Gas Prices

[Ellyllions]

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/us/2007/05/22/chernoff.gas.gouging.cnn&wm=11

What do you think is going on?

[knuckleboner]

capitalism.

[Little Texan]

Re: Gas Prices

Originally posted by Ellyllions
http://www.cnn.com/video/player/play...ging.cnn&wm=11


What do you think is going on?

What's going on? I'll tell you what's going on, we're being fucked in the ass by the big oil companies, and Congress isn't doing a damn fucking thing about it because our Congressmen are being paid off by the oil lobbyists to do nothing about it! I guarantee you that is what's going on! Otherwise, Congress would have already stepped in and done something about these ridiculous gas prices, and who's to stop big oil from jacking up the prices to $5.00 a gallon, or $10.00 a gallon for that matter? They can pretty much charge what they want, because we have to have gas to power our vehicles, and there is nothing in place to stop these greedy cocksuckers from charging as much as they want to charge! They have us bent over a barrel, and they are going to continue assraping the American consumer as long as they can get away with it!

[Little Texan]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
capitalism.

You must have oil stocks.

[Little Texan]

Also, big oil is purposefully shutting down all these refineries in order to limit the supply of gasoline in the midst of high demand so that they can drive up the gas prices, and they are in no hurry to get the closed refineries back online because they are enjoying the insane profits they are reaping from them being shut down! Greedy cocksuckers!

[steve]

Peak Oil is coming.

Not that I am an alarmist, I don't think worldwide production is going to plummet...
however, it sure ain't going up...ever...and is going to slowly start going down till about 100 years from now there ain't much left.

In the grade scheme of things, that is pretty quick. But some folks seem to think production is going to fall off an imaginary cliff - which is not realistic.

If we had competent leadership in this country, we'd be planning for the worst like all good managers and leaders do and galvanizing this country off of the oil economy. If we had honest leadership, they'd be trying to convince everyone that there should be a $2/gallon federal gas tax...incremented, say, over 8 years (50 cents a year). This would be the responsible thing but we are all a bunch of whining BABIES.

But that is not ever going to happen. And it ain't Bush's fault, and frankly, I don't even think if Al Gore were President that he could convince folks to use less energy/oil. Until the price goes up even more, no one will believe we are actually running out of our energy life blood.

And by then, the JOLT in sticker shock will throw us into another great depression, whereas a slow, deliberate, incrental federal tax on gas (a BIG ONE) would get folks used to the idea that there AIN'T NO MORE OIL.



Sure, there is some gouging going on too, but we ALL (with very few exceptions) hog and waste so much damn energy that frankly, I think we all deserve it.

If you don't like high oil prices, sell your car and ride a bike.

[Jesus Christ]

Dad and I only made so many dinosaurs. Better ye should get thy fuel from a renewable resource.

[Ellyllions]

Lord have mercy, "sell your car and ride a bike"? Now that's spoken like a true big city person. Have you every been to the midwest, Steve?

I agree with everyone that it's capitalism at it's worst. I'm ok with capitalism when you're selling towels or shoes, but NOT when you're selling something that people must use.

I agree that the oil companies are wallowing in their profits because I know that they're not repairing refineries, or adding to them with the profits that they're gaining. They're reinvesting in their own stock to drive the stock price higher.

Our government is most certainly to blame for the fiasco it has become. Why are there not more ethanol pumps readily available for consumers? Because the oil/goverment (ALL OF GOVERMENT) work seamlessly with each other. Senators and Congress people would like to retire wealthy too, ya know.

Having said all of that though, I'm very glad that we haven't tapped the reserves yet because I think we're gonna need it within the next 5 years.

[Ellyllions]

..one more thing...

I'm beginning to wonder if the tax cuts were traded for higher oil profits....I'm really beginning to wonder.

[rocknrolldork]

$3.59 9/10 in Indy. Fak. It was $3.36 9/10 yesterday when I filled up.

It's fucking unfair to those of us that do our part. Carpooling, just not doing anything that takes gas. Turning off lights. Not wasting water. Recycling. It doesn't matter. The government is going to let them keep doing this. A huge part of me thinks this is the way the government is funding the war. Gas was $.05/gallon in Iraq in 2004. Now it is still under $1.00/gallon. WTF? Why don't they ship some of that shit to us. This shit is causing prices to spiral out of control on everything from a 2 liter of Coke to food to weed. It's senseless. Our government has seen this coming for years and has done nothing about it. Why? Several reasons........

The major automakers have contracts with the big oil companies. So GM, Chrysler, Ford, etc... never worried much about finding new power sources for their vehicles because the oil companies pay them not to.

If we had a new fuel or energy source all the gas stations and Kwik-E-Marts would either close or become financially stressed because there would be no need for the gas pump or so many gas stations.

The government has their hand deep in the pocket of big oil. Fuck both those cats.

