Gas Prices

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Little Texan
Oh. another thing, I think the people you're talking about that don't change their habits and continue to buy gas guzzling SUV's and don't consider more fuel efficient alternatives are the rich and well-to-do folks. Believe me, if I could afford a fuel efficient vehicle right now I would be down at the car lot right now talking to a salesperson, but it's not an option for me right now. Just try seeing it from low income folks' perspective is all I'm asking.

dude, i'll totally assume that i completely agree with your original, non-deleted post.



but, i'm not trying to say that every single person made the choice to continue using the same amount of gas/ could've bought a hybrid, etc. i definitely understand the difficulties that individuals face.


i was saying that the country, as a whole, did not change its behavior/gas usage patterns at all over the last couple of years, despite rising gas prices.

so, we can either blame the oil companies for doing what private companies do in capitalism, try to maximize profits; or we can blame the average consumer who's behavior reinforces the oil company's decisions. (again, that's not blaming EVERY consumer, including the low income folk without many options.)


now, i'm NOT saying i like the current situation. i don't. i just think that our options are to a) do nothing (which i don't like); b) have the government regulate the oil industry much more (which i also don't like); or c) have the government use incentives to try and encourage different behavior. (which i do like.)

give tax breaks to car companies that sell increased levels of higher gas mileage vehicles (to help decrease the demand for gas.) give tax breaks to oil companies that ramp up refining production (to increase the supply of gas.) give tax breaks/direct R&D funding for companies looking at alternative fuels. give funding to subsidize individual citizens if they use mass transit. give tax breaks to citizens who purchase hybrid vehicles. hell, give SIGNIFICANT tax breaks to either car companies that sell cheap, easily affordable hybrids, or SIGNIFICANT tax breaks/credits to moderate to low income individuals who purchase hybrids.

many of these things we do now, but not to that great an extent. and are certainly things that could be done more heavily to actually start to have real effects.


so i'm definitely not trying to pimp for the oil companies. in reality, i'd actually prefer if we reduced our overall demand for gas and therefore reduced their profits. i just don't think that calling them evil bastards for maximizing profits in a capitalist economy and then heavily regulating them is the best strategy in the long run. i'd rather we didn't force, but instead incentivized behavoir changes.

[binnie]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
AT least Europe has a mass transit system available.


This country will have to resort back to horseback before we ever get where Europe is. (buses, trains, taxi) Not sayin we don't have it, you just cant get from town to town like EU can.

That's true, continental Europe has a great train system.

But the UK really doesn't....

[timmy pooterbut]

hello my question is for the female rockstar
is it polite for the guy to steal the gas on the first date these days i havent drove in 11 years and back then you had to steal it before you picked her up was being polite
back then it was$1.19 a gallon and i had two new nissans a hard body and a two wheel drive bass truck

with those high payments gas was rediculous
i left north carolina where it was$ 1.03 a gallon and we stole it periodically here too in other words im back in n.c.
and id hate to think what it is now in o.k.
also cigarettes are tipically higher in o.k. too
what should happen is this they should set an age limit for the purchase of gasoline
...like 18
that was theres more than likely an adult in the automobile
and cruising would be slowed up
some what
plus children would stay closer to home
just think of what better family interaction wed have when tv takes its first biig runs at you fri/sat night with mostly the whole house involved


that is all besides the gas wellers in oklahoma are raking a $3000
a month living off taking over old wells that have been capped and left to regain muster while the land breeds wildlife and cattle
and im only talking about 5 or six wells that one man can handle
self imployed paying a percentage only to the land and mineral owner
and the regional distributers being ok natural gas push gas appliances on the wealthy
so we as middle class try to keep pace with the jones
were all screwed if were letting them sell what belongs to the earth and as each drop ignites it is gone thats it
now my grand mother owns a well some damn where
that sends her a$26.00 dollar a month check but what shes most proudest of is the four feet of coal thats beneath her well and land where ever thats at you know oklahoma city and town names in the southwest just bounce off you when you hear them

ok im threw being a hard ass lets bring on the dancing girls

[FORD]

Fuck off troll.

[bastardog]

Originally posted by binnie
There are 4.55 litres in a gallon...

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here but...

there a gallon is equal to 3.8 liters......not 4.55, Binnie.
But you are rigth that UK prices are higher than US

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Lqskdiver
Mass transit won't happen in midwest countries where towns are so far apart and sporadic.

Knucks, right....it's all about supply and demand. We demand it, they are just trying to keep up the supply. Yes, they are making profit in the meantime. But they were always making billions in profit in past years. When a demand is increased, billing goes up. Simple business.

You want to know which President is getting rich off of this...Hugo Chavez. He nationalized the nations oil and now Citgo is one of the leading refineries in the world. Bigger than ExxonMobile.

So we can bitch and moan about how the white house is behind all this and why EVERYONE knew gas would go up in the summer. The fact is WE are the cause of this increase. Everytime we flip on a swiitch, get in our car, or log on the internet we cause this increase in demand.

With the hot summer months coming up and the amount of traveling that is usually done, expect these prices to increase. Don't like it...then we can opt to decrease demand. How? Go back to horse and carriage, candles for lighting , woodstoves for cooking, and sheeps wool for clothing. The environmentalist would love that.

But wouldn't we be exploiting other resources than?

Chavez? LOL Yeah, he's to blame!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Big Train
Well if we are fucked and can't do anything about it, might as well buy some Chevron stock and get some of it back!!

Actually, the oil companies have been buying up their own stock, especially Exxon-Mobil. I know one douche bag that has gotten rich, while doing nothing with his life, from selling papi's stock!

