in his clothes and body are consistent with a clean bullet and not a damaged bullet. If 4 shots the timeline does not support the conclusion. The lone gunman also fails to explain bullet damage to the windshield, the windshield frame, plus the accidental bystander who also states the bullet that hit at his feet came from elsewhere. Three bullets simply do not match the physical evidence and more than three destroys the timeline.

I have no idea what this means, it just sounds like nitpicking gibberish...


The motion of Kennedy's body is misinterpreted by both conspiracy and lone gunmen theories. Kennedy's back brace which he was wearing was extremely stiff and alters how he body moves. The P&T clip is correct in regard movement sans back brace. It is also correct that the crater in the melon is on the opposite side of the entry point.

The crater wound on Kennedy was on the back of his head not the front. They didn't intend to but holding up that melon actually damages the Oswald was alone theory.

There's no question that JFK would never have worn anything that overly restricted movement, he was all about projecting strength and vitality. Again, this seems all assumptive and speculative. As for the head-wound, it was on the rear SIDE of the skull. If the bullet blew apart on impact inside of his head, the wounds are very consistent with a hollowing out effect and the shattering of the skull. You can't have it both ways. You can't talk about "full metal jacket bullets" exploding, then offer arguments based on the "entry vs. exit wound" arguments. Kennedy's wound was essentially both and entry and exit wound based on the angle of the hit and the characteristic of the high velocity Carcano round...

[Nickdfresh]

The massive fragmenting in the brain tissue itself is also consistent with one or two soft tipped bullets which in inconsistent with the metal sleeve bullets in Oswald's gun, this was noted by both the coroner and FBI agents during the autopsy. It was also noted that the back wound entry point the coroner could feel the end of the wound with his finger, request to dissect that wound was denied as was a request for the throat wound. The denial may have been as simple as trying to cover Kennedy's Addison disease or a more corrupt motive. Regardless of motive the inability to dissect makes evidence to prove or disprove the magic bullet theory elusive.

Complete and utter bullshit! Read my responses! An AR-15/M-16 round was also a full metal jacket, and they were known for fragmenting and even exploding at short ranges. The 6.5mm Carcano round was also a somewhat ballistically unstable, high velocity bullet. The full metal jackets have fuckall to do with it and there are numerous full metal jacketed military rounds known to have severe ballistic wounding effects not unlike "dum dum" ammunition. The Nazi German SS massacred an entire unit of British soldiers in France, 1940, because the commander believed they were using dirty, dum dum ammunition against his troopers during a brief farmhouse siege. In fact, the Brits were using standard .303 "full metal jacket" ammo that sometimes broke apart on impact...

[78/84 guy]

The only (and all of the) fragments retrieved from the limosine, Kennedy and Connally were all determined to match up with the spent shells that were fired from Oswald's rifle.

Fucking determined by who ? The secret service ? The Warren Commissin ? Again are guys sure you haven't been duped ? Complete BULLSHIT !

[78/84 guy]

It didn't even reach court because with 100 eye witness testimonies, photographs and forensics all against them, the publishers had no option but to settle.

Forensics ? The only real forensics work I have seen was done by the guy how had the theory for the book you guy's are dismissing ! The same guy that figured out how the magic bullet DID travel through Kennedy and Connally.

[Zing!]

Your position is close to where I used to be and the Occams Razor approach is usually the correct one.

A reason I'm now with the sole shooter thing is that the magic bullet to me is a lot less unlikely than someone else just choosing that same moment to shoot at Kennedy.

Oswald was a shooter and hugely unlikely to be part of a conspiracy.

That and Ruby being a fruitcake.

Plus all the tons of evidence that the conspiracy people never mention because it doesn't fit.

Seeing all the bullshit conspiracy crap that went on with 9-11 made me go back and look at JFK again - it's all the same highly selective evidence building supposition on top of supposition.

I gotta get me a pair of those rose-tinted glasses! They sound amazing!

[Nickdfresh]

Fucking determined by who ? The secret service ? The Warren Commissin ? Again are guys sure you haven't been duped ? Complete BULLSHIT !

