A bit of reflection

[BrownSound1]

I was talking with my son today and he asked me why I disliked Sammy Hagar being in Van Halen....So after some thought..(I have to watch my language around the kids) I began telling him the story of what happened way back when. I'm going to share my thoughts...some may agree, most will disagree, but I don't care. This is how I see it.

When Dave left Van Halen I was heartbroken. I didn't know why he decided to bolt, and at the time I thought he just figured he was big enough to break off on his own. Anyway my favorite band was gone, and I wondered what would become of the members. I figured Dave would do very well on his own, but I just couldn't imagine what the remaining members would do without him or who could replace "The Greatest Frontman in Rock History." It was a troubling time indeed, especially knowing they almost had an album in the can.

I remember quite vividly hearing tons of rumors about replacements for Dave...all star record, Patty Smythe (sp?), etc. None of those seemed right in my mind. Then I remember catching Eddie on the Farm Aid benefit, and Hagar was playing with him....didn't think much of it really, just figured they were jamming. Anyway, along comes the announcement that Hagar was going to front the band. I certainly didn't blame Hagar for taking the job...you'd be a fool not to take something that big if you were offered it. I was very curious as to how they would sound, especially knowing Hagar played a bit of guitar himself, you know I thought it could be interesting.

Jump forward a bit and the new Van Hagar song Why Can't This Be Love is on the radio. I remember hearing it and thinking "Where's the blistering guitar?" I couldn't believe it to be honest...that's NOT Van Halen. However, I gave them a chance and bought the album. I could hear glimpses of the old VH, but this was different shit. Not totally awful, but not what I was expecting at all. I had not yet gotten to the point of hating Hagar..but it wouldn't take long.

Ok...here is where it gets hairy....At first, and I can't believe I'm saying this, I thought Hagar was o.k., not spectacular, but not terrible. That changed as soon as I heard the opening of Dreams and Love Walks In. I've always hated ballads of that sort, and I took great pride in the fact that Van HALEN didn't do love ballads. Here comes Sambo, and Eddie pulls that shit out. I was hoping it was just Ed releasing some creative tension, knowing Dave wouldn't stand for that type of song. Boy was I wrong!!

Now, on April 1, 1986 I go to see Van Hagar in concert. I was counting on them playing a kick ass show of Van Halen tunes...however, much to my dismay they don't. Opened the show with You Really Got Me I believe...then later I hear Panama, Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love, and finally Jump. I was like...where the fuck is Runnin' With the Devil...Romeo Delight, Unchained, Hot for Teacher, etc. I was fucking PISSED. Van Hagar plays their new shit, then instead of busting out one of the old tunes they go into Wild Thing. I just couldn't believe they weren't playing what they were known for. Plus, I got REALLY pissed at the way Hagar fucked up the Panama rap, and his refusal to actually sing Jump. Big mistake Samuel Roy Hagar! The only thing I loved in the whole show was the solos...even though I had heard it all before on previous tours. :D

Next show I catch that year is none other than David Lee Roth. Now this show is what I remembered a Van Halen show to be. Dave's stage even had that VH wall of white speakers look. He broke out most everything I wanted to hear at the Van Hagar show. His band kicked total ass...although I didn't care for Gregg Bissonette's playing that much. I thought that Dave had taken all of the magic with him when he left, and I really didn't give Van Hagar much of a chance after that.

So...here's the thing....this is where I really thought Sammy should fuck off. Sammy started getting involved in the Ed, Al, Mike, vs. Dave thing. First off, he had no fucking right to say a damn thing about Dave. I know you guys have seen Live Without a Net....there is a part where Sammy picks up some chick's shoes and asks everyone if the shoes are theirs. He says, "Hey Eddie, are they yours? They sure as hell ain't mine....must have been left up here by someone else," and Eddie is giving him the cut sign..as in "Sam, shut the fuck up." An obvious reference to Dave, I do believe. If I remember correctly he also makes a reference that he has a pair of balls and can't do the splits or a jump or some shit. I haven't seen that video in years..so it's a little cloudy. Anyway, he was making another reference to Dave....which shows NO class.

