Nothing Shakin' on Shakedown Street?

[Warham]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
What do I have to cry about? Everything I've been proving here for the last year is coming out.

The point is that you can't argue a single point against me. You never even try anymore. Your back is against the wall. We have all you neocons by the balls.

the jig is up buttclinton!

Actually, you've gone on and on about how it's always the end of the world as we know it.

It'll still be here after we're both pushing up pretty flowers.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by blueturk
Since there is no defense for the incompetence of Dubya, Clinton is the only thing the sheep have to fall back on....

Obvouisly, it's all I ever here. JESUS H CHRIST GIVE IT A REST!!!


I don't know why I come here anymore. I like a challenging debate, not a fucking chorus of mildy-retarded nutsack danglers.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by ELVIS
It's usually a valid argument...

Dumbass...

"But Clinton" is rarely relevant.

But judging from your posts and your negligent upbringing, you don't understand how issues need to be relevant to make a point in a discussion. Like I said in another thread today, you have poor debate skills and reading comprehension.

You're totally out of your league. Like a child wandering into the middle of a movie and asking what's happening.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Warham
Translation: MOMMY!!! WAHHHHHHH!!!

What do I have to cry about? Everything I've been proving here for the last year is coming out.

The point is that you can't argue a single point against me. You never even try anymore. Your back is against the wall. We have all you neocons by the balls.

the jig is up buttclinton!

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
You pussies bring up Clinton every time.

It's usually a valid argument...

Dumbass...

[blueturk]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
You pussies bring up Clinton every time. It's so weak. You can't argue a single valid point. I've been waiting for weeks and nothing of substance from any of you.

Pathetic.

Since there is no defense for the incompetence of Dubya, Clinton is the only thing the sheep have to fall back on....

[Warham]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
You pussies bring up Clinton every time. It's so weak. You can't argue a single valid point. I've been waiting for weeks and nothing of substance from any of you.

Pathetic.

Translation: MOMMY!!! WAHHHHHHH!!!

[ODShowtime]

You pussies bring up Clinton every time. It's so weak. You can't argue a single valid point. I've been waiting for weeks and nothing of substance from any of you.

Pathetic.

[Warham]

Looks like a long rap sheet to me.

This guy is the liberals' hero?

[Sarge's Little Helper]

whiny liberals

[FORD]

But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
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But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
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But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
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But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...
But Clinton...

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by FORD
So was I. And $tarr found him innocent of all that shit.

Whitewater Scandal Timeline


1975 -- Bill Clinton and Hillary Rodham marry.

1977 -- Mrs. Clinton joins the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock, Arkansas.

1978 -- The Clintons and the McDougals borrow nearly $200,000 from Citizens Bank to buy scenic though remote land along the White River in Flippin, Ark. Without telling Citizens Bank, they borrow $20,000 from another bank to make the down payment.

1978 -- Mrs. Clinton begins trading commodities with an initial investment of $1,000.

1978 -- Clinton is elected governor of Arkansas.

1979 -- James McDougal joins Clinton's gubernatorial administration as an economic advisor.

1979 -- Mrs. Clinton closes out her commodities account after making nearly $100,000.

1979 -- The Whitewater Development company is formed, with ownership shared between the Clintons and McDougals.

1980 -- McDougal quits his job with Clinton and buys a bank in Kingston, Ark., that he renames Madison Bank & Trust Co.

1980 -- Clinton loses his re-election bid for governor. Mrs. Clinton calls McDougal asking for money.

1980 -- Mrs. Clinton borrows $30,000 from Madison Bank to build a model home at Whitewater.

1982 -- The McDougals buy a savings and loan bank and rename it Madison Guaranty Savings and Loan.

1982 -- Clinton wins back the governorship.

1983 -- Clinton borrows $20,000 from the Security Bank of Paragould to reduce Mrs. Clinton's Madison Bank loan.

1984 -- Clinton jogs over to McDougal's office and asks him to help Mrs. Clinton by giving business to her at the Rose firm. McDougal agrees.