If they wanted to use Oswald as part of a conspiracy to "cover it up," why not give him a better rifle or a more plausible and complex story to blame some one else?

[ELVIS]

:rolleyes:

[Satan]

If they wanted to use Oswald as part of a conspiracy to "cover it up," why not give him a better rifle or a more plausible and complex story to blame some one else?

Well... in all fairness, Oswald didn't have much of an opportunity to tell his story at all.

At least not to you mortals. While I, on the other horn, have heard his story, Jack Ruby's story, George DeMohrenschildt's story, Arlen Specter's story, Jerry Ford's story, and pretty much everyone else involved.... except for the guy who supervised the whole thing, as he's not here yet.

Naturally, I have also talked to JFK himself, but of course he didn't see much, from his vantage point.... except for knowing that he caught one bullet in the throat, and then another one in the forehead, which blew out a chunk of his skull. After that, he understandably wasn't aware of all that much.

[ELVIS]

Dude...

You're not really the devil...


:biggrin:

[Terry]

If there was a conspiracy with multiple shooters in multiple locations as part of the plot, and the object was to frame Oswald as a lone assassin, this makes no sense on the face of it for the simple reason that multiple shooters in multiple locations leaves the door open for multiple chances of eyewitnesses to detect such shots. If Oswald was an unknowing patsy or dupe, then the success of such a frame-up would be contingent on having Oswald remain somewhere at the time of the shots that wasn't on the 6th floor (so Oswald wouldn't see whoever was shooting from there) and also wasn't in view of anyone else who could later claim that Oswald was with them or in their sight at the time the shots were fired. In this scenario, there would be no way for the conspirators to prevent Oswald from leaving the building to watch the motorcade. There would also be no way of controlling others working at the Texas School Book Depository from not wandering onto the 6th floor if the scenario is that someone else who wasn't working there fired the shots from there. It is also curious that Oswald was the only person who worked at the Texas School Book Depository who left work after the assassination not to return, and told nobody there that he was leaving.

Oswald lied to the police about owning a rifle or a pistol. He initially refused to tell them his real name. He drew his pistol on police as they were arresting him at the Texas theater with the intent to shoot. What is one to make of these things?

According to all the witnesses interviewed by various law enforcement agencies and news outlets at the time of the assassination (not taking into account how some people i.e. Jean Hill gradually changed their stories over the years in subsequent recountings), the overwhleming percentage (higher than 85%) thought all the shots originated from behind the limousine. The remaining 15% were divided pretty much evenly between those thinking some (not all) of the shots may have come from the knoll area and those who weren't sure where the shots were fired from. The same overwhleming percentage claimed to have heard three shots fired. Several witnesses saw a man with a rifle in the 6th floor sniper's nest prior to the shots, although nobody saw the man actually firing. One witness also saw a rifle barrel being withdrawn back into that same window after the shots stopped. All of these witnesses made this known to Dallas police at the time of the event. Contrast this with nobody at the time of the event making similar claims about the grassy knoll area or anywhere else.

Looking at the Zapruder film, after frame 312 the rear of Kennedy's head is clearly visible after the head snap. All that is seen there is hair, as opposed to the side of his head from the earline forward toward (but not including) the ridge of the brow. Where exactly is this massive, gaping head wound in the back of Kennedy's head that some of the Parkland trauma surgeons who worked on Kennedy describe ten or more years later as seeing (odd, since all them admit that Kennedy wasn't turned over in a manner that would have made such a view possible during their lifesaving efforts to begin with)?

[Kristy]

...and the object was to frame Oswald as a lone assassin, this makes no sense on the face of it for the simple reason that multiple shooters in multiple locations leaves the door open for multiple chances of eyewitnesses to detect such shots.

Ha! There's your "conspiracy theory " right there. Many claimed to not have seen other shooter(s) but to have heard them. Then there was the 70's films on that very subject where those who spoke out on the possibility of other shooters mysteriously turned up dead. Fucking cool or what!?

[Terry]

Ha! There's your "conspiracy theory " right there. Many claimed to not have seen other shooter(s) but to have heard them. Then there was the 70's films on that very subject where those who spoke out on the possibility of other shooters mysteriously turned up dead. Fucking cool or what!?

