Gannon or Collins?

[rustoffa]

Turner loves to stretch the field.
Collins has arguably a stronger arm than Gannon.
Gannon, IMO, is the more precise.

It's going to be Jerry Porter's breakout season either way, and with
a rejuvenated line the dark skies are the limit.

I'd still go with Gannon.

[POJO_Risin]

I'd go with Gannon too..but the question remains...will he be healthy...he's about 54 years old...

Collins will end up starting sooner or later...and Davis likes the long ball...

frankly...I'm surprised Gannon wasn't cut yet....

many speculate that Davis will cut him after the 2nd or 3rd preseason game...to keep him from being at all effective for Tampa...who would likely sign him to start...

[rustoffa]

Fuck bro, even Tui looked good last week.

The age factor with Gannon is exactly that, he's dropped some
weight and lifted a few weights apparently.

I think it's his job to lose....I'm sure that Collins took a deep breath
when he saw the uniform hanging there as well.

Bridesmaid slot is "up in the air" eh?

[POJO_Risin]

We'll see...I just don't see both those guys staying on that team...especially if Gannon loses the job...to many Gannon guys on that team...

Mark my words...he'll be dumped...

[MAX]

Who fucking cares? As a die hard Bronco fan I'm pleased with either one as the QB for the quiverin crack!!!! lol!!!!

[POJO_Risin]

The Raiders will be far from good...although I do think Porter will be the real deal this year...barring injury...

[MAX]

I hate to say it but the AFC West will go down as follows:

KC
DEN
OAK
SD

It sucks for me but I see no way out of that scenerio unless our new defens pays off with Lynch and Bailey.

[POJO_Risin]

Bailey will change that team...he's the real deal...

I just can't see KC's defense being that good...

They'll outscore some teams...but when they play good d's...they are done...and Vermeil will be a cryin'...

[MAX]

Yeah, Vermeil loves to cry. MAAAMA!!!! I dunno with Holmes, Green and Gonzalez. Same scenerio as the '99 Rams. If they can bombard the scoreboard, I dunno. Fuck that little fucker Duante though!!!! I hate that little prick and everyone on special teams who clips for him!!!!

Ok Poj, I'll take your word regarding Champ and our defense. I am also happy to have such a standup guy like Lynch aboard. I think he will be a great leader for our D.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by rustoffa
Turner loves to stretch the field.
Collins has arguably a stronger arm than Gannon.
Gannon, IMO, is the more precise.

That's the big question IMO...

If you're going to run the same 5 yard dink pass offense that they've been doing for the last several years, then Gannon's still the one....

But if you spread it out, then yeah Collins would be better...

The question then is do they have the WR weapons to run that offense ???

Remember, while Gannon is about 54, that makes Rice 62.... ;)

[POJO_Risin]

Jerry Porter...there are still questions about him...but not due to not being able to carry the burden...

remember...last year he was injured...yeah...there are questions about Porter...but I think people are forgetting him...

Va...you can just hear the smearing lather when you say "five yard dink offense"

I think this is our new argument of the next couple of years...similar to the Braves strike zone...

lmfao...the five yard dink offense has been a major player since Walsh put it in in San Fran in 1979...

and won the bowl with it a couple of years later...

Now you just see a ton of teams use it...and if you have a couple of fantastic, precise route runners...and a burner...there just isn't a defense that can stop it...

2 and 3 step drops...precise routes...then occasionally...a deep ball...

Nearly every game...it seemed...Montana or Young would hit Rice with a deep ball after dinking the fuck out of them with Wendell Tyler, Roger Craig...their slew of good te's...and great wideouts...from Freddie Solomon to Dwight Clark to Jerry Rice...damn I can't think of his tandem receiver...who was great in his own right...

Believe me...if it won the Steelers a title...I'd be jumping up and down as well...

[Lou]

Nah I see this:

KC
DEN
SD
OAK

Unfortunately for Raider fans this is gonna be a bad year...who do they have on that team? If Jerry Porter is your best player you are in TROUBLE.