1985 -- Mrs. Clinton meets with McDougal, and he agrees to pay a monthly retainer to the Rose firm.

1985 -- McDougal barters the remaining Whitewater lots to Chris Wade for an airplane and the assumption of $35,000 in bank debt.

1985 -- Mrs. Clinton angrily rebuffs the McDougals' effort to have the Clintons sign over their interest in Whitewater.

1986 -- The McDougals separate.

1986 -- McDougal is forced to resign from Madison Guaranty.

1986 -- Mrs. Clinton ends Rose's retainer agreement with Madison.

1986 -- Mrs. Clinton again refuses to transfer the Clintons' interest in Whitewater to the McDougals.

1986 -- Mrs. Clinton balks at giving Susan McDougal a financial disclosure form for Citizens Bank, now renamed 1st Ozark National Bank.

1987 -- Mrs. Clinton deals directly with loan officers at 1st Ozark and assumes control of the Whitewater investment.

1987 -- Clinton signs a bill expanding branch banking, a statute that primarily benefits Twin City Bank, the parent of 1st Ozark.

1989 -- Madison fails in March, costing the taxpayers $60 million.

1989 -- McDougal is indicted on charges relating to the Castle Grande, a Madison-funded real estate project Rose attorneys, including Hillary Clinton, worked on.

1990 -- McDougal is acquitted of the charges.

1990 -- Clinton tells McDougal's lawyer he wants out of Whitewater, but Mrs. Clinton again balks.

1991 -- Clinton announces he is running for president.

1992 -- Mrs. Clinton again refuses to relinquish the Clintons' interest in Whitewater.

1992 -- Clinton is elected president.

1992 -- McDougal and Vince Foster, representing the Clintons, sign papers selling the Clintons' interest in Whitewater to McDougal for $1,000.

1992 -- Clinton's presidential campaign, responding to pressure from the media, issues a statement that the Clintons did nothing improper with Whitewater dealings.

1993 -- Webb Hubbell removes several cardboard file boxes, including those relating to Whitewater, from the Rose firm and stores them in his Washington basement.

Jan. 1993 -- Clinton is inaugurated.

July 20, 1993 -- Foster kills himself.

October 1993 -- RTC investigator Jean Lewis makes nine criminal referrals stemming from her investigation of Madison Guaranty, including one that names Clinton's 1985 gubernatorial campaign.

Dec. 23, 1993 -- Clinton says he and Mrs. Clinton will release all records pertaining to Whitewater.

Jan. 12, 1994 -- Facing mounting pressure, Clinton requests a special prosecutor be appointed.

Jan. 20, 1994 -- Robert B. Fiske Jr., a New York attorney, is appointed by Attorney General Janet Reno as independent Whitewater counsel.

Feb. 24, 1994 -- Deputy Treasury Secretary Roger Altman, who oversees the RTC, acknowledges to the Senate Banking Committee he gave White House officials a "heads-up" on the RTC Madison criminal referrals.

Feb. 25, 1994 -- Clinton aides George Stephanopoulos and Harold Ickes have a conference call with Altman to discuss RTC's choice of Republican lawyer Jay Stephens to head the Madison investigation.

Feb. 25, 1994 -- Altman recuses himself from the RTC investigation of Madison.

March 4, 1994 -- Six of Clinton's senior White House aides are subpoenaed by the FBI to testify. Fiske later subpoenas 12 more officials.

March 22, 1994 -- David Hale, former municipal judge and owner of Capital Management Services, pleads guilty to two felony counts for defrauding the Small Business Administration. Hale implicates the president, saying Clinton pressured him to make a $300,000 loan in 1986.

March 24, 1994 -- The House Banking Committee's top Republican, Rep. Jim Leach (R-Iowa), gives a floor speech accusing the RTC of stonewalling on public documents, and says he has evidence of a coverup.

March 24, 1994 -- Clinton goes on national TV to defend Whitewater business dealings.

April 22, 1994 -- Mrs. Clinton holds press conference to address Whitewater concerns.