Yeah, but it wasn't all that many. In point of fact, it was less than 10% of the eyewitnesses in Dealey. And even then those said they thought it was possible one of the shots came from somewhere other than behind the limousine.

As for all the 'mystery deaths' it always struck me that the majority of them were concerning people who had the most dubious links to the assassination, whereas people like Jean Hill, S.M. Holland and the relative few who said some of the shots sounded like they came from the knoll all lived long lives and died uneventful deaths. You know, it's always along the lines of some jackass who knew a stripper who knew another stripper who met Jack Ruby once who dies in a car accident that is then called 'mysterious' while those who actually handled Kennedy's body that day and saw the wounds or those who were actually in the plaza live their lives unmolested (in some cases, appearing on tv shows over a period of decades offering their ever-changing versions of what the body looked like or what happened in the motorcade or whatever else they have to offer that 'proves' a conspiracy).

[Satan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zOsqoL39DQ

[Satan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuqJ4__m3y4

[Satan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbBPqriYrwE

[Satan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUoUTZMpAAk

[78/84 guy]

If they wanted to use Oswald as part of a conspiracy to "cover it up," why not give him a better rifle or a more plausible and complex story to blame some one else?

I never said he didn't take 3 shot's. I believe the magic bullet theory. It was proven for the most part it could have passed through both men. I think Oswald did get him with that one. The last head shot is what I thought we were debating. Not that we will ever know. I just think for this guy to be accused of killing Kennedy in like 1977 and NEVER coming out too defend himself in any way, shape or form is very interesting. I would have been on every t.v. show and radio show crying bullshit ! Find it interesting he didn't. Why ? Hit List is a good book also.

[vh rides again]

You dumbfucking sockpuppet.

JFK is neither the liberal romanticist's Prince of Camelot; nor is he the Machiavellian "son-of-a-bootlegger." He was a complex man that was flawed. But he was also without a doubt a war hero that saved his men from certain death. Mind you, while doing this while suffering from such severe, chronic back-pain he should never have served in WWII, let alone on a PT Boat. But nearly all of his crew held him in high regard, and what is lost in all the PT109 stuff is that LT Jack Kennedy was one of the key architects from transforming the PT Boats from their largely useless function as torpedo boats into coastal gunboats and "barge-busters," and he devised tactics which contributed to blockading Japanese garrisons and in itself probably saved untold lives.

As for doing his wife a 'favor': when she was picking his brain matter off the truck of the car they were riding in that day in Dallas and stuffing it back into his head, a Secret Service agent heard her whimper something to the affect of "Oh God Jack! what have they done to you? I love you."

I seriously doubt anyone gives that much of a fuck about a bitter, weak Iowa fucktard like you...

Maybe the country should hold the 4 that were slaughtered in Benghazi and betrayed by odumbfuck and that dipshit Hillary in such high regard then right?
At least they died for their country.

Fuck you and JFK , your both dirt balls .

[Satan]

Maybe the country should hold the 4 that were slaughtered in Benghazi and betrayed by odumbfuck and that dipshit Hillary in such high regard then right?
At least they died for their country.

Really? I had no idea they were Libyans.


Fuck you and JFK , your both dirt balls .

Fuck you, fuck the Hitler funding BCE, fuck the Stalin funded KKKoch Brothers, and fuck anybody who thinks Ayn Rand wrote anything other than horrible fiction.

[vh rides again]

Really? I had no idea they were Libyans.



Fuck you, fuck the Hitler funding BCE, fuck the Stalin funded KKKoch Brothers, and fuck anybody who thinks Ayn Rand wrote anything other than horrible fiction.whatever goofball, go take your medication.

[Nickdfresh]

Maybe the country should hold the 4 that were slaughtered in Benghazi and betrayed by odumbfuck and that dipshit Hillary in such high regard then right?

At least they died for their country.

Why? Are you too busy to give a fuck about the over FOUR FUCKING THOUSAND American Service Personnel you voted to death in Iraq? Like you give you a fuck about anybody but yourself and your shitty precious paycheck and the political figures you can blame for everyone thinking you're a deranged asshole!