[POJO_Risin]

Dude...if Jerry Rice is your best player...you are in trouble...and that's in his heydey...

they have nothing else...

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Va...you can just hear the smearing lather when you say "five yard dink offense"

I think this is our new argument of the next couple of years...similar to the Braves strike zone...

I'll never let it get to that level....

Those fookin' pitchers ruined the Bucs' only World Series shot since the '79 team.... And with Sid Bream to boot....

Bastards.... ;)

[POJO_Risin]

If they just would have ran the West Coast Offense...the Pirates that is...maybe they could have won that game 7...

You see...look what happened when Bonds went "West Coast..."

He actually got to a series...and played well...;)

lmfao...

[POJO_Risin]

C'mon...how can any damn team make it to the series with fucking Doug Drabek as your ace...;)

[rustoffa]

*note to self* Max is a Donkey.:D

Gotta disagree with the sentiments my brothers.

Buchanon...Jolley...Johnson...Fargas....there's some other guys around that ain't on the geritol.:D

Motherfuck, am I the ONLY west coast demolition fan in the hizzie?

:rolleyes:

[POJO_Risin]

No...you'll see them pop up as the season commences...lmfao...

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
C'mon...how can any damn team make it to the series with fucking Doug Drabek as your ace...;)

You mean the one that won the NL Cy Young in 1990 ??

[POJO_Risin]

Hey...Steve Stone won the Cy Young award too...

So yeah...I mean that guy...

[ALinChainz]

KC
Den
Oak
SD

I don't see how SD does anything, with LT being the entire offense. I don't see Oakland being all the way back, but they will stop the run better, that's a given.

I agree POJO, here comes Porter. Collins had that 89 yard completion in the last game, and that equalled like 7 completions from Gannon. Norv Turner ... I don't see Gannon having a very long leash.

Quentin Griffin looks like the real deal, so far. Long season. They now need receviers. Smith, old. Lelie maybe the #3 behind a rookie Watts.

[POJO_Risin]

Man...Denver was monster high on Lelie last year...thought it was his coming out party...

but he couldn't make the big catches...or they wouldn't give him the right routes...

it's hard to make an impact when they have you burning down the field on fly patterns every play to get the other guys open...

he's getting screwed IMO...

[ALinChainz]

Gotta be a strength issue, getting off the line and going over the middle. Has to be a reason they send him long all the time, and I agree with you on that they did it to get Smith open, he is an old man now and needs the help. Denver hasn't really been a "deep ball" team in a while, even in Elway's final 2 SB seasons.

Watts is a big, physical kid, stronger. Been solid in the games I've seen of them so far.

[POJO_Risin]

Lelie is definately slight...

and with 2 old receivers last year...Lelie had to go yard every time...

probably a size issue...and a need issue...good assessment bro...

hadn't really thought of that...

[MAX]

I still haven't given up on Lelie. The guy just has to step up. He's definitely capable of making big plays and I look for him to be a stellar receiver this year. It's make or break time. Fuck, my Broncos have lost a lot so I'm hoping Pojo is right about Champ making a huge impact on our D. I've also read where Champ is running offensive routes during scrimmages and is enjoying it. That could be stellar to use him as a receiver.

[POJO_Risin]

Well...I've never been a fan of using a guy that talented on the defensive side of the ball...goin' on offense...

If I were a safety....and I saw Bailey coming into the game...he'd have a big-ass target on his back...

but I think any time you take away a side of a field against an NFL team...and force the #2 guy on an offensive to make big plays...you are bound to shake it up...

If Denver can manage to pressure the opposing qb from the side opposite Bailey...it will improve their D tenfold...

of course...it's all a null and void point if Plummer plays tag team with the trainers again...

[MAX]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
of course...it's all a null and void point if Plummer plays tag team with the trainers again...

With all due respect, what do you mean by that? :confused:

I hear you though regarding putting Champ in offensively. He would be a great decoy but could make for a great play here or there, just like when teams used Primetime in the same scenerio or Sapp for The Bucs.

Fuck, I'm getting stoked even though I don't think my team has much of a chance but you knever know?

Did you play ball when you were young Pojo?