June 12, 1994 -- Fiske questions both Clintons under oath.

June 30, 1994 -- In a preliminary finding, Fiske rules Vincent Foster's death a suicide, and that White House-Treasury contacts had not broken any laws.

July 26, 1994 -- The House Banking Committee begins hearings on Whitewater.

July 29, 1994 -- The Senate Banking Committee begins Whitewater hearings.

Aug. 5, 1994 -- Former Bush Administration Solicitor General Kenneth Starr appointed as replacement for Fiske.

Aug. 29, 1994 -- Roger Altman resigns as deputy Treasury chief, after Senate hearings into White House-Treasury contacts reveal inconsistencies in his testimony.

July 18, 1995 -- Thirteen days of Senate Whitewater Hearings, chaired by Sen. Alfonse D'Amato (R-N.Y.) begin, looking into whether documents were removed from Vincent Foster's office the night he died.

August 7, 1995 -- House Banking Committee hearings, chaired by Rep. Jim Leach (R-Iowa) begin, looking into whether White House officials improperly tried to influence the RTC investigation of Madison Guaranty and Whitewater. RTC investigator Jean Lewis testifies her superiors made "a concerted effort to obstruct, hamper, and manipulate the results of our investigation."

Aug. 17, 1995 -- Jim and Susan McDougal and Guy Tucker indicted by a grand jury for fraud and conspiracy.

Sept. 29, 1995 -- RTC investigator Jean Lewis resigns.

Dec. 21, 1995 -- The White House turns over disputed Whitewater notes to avoid a federal court challenge pushed by Sen. Alfonse D'Amato's Senate Whitewater committee.

Jan. 4, 1996 -- Carolyn Huber, longtime Clinton aide and White House assistant, finds Mrs. Clinton's long-subpoenaed Rose Law firm Whitewater billing records.

Jan. 27, 1996 -- Mrs. Clinton testifies for more than four hours before a federal grand jury regarding the appearance of her billing records.

Feb. 5, 1996 -- Clinton subpoenaed to testify in the trial of Jim and Susan McDougal and Arkansas Gov. Jim Guy Tucker.

Feb. 8, 1996 -- Senate Whitewater investigators review expletive-laden notes turned over by the White House which reveal a concern over what former Arkansas securities commissioner Beverly Bassett Schaffer might tell the Senate Committee about the Clintons' involvement in Whitewater. "Item by item, make sure her story is okay," the memo reads. "If the effort is botched, we're done."

Feb. 9, 1996 -- Arkansas financial regulator Beverly Bassett Schafer says she was pressured by White House aides to make a public statement favoring the Clintons in their role in Whitewater. According to notes of a January 1994 White House meeting, aides suggested sending someone to Arkansas to make sure Schaffer's story was "okay."

March 4, 1996 -- Whitewater trial of Jim and Susan McDougal and Gov. Tucker begins in LIttle Rock.

March 25, 1996 -- David Hale sentenced to 28 months in prison and ordered to reimburse the government $2.04 million.

April 2, 1996 -- Hale takes the stand and says Clinton pressured him to make an illegal $300,000 loan. Clinton had called the allegation "a bunch of bull."

April 8, 1996 -- Under oath, Hale concedes he can't recall the dates of various conversations he says took place.

April 8, 1997 -- His neutrality under fire, Starr defends his decision to keep private clients while working on Whitewater.

April 28, 1996 -- The president testifies by videotape from the White House, denying Hale's allegation he pressured him for a $300,000 loan.

April 30, 1996 -- Democratic Sens. Bennett Johnston's (D-La.) and Harry Reid's (D-Nev.) request for Starr to be removed from the Whitewater probe rebuffed by U.S. Court of Appeals. Johnston and Reid contend Starr is biased against Clinton.

May 1, 1996 -- Investigators identify inconsistencies in Mrs. Clinton's testimony about repayment of a loan to McDougal.

May 9, 1996 -- Clinton's testimony is played to the jury.

May 28, 1996 -- Jury finds Tucker and the McDougals guilty of 24 of the 30 counts against them.