Fucking please you disingenuous cunt! Like you ever gave a shit any of them!




Fuck you and JFK , your both dirt balls .

Well, we're both guys that served and risked our lives to varying degrees so fucking monosyllabic shitheads like you can prattle on about American "Exceptionalism" and security contractors you really don't give two shits about while your dumb kids are going to be eaten alive by the Chinese because fuckheads like you could care less. Eat my asshole, 4Morequeer...

[Kristy]

I love it when Niki goes all out original. How I miss those days.

[Nickdfresh]

Stream of consciousness...

[Hardrock69]

When I read shit as as this what truly scares me about these people is not their warped call to violence but their disillusion that brought them there. These are the same assholes that jack-whatever and Elvis associate with as being "beacons of freedom" in a land of fictional paranoia because they use Colonial terms as if that's all needed for self-entitlement. Their minds are so poisoned and distorted that anything goes in their book (as they make it up as they go along); bringing a loaded semi-automatic weapon to a rally is hardly the Constitutional ideal of a non-violent protest, publicly verbalizing unwarranted death threats to a U.S. President is also hardly patriotic and condemning other religions that don't gel with their own God is not freedom.

It's the proverbial example of the blind leading the perpetually stupid into a self-militant cult of death. None of them as far as I can see want freedom. They want power - power to freely abuse minorities, women, the ill, and most of all, the poor. They would rather see Obama murdered in cold blood than help their fellow man to a better quality of life while all the time cloaking their racist, misogynistic, xenophobic views under the guise of the Second Amendment only to cry foul and victimize themselves when someone with a educational background on history clearly points out their hatred. They are parasites of fear and self-interest. Their nature is predatory and aggressive. Their behavior is unpredictable and paranoid. They offer no hope for America because not one of them has any to give.


:clap:

[Hardrock69]

So I finally got around to reading this stuff.


Amazingly there were a couple of things left out.

Here is a list of shots, based on the magic bullet theory not being true, along with other info. It lists 7 shots minimum. If the Magic Bullet theory IS true, that only accounts for 2 or 3 shots...the one through Kennedy's back, and the one or two that hit Governor Connelly.

There are photos as well. One thing I never had seen before....that is the Stemmons Freeway sign. Before the motorcade the letter "O" was normal, but right after the assassination, it looked like the letter O had been disfigured as if it were blown out from the side of the sign where the grassy knoll is.

http://www.jfk-lecomplot.com/english/7/

The two motorcycle cops behind the limo were sprayed with brains and bone matter. Something went through JFK's skull from the front and exited the rear. The doctor who treated JFK at Parkland saw an exit wound at the back of his head. This is a man who had seen many gunshot wounds in his career and would not have mistaken an entry wound for an exit wound.


Also, Dallas was not the first attempt. Two earlier attempts failed to take out the President.

1. A plot by four men to kill JFK during his Chicago motorcade planned for November 2, 1963. An ex-Marine (with several recent parallels to Oswald) was arrested, but the four men remained at large. So, JFK had to cancel his motorcade at the last minute.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3902495

2) The Tampa attempt on Nov. 18, 1963 had more than a dozen parallels to JFK’s assassination in Dallas, including a male suspect in his early twenties linked to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. The Police and Secret Service warned JFK about the threat, but JFK went ahead with the motorcade anyway, because of an important speech about Cuba he had to give in Miami that night. One of the parallels with the Dallas shooting was that the same limo was used in Tampa.

It’s important to note that around the same time Oswald moved to a new city (Dallas, from New Orleans) and got a new job, so did the ex-Marine arrested at the time of the 11/2/63 Chicago attempt against JFK and the young man linked to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee who was investigated by authorities after the 11/18/63 Tampa attempt to assassinate JFK.

Also Jack Ruby was in Chicago only a week before the Chicago attempt.

Here is some further info. 2 guys wrote a book (like so many others) published in 2005 with a lot of previously unreleased info:

http://www.salon.com/2005/12/01/excerpt_5/


Overall, I don't give a fuck anymore. He had pissed off everyone and every organization on this planet you do NOT want to piss off. They all got what they wanted when they took him out, and they got away with it.