[Starwood]

Pick your poison.
One is very intelligent and can't throw accurately over 25 yards.
The other is a box of rocks but can throw it a country mile.

[Starwood]

It will be Gannon until they're 1-3. Then here comes Kerry. Watch

[Tex]

The Raiders won't be 1-3. The Raiders have too much talent and a coach who can communicate with them. evedently Callahandjob has trouble communicating with collage players too. Gannon and Wheatly look awesome and we're stacked at WR and tight end. Our run defense looks better with the addition of Washington and Sapp. We've got the best special teams coach in football (something we really needed, thanks Dallas).

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Interesting how a guy whose login is "Tex" and whose location says Georgia is calling the Oakland Raiders "we", but I digress..... (Like I got room to talk ;) ).......

I tend to agree with him though, they won't be 1-3

at Pittsburgh - Loss (You know I'd say that, but it's true :D )
vs. Buffalo - Win
vs. Tampa Bay - Win on Sunday night game
at Houston - Win, but Houston may give them a good game....

[POJO_Risin]

Well...I liked what I saw of Oakland today...a bit anyways...

they're defense halted Pittsburgh in the second half...but I wonder if that wasn't more because of Maddox being inept...or the playcalling...

They still have a ton of offensive weapons...and Gannon was getting it going today...so we'll see...

I don't like it that they don't have a goto back...I don't see any team winning with rb by committee...but hey...we'll see...

I say 2-2...but more than likey...3-1...like Va was hinting at...

[rustoffa]

Staley put on an impressive display without a doubt. I'm sure they'll eventually go to him ALOT more outta the backfield.

Ward has to be THE most underrated receiver in the league.

Kick-ass old school AFC matchup.

For a completely re-structured team, I thought the RAIDERS did a hell of a job on opening day on the road.

[Lou]

Stillers/Raiders was the AFC game broadcast in Philadelphia today, and I can say conclusively that Rich Gannon sucks anymore. And why is every pass a sidearm?

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by Lou
And why is every pass a sidearm?

Come on bro, he has that shuffle pass too!

[Lou]

BTW I think Oakland is a 4-12 team, one of the worst in the NFL this year. I just can't see them doing well. And I still stick by my prediction that the Stillers are going 5-11; they struggled to beat a bad Oakland team, at home today.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by Lou
And I still stick by my prediction that the Stillers are going 5-11; they struggled to beat a bad Oakland team, at home today.

You are one disillusioned sumbitch, you know that ??? ;)

[rustoffa]

Well, Gannon writhed in pain as Collins took over the main.
Sloppy play here and there.
Martyball gave the donkeys a good run, fuck 'em both.
Vermeil needs a chamois instead of a cryin' towel.

McNair got pummeled and Philly looks good.

Seattle?

Manning's snap-count theatrics work early....he'll choke again.

It's still early......*cue Pojo's thoughts*
:D

[LoungeMachine]

MY SEAHAWKS ARE 3-0 BABY


WELCOME BACK DENNIS

SHUT FUCKING OUT

3-0 BABY

[ALinChainz]

Gannon has broken vertebra in his neck

By JANIE McCAULEY, AP Sports Writer
September 27, 2004


ALAMEDA, Calif. (AP) -- Rich Gannon might lose a second straight season to injury.

The 2002 NFL MVP has a broken vertebra in his neck that will sideline him at least six weeks. The Oakland Raiders quarterback underwent an MRI exam Monday morning and was taken for further tests. Coach Norv Turner didn't believe Gannon was at risk for paralysis and said the quarterback was walking around the team's training facility before receiving the news about his neck.

``He will be out an extended period. A six-weeks deal, or maybe longer,'' Turner said. ``It's disappointing. ... It makes you sick to your stomach when any player puts as much into it as Rich has.''

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Turner said it would be premature to speculate whether Gannon, the 2002 NFL MVP, would end up on injured reserve for the second straight season. He hadn't told his team about Gannon's status before the Raiders broke team meetings for the day Monday afternoon. Gannon was unavailable for comment Monday.