May 30, 1996 -- Poll finds Americans believe 60 percent to 30 percent that Clinton is hiding something related to Whitewater.

May 30, 1996 -- White House surrenders Travelgate documents, avoiding contempt of Congress vote.

June 14, 1996 -- Senate Whitewater investigators ask Mrs. Clinton for more information regarding her work on the Castle Grande deal, the appearance of her Rose Law firm billing records, and the handling of documents by Webster Hubbell and Vincent Foster. She provides written responses on June 17.

June 17, 1996 -- Trial begins in Little Rock for Arkansas bankers Herby Branscum Jr. and Robert Hill, charged with 11 felony counts in their handling of Madison funds in connection with Clinton's 1990 gubernatorial re-election bid.

June 18, 1996 -- Senate Whitewater probe concludes. Republicans issue scathingly critical report of obstruction by first lady and White House aides. Democrats issue separate report concluding no wrongdoing by the Clintons or their associates.

June 19, 1996 -- House holds hearing into White House's improper collection of FBI background files.

June 19, 1996 Starr names close Clinton aide Bruce Lindsey as an unindicted co-conspirator in the Hill and Branscum case.

June 20, 1996 Attorney General Reno asks Starr to look into the FBI files controversy.

June 25, 1996 -- White House turns over 2,000 Travelgate documents, averting a contempt of Congress vote for the second time.

July 7, 1996 -- Clinton testimony recorded by videotape in White House session.

July 16, 1996 -- Bruce Lindsey, an unindicted co-conspirator, testifies in Branscum and Hill trial.

July 18, 1996 -- Clinton's video testimony played before jurors. The president denies he, as governor, promised political jobs to Branscum and Hill in exchange for political donations.

Aug. 1, 1996 -- Little Rock jury acquits Hill and Branscum on four charges and deadlocks on the remaining seven.

Aug. 15, 1996 -- Jim McDougal begins cooperating with Whitewater prosecutors. His sentencing date is delayed.

Aug. 19, 1996 -- Jim Guy Tucker sentenced to four years' probation. On Aug. 20, Susan McDougal is sentenced to two years in prison.

Aug. 27, 1996 -- Contradicting Senate testimony of Clinton aides, a newly released memo indicates Mrs. Clinton was behind the 30-hour delay in releasing Vincent Foster's suicide note.

Sept. 4, 1996 -- Susan McDougal held in contempt of court for refusing to testify before federal grand jury in Little Rock, and sentenced to 18 months in jail.

Sept. 13, 1996 -- Starr decides not to re-try Arkansas bankers Herby Branscum, Jr. and Robert Hill on seven deadlocked charges.

Sept. 20, 1996 -- A bitterly divided House Government Reform and Oversight Committee approves its Travelgate report on the firing of seven longtime White House travel office workers, with committee members voting along party lines. "President Clinton has engaged in an unprecedented misuse of the executive power, abuse of executive privilege and obstruction of numerous investigations into the Travel Office matter," says Chairman William Clinger (R-Penn.). Democrats walk out of the hearing room.

Sept. 24, 1996 -- The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) issues report finding that a real estate document drafted by Mrs. Clinton when she worked at the Rose Law Firm was used by Jim McDougal's savings and loan on a "sham" transaction to evade regulations and pay $300,000 in questionable commissions.

Oct. 4, 1996 -- Starr defends his decision to address an audience on legal issues at Regent University, a law school run by conservative evangelist Pat Robertson.

Oct. 25, 1996 -- A federal court authorizes Starr to investigate whether former White House counsel Bernard Nussbaum lied to Congress about the FBI file flap.

Dec. 15, 1996 -- Starr tells the Economic Club of Detroit it has been difficult finding cooperation to get at the truth. As the cost of the investigation approaches $9 million, Starr says, "It is time-consuming and therefore expensive to investigate" and dismisses as "utterly wrong" the allegation that he's out to get the Clintons.