I guess what I'm trying to say with all of this babbling is, I would not have disliked Hagar so much if he had done two things. One was keep his fucking mouth shut and stay out of the feud. The other was acknowledge the old stuff. His refusal to do any of that besides just a handful of tunes really shows you what kind of person he is. One thing I'll say for Cherone is he did appreciate the old stuff...that's about all I'll say for him though.

Enough from me...my Jack Daniel's is wearing off.

[Sarge's Little Helper]

I was talking with my son today and he asked me why I disliked Sammy Hagar being in Van Halen....So after some thought..(I have to watch my language around the kids) I began telling him the story of what happened way back when. I'm going to share my thoughts...some may agree, most will disagree, but I don't care. This is how I see it.

When Dave left Van Halen I was heartbroken. I didn't know why he decided to bolt, and at the time I thought he just figured he was big enough to break off on his own. Anyway my favorite band was gone, and I wondered what would become of the members. I figured Dave would do very well on his own, but I just couldn't imagine what the remaining members would do without him or who could replace "The Greatest Frontman in Rock History." It was a troubling time indeed, especially knowing they almost had an album in the can.

I remember quite vividly hearing tons of rumors about replacements for Dave...all star record, Patty Smythe (sp?), etc. None of those seemed right in my mind. Then I remember catching Eddie on the Farm Aid benefit, and Hagar was playing with him....didn't think much of it really, just figured they were jamming. Anyway, along comes the announcement that Hagar was going to front the band. I certainly didn't blame Hagar for taking the job...you'd be a fool not to take something that big if you were offered it. I was very curious as to how they would sound, especially knowing Hagar played a bit of guitar himself, you know I thought it could be interesting.

Jump forward a bit and the new Van Hagar song Why Can't This Be Love is on the radio. I remember hearing it and thinking "Where's the blistering guitar?" I couldn't believe it to be honest...that's NOT Van Halen. However, I gave them a chance and bought the album. I could hear glimpses of the old VH, but this was different shit. Not totally awful, but not what I was expecting at all. I had not yet gotten to the point of hating Hagar..but it wouldn't take long.

Ok...here is where it gets hairy....At first, and I can't believe I'm saying this, I thought Hagar was o.k., not spectacular, but not terrible. That changed as soon as I heard the opening of Dreams and Love Walks In. I've always hated ballads of that sort, and I took great pride in the fact that Van HALEN didn't do love ballads. Here comes Sambo, and Eddie pulls that shit out. I was hoping it was just Ed releasing some creative tension, knowing Dave wouldn't stand for that type of song. Boy was I wrong!!

Now, on April 1, 1986 I go to see Van Hagar in concert. I was counting on them playing a kick ass show of Van Halen tunes...however, much to my dismay they don't. Opened the show with You Really Got Me I believe...then later I hear Panama, Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love, and finally Jump. I was like...where the fuck is Runnin' With the Devil...Romeo Delight, Unchained, Hot for Teacher, etc. I was fucking PISSED. Van Hagar plays their new shit, then instead of busting out one of the old tunes they go into Wild Thing. I just couldn't believe they weren't playing what they were known for. Plus, I got REALLY pissed at the way Hagar fucked up the Panama rap, and his refusal to actually sing Jump. Big mistake Samuel Roy Hagar! The only thing I loved in the whole show was the solos...even though I had heard it all before on previous tours. :D

Next show I catch that year is none other than David Lee Roth. Now this show is what I remembered a Van Halen show to be. Dave's stage even had that VH wall of white speakers look. He broke out most everything I wanted to hear at the Van Hagar show. His band kicked total ass...although I didn't care for Gregg Bissonette's playing that much. I thought that Dave had taken all of the magic with him when he left, and I really didn't give Van Hagar much of a chance after that.