[/rant]

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Little Texan
You must have oil stocks.

not really. and certainly outweighed by the fact that higher gas prices mean higher costs to most other sectors, so lower profits for them.

but in the end, it IS capitalism. companies DO get to try to screw the consumer over in capitalism. and the whole point is that people can then use other companies, products, etc.


initially, as gas prices were going up, did people change behavior? did they move to different modes of transportation, cut back on use? no. so OF COURSE the oil companies had no incentive to keep prices lower.

the fact is that there is a reasonable amount of mass transit in the U.S. (nothing compared to europe.) but in many cities, there's bus/subway options. additionally, there are many vehicle choices. the prius, and other high mileage cars (not all of which are hybrids) are available. and beginning to sell better. (capitalism at work.)


now, i like that aspect of capitalism, so i wouldn't support any restrictions on oil companies. you want to earn $1 trillion a month, exxon? more power to you. just know that eventually, people will start changing behavior to decrease their consumption.


however, i don't mind some government intervention, especially in the form of incentives.

let's say steve's crazy with his $2 per gallon tax (not that he is). but let's just suppose that the X administration proposes a ten-increase in the gas tax (not too bad, right elly?). that will generate something around $14 billion per year.

for every $1 billion, instead of limiting the hybrid tax incentive, we could extend it to a $5000 tax incentive for every hybrid purchase. even at the highest tax bracket, that still means about 500,000 hybrids. and that's not a bad incentive given that there are about 17 million total cars sold in the U.S. each year. take $8 billion and now we're talking potentially 25% of every car sold in the U.S. being a hybrid.

and how about a couple of billion a year to build/encourage biodiesel and E85 fueling stations? after just a few years, i'll have a network that will enable people to actually feel comfortable in using them.

and a couple of billion a year for R&D on new technology. plug-in hybrids are close. fuel cells are still farther off. but more research can't hurt.

and maybe even a couple of billion a year for simply offsetting the disportionate burden the increased gas tax has on lower income peoples.



in other words, no, i have no problem with us taking measures to discourage gasoline usage. i just also have no real problem with a private company trying to increase its profits.

[steve]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
Lord have mercy, "sell your car and ride a bike"? Now that's spoken like a true big city person. Have you every been to the midwest, Steve?

I agree with everyone that it's capitalism at it's worst. I'm ok with capitalism when you're selling towels or shoes, but NOT when you're selling something that people must use.

:p I admit, I am TOTALLY ignorant of the midwest! However, there is no way around it - as a planet we are going to have to change our energy consumption habits. City dwellers, country dwellers, everyone. We're going to have to re-build communities for walk-i-bility and mass transit use, we are going to have to re-engineer homes, and frankly, we are all going to have to get used to the idea (eventually) of sweating a little in the summer without as much AC. AS far as a time frame, I am not a fortune teller...but technology cannot "magically" solves this energy future...the era of just digging easy energy out of the ground is over.

And I although I WANT to agree with you on the "selling something people must use" argument, I cannot. (although I feel that way about health care).
The problem is, this is really just a small spike we have seen recently (and it is small - in the 70s gas prices were twice as high as they are now with inflation). It is just a sign of things to come - we are entering the age of Peak Oil. The oil companies know it, governments world wide know it, and frankly, there is enough information out there, most ordinary folks know it too. The problem is, folks are choosing to ignore it.

We people, oil companies, governments, etc) have a choice: we can either provide incentives to stop using up all the oil left (and the ONLY way to do that is through TAXES - CAFE standards and such do not work-they only punish the car companies and provide no incentive for the consumer to switch habits), and use it only for things for which there is no sustitute (such as commerical farming and jet travel)....

OR, we can use up what is left relatively fast (in a 100 years) and face a series of World Wars, economic chaos and catastrophy, and mass starvation in the wake of the ups and downs of the oil market in years to come.

I am cyical about the oil companies as well...frankly, I think they are artificially raising gas prices now because their economic models are forcasting progrssively less oil in years to come, and they are trying to guage for future market shocks...oh yeah, and make LOTS of $$ now.

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by steve
in the 70s gas prices were twice as high as they are now with inflation.

actually, adjusting for inflation, U.S. gas prices are at an all-time high now...



The Lundberg Survey, a bi-weekly gas price tracking service, put the price of a gallon of unleaded at $3.18 in its latest reading released late Sunday, up more than 11 cents from its reading of two weeks ago.

While gasoline had already been in record territory in current dollars, Trilby Lundberg, publisher of the survey, said this is the first time that her survey topped her 1981 record high when adjusted for inflation.

The high price of $1.35 in 1981 works out to $3.15 in current dollars, she said.


cnn.com

[steve]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
actually, adjusting for inflation, U.S. gas prices are at an all-time high now...

Who do you think you are, showering this thread with data and relevent information??? The nerve.

I'll still stand by my general argument though.

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by steve
Who do you think you are, showering this thread with data and relevent information??? The nerve.

fairfax vs. arlington. you know the deal. hatfields and mccoys.