Nov. 11, 1996 -- Jim McDougal's sentencing delayed until Feb. 24, 1997, while he cooperates with Whitewater lawyers.

Dec. 3, 1996 -- Democratic strategist James Carville announces on national TV his intention to launch a campaign against Starr.

Jan. 30, 1997 -- Arousing speculation that payments to Webster Hubbell from Clinton allies are being investigated, Starr subpoenas the White House for documents on 14 people and six companies with connections to the wealthy Riady family, which controls the Indonesia-based Lippo Group.

Feb. 6, 1997 -- Sources say Starr's team is assembling a memo to review the evidence assembled against key figures including the president and first lady. "Evaluation time is here," a lawyer tells The Associated Press.

Feb. 9, 1997 -- The New Yorker magazine reports Jim McDougal has reversed himself, and will now testify Clinton did engage in a conversation about an illegal $300,000 loan.

Feb. 12, 1997 -- From his jail cell in Texarkana, Texas, David Hale tells The Associated Press he has only told investigators "a small, small part" of the whole Whitewater saga, and that "a lot more information will come out by the time this investigation is all over."

Feb. 17, 1997 -- Provoking speculation over the future of the Whitewater probe, officials of the Pepperdine University School of Law announce that Kenneth Starr will become dean of the school effective Aug. 1, 1997.

Feb. 22, 1997 -- After intense criticism, Starr flip flops and announces he will stay on the Whitewater investigation until any resulting prosecutions are "substantially completed."

Feb. 23, 1997 -- The Los Angeles Times reports that Starr has concluded Vincent Foster's death was a suicide.

March 5, 1997 -- News reports about earlier White House subpoenas show that Starr is investigating some $400,000 in payments from Clinton allies to Webster Hubbell for unspecified legal work in 1994 before he went on trial. The White House acknowledges on March 11 that the president was aware some of his friends had hired Hubbell. Linking the Whitewater inquiry to the flap over Democratic fund-raising, reports surface that $100,000 came from James Riady, an Indonesian businessman and longtime associate of the Clintons.

March 24, 1997 -- Starr asks a federal judge to reduce David Hale's prison sentence, saying that Hale "continues to provide information material to the grand jury's ongoing investigation into highly complex financial arrangements."

April 2, 1997 -- The White House acknowledges that Erskine Bowles and Mack McLarty contacted associates in March 1994 in an effort to get work for Webster Hubbell.

April 14, 1997 -- Jim McDougal is sentenced to three years in prison, one year in house arrest, and fined $10,000 for his Whitewater crimes. McDougal had faced as many as 84 years in prison before he decided to cooperate with Starr, who described the former Clinton business partner as at the "epicenter" of his case. McDougal claimed last year his testimony absolved the Clintons of Whitewater wrongdoing, but asked by a reporter if that was still the case, McDougal said, "I wouldn't go to the bank on that."

April 15, 1997 -- White House Chief of Staff Erskine Bowles testfies for about seven hours before the Whitewater grand jury in Little Rock, Ark. regarding efforts he made in 1994 to help Webster Hubbell find work.

April 22, 1997 -- At Kenneth Starr's request, a federal judge extends the term of the Little Rock federal grand jury by six months. Starr cites "extensive evidence" of possible obstruction of justice provided by Jim McDougal and other sources. The night before, McDougal repeats his claim on CNN's "Larry King Live" that Bill Clinton had discussed an illegal loan, and suggests Hillary Clinton has perjured herself. (Transcript of King show).

May 2, 1997 -- The White House indicates it will appeal to the Supreme Court a lower court's ruling that Hillary Clinton must turn over to Starr notes taken by former White House deputy counsel Jane Sherburne on Jan. 26, 1996, after the first lady's testimony before a federal grand jury in Washington.

May 5, 1997 -- The New York Times reports the Clintons were warned by their friend Jim Blair in March 1994 about the gravity of Webster Hubbell's legal problems, and that their personal attorney David Kendall was also aware. The White House denies the report undermines previous assertions by both Clintons that neither they nor any others at the White House were aware of the extent of Hubbell's woes at the time business calls were made on his behalf.