So...here's the thing....this is where I really thought Sammy should fuck off. Sammy started getting involved in the Ed, Al, Mike, vs. Dave thing. First off, he had no fucking right to say a damn thing about Dave. I know you guys have seen Live Without a Net....there is a part where Sammy picks up some chick's shoes and asks everyone if the shoes are theirs. He says, "Hey Eddie, are they yours? They sure as hell ain't mine....must have been left up here by someone else," and Eddie is giving him the cut sign..as in "Sam, shut the fuck up." An obvious reference to Dave, I do believe. If I remember correctly he also makes a reference that he has a pair of balls and can't do the splits or a jump or some shit. I haven't seen that video in years..so it's a little cloudy. Anyway, he was making another reference to Dave....which shows NO class.

I guess what I'm trying to say with all of this babbling is, I would not have disliked Hagar so much if he had done two things. One was keep his fucking mouth shut and stay out of the feud. The other was acknowledge the old stuff. His refusal to do any of that besides just a handful of tunes really shows you what kind of person he is. One thing I'll say for Cherone is he did appreciate the old stuff...that's about all I'll say for him though.

Enough from me...my Jack Daniel's is wearing off.

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Tell me again what is going on.

[tjvhou812]

well dave was great in vh,but he walked out...

you dont like dreams or love walks in.

but did you like california girls

or just a gigalo..

when i heard that shit i was pissed....

i mean dave left the greatest band in the world to make a shitty record

[Panamark]

In Australia we had no idea who Spammy was. His solo career
was unheard of here. I heard Dreams, etc off 5150 thinking, this shit
really sucks. All of this before I even knew what he looked like.
Then the videos from 5150 !! Heres this nerdy looking Poodle Headed
fucker with a headset on poofing around in front of Van Halen.

It was that moment where I started to hate him.

Now hate is a powerful word, in real life I dont hate the guy as a
person (yeah yeah, even with all the bullshit he spouts),
but I hate him in Van Halen. It was a really bad choice as a
replacement for Dave. If they got some athletic long blonde
haired charismatic dude, who had a good rock voice, you
would think, ok Fair enough. But Sammy is more suited
to Chicago, Journey REO Speedwagon type of balladeering.

So its not only his voice, but his look and image. This is
why I hate the dude.

Hey, if I met him in real life, I would probably have a beer
with the dude. But he really shouldnt be in Van Halen.

[ELVIS]

Awesome post Brownsound!

100% my feelings and recollection...

You brought me down memory lane...

I was living in seattle when I heard Why Can't This Be Love...

I remember thinking .. Where's the guitar ???

:elvis:

[BrownSound1]

Originally posted by tjvhou812
well dave was great in vh,but he walked out...

you dont like dreams or love walks in.

but did you like california girls

or just a gigalo..

when i heard that shit i was pissed....

i mean dave left the greatest band in the world to make a shitty record

In regards to Dave doing California Girls, etc., I had no problem with him doing that. Dave was the ONLY hard rock singer I could think of that could do tunes like that and pull it off. Certainly no different than VH doing Big Bad Bill or Happy Trails....which I believe were done to be humorous. At least he didn't sneak around and do it like Edward did by playing on Beat It.

FYI, Dave made the Crazy From the Heat EP while he was still a member of Van Halen. The first album he made when he left was Eat 'em and Smile, and that is anything BUT a shitty album.

Love Walks In and Dreams were too out of character for VH. California Girls and especially Just a Gigalo were perfect for Dave to do, and it was something you'd expect out of him. (Again the humor thing, and not taking yourself too seriously)

[ELVIS]

Just A Gigalo and California Girls are both better than any of the Van Hagar "hits"...

[Panamark]

They were huge hits in OZ. In fact I believe they were bigger radio hits here, than any of the following Van Hagar songs..

[guwapo_rocker]

Originally posted by tjvhou812
well dave was great in vh,but he walked out...

you dont like dreams or love walks in.

but did you like california girls

or just a gigalo..

when i heard that shit i was pissed....

i mean dave left the greatest band in the world to make a shitty record

Fuck Off Monica.