``Are you kidding me?'' running back Amos Zereoue said when learning of the news. ``It's very unfortunate. He prepared himself to get ready for the season. I don't know what to say. ... It's part of the game. That's why the next man has to step up. Kerry (Collins) did that and we have to lean on him to guide us.''

The 38-year-old Gannon left in the first quarter of Oakland's 30-20 win over the Buccaneers on Sunday night after taking a helmet-to-helmet hit from linebacker Derrick Brooks.

Gannon ran for 2 yards during the Raiders' first offensive series and was stopped at the Bucs 5 by Brooks. Gannon grimaced in pain, but walked off the field on his own, looking groggy.

He was taken to the locker room for examination of his back, then returned to the sideline in the second half.

``One comment Rich made to me this morning was, 'I know better,''' Turner said of running in that situation. ``It was a heck of a hit.''

Turner said he wouldn't discourage his QBs from running or scrambling, although Collins is unlikely to do that.

Gannon was hurt in a 17-10 loss to Kansas City last Oct. 20 and had shoulder surgery in November. He has said this offseason was one of the most productive in his 17-year career as he worked his way back after surgery.

``Unfortunately he went down before we had a chance to get on a roll. He's one of those guys I think is going to rehab and try to get back before six weeks,'' left guard Frank Middleton said. ``He likes proving people wrong. I really think he'll be back before they say he's ready.''

Gannon arrived at training camp 10 pounds lighter and has calmly brushed off talk he's on his way out only one season removed from leading the league's top-rated offense and earning NFL MVP honors during Oakland's Super Bowl season.

Gannon was determined to get the Raiders back on track after last season's ugly 4-12 finish.

``I know how important it is to him and to have the kind of injury and be out for an extended period of time, it's hard,'' Turner said. ``Rich went through it a year ago and I know it was very hard on him. He's amazing what he's done.''

Collins, 31, joined the Raiders in May after the New York Giants released him when they acquired No. 1 draft pick Eli Manning. Collins had an impressive preseason and directed the Raiders on four scoring drives Sunday night, completing 16 of 27 passes for 228 yards and one touchdown.

``It's obviously a big part of the reason we did what we did during the offseason,'' Turner said of signing Collins just in case Gannon got hurt.

Collins, a nine-year veteran, threw for 3,110 yards with 13 touchdowns and 16 interceptions in 2003.

The 6-foot-5, 245-pound Collins has a stronger arm than Gannon and his ability to throw deep fits well with Turner's new offense and owner Al Davis' model for a quarterback.

Collins wishes he hadn't earned the No. 1 job this way, but said he has to turn his focus to Sunday's game at Houston.

``I hate it for Rich,'' said Collins, who has been getting about a dozen plays a week in practice with the first-team offense. ``Especially for a guy like Rich who loves to play so much. I know it's going to be hard for him.''

Collins said he would expect Gannon to be the starter again once he's healthy. He realizes the Raiders brought him in as insurance, and has handled his position admirably.

``Did I want to play from Day 1? Absolutely,'' he said. ``But I was prepared to continue my role for the rest of the season. I hate that Rich got hurt.''

[rustoffa]

Yeah, and to think they signed Collins because of concerns about Gannon's shoulder.

Sucks for the former MVP. Get better Rich.

[rustoffa]

First start jitters or dipping into Gannon's pain pill bottle at the half?

Mind-numbing performance by Collins along with Sims' repeated blunders.

Nice output from Zereoue.

Carr looks like the real deal, I have no fucking clue about his dads' porn mullet.

At Indy next week? Hide your pain killers Rich.

[JCOOK]

Well I think the verdict is in on Mr. Collins.... Bring back the snake!

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by JCOOK
Well I think the verdict is in on Mr. Collins.... Bring back the snake!

:D
I think he's way too comfortable calling the Crimson Tide games bro.

I'll say this much, he should have been in the HOF a long time ago. His antics paved the way for "Rozelle" headbands and the mighty petty NFL never forgets.

http://img14.exs.cx/img14/4962/snake7.jpg

[JCOOK]

I love uncle AL bit its' wrong to see Gannon wearing #12