May 6, 1997 -- Starr defies a Los Angeles Superior Court judge's order to appear in his court to testify on why Susan McDougal is being held in jail.

May 6, 1997 -- In documents released by the federal judge in Little Rock, Independent Counsel Starr "candidly states ... Mrs. Clinton's testimony on several issues under investigation 'has changed over time or differs from that of other witnesses' and that she is a 'central figure' in his investigation."

May 12, 1997 -- White House lawyers petition the Supreme Court to protect the secrecy of conversations that Hillary Rodham Clinton had with former White House Deputy Counsel Jane Sherburne on Jan. 26, 1996, and with administration attorneys on July 11, 1995. Earlier, a federal appeals court ruled the attorney-client privilege does not exist for government lawyers, and that the notes had to be turned over to a Whitewater grand jury. In rare public comments, Starr says the administration is "duty-bound" to turn the notes over, while the White House accuses Starr of engaging in a "fishing expedition." Starr also says Susan McDougal, in demanding immunity from perjury charges as a precondition to testifying, is seeking a "license to lie."

May 15, 1997 -- A Washington-based federal grand jury investigating Whitewater is dismissed. On May 17, Whitewater investigators disclosed they are using another federal grand jury in Washington to on their probe.

May 18, 1997 -- ABC-TV reports that John Bates, an aide to Kenneth Starr, told an appeals judge that "we certainly are investigating individuals, and those individuals -- including Mrs. Clinton -- could be indicted."

May 19, 1997 -- A federal judge in Little Rock, Ark., rules that Jim McDougal must report to jail to begin serving his three-year sentence. Four days before reporting to prison, McDougal predicts Hillary Clinton may join him there.


May 29, 1997 -- In a 30-page brief, Starr objects to the White House appeal to the Supreme Court to deny his investigation access to Hillary Clinton's Whitewater notes taken by former deputy White House counsel Jane Sherburne. "What the case presents, at bottom, is a bold assertion of a governmental privilege against a federal grand jury's interest in securing relevant evidence," Starr said.

June 3, 1997 -- David Kendall, the Clintons' Whitewater lawyer, accuses Starr's office of violating grand jury secrecy rules to inflict "leak-and-smear damage" on his clients. In a letter to Starr, Kendall says a news article that quoted unnamed prosecutors on Starr's staff contained "plain violations of grand jury secrecy" rules. "The comments of you and persons in your office directly and indirectly quoted in the magazine article flout all these obligations," Kendall wrote. "...Grand jury secrecy rules are aimed at preventing precisely this kind of leak-and-smear damage." Starr later says that since the comments were made in court proceedings, they were proper.

June 7, 1997 -- In court papers, Starr suggests that the president might urge Susan McDougal to testify.

June 16, 1997 -- Jim McDougal reports to prison to begin his three-year sentence. Ever theatrical, he predicts Hillary Clinton may join him there.

June 20, 1997 -- Starr adds four seasoned prosecutors to his team.

June 23, 1997 -- The Supreme Court without comment refuses to consider a White House appeal of a lower court's ruling that Whitewater notes taken by government attorneys for Hillary Clinton are not protected by attorney-client privilege and must be turned over to Starr.

June 25, 1997 -- The Washington Post reports that Starr's team has questioned Arkansas state troopers about possible affairs Clinton may have had while governor of Arkansas. Democrats cry foul while Starr explains that the interviews are standard prosecutorial procedure.



Yeah, he's innocent...

[FORD]

Originally posted by Warham
I'm not even talking about Monicagate. I'm talking about the shit he did before that.

So was I. And $tarr found him innocent of all that shit.

[Warham]

I'm not even talking about Monicagate. I'm talking about the shit he did before that.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Warham
I remember Clinton getting into a lot of trouble in Arkansas many years before Monica, so maybe he deserved it, eh?

After 8 years and $50 million in taxpayer money, Kenny $tarr couldn't find any proof of anything except the blowjob. So I would have to say no.