Dave left because the sisters were to busy drinking to

record a follow up to 1984 and Dave grew tired of waiting

for them to run out of beer.

How many times does Dave have to repeat that he

grew tired of trekking out to 5150 daily only to find Ed

unwilling to work.

[ashstralia]

Originally posted by Panamark
They were huge hits in OZ. In fact I believe they were bigger radio hits here, than any of the following Van Hagar songs..

you still see cali girls on the pay tv
music channels EVERY DAY.

[Panamark]

Damn Foxtel and their new Irdeto encryption,
I miss watching all that...

[bru87tr]

Dave left cause he was tired of waiting for lazy Ed and alex to get off their asses to make a new record.

as a matter of fact Dave did his solo stuff just to keep busy and did many interviews stating VH is not broken up.

there is more behind it than any of us will know and we all know it starts with Ed.

the way he kicked sam out the last time im sure he told dave to go and be a solo artist.

it was never daves intention to leave VH. those guys wanted to start doing things their way and there are thing we will never know that led up to dave being out.

[Panamark]

Ed and Al had gotten lazy and Dave was still totally driven by ambition..

[BIGBADZERO]

Sam has just as much of a right to talk about Dave as Dave has a right to suck my cock. Now Dave, a little more to the right a little more.

[Panamark]

Hey BigbadZero, I have never banned anyone. But you appear to be a really deserving person... You going to start debating intelligently or are you just here to post shit ??

Heres your chance....

[BIGBADZERO]

What's your problem? My shit is more entertaining than anything you post.

[Panamark]

Seeya !

You are just spamming crap.

Congrats you are my first

[Panamark]

Originally posted by BIGBADZERO
Sam has just as much of a right to talk about Dave as Dave has a right to suck my cock. Now Dave, a little more to the right a little more.

Goodbye !!

[BARE BONE]

You called down the thunder BIGBADZERO well now you got it. Good job Panamark.

[TwoFoolsAMinute]

Bad Ass Post Brown. Thanks

[Towelie™]

Originally posted by Panamark
But Sammy is more suited
to Chicago, Journey REO Speedwagon type of balladeering.

So its not only his voice, but his look and image. This is
why I hate the dude.


Chicago, Journey and REO Speedwagon had GOOD singers :D

[Rikk]

Originally posted by tjvhou812
well dave was great in vh,but he walked out...

you dont like dreams or love walks in.

but did you like california girls

or just a gigalo..

when i heard that shit i was pissed....

i mean dave left the greatest band in the world to make a shitty record

Monica, you make me laugh.

Amazing how you can alter history, considering when that record and those singles came out, Dave and the band were continually telling everyone that nobody had split and the band was working on a new record. Dave didn't leave until some months after CRAZY FROM THE HEAT came out.

Also, CALIFORNIA GIRLS and JUST A GIGOLO are still far, far better than DREAMS or LOVE WALKS IN. They are NOT ballads...they're more like swing pop. Go check out the original CALIFORNIA GIRLS, retard. It's a masterpiece...Brian Wilson was a genius.

Of course, you probably think TEN 13 is a better album than PET SOUNDS though, huh? "PET SOUNDS?" you ask. Only considered possibly the greatest record album ever produced.

These Sammy fairies never cease to amaze me.

[lms2]

Originally posted by bru87tr
Dave left cause he was tired of waiting for lazy Ed and alex to get off their asses to make a new record.

as a matter of fact Dave did his solo stuff just to keep busy and did many interviews stating VH is not broken up.

there is more behind it than any of us will know and we all know it starts with Ed.

the way he kicked sam out the last time im sure he told dave to go and be a solo artist.

it was never daves intention to leave VH. those guys wanted to start doing things their way and there are thing we will never know that led up to dave being out.


The only thing you say here that I agree with is that there are things we will never know that led up to Dave being out.