I saw one overriding question on one site that makes absolute sense.


Just say that Oswald (the lone nut) did it by himself. And that Jack Ruby killed Oswald. On his own with no connection to each other. They were not working for anyone as part of a conspiracy.
They never met. Were both working independently of each other to make their mark in history.

Lets say the Magic Bullet theory is actually what happened.

Let us pretend the findings of the Warren Commission are the gospel truth.

That the official government story is absolutely true.


Then why are there still over a million pages of classified documents?

Documents that are classified because declassifying them would endanger "national security".


Two, lone nutjobs cannot endanger "national security".

Certainly not even 10, 20, 50 years or more after the event.

The only reason these documents remain classified is because the government has something to hide.

Most definitely a conspiracy to withhold the truth from the public is being perpetrated even NOW.

If that were not true, all documents would have been declassified and released to the public decades ago.

I am done with this shit. :D

[FORD]

I've heard Lamar Waldron discuss his theory on Thom Hartmann's radio show several times. His mob theory makes sense on some levels - Jack Ruby certainly had connections with Chicago "families", for example. And the mob was very angry about losing influence in Cuba after Castro's revolution. But then, so was the BCE. Prescott owned a sugar plantation that supplied Pepsi, among others. Curiously enough, Dick Nixon (career BCE puppet) just happened to be at a Pepsi board meeting in Dallas on 11/22/63. Bizzare coincidence? Maybe.... but what a small world, huh? Even smaller when you consider Nixon & Ruby knew each other since 1947.

But there are two things the mob just could NOT have done: They could not change the motorcade route to put JFK's car directly in front of the book depository AND the grassy knoll. (The original route was a block away from both) and they could not order the Secret Service agents in the motorcade to "stand down" just literally seconds before the assassination. These facts alone make it an inside job.

[Seshmeister]

One thing to remember is that it's like religion.

If one of the conspiracy theories is correct then all of the hundreds of others are wrong.

[Seshmeister]

But there are two things the mob just could NOT have done: They could not change the motorcade route to put JFK's car directly in front of the book depository AND the grassy knoll. (The original route was a block away from both)

That's just JFK conspiracy industry hokum.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/route.htm

[Hardrock69]

I have to laugh when newbies like evilletwin encounter the Krustybot, anjd think it is a real person. :lmao:

[Nitro Express]

Couldn't help yourself, could you? For one, have you ever fired this weapon? I have. It's a pile of shit for a mass production rifle. The movable mechanisms were unreliable for battle and two, the half-ass Italian manufacturing sub-par; shit stock, sloppy bolt action, crappy machine boring. So let me tell you what that means: a inaccurate rifle as a whole; firing a rifle with accurate results is much more than just simple siting of a target. I've fired Mausers, too also a mass-production weapon built in several places throughout Europe (the Czech ones being the most solid) but unlike this piece of shit, it was designed with combat environments in mind. My uncle owned several that he built from "pickle barrel" parts and they fired with greater accuracy with little forethought as if one was in battle where his life deepened upon his weapon. I have no doubt a Carcano ended up costing the life of the one handling it than using it. Total pile of shit.

Any weapon will kill if used for its sole intended purpose - even a Carcano and quite possibly a Carcano 38 put a bullet in Kennedy's skull but it would take far more than luck to do it again with a second bullet that quick. Sloppy, sloppy bolt action even for a new one.

Yup. Czech BRNO made Mausers are nice rifles. I've built a few nice hunting rifles using Czech receivers.

[Seshmeister]

Since ELVIS isn't around to have posted this the latest conspiracy theory is about Joan Rivers.

Just before she died she made a tweet insulting Beyonce.
Joan Rivers was 81.
Beyonce was born in 1981!

Joan Rivers was born in 1933.
Yet Beyonce WAS 33.

Makes you think...

[FORD]

Is this part of the lunacy theory that says Beyonce is secretly an agent of Satan and part of the Illuminati?

[Seshmeister]

I could believe the first part of that... :)

[FORD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dYE5_mJtTA

[vandeleur]

I would still do her if it meant peace on earth :) watch with the sound off to get the full effect.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHp2KgyQUFk