[ace diamond]

Originally posted by steve
:p I admit, I am TOTALLY ignorant of the midwest! However, there is no way around it - as a planet we are going to have to change our energy consumption habits. City dwellers, country dwellers, everyone. We're going to have to re-build communities for walk-i-bility and mass transit use, we are going to have to re-engineer homes, and frankly, we are all going to have to get used to the idea (eventually) of sweating a little in the summer without as much AC. AS far as a time frame, I am not a fortune teller...but technology cannot "magically" solves this energy future...the era of just digging easy energy out of the ground is over.

And I although I WANT to agree with you on the "selling something people must use" argument, I cannot. (although I feel that way about health care).
The problem is, this is really just a small spike we have seen recently (and it is small - in the 70s gas prices were twice as high as they are now with inflation). It is just a sign of things to come - we are entering the age of Peak Oil. The oil companies know it, governments world wide know it, and frankly, there is enough information out there, most ordinary folks know it too. The problem is, folks are choosing to ignore it.

We people, oil companies, governments, etc) have a choice: we can either provide incentives to stop using up all the oil left (and the ONLY way to do that is through TAXES - CAFE standards and such do not work-they only punish the car companies and provide no incentive for the consumer to switch habits), and use it only for things for which there is no sustitute (such as commerical farming and jet travel)....

OR, we can use up what is left relatively fast (in a 100 years) and face a series of World Wars, economic chaos and catastrophy, and mass starvation in the wake of the ups and downs of the oil market in years to come.

I am cyical about the oil companies as well...frankly, I think they are artificially raising gas prices now because their economic models are forcasting progrssively less oil in years to come, and they are trying to guage for future market shocks...oh yeah, and make LOTS of $$ now.

well.....my mother lives in the middle of bloody nowhere 7,000 ft above sea level in Arizona. she gets by just fine without electricity...per-se.

my mother has been living "off the grid" for about 6 or 7 years now.

you see......the power company wanted a ridiculous amount of money to run power lines out to her 8 acre property. several miles of poles and cable would be required.......not to mention the fact of man-power and the she lives on a reservation. she basically told them"fuck that shit and fuck you. shove it up your everloving asshole!"

she bought solar panels,12 car batteries(to store the power), 2 big water tanks,a windmill, and a diesel generator. the local well is really cheap. mother is very good at conserving what resources she has. Arizona is a red state. My mother thumbs her nose at big oil. the generator only gets used when she is doing laundry or when
the weather is really bad, like monsoons or snow storms.

the only utility mom has that she has to pay for is the phone, and that almost never gets used.
as for food.....she spends very little on groceries. mother prefers,much as i do,to hunt and fish for our own food. bread is easy to make. when i was little,mother taught me how to cook,sew,make my own clothes and moccasins,arrows,spears,rope,nets for fishing,how to make a camp,blankets,bedding. she taught me how to hunt and fish,track,set traps,skinning and gutting,essentially everything i need to know in order to survive....about what animals to eat or not,which to trust and keep......about plants and medicine.........which are poison and what is ok to eat, as well as which plants have medicinal properties.about how to find water in a barren desert.....by eating cacti. about how to make fire,how to make blades for cutting and for carving by using different types of rocks. most importantly, she taught me to be a decent human being.
a lot of people could learn some useful lessons from my dear mother.

and no,i do not live at home. i have not lived at home since january 19th,1985-i was 7years,7months,and 17days. i live in southern california. i have been here all my life. i have lived alone and suvived on my own just fine for the last 22+ years.
life is good.

[ace diamond]

and i do still use a lot of that today. i even still do my laundry by hand.

[FORD]

Arizona's a great state for doing something like that. You can go solar, because the sun shines 360 days a year. And you don't need heat - unless your a wuss or old - my grandmother used to grab a sweater any time it was under 80 degrees.

As far as the well goes, that might be more problematic in some parts of AZ than others. You might have to drill DEEP to even hit a water table.

What part of the state does your mom live in?

[ace diamond]

i live in the boonies in so cal and i still do not drive. i walk,ride my bike,take the bus.......or ride a horse. i refuse to drive or have a part in car crazy culture of so cal.

[ace diamond]

Originally posted by FORD
Arizona's a great state for doing something like that. You can go solar, because the sun shines 360 days a year. And you don't need heat - unless your a wuss or old - my grandmother used to grab a sweater any time it was under 80 degrees.

As far as the well goes, that might be more problematic in some parts of AZ than others. You might have to drill DEEP to even hit a water table.

What part of the state does your mom live in?

white mountains...north east arizona. apache county.

[ace diamond]

look, my point is that folks can save themselves a ton of money by making natural resources work for them to generate power as they
are renewable sources of clean energy.

sun, wind, and rain. at the very least you can build a still and make moonshine and run your generator on that.......helluva lot cheaper that using fossil fuel.

for lighting......candles are cheap and reusable.

after the candle wax is all used up,simply take all the wax,put it in a pot,
heat the sucker up and melt the wax back into a liquid form. then you
aquire a spindle of twine cord, measure the legnth as so one end touches the bottom of a soup can or a glass or and similar solid container.the other end should come at least 6 inches above the rim.
you then set the twine cord aside, and take the now hot and melted wax,pour it into the container approx.2/3 full.take the twine cord,set it in until it touches the bottom,then you should still have 6 inches to spare....set the cord over the side and secure it with rubber band.

let the whole thing cool until all the wax has solidified.

there, a cheap and renewable source of light that is re-usable.

this will save on your light bill.

:D :p :D