About the boys being lazy and dave getting tired of waiting for them to make a record....what the hell good is all that money if you cant take some time off to enjoy it?

Van Halen was slipping in 84 before Dave left. Their last material is not comparable to their first material by any means. 5150 is of the quality I believe you would have seen regardless of who fronted the band. I seriously believe that Van Halen would have dropped well below the quality expected of them had they stayed together, and further, that at least one of them would be dead by now. They were going at a pace that cannot be maintained. It is sad, tragic, unfortunate, horrific, sucks big green donkey dicks that Classic Van Halen came to an end...but it is the way of things.

Dave's solo stuff...I am not saying he didn't do a good job on the covers, just that I wish he would have done a better job on more original stuff.

[Foozwah]

Originally posted by Panamark
In Australia we had no idea who Spammy was. His solo career
was unheard of here.

And even after all those years of Van Hagar, STILL no-one here has any idea who he is/was. :D

[Panamark]

Its true, we only know him as the replacement singer of Van Halen.
(The one that sucks) I to this day have never heard "I cant drive anymore because Im 65" or whatever its called ?? Yet its obviously some big fuckin hit in the US ???

We really do have it good in OZ ! :D

[General Hina]

Originally posted by Panamark
Seeya !

You are just spamming crap.

Congrats you are my first

That was a real pussy move.
Banning someone???
What is this the links all of a sudden?
I'm disappointed in you soldier.

Over and Out,
General Hina

[seenbad]

Man, that was a good post. Nice work brownie.

Where do you get a dave reference out of the shoes thing on stage in Lwan though? I've never understood that shit. I thought he was just being stupid.

[Panamark]

Originally posted by General Hina
That was a real pussy move.
Banning someone???
What is this the links all of a sudden?
I'm disappointed in you soldier.

Over and Out,
General Hina

Dont sweat it Hina,

He will be back..
Im with you, I dont agree with bannings.
There was reasons, but he is not down for
the count.. Trust me..

[General Hina]

Originally posted by Panamark
Dont sweat it Hina,

He will be back..
Im with you, I dont agree with bannings.
There was reasons, but he is not down for
the count.. Trust me..

Cool!

Thanks,
General Hina

[Terry]

I can remember when I first heard Why Can't This Be Love and just laughing.

Wasn't that thrilled with Jump and I'll Wait from 1984 to begin with, but at least the production qualities associated with the band were still there, as well as interesting lyrics and some nice guitar work from EVH on the Jump solo. Agree with lms2 that 1984 as a whole doesn't quite stack up evenly with the rest of classic Van Halen's output.

Even just from a guitar player's standpoint, neither me nor any of my friends who played were the slightest bit interested in learning any Van Hagar stuff.

[Terry]

Originally posted by Panamark
Dont sweat it Hina,

He will be back..
Im with you, I dont agree with bannings.
There was reasons, but he is not down for
the count.. Trust me..


Panamark, as with most of the moderators, displays a lot of restraint as far as banning goes.

Am not sure I'd be able to do the same, considering, if I were in his place. Lot of fuckin' nitwits coming out of the woodwork onto this site as of late.

[Matt White]

Coincidence? I started playing guitar in 1984.......hhhmmmmmmm
yup, got the record in '84, got a guitar in '84, and dug the GREATEST AMERICAN HARD ROCK BAND IN HISTORY IN 1984!!!
And a year later it was all over. Bought 5150, played it straight through, and almost cried. ABSOLUTELY NO KILLER SONGS ON IT! Only even slightly rockin' tune is 5150. The rest is just a misguided attempt to hang with Journey, Foreigner, and other pussy-rock bands. AND IT HASN"T GOTTEN ANY FUCKING BETTER IN 18 FUCKING YEARS! I'm past being MAD, I'm just EMBARESSED for what was the GREATEST BAND IN MY LIFETIME!!!!!!!

[ZahZoo]

I had the same reaction to Why Can't This Be Love... where's the guitar and lose the pussy keyboard crap. Although my ex-wife loved that song... another good reason she's my ex...

[EmpyreLounge44]

Originally posted by Panamark
In Australia we had no idea who Spammy was. His solo career
was unheard of here. I heard Dreams, etc off 5150 thinking, this shit
really sucks. All of this before I even knew what he looked like.
Then the videos from 5150 !! Heres this nerdy looking Poodle Headed
fucker with a headset on poofing around in front of Van Halen.

It was that moment where I started to hate him.



So you hate what he looks like? what does that matter? IU understand not liking the music and Brownsound1's post is probably the most thought out and best reason to not like the music, but to think the music wasnt great but started to hate because of a look is pretty silly dont you think?

DLR started to lost it for me when he did Just a Giggolo and California Girls...when he started to be just an image. ALAE is sucha kick ass record that those songs were the turning point when DLR stopped being an Icon and started being a clown. DLR was a first step in the right direction again while Diamond Dave just reversed the momentum, a couple tracks are good but just don't really cut it for me.

Would have been nice if there was no shit talking between any of the members, but there wasn't. Its just the childish idiots that we all love, or used to, love listening to.

[Bill Lumbergh]

Do you ever hear ANYONE say they were influenced by the Sammy era? Does any 15 year old kid plug in and play along to ou812 when they are first learning to play............FUCK NO, of course not, and that's all that needs to be said. Great post Brown.

[BrownSound1]

Originally posted by seenbad
Man, that was a good post. Nice work brownie.

Where do you get a dave reference out of the shoes thing on stage in Lwan though? I've never understood that shit. I thought he was just being stupid.

Well maybe he wasn't referring to Dave....I can't remember for sure, but he either says "they were left up here by someone else or some other singer." :D

[seenbad]

I always thought he was kinda joking that maybe some chick was on her period and that's why ed was giving him the kill sign to cut it off. I took it as a raunchy joke of sorts. Never thought of a dave reference there. It's a little ambiguous.

[Big Troubles]

Originally posted by Bill Lumbergh
Do you ever hear ANYONE say they were influenced by the Sammy era? Does any 15 year old kid plug in and play along to ou812 when they are first learning to play............FUCK NO, of course not, and that's all that needs to be said. Great post Brown.

Im 33 and I play along to Black and Blue and Why Cant this be Love? :D

[lafours]

I can't even think of a cool riff that was written for Van Hagar....at least nothing classic like the early stuff that just makes you wanna play a real or air guitar.

[BrownSound1]

Now Ed did some cool things here and there...especially his TransTrem work on Get Up and Summer Nights.....but wait, those were written when Dave was in the band. There is no doubt that EVH's best guitar work was with Dave in the band, and I think most Van Hagar fans will agree.

[Matt White]

Hmmmmmmmm.....RUNAROUND was kina cool...5150, the song, wasn't bad....but no, nope, nothing classic in the van hagar era. NOTHING on par with the first six CLASSIC VAN HALEN recordings!

[Bill Lumbergh]

Originally posted by Big Troubles
Im 33 and I play along to Black and Blue and Why Cant this be Love? :D

What....no love for "Can't Stop Lovin' You" ?! :D

[Big Train]

Are you kidding me, I played the HELL out of 5150 and OU812, when I was learning how to play....Every week I would use them to tape the "Top 9 at 9 on WAAF in Boston" and learn the new tunes....wore those tapes out man....ah memories.

[Panamark]

Originally posted by EmpyreLounge44
So you hate what he looks like? what does that matter? IU understand not liking the music and Brownsound1's post is probably the most thought out and best reason to not like the music, but to think the music wasnt great but started to hate because of a look is pretty silly dont you think?



He looked like a fucking idiot. But obviously I didnt get my point across adequately. I hated his vocals, before I saw him. His vocal style to me is like cats fighting at night or scratching nails down a chalkboard... Its really annoying. Seeing him (after the kick ass
image the band had previously) was the final nail in the Sammy
appreciation coffin for me...

So no, its not just